Analysis Collingwood Almanac 2015

[76woodenspooners]

The Beams deal worked out well for us last year. Not just because the replacements we received were very good, but we were able to trade one player for three - preventing us from needing to dip too deeply into the draft.

For example - if we hadn't gotten Crisp as part of that deal, we would have needed to pick up a player in the 60's of the draft instead.

Some people don't think Patrick Karnezis was a good footballer, but what are our chances of picking up a player in the 4th round of the draft who is better?

2014

Out.                    In.
Seniors
Heritier Lumumba <->       Travis Varcoe
Dayne Beams      <->       Pick 5, Jordan DeGoey
Nick Maxwell      |>       Pick 25, Levi Greenwood
Quinten Lynch.    |>       Jonathan Crisp
Marty Clarke               Pick 9, Darcy Moore
Luke Ball                  Pick 30, Braydan Maynard
Tony Armstrong             Pick 48, Matthew Goodyear

Rookies
Ben Hudson                 Michael Mantiet
Kyle Martin                Brenden Abbott
Peter Yagmoor              Tony Armstrong
Caolan Mooney              Mason Cox

2015

Out.                       In.
Seniors
Clinton Young              Frost
Sam Dwyer                  Treloar? For?
Josh Thomas                Pick?
Lachlan Keeffe             Pick?
Patrick Karnezis           Pick?

Rookies
Armstrong                  Thomas?
Mantiet                    Keeffe?
Frost                      Rookie pick?

 

[Bard]

The Beams deal worked out well for us last year. Not just because the replacements we received were very good,but we were able to trade one player for three - preventing us from needing to dip too deeply into the draft.

For example - if we hadn't gotten Crisp as part of that deal, we would have needed to pick up a player in the 60's of the draft instead.

Some people don't think Patrick Karnezis was a good footballer, but what are our chances of picking up a player in the 4th round of the draft who is better?

2014

Out.                    In.
Seniors
Heritier Lumumba <->       Travis Varcoe
Dayne Beams      <->       Pick 5, Jordan DeGoey
Nick Maxwell       |>      Pick 25, Levi Greenwood
Quinten Lynch.    |>       Jonathan Crisp
Marty Clarke               Pick 9, Darcy Moore
Luke Ball                      Pick 30, Braydan Maynard
Tony Armstrong            Pick 48, Matthew Goodyear

[b]Rookies[/b]
Ben Hudson                 Michael Mantiet
Kyle Martin                  Brenden Abbott
Peter Yagmoor             Tony Armstrong
Caolan Mooney            Mason Cox

2015

[b]Out.                    In.
Seniors[/b]
Clinton Young           Frost
Sam Dwyer              Treloar? For?
Josh Thomas            Pick?
Lachlan Keeffe         Pick?
Patrick Karnezis       Pick?

[b]Rookie[/b]
Armstrong                Thomas?
Mantiet                    Keeffe?
Frost

Langdon, Marsh, our onslaught of rookie success, it's possible. I'm not a fan of Karnezis but it's not like we delisted him and I never thought we should either. At the end of the day he walked away from the club and that's that... From all reports we had a contract in front of him which he chose to ignore.

 

[Prochard123]

Hey KM,
If we do give 2015 first rounder and 2016 second rounder for Treloar
Do you see the trade as a massive bargain?
Also, how do you we will get Aish?
What are the chances of Freeman staying? How important is he to our playing group and future?
What are your expectations of Scharenberg next season?
How much upside do you see in Seedsman? Is Seedsman and our second rounder likely to be enough for Aish?

