Collingwood List Management Thread

[Slattery_20]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

I see this thrown around a lot. Can you name some example 'way, way' better offers?

No, I honestly can't.
Only going off Adelaide pulling the pin - would seem to indicate that GWS wanted a required player.

 

[Scodog10]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

A few years ago these kids would of been drafted at 17 so its not as big a risk as you might think ie B.Reid

Keep going we're talking Pendlebury, Gibbs, Sidebottom, Ball, Franklin, Watts and Deledio. Who were all 17 when drafted so basically the same age as the kids that will go under this scheme.

 

[Knightmare]

Just updated notes on p1. Including player rankings + notes as well as projected list changes.

 

[TradeDraft]

Rookie:
Would probably want a fair few active rookie selections which is why I recommended that we delist a fair portion of our rookie list. Below are some relevant rookies who look set to join us in 2012:
Jarrod Witts (NSW/ACT Scholarship. 208cm, 107kg ruckman! Has been a standout so far at the u18 champs for NSW. Not an unco tall by any stretch of the imagination and while he blows up pretty easy he has shown more than just a couple of signs to suggest that he might have a future at AFL level with time. Possible senior list as mentioned earlier)
Michael Harley (NSW/ACT Scholarship. Key position defender. 196cm. Athletic background and was high jumper. Like Witts has shown promise this season and also looks like great value! Stylistically he plays allot like Presti!)

Witts on the Rookie List would be the best way but if he Does well in the VFL but I think Harlety would be a Lock for the Rookie List

1st round pick 2011: Been a long time since we have had the opportunity to use this selection now but I’d certainly have it on the table because it is still a valuable piece which almost certainly will need to be included if we are going to strike a deal with GWS.

I am not sure if we should trade our 1st Round Pick for the 3rd Year - IF we do it would be part of getting a 17 Year old from GWS

42. Jonathan Ceglar: The bonus we got out of the Krakouer deal. Solid ruck prospect who has at times shown some good signs. Can look dangerous up forward. Has a long way to go but I think he will put the work in. Needs time. With Witts likely in 2-3 years time to take over from Jolly when he retires Ceglar might be a good no.2 ruck option because he does have the ability to play forward and look dangerous at times which makes him a good candidate for the role.

Agree he could be a very good 2nd Ruckman along with Witts in a Few Years

 

[Knightmare]

Witts on the Rookie List would be the best way but if he Does well in the VFL but I think Harlety would be a Lock for the Rookie List

I am not sure if we should trade our 1st Round Pick for the 3rd Year - IF we do it would be part of getting a 17 Year old from GWS

Agree he could be a very good 2nd Ruckman along with Witts in a Few Years

Agree on all fronts.

With Witts it's down to whether we can clear enough positions on our list to make room for him or else has to go as rookie. Strong VFL form would not harm his chances of going straight to senior list. A second round talent in this draft so if there is room for both he and Bolton, you'd think they would be two logical promotions.
Hartley will go rookie.

1st rounder should be on the table for a trade for one of the GWS kids or I'd also add one of the young Gold Coast talents - Toy/Wilkinson would be the two I'd put that selection on the table to go after. But certainly in a trade for an established player wouldn't unless absolutely necessary to trade the selection.

With Witts/Wood/Ceglar on the list next year it will be interesting to see how the ruck minutes are distributed. With Witts I don't think it's all that likely that Ceglar will become the no.1 ruckman, even when developed so I think the best approach is to try and create a role for him. The forward/ruck role at this stage seems to suit him because he can be competitive in the ruck while providing an ok target up forward at times.
I also tend to like the Ceglar to no.2 ruck position because with N.Brown's knee problems and with Tarrant 32 next year Keeffe really needs to stay in the backline because there is a chance that he and Reid might be our key backman for the next 10 years.

 

[blaze036]

heath shaw for O'Meara + pick 10-12 from gws... i know some ppl will hate this idea but realistcally we can replace shaw with goldsack / keefe / young and still be the number 1 team. we need a young superstar for the future as we havnt had any high picks for a few years.

 

[Knightmare]

heath shaw for O'Meara + pick 10-12 from gws... i know some ppl will hate this idea but realistcally we can replace shaw with goldsack / keefe / young and still be the number 1 team. we need a young superstar for the future as we havnt had any high picks for a few years.

Down on Heath Shaw? The club certainly isn't. Made a silly mistake but is still a very important leader down back and a big reason why our backline is as good as it is.

