Unofficial Preview Changes v Sydney Swans (Rd 7)

[lionsrules]

I'd like to see hodge hug franklin at the boundary line half way through the last quarter while we are up by 50 points

 

[Clarkythelion]

Yeah I've watched it a couple of times, simply because you could sense the relief in his demeanor which in a high stress role is always refreshing to see.

I don't actually disagree with any of what you said, my point is more that I think someone else needs to be given the opportunity to play the same role for the team instead. Mcstay has played too many games now to be making some of the mistakes he makes, and given his talent is obvious it has to be all in his head.

At some point you just have to say we've given it a genuinely good go, but it's not working.

Anyway, I've said my piece now, others disagree and all is well so I shall leave it at that.

I agree with you. Also you have some kids in the reserves that have to know they still have a future at the club that there is opening in the top team not only for the little fellas but we have a few potential keys that can be tried.

 

[royboys4eva]

RE Dan McStay:

- Equal 15th in the league for contested marks (3rd at the club);
- Equal 18th in the league for marks on the lead (3rd at the club); and
- Equal 23rd for marks inside 50 (3rd at the club).

Whilst I'd agree it would be nice to see him do more, I'd say as far as key forward statistical indicators go, he's doing just fine. It's just what he does wrong is so noticeable.

I would suggest those stats are damming on him.3rd for marks on the lead at the club! He is our full forward. He should be either first or second to Hipwood. He was better at leading for the ball on the weekend around the wing but when he is deep forward he stands flat footed and either wants to take a contested mark or he wants a cheap goal over the top. Ask yourself how many times have you seen McStay take a mark on the lead bursting out of the goal square?

I saw Lachie Neale burst out of the centre look up for someone to kick to on the lead. Who did he find ? Stef Martin. Who in turn gave it back to Neale for a great running goal.

Would love someone like Lynch or Brown to get to training a few times a month and train Mcstay on leading patterns from the goal square.

The most frustrating thing is if McStay lead for the ball more often out of the goal square he would draw away defenders and often leave the Big O one out with his opponent. Too many times this year McStay, Oscar and Hipwood have all jumped for the same ball.

 

[jackess]

I would suggest those stats are damming on him.3rd for marks on the lead at the club! He is our full forward. He should be either first or second to Hipwood. He was better at leading for the ball on the weekend around the wing but when he is deep forward he stands flat footed and either wants to take a contested mark or he wants a cheap goal over the top. Ask yourself how many times have you seen McStay take a mark on the lead bursting out of the goal square?

I saw Lachie Neale burst out of the centre look up for someone to kick to on the lead. Who did he find ? Stef Martin. Who in turn gave it back to Neale for a great running goal.

Would love someone like Lynch or Brown to get to training a few times a month and train Mcstay on leading patterns from the goal square.

The most frustrating thing is if McStay lead for the ball more often out of the goal square he would draw away defenders and often leave the Big O one out with his opponent. Too many times this year McStay, Oscar and Hipwood have all jumped for the same ball.

What’s with the obsession with leading out of the goal square?

 

[royboys4eva]

What’s with the obsession with leading out of the goal square?

Works well for Kennedy, Hawkins - seemed to work ok for Ablett, Dunstall and Lockett. Alastair Lynch would rag doll McStay in a marking contest yet he was on the lead all the time. If you don't understand why a full forward should be leading from the goal square you shouldn't be in this discussion.

 

[jackess]

Works well for Kennedy, Hawkins - seemed to work ok for Ablett, Dunstall and Lockett. Alastair Lynch would rag doll McStay in a marking contest yet he was on the lead all the time. If you don't understand why a full forward should be leading from the goal square you shouldn't be in this discussion.

Have you watched AFL in the last 10 years? McStay will never be Josh Kennedy.

 

[royboys4eva]

What’s with the obsession with leading out of the goal square?

You are so quick bag any player other than McStay. You defend him on merit now. I keep saying I hope he proves me wrong and he does have talent but at some stage you have to say its not working. He has been in the system for six years now. Are we still going to be having this conversation in two years?

 

[royboys4eva]

Have you watched AFL in the last 10 years? McStay will never be Josh Kennedy.

Of course he won't. He cant do a basic thing like lead for the ball from the goal square. Kennedy has football smarts as well as supreme talent.

 

[jackess]

Of course he won't. He cant do a basic thing like lead for the ball from the goal square. Kennedy has football smarts as well as supreme talent.