Sorry for asking this many questions :/

 

[Knightmare]

We often discuss positions and how to classify players. Below is the coaches AA team using "best practice" structure according to all opposition club analysts:

BACKS
Tall/medium defender: Easton Wood (WB)
Tall defender: Alex Rance (Rich)
Small defender: Zach Tuohy (Carl)
Medium defender: Bob Murphy (WB)
Tall defender: Cale Hooker (Ess)
Medium defender: Jarrad McVeigh (Syd)

MIDFIELD
Ruck: Todd Goldstein (NM)
Inside/outside midfielder: Dan Hannebery (Syd)
Inside midfielders: Nat Fyfe (Fre), Josh Kennedy (Syd), Matt Priddis (WC)
Inside/outside midfielder: Andrew Gaff (WC)

FORWARDS
Inside/outside midfielder: Patrick Dangerfield (Adel)
Key forward: Jake Stringer (WB)
High half-forward: Brett Deledio (Rich)
Small forward: Chad Wingard (PA)
Key forward: Josh Kennedy (WC)
Tall/medium forward: Jack Gunston (Haw)

INTERCHANGE
Inside midfielder: David Mundy (Fre)
Inside/outside midfielder: Scott Pendlebury (Coll, capt)
Inside/outside midfielder: Bernie Vince (Melb)
Ruckman: Nic Naitanui (WC)


My Collingwood Version (with depth players in brackets):

BACKS
Tall/medium defender: Tyson Goldsack (Adam Oxley)
Tall defender: Nathan Brown (Jonothan Marsh)
Small defender: Marley Williams (Ben Sinclair, Jackson Ramsay)
Medium defender: Matthew Scharenburg (Brayden Maynard)
Tall defender: Jack Frost
Medium defender: Alan Toovey (Tom Langdon)

MIDFIELD
Ruck: Brodie Grundy
Inside/outside midfielder: Scott Pendlebury
Inside midfielders: Levi Greenwood, Taylor Adams, Jack Crisp
Inside/outside midfielder: Steele Sidebottom

FORWARDS
Inside/outside midfielder: Dane Swan
Key forward: Travis Cloke (Corey Gault)
High half-forward: Jamie Elliot
Small forward: Alex Fasolo (Jarryd Blair, Ben Kennedy)
Key forward: Ben Reid (Jesse White)
Tall/medium forward: Darcy Moore (Brenden Abbott)

INTERCHANGE
Inside midfielder: Jordan De Goey (Brent Macaffer)
Inside/outside midfielder: Travis Varcoe (Paul Seedsman)
Inside/outside midfielder: Tim Broomhead (Nathan Freeman, Matthew Goodyear)
Ruckman: Jarrod Witts (Mason Cox)

I have left out the delisting and may have missed one or two like Karnezis (meh).

There is a lot of midfielders in these setups and we are pretty well placed especially if we can add a Treloar into the mix.

High half-forward is a specialist position it seems and Elliot is well suited here as well as say Dane Swan if Treloar moves in to the midfield mix.

I am reasonably concerned by the lack of key defender and forward depth. However the above is a 36 man squad so we I expect we will add something in the offseason that will at least provide some depth and cover in these areas.

I am aware Darcy Moore as a Tall/Medium forward is not a perfect fit, but we simply do not have that sort of player other than say Goldsack and potentially PM Abbott (should have more free time next year). We could run with say Moore as a key forward, Reid back and Abbott as the medium/tall forward.

Probably as good of an attempt as any of the Collingwood list based on that structure.

It is an interesting concept to go through. There is some interpretation of best positions involved.

Is Reid a key forward or key defender? Should Broomhead become a midfielder or forward? Swan midfield or forward? Are Marsh or Scharenberg key defenders or medium defenders at AFL level? Then you have all those who can play ruck and whether they are a pure ruck, relief ruck, more a forward. And so on with so many other players.

And I imagine the more posters who attempt a positional chart, the more variations you will find.

The Beams deal worked out well for us last year. Not just because the replacements we received were very good,but we were able to trade one player for three - preventing us from needing to dip too deeply into the draft.

For example - if we hadn't gotten Crisp as part of that deal, we would have needed to pick up a player in the 60's of the draft instead.

Some people don't think Patrick Karnezis was a good footballer, but what are our chances of picking up a player in the 4th round of the draft who is better?