Also worth noting trading Shaw would not be enough to get O'Meara. Maybe Shaw + 1st rounder might come closer. But the club has no intention of trading Shaw who is probably a best 6-8 player at the club. Today I felt he was sorely missed down back and we leaked allot more goals than we would usually allow from such limited delivery, particularly in the first half his absense was evident.

You are right that we have some talented defenders waiting on the sidelines for opportunities, but Shaw's quality would be sorely missed.
Required player.
When you have just come off a premiership and still in the mix to win more over the next 3-4 years (based on the age of the core group of our list) it would be foolish to trade required players who are important in achieving this success.

Still adding enough quality young talent from low picks and through less conventional methods for our future to be incredibly bright making the non use of 1st round picks a non issue.
The other factor that helps this out is that we have leaders of the caliber of Maxwell and Ball as well as players with the work ethic of Pendles and Cloke to drive and motivate these young players to get the best out of themselves which I would argue to be more important than having top draft selections. This I believe as well as our great recruiting and player development programs is a big reason why we are getting the results out of kids like Fasolo, Seedsman, Ugle and Bolton that we have been seeing.

 

[Scodog10]

I'm wary of how to bring this up as he's a champion of the club, and I'm concerned I'll get flamed over it, but how would people feel if Didak were put on the trade table at years end (only if he show's no improvement over the rest of the season)?

Knight had him at 24 on the list atm (which I believe is about right) yet if he were on the open market, despite his poor form this year, he would quite easily net us a top 5 pick and a very handy player. It would be one of those rare situations where he'd be worth a hell of a lot more to other teams than us (bearing in mind how well we've performed this year without him showing anything).

Even before he did his calf he seemed a yard slower than he was last year (considering last year he was probably average at best in the speed stakes its a concern), we have a number of options in that area of the ground to cover him, his skills seem to have dropped away and though he's always skirted packs a touch this year it seems to be more pronounced than ever. Plus I'm just starting to get concerns over his body and he still has 2 years of a contract to go after this....

Again I'm not advocating we do it and I know the club wouldn't even entertain it, but I just thought it might be worthy of discussion

 

[mdc]

if [Didak] were on the open market, despite his poor form this year, he would quite easily net us a top 5 pick and a very handy player.

You're dreaming. He's turning 29 next year, has a history of off-field trouble and is coming off a shit season...we'd do well to get a late 1st for him on the open market.

 

[soreplums]

I'm wary of how to bring this up as he's a champion of the club, and I'm concerned I'll get flamed over it, but how would people feel if Didak were put on the trade table at years end (only if he show's no improvement over the rest of the season)?

Knight had him at 24 on the list atm (which I believe is about right) yet if he were on the open market, despite his poor form this year, he would quite easily net us a top 5 pick and a very handy player. It would be one of those rare situations where he'd be worth a hell of a lot more to other teams than us (bearing in mind how well we've performed this year without him showing anything).

Even before he did his calf he seemed a yard slower than he was last year (considering last year he was probably average at best in the speed stakes its a concern), we have a number of options in that area of the ground to cover him, his skills seem to have dropped away and though he's always skirted packs a touch this year it seems to be more pronounced than ever. Plus I'm just starting to get concerns over his body and he still has 2 years of a contract to go after this....

Again I'm not advocating we do it and I know the club wouldn't even entertain it, but I just thought it might be worthy of discussion

We won't get a top 5 pick for him. The thought briefly popped into my mind, but it just brings me too much pain to think of Collingwood without him.

 

[Heritier 09]

didak goes nowhere. could play his best footy in the coming years in my opinion.

his injury issues have affected his fitness, and in turn his skills. i hope knight is only suggesting he's not best 22 based on his games played this year. topped our goal kicking in the premiership year, AA in the premiership year, continued to do freakish things week in week out. is not required to have his head over the pill, and will still be very important if he can get run in his legs before the finals.

could easily win himself a 3rd AA guernsey with another 50 goal season in 2012.

Couldn't dream of trading him, Wasn't he AA in 06 and had an ordinary 07 due to the medial injury? might have the years wrong, but anyone suggesting he won't be back to his best is calling it way too soon.

 

[the mighty T]

Im not sure if this is the right thread, but i figured it fell under list management so i thought i should air my slight grievance with the clubs recruiting here

I preface this by saying, wever recruited wonderfully and i cant fault Hine and the players we have selected in the past few years

However, with Dawes going down, it has been made obvious that we have a deficiency with KPF's. Now some of you will cite that Tarrant is capable, as is L. Brown etc, but the fact is they both have defined roles (especially Taz) and neither of them fits into our long term future due to age etc

I must admit, i was somewhat flabbergasted that in the last 2 drafts we havent picked up any prospects in the national draft that can fill a FF or CHF role. Yes i realise we have perham and riley on the rookie list, but not 24 months ago we were looking at JA or Dawes or (more praying that he wouldnt be injured) Rusling, to fill that deep forward role.