And despite that he’s in a forwardline that’s kicking a higher score this year.

We all know that he’s a poor (putting it lightly) mark and kick but it should be clear from Fagans presser and his continued selection that he’s doing other things to help the forwardline function and we’re the third highest scoring team in the league so it must be working.

And it would clearly help the team if he improves his marking and goal kicking but it’s his role in the senior team until someone in the reserves proves to the coaches they can do it better.

 

[dlanod]

Works well for Kennedy, Hawkins - seemed to work ok for Ablett, Dunstall and Lockett. Alastair Lynch would rag doll McStay in a marking contest yet he was on the lead all the time. If you don't understand why a full forward should be leading from the goal square you shouldn't be in this discussion.

Kennedy and Hawkins don't generally lead from the goal square anyway. Kennedy plays all over the field and creates separation with multiple leads and double backs, very similar to how Brown used to play. Hawkins generally leads from a traditional CHF position. The closest examples I can think to a traditional goal square-style forward these days are Tom Lynch at Richmond this year (though he roams more with Riewoldt out) and Patton at GWS. Brown plays similar but more like Hawkins, further out from goal.

Most teams these days are playing with an empty goal square because it enables them to have shots from further out rather than making it easier for the opposition to spoil or intercept shots that fall just short when there's a fast break. When ball movement is slower the defense usually drops into a zone which clogs up all the leading lanes anyway, leading to the contested four to six person marking contest.

 

[LongLion]

Kennedy and Hawkins don't generally lead from the goal square anyway. Kennedy plays all over the field and creates separation with multiple leads and double backs, very similar to how Brown used to play. Hawkins generally leads from a traditional CHF position. The closest examples I can think to a traditional goal square-style forward these days are Tom Lynch at Richmond this year (though he roams more with Riewoldt out) and Patton at GWS. Brown plays similar but more like Hawkins, further out from goal.

Most teams these days are playing with an empty goal square because it enables them to have shots from further out rather than making it easier for the opposition to spoil or intercept shots that fall just short when there's a fast break. When ball movement is slower the defense usually drops into a zone which clogs up all the leading lanes anyway, leading to the contested four to six person marking contest.

We looked to be playing Rayner one out in the square a few times on Saturday

 

[dlanod]

We looked to be playing Rayner one out in the square a few times on Saturday

We've also played Cameron out of there, and there's a couple of other teams that play smaller targets because they're more agile but still able to jump enough to crash packs. It opens up more space - larger players have a larger turning circle so are really only going to be marking on a lead. Someone like Cameron or Rayner opens up the ability to kick into space more because they can outspeed or outagile their opposition when the ball is on the ground.

 

[Tom14]

McStay is a role player, who has shown glimpses of being more than that but not consistently. That's why he is so frustrating to some and also why I continue to back him though the weekend was not a great performance.

Until the coaching staff is convinced someone can do his role of halving aerial contests he'll stay in the team - not sure that is Wooler's game and I'm not sure he has the physique to compete in the air in the Seniors just yet. Still think Marcus Adams is the biggest threat to McStay's place as he will be able to perform that role and perhaps offer more.

 

[bungalow_bill]

McStay is a massive unit, not sure there is anyone at present who could do his job on the gorilla intercept defenders. If he can just fix his goal kicking no one will be asking the question. Well one or two might.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I wonder how many games McStay will get the way he is playing.
Surely a forward that can lead out to uncontested positions and can look like kicking a goal will get the nod.
Doesn't have to be as big as Mcstay imo , more mobile would do as good job at contesting.
He does a role for us ,but can't take a shot on goal without over stressing himself , that's what I'm thinking or maybe he is just shit at set shots period, but I don't think so he looks like he is been chased by a white pointer.
His confidence is so low regarding goal kicking he hand balls it off .
Time is ticking imo.
Needs to change his kicking routine or something, shake his hands and shake out the fear , take a couple of deep breaths and stair the crowd in the face .
just thinking , maybe left field , and this has been discussed before. Timing seems to be right at this point.
Walker doing his job well and Andrews doing well , but out of the two I would say Walker is looking more solid at present
If Hodge is playing and Andrews is back I would be tempted to give McStay a refresher course in the 2's and play Andrews up forward .
Pretty happy for Walker to keep the back role. Kind of depends if Hodge is rested .
No other changes.

 

[BRAB]

McStay needs to do what the ROY BOYS did back in the old days and down a six pack, run out there, punch out the young fullback and kick 10 snags from the goal square.