2014

Out.                    In.
Seniors
Heritier Lumumba <->       Travis Varcoe
Dayne Beams      <->       Pick 5, Jordan DeGoey
Nick Maxwell       |>      Pick 25, Levi Greenwood
Quinten Lynch.    |>       Jonathan Crisp
Marty Clarke               Pick 9, Darcy Moore
Luke Ball                      Pick 30, Braydan Maynard
Tony Armstrong            Pick 48, Matthew Goodyear

[b]Rookies[/b]
Ben Hudson                 Michael Mantiet
Kyle Martin                  Brenden Abbott
Peter Yagmoor             Tony Armstrong
Caolan Mooney            Mason Cox

2015

[b]Out.                    In.
Seniors[/b]
Clinton Young           Frost
Sam Dwyer              Treloar? For?
Josh Thomas            Pick?
Lachlan Keeffe         Pick?
Patrick Karnezis       Pick?

[b]Rookie[/b]
Armstrong                Thomas?
Mantiet                    Keeffe?
Frost

Karnezis walking is an interesting outcome and probably we knew it was coming and as such probably delisted a few less than we otherwise may have.

And it's an interesting view towards our list regarding the three pieces for one.

To address your question regarding a pick in the fourth round. I expect we will find another way to fill list positions rather than use so many picks as we have expressed a dislike for this years draft and I'd imagine the lack of depth in this draft. It's possible at that stage this year to find someone, but it will take excellent talent identification and probably someone high on our draft order sliding. Or we may go the lower risk route and add a mature ager.

I anticipate we upgrade Frost to the senior list firstly to bring up the numbers. Then we can go with a senior list of 38 instead of the 39 we had this season.

Then the eventual list numbers come down to our trade and free agency moves.

More so than every year it seems we're in talks for many players. Treloar is the obvious one. Aish. Kreuzer (though interest seems to have diminished). Today I'm hearing Howe we will be enquiring about.

I imagine we will be well aware and planning very precisely around our planned numbers with the intent to take no more than 2-3 new talents in the draft in addition to the assumed Frost upgrade.
The club probably would target some delisted free agents to ensure that is the case if required - though with our poor strike rate over with unwanted talent I'd personally much rather we go to the draft.

In terms of speculation. There are so many ways different trades may go that it's hard to speculate in each deal exactly how many pieces we may move and as a result after each trade where our list numbers will be.

For Treloar it's possible it's our first round pick this year and next year or our first round pick this year and a young player. Or a third party may get involved and an entirely different number go in/out.
Same story with Aish.
And same story with anyone else we may target.


As for the Beams trade.
I agree with you that we have (to my surprise) done well with the Beams trade (and probably won that trade even given how great De Goey looks as someone with the opportunity to be as good as Beams as well as the strong additions of Greenwood and Crisp, both of whom are playing strong footy).

In terms of three for one trades. There are a couple of ways to look at it.
Some will think from the standpoint of three guys who can play is better than one.
The other view is that star power and superiority of top end talent wins.

Both methods have their uses. From a Collingwood standpoint though where possible I would go the star power route. In our specific situation we relatively speaking have a superior ability to identify talent relative to our rivals, so in more drafts than not if we complete two or three for one trades we will relatively be more likely than our rivals to find something with these talents. And given our late and rookie draft success rates that plays a part in making that a viable approach.
Additionally in my view anyway star power does more towards winning games at AFL level, whereas depth relatively speaking does more to helping your VFL side because then you through weight of good numbers have more good players forced into the 2s.

The reason I am of the view that star power wins is star power is so hard and rare to find. Whereas role players or players who would not be considered best 10 on list talents are relatively easier to identify and acquire through any methods be it the draft, free agency or trading.

--
The other side of trading and the side of trading this season that we will be exploring is pick for player trades with the Treloar/Aish and various other names who will surely come up.

Hawthorn more years than not recently have traded their first round selections in order to add high level talents and when you really look over the years at all the trades of players for picks. More often than not it's the team particularly when it's a team getting an established high level player that will win the trade with picks consistently on the trade table overvalued and put plainly a false sense of hope and a marketing tool to get fans along to games as a false hope they can try to sell fans on.
Sydney and Richmond also seem to have significantly more success as with Hawthorn through trading than through the draft with all three teams historically I'd regard as poor draft day performers which only further emphasises how great they have been at trading for talent and how valuable talent acquired through trading can prove to be.