Whilst i see it only as a minor concern, it seems to be an oversight nonetheless. and if it just so happened that we went without dawes for the majority of the season, or if another forward i.e cloke went down, where would we turn to?

2008 saw a young chris dawes banging the door down at vfl level before he got his shot. I dont see why we shouldnt have a similar player doing the same thing this season

Food for thought at almost 3 am haha

 

[Scodog10]

You're dreaming. He's turning 29 next year, has a history of off-field trouble and is coming off a shit season...we'd do well to get a late 1st for him on the open market.

I wouldn't have written that on the draft/ trades board, but on here the last thing I wanted to do was underestimate what he's worth (because he's a favourite of so many). I wrote it more in the hope of possibly not alienating anyone further after bringing it up, I did go to far with it though

Just on the late first rounder IMO all 3 of St Kilda, Sydney and Fremantle would have a go at him (as all 3 could do with a little more cream up forward) and I reckon they'd all give first round picks. So I guess it depends on what you class as a late first rounder in this draft whether it be 15-20 or 20-25....

 

[Knightmare]

I'm wary of how to bring this up as he's a champion of the club, and I'm concerned I'll get flamed over it, but how would people feel if Didak were put on the trade table at years end (only if he show's no improvement over the rest of the season)?

Knight had him at 24 on the list atm (which I believe is about right) yet if he were on the open market, despite his poor form this year, he would quite easily net us a top 5 pick and a very handy player. It would be one of those rare situations where he'd be worth a hell of a lot more to other teams than us (bearing in mind how well we've performed this year without him showing anything).

Even before he did his calf he seemed a yard slower than he was last year (considering last year he was probably average at best in the speed stakes its a concern), we have a number of options in that area of the ground to cover him, his skills seem to have dropped away and though he's always skirted packs a touch this year it seems to be more pronounced than ever. Plus I'm just starting to get concerns over his body and he still has 2 years of a contract to go after this....

Again I'm not advocating we do it and I know the club wouldn't even entertain it, but I just thought it might be worthy of discussion

Just having a poor year by his standards due to restricted preseason. Little he can do about it. Have heard from a number of Collingwood insiders that he really enjoys and gets allot out of the Arizona trips and he seems really to have suffered from not getting that training up in at the altitude.

MDC is right, it's pretty hard to trade a 29 year old who has had a poor season. Particularly one who has had past off-field issues. Would be lucky to get into the top 20 - in an average draft.

Probably has most value to us and with a full preseason next year could return to some strong form again which would be huge for us.

However, with Dawes going down, it has been made obvious that we have a deficiency with KPF's. Now some of you will cite that Tarrant is capable, as is L. Brown etc, but the fact is they both have defined roles (especially Taz) and neither of them fits into our long term future due to age etc

I must admit, i was somewhat flabbergasted that in the last 2 drafts we havent picked up any prospects in the national draft that can fill a FF or CHF role. Yes i realise we have perham and riley on the rookie list, but not 24 months ago we were looking at JA or Dawes or (more praying that he wouldnt be injured) Rusling, to fill that deep forward role.

Whilst i see it only as a minor concern, it seems to be an oversight nonetheless. and if it just so happened that we went without dawes for the majority of the season, or if another forward i.e cloke went down, where would we turn to?

2008 saw a young chris dawes banging the door down at vfl level before he got his shot. I dont see why we shouldnt have a similar player doing the same thing this season

Food for thought at almost 3 am haha

As a KPF the two things I'm looking at are firstly Tom Hawkins if he becomes available - because he is that ready to play big forward, who maybe could take over from L.Brown and also cover for Dawes if needbe for the time being.
Brett Eddy (COLL VFL) is the other I like. Out for the season with injury but as an 18 year old has been consistantly been kicking bags of 3 which is impressive.

In 2012 as a F/S selection (for the 2013 season) should get James Stewart who will likely have to be our 1st round selection. Quality young KPF. Sensational talent - still skinny but when he develops look out.

didak goes nowhere. could play his best footy in the coming years in my opinion.

his injury issues have affected his fitness, and in turn his skills. i hope knight is only suggesting he's not best 22 based on his games played this year. topped our goal kicking in the premiership year, AA in the premiership year, continued to do freakish things week in week out. is not required to have his head over the pill, and will still be very important if he can get run in his legs before the finals.

could easily win himself a 3rd AA guernsey with another 50 goal season in 2012.