Millennials are ruining our great game. If I see one more upstart kick the ball backwards instead of bombing it forward I'm going to lose my shit.

 

[TheHairyGamer]

We have a stretch of winnable games coming up. I would be very tempted to give Andrews another week to be certain. I know a lot of people have been down on McStay and he does need to convert more shots on goal, however he is a big body who is clearly being tasked with competing and bringing the ball to ground. Plus his pressure has been pretty good every week. I don't think we have another forward in the 2s who can do that. They are all a bit young and don't have the muscle or strength he does just yet.

No change this week for mine, only maybe is Andrews in for either Lester or Hodge (if he needs a rest)

 

[Ironmonger]

I wonder how many games McStay will get the way he is playing.
Surely a forward that can lead out to uncontested positions and can look like kicking a goal will get the nod.
Doesn't have to be as big as Mcstay imo , more mobile would do as good job at contesting.
He does a role for us ,but can't take a shot on goal without over stressing himself , that's what I'm thinking or maybe he is just shit at set shots period, but I don't think so he looks like he is been chased by a white pointer.
His confidence is so low regarding goal kicking he hand balls it off .
Time is ticking imo.
Needs to change his kicking routine or something, shake his hands and shake out the fear , take a couple of deep breaths and stair the crowd in the face .
just thinking , maybe left field , and this has been discussed before. Timing seems to be right at this point.
Walker doing his job well and Andrews doing well , but out of the two I would say Walker is looking more solid at present
If Hodge is playing and Andrews is back I would be tempted to give McStay a refresher course in the 2's and play Andrews up forward .
Pretty happy for Walker to keep the back role. Kind of depends if Hodge is rested .
No other changes.

I'm not quite as down on McStay as some others, but I think there's a real chance this happens all the same. Particularly with Walker in such good form and Adams potentially close to playing.

 

[lioninthesand]

Swans are on their knees right now. Fast paced, attacking footy is not their strong point which appears to be what troubles us most, so not overly worried about them attacking us on the score board or exposing us down the middle. I also think there is a chance they make so big changes this week, like bring in 4 more kids than they are already playing, if you listened to Longmire, I think he hinted that it might be time to blood some players. we should really win and win well. I think Buddy plays.

No changes for me, if Andrews gets back which looks unlikely he comes in for Lester. McStay is going nowhere so there's no point hypothesizing about that.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Really looking forward for this game .
Never seen us win in my whole time as a true supporter against the silver spoons .
Not even on tv.
First time we are favorites.
It's time we get some payback.
Go Qld.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I wonder how many games McStay will get the way he is playing.
Surely a forward that can lead out to uncontested positions and can look like kicking a goal will get the nod.
Doesn't have to be as big as Mcstay imo , more mobile would do as good job at contesting.
He does a role for us ,but can't take a shot on goal without over stressing himself , that's what I'm thinking or maybe he is just shit at set shots period, but I don't think so he looks like he is been chased by a white pointer.
His confidence is so low regarding goal kicking he hand balls it off .
Time is ticking imo.
Needs to change his kicking routine or something, shake his hands and shake out the fear , take a couple of deep breaths and stair the crowd in the face .
just thinking , maybe left field , and this has been discussed before. Timing seems to be right at this point.
Walker doing his job well and Andrews doing well , but out of the two I would say Walker is looking more solid at present
If Hodge is playing and Andrews is back I would be tempted to give McStay a refresher course in the 2's and play Andrews up forward .
Pretty happy for Walker to keep the back role. Kind of depends if Hodge is rested .
No other changes.

Andrews is the only other player who could do McStays role but he's too important to the back line

 

[mpal6]

Get the feeling Wooler will take a stranglehold on a spot whenever he gets his debut. Looks strong in NEAFL and consistent with his performances too.

 

[davemc_lions]

As others have said when Adams gets his body right.. We have Wooler/Adams after a spot.
Walker/Andrews settled now so you think Big O or McStay will start getting worried.
Big O rucks 1/3 of the game.
Adams a bigger unit then McStay as well.

 

[POBT]

Adams a bigger unit then McStay as well.

The accuracy of the "official" stats on height/weight are dubious but....

Adams - 192cm; 93kg
McStay - 195cm; 100kg

Adams is huge but McStay is a very big unit these days.

 

[Tom14]

Can scratch off any Adams talk for 2 months - per Fish he's going in for an arthroscope.