This year as with every year will make for further interesting learning.

 

[Knightmare]

Hey KM,
If we do give 2015 first rounder and 2016 second rounder for Treloar
Do you see the trade as a massive bargain?
Also, how do you we will get Aish?
What are the chances of Freeman staying? How important is he to our playing group and future?
What are your expectations of Scharenberg next season?
How much upside do you see in Seedsman? Is Seedsman and our second rounder likely to be enough for Aish?

Sorry for asking this many questions :/

I'd consider Treloar for our 2015 and 2016 first round picks to be good, so if that 2016 selection is only a second round selection than we certainly will have done very well. Picks are a lottery. A lottery we seem to perform better than most in, but it's hit and miss. So I'd take the high level performer to the picks, particularly with how well Treloar suits our list build from an age demographic perspective.

What it takes to gain Aish will be interesting. There will be lots of interested clubs so he would need to nominate Collingwood to have a strong chance of getting to us. Our second round selection and let's say Seedsman is probably a best case scenario, or maybe our second round selection and Oxley (though I doubt we trade Oxley). What more we can add assuming a Treloar trade involving our first round pick happens remains to be seen.
Or maybe Carlton work into a three way trade involving Bell to Brisbane.
Those would most likely be the types of trades we would be looking to execute.
In terms of what probably should be given up for Aish. Our second round pick and probably Oxley might be more what Brisbane would want.

Freeman is thought based on media rumours to be 50/50. It's all down to the contract and whether he can get the money he wants. In terms of importance, it's unclear as he isn't a certain best 22 standard player. But losing him now given he hasn't played we wouldn't be getting what I'd anticipate to be a fair return, so it's probably best we work out a deal with him. Freeman's relative importance is because through the midfield he offers some different things - pace/endurance as well as efficient ball use and contested ball winning. We're mostly slowing and lesser skilled through the midfield so Freeman offers a different edge to our team.

Scharenberg I anticipate establishes himself as a best 22 player next season down back. He doesn't have to star. But his numbers and role probably will be something not unlike Langdon in his first year, with Scharenberg offering more consistent footskills and a better defensive game than Langdon by comparison which will make him a useful well rounded component down back who can intercept and rebound capably, use it well and also stop his man and offer some versatility as someone who can play medium/tall.

Seedsman has substantial upside as a footballer and if he reduces the gaps between his best and worst games he can become exceptional. So in an ideal world I'd like for him to stay because when he is good, he is exceptional and his run and carry is an element we lack. In saying that he won't nearly be enough to get Aish though. Seedsman is older and was late draft pick who still at AFL level lacks consistency v a top 10 pick who just had an off year after a strong first season. So much more will be required to get that conversation started with Brisbane for Aish.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Probably as good of an attempt as any of the Collingwood list based on that structure.

It is an interesting concept to go through. There is some interpretation of best positions involved.

Is Reid a key forward or key defender? Should Broomhead become a midfielder or forward? Swan midfield or forward? Are Marsh or Scharenberg key defenders or medium defenders at AFL level? Then you have all those who can play ruck and whether they are a pure ruck, relief ruck, more a forward. And so on with so many other players.

And I imagine the more posters who attempt a positional chart, the more variations you will find.

It does make you look at the team and needs slightly differently.

Reid can obviously play at either end. However I have him forward simply because our other key forwards are inadequate or not in my eyes able to hold down the position for a whole year, whereas we have some very adequate defenders. Moore is rapidly approaching being able to hold a key post. However, he is not yet matured his body and we can't forget he is just one year in, its not reasonable to expect that he can hold down a key post and deliver what we expect. So Moore as that third tall mobile forward looks right to me for now.

Scharenburg is not a key defender, I cannot see him taking the big bodied opposition match ups ever. Number one its a complete under utilisation of his skill set, and two he will get completely out sized. I think he can probably take that third tall position (currently I have Goldy there) where he can look to use his ball reading skills and be a little like Easton Wood.

Marsh I think given our list profile has to become he next in line key defender, whether he like it or not as there is a big gaping nothing after him.

The midfielders are quite interchangeable, but there was a lot more emphasis on pure inside mids than I expected. I think a lot of our recruits in Adams, Greenwood, & Crisp have really helped in this regard and it allows Pendles, Swan, Sidey and lets hope Treloar play more outside.

Interestingly they listed a ruck on the bench. Now this year no one played with a ruck on the bench. If two were named one played forward - like we did poorly for most of the year. However perhaps they are looking ahead to next year, with the sub going (which most ppl called the death of two rucks) does the second ruck return to the bench or do you just go for more run? This would suit us if two rucks become the best setup with one off the bench. It allows you to play a proper forward line structure which I have noticed that a ruck pretending to be a forward can ruin. Sure the second ruck can float forward now and again to change things up but in general I much prefer to see 2 real key forwards and a leading third, rather than an awkward ruck wobbling around.

 

[TradeDraft]

Well with Freeman and Seedsman being Traded.

So we could have 2 Extra 2nd Rounders to go to the Draft with.

So Knightmare what players would there be in the 2nd Round that could be Good Picks?

 

[Knightmare]

Well with Freeman and Seedsman being Traded.

So we could have 2 Extra 2nd Rounders to go to the Draft with.

So Knightmare what players would there be in the 2nd Round that could be Good Picks?

Things will get interesting with both wanting out.

I love that particularly second round area this year based on where the media are speculating players get selected. Late first round and early second round feels to me anyway like a real sweet spot.

Kieran Collins as a key defender if he falls. Clayton Oliver as a strong bodied midfielder if he hasn't risen too quickly. Ryan Clarke as much the same thing and I'd say even slightly better or at least more productive version as a midfielder won can win the footy with pace and endurance to match Freeman. I rate them all inside my top 10 power rankings and it's possible that some combination of these are available in the 20s.
I also like Wayne Milera and Luke Partington as options around that stage as two others who may be there in the 20s who also offer strong value.

 

[rustyg70]

With Freeman leaving, and Seeds apparently being shopped around, we will be losing a fair bit of outside pace.
Would you be inclined to keep Seeds now and hope he gets his attitude outside of footy right??
He has the ability to become a very dangerous player and one I can see that might come back to haunt us if we let him go.

 

[ThePhantom777]

With Freeman leaving, and Seeds apparently being shopped around, we will be losing a fair bit of outside pace.
Would you be inclined to keep Seeds now and hope he gets his attitude outside of footy right??
He has the ability to become a very dangerous player and one I can see that might come back to haunt us if we let him go.

Seedsman and to some extent Freeman seem to have gotten a little entitled, never a good trait esp when you haven't delivered consistent performance on the field.

 

[Knightmare]

With Freeman leaving, and Seeds apparently being shopped around, we will be losing a fair bit of outside pace.
Would you be inclined to keep Seeds now and hope he gets his attitude outside of footy right??
He has the ability to become a very dangerous player and one I can see that might come back to haunt us if we let him go.

I was never particularly keen to shop Seedsman in the first place as he is the only genuine run and carry player on our list who can generate meaningful drive. My only issue is with the difference between his best and worse games which I feel with work can be cleaned up.

You could well be right that Seedsman may be one who could come back to haunt us given his obvious talent. He could from here go any number of ways as someone who has the talent but not the consistency which can certainly make the evaluation tricky. Maybe he has the "I'm going to pull my finger out moment" or maybe it doesn't happen. He is one of those guys who can make it work if he wants it to enough though.

 

[Bard]

I was never particularly keen to shop Seedsman in the first place as he is the only genuine run and carry player on our list who can generate meaningful drive. My only issue is with the difference between his best and worse games which I feel with work can be cleaned up.

You could well be right that Seedsman may be one who could come back to haunt us given his obvious talent. He could from here go any number of ways as someone who has the talent but not the consistency which can certainly make the evaluation tricky. Maybe he has the "I'm going to pull my finger out moment" or maybe it doesn't happen. He is one of those guys who can make it work if he wants it to enough though.

I feel like if Seedsman does as you say 'pull the finger out' it'll be because of the trade jerking him into action and therefore it's not something we could have achieved without trading him out then back in anyway. Kind of a sucky position and I think our best case scenario is that a club is prepared to pay overs for that potential which generally happens anyway.

 

[Knightmare]

I feel like if Seedsman does as you say 'pull the finger out' it'll be because of the trade jerking him into action and therefore it's not something we could have achieved without trading him out then back in anyway. Kind of a sucky position and I think our best case scenario is that a club is prepared to pay overs for that potential which generally happens anyway.

If we can get pick 25 or better, that would be the objective if looking for a trade and there seems to be a market for him which is a positive and a relief in many ways with Adelaide and North Melbourne already expressing interest. We draft well generally so there is a chance we could find someone with it, or failing that trade either he or the pick on in a trade to secure Treloar or Aish.

 

[Bard]

If we can get pick 25 or better, that would be the objective if looking for a trade and there seems to be a market for him which is a positive and a relief in many ways with Adelaide and North Melbourne already expressing interest. We draft well generally so there is a chance we could find someone with it, or failing that trade either he or the pick on in a trade to secure Treloar or Aish.

With it being suggested in another thread as a trade scenario for Seedsman (without any factual backing of course), what's your take on Trent McKenzie? I know you were a huge fan previously, as were a lot of people, but he had such a poor 2015 I'm wondering if you've changed your position. Particularly from a standpoint in both his defensive game where he seems to get found out a lot (although from my knowledge it was an area he worked on a lot this year and thus probably improved) and his ability to get possessions which seems quite low so he's not really utilising his skillset to the best of his abilities.

 

[Ketchup]

With all these second rounders, any chance of Ryan Burton still being there? What's your opinion of him? I did a little bit of reading now it's that time of year and I love his size. Especially if he can move forward, not in the midfield which sounds like is his preference.

 

[Knightmare]

With it being suggested in another thread as a trade scenario for Seedsman (without any factual backing of course), what's your take on Trent McKenzie? I know you were a huge fan previously, as were a lot of people, but he had such a poor 2015 I'm wondering if you've changed your position. Particularly from a standpoint in both his defensive game where he seems to get found out a lot (although from my knowledge it was an area he worked on a lot this year and thus probably improved) and his ability to get possessions which seems quite low so he's not really utilising his skillset to the best of his abilities.

I still like Trent McKenzie and would be very willing to add him. My primary question would be his character and work ethic as he has been a relative non-improver and has had his issues so that is something the club would need to work out. So I'd like more insight behind exactly why that is.

McKenzie this year particularly I feel has been very much underutilised out of the back half and Gold Coast have so many rebounders back there. Malceski, McKenzie, Harbrow, Shaw, Kolodjashnij are all able to play back.

But I still like him as a talent and would without question explore him as an option with his price I can't help but think relatively low. And I'd consider him for a few roles. He can play down back and I'd also look at bringing him up the field onto a wing if he works on his aerobic capacity. McKenzie can cover the ground in a hurry and can really penetrate by foot so he could pretty easily be a better version of what we hoped Clinton Young would be. And that's something we could use with our lack of outside options or players able to offer meaningful penetration generally.

 

[Knightmare]

With all these second rounders, any chance of Ryan Burton still being there? What's your opinion of him? I did a little bit of reading now it's that time of year and I love his size. Especially if he can move forward, not in the midfield which sounds like is his preference.

Burton may well slide into the second round and is expected to land late first - early second round. He was projected to be a first round selection coming into the season but given the severity and low recovery from injury he is expected to slide.

In terms of his game. He could be something like a Sam Mayes equivalent in this draft.

I'm not big on leadup medium forwards. But in the second round he would be among those who would if available be a good option for consideration.

 

[THATSGOLD]

KM. Jack Crisp is highly talked up but I don't see him improving anymore and may actually go backwards next year. Thoughts?

 

[Knightmare]

KM. Jack Crisp is highly talked up but I don't see him improving anymore and may actually go backwards next year. Thoughts?

It's an interesting question.

Crisp has improved rapidly with each season. So I'm interested certainly to see whether he can continue that trend.

I'm still fairly optimistic can at least maintain if not continue his improvement.

The key for Crisp I feel will be continuing to find minutes for him on the ball (where for me anyway he plays his best football). If we manage that then he can remain highly productive and an effective component to winning as he was this season. If he is stuck for the season on a wing/forward flank then I wouldn't be surprised to see a drop in his output.

 

[Prochard123]

Hey KM
How's next years draft looking like, the KPF department especially? Or how else do you think we can get another KPF sometime?

 

[Knightmare]

Hey KM
How's next years draft looking like, the KPF department especially? Or how else do you think we can get another KPF sometime?

It's looking more like a draft for smaller/medium types and particularly midfielders more than kpps. Though there are a few ruck options.

Things can change though as it is early days and some guys may grow and improve.

Hard to say the strength overall but looking better than this years.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Im really intrigued KM, which gems will be / may be available to any smart recruiter.
What i mean is players that most clubs will rank say third round but could be like a Tom Langdon.
Who would you suggest we could pick up like this for our needs?

As an aside which draft predictor person do you find the best?
For me its Emma Quayle, she seems to know her stuff but esp picks the order very well.

 

[Knightmare]

Im really intrigued KM, which gems will be / may be available to any smart recruiter.
What i mean is players that most clubs will rank say third round but could be like a Tom Langdon.
Who would you suggest we could pick up like this for our needs?

As an aside which draft predictor person do you find the best?
For me its Emma Quayle, she seems to know her stuff but esp picks the order very well.

I got my phantom draft the closest so you should be listening to me

The issue I generally have with media phantom drafts are they don't go beyond the first or second round and offer no detail. It really frustrates me.

Overall it's much of a muchness with all the media people but Emma's content if I was to choose I find relatively the most enjoyable. One year recently she also did a terrific job in guessing almost the whole first round and deserves big credit that year whenever it was for getting at least the first round pretty close.

As for some players who could provide value in the later rounds and rookie draft. It's tougher than normal this year. That's for certain.

But for some I feel late/rookie can provide some value. Michael Hartley who will be a familiar name to many is one I like as a much improved and excellent key defender who can not only stop his man but also not take some intercept marks. Mason Redman from SA has been an improver over the course of the season and is one if he falls into the 3rd round and beyond is someone who can develop. Daniel Capiron after being overlooked last year has had a strong season, had a terrific final last week where for me he was B.O.G. and also has been excellent through the VFL so through performance he is one who is worth as a backman considering. Nicholas Coughlan as another overlooked last year as a key defender has improved greatly and like Capiron is one who has performed when given VFL opportunities. Tom Phillips and Kade Answerth are two strong performers from Oakleigh and again that one year older and have had strong years. David Cuningham, Darcy Cameron. So those are some names I'm looking at late/rookie draft for some value if I had to pick some names.

 

[Bard]

With Michael Talia effectively being sacked by the Bulldogs do you think he'd fit our list well? Probably the best KPP without a known future on the trade table atm.

 

[Knightmare]

With Michael Talia effectively being sacked by the Bulldogs do you think he'd fit our list well? Probably the best KPP without a known future on the trade table atm.

It's an interesting development with Michael Talia.

He is a young player, and as a young key position player on the rise. I would be very open to making a trade for him if we believe he can become a best 22 player and either our number one or number two key defender.

He has become more offensively aggressive this year and has taken a lot more intercept marks. So I do very much like the way his game is tracking as one of the better young key defenders with scope for further strong improvement over the coming seasons.