Couldn't dream of trading him, Wasn't he AA in 06 and had an ordinary 07 due to the medial injury? might have the years wrong, but anyone suggesting he won't be back to his best is calling it way too soon.

Not sure he will get back to his best footy next year, but certainly think he will be of value for the coming couple of seasons if he can get his body right.

Fear not, Didak I only have rated at 24 based on this seasons form. In the header I made mention that my rankings are based only on this years form and where they sit with regard to the best 22 in my view, with reputations meaning nothing.
Last year I had him at 4, so with a full preseason I see no reason why he can't get back into our 10 most valueable players.

Just on the late first rounder IMO all 3 of St Kilda, Sydney and Fremantle would have a go at him (as all 3 could do with a little more cream up forward) and I reckon they'd all give first round picks. So I guess it depends on what you class as a late first rounder in this draft whether it be 15-20 or 20-25....

Sydney won't have a live selection since they get Tom Mitchell through F/S. I'd say St Kilda, Hawthorn, Western Bull Dogs and even Geelong would be dead keen on Didak if they could get their hands on him through their 1st round selection.
But giving up a top 10 club player to premiership contendors probably isn't the wisest of practices it's fair to say.
Just look at the influence on winning adding Jolly + Ball had on us. Didak could do similar with one of these clubs and take them over the edge which is the last thing we would want to do.

 

[blaze036]

Also worth noting trading Shaw would not be enough to get O'Meara. Maybe Shaw + 1st rounder might come closer.

Surely GWS is dreaming if they think they can get Shaw without losing anything (seeing as they can't take O'Meara for themselves). How is a proven superstar defender + a pick for a 17 year old fair!? I doubt GWS will ask this much because absoluty no club will accept this. At such a young age you can't be certain his gonna be a star

Everyone thought josh fraser was gona be a star when he was 17-18

 

[Knightmare]

Surely GWS is dreaming if they think they can get Shaw without losing anything (seeing as they can't take O'Meara for themselves). How is a proven superstar defender + a pick for a 17 year old fair!? I doubt GWS will ask this much because absoluty no club will accept this. At such a young age you can't be certain his gonna be a star

Everyone thought josh fraser was gona be a star when he was 17-18

GWS are in it for the long run and most want high draft picks and future draft picks.

O'Meara is a projected no.1/2 overall for the 2012 draft - very strong.

Shaw is worth closer to pick 7/8 in an open market I would calculate - but would obviously have far greater value to Collingwood due to age + level of production when playing.


What GWS will be looking at is something like Pick 4 + Pick 29 in the exchange for O'Meara.
Or possibly x2 1st round compensation picks which can be used in later drafts as well as a top 20 selection this year - this could happen if GWS sign Tom Scully for example.

These would be the types of offers GWS will be entertaining for O'Meara - because 17 other clubs around the league are very keen!

 

[loki04]

GWS are in it for the long run and most want high draft picks and future draft picks.

O'Meara is a projected no.1/2 overall for the 2012 draft - very strong.Shaw is worth closer to pick 7/8 in an open market I would calculate - but would obviously have far greater value to Collingwood due to age + level of production when playing.


What GWS will be looking at is something like Pick 4 + Pick 29 in the exchange for O'Meara.
Or possibly x2 1st round compensation picks which can be used in later drafts as well as a top 20 selection this year - this could happen if GWS sign Tom Scully for example.

These would be the types of offers GWS will be entertaining for O'Meara - because 17 other clubs around the league are very keen!

According to Adelaide GWS arent after picks as they have enough of them they are after any clubs top 5 players, hence why Adelaide told them to shove it.

 

[Bay Pie]

According to Adelaide GWS arent after picks as they have enough of them they are after any clubs top 5 players, hence why Adelaide told them to shove it.

Agree. I think the ony picks they are after are the compensation picks that can be used in the 2012 ND.

In the paper today, the mentioned it. If Scully leaves and the Dees get 2 x 1st rounders, there is your O'Meara deal. No one will beat that. The Dees lose a no.1 pick and pick up the likely no.1 pick of 2012 if eligible. GWS get Scully & at least 2 picks in the 1st round (1 would be their own)and 1 at the end of the 1st round around 20ish.

 

[Knightmare]

According to Adelaide GWS arent after picks as they have enough of them they are after any clubs top 5 players, hence why Adelaide told them to shove it.

Depends who it is. If an under 25 year old, top 5 type, then maybe. Hard to see a club looking to get rid of that type. But would think best off going after concession picks to activate in later seasons to maximise the injection of talent they get.

Agree. I think the ony picks they are after are the compensation picks that can be used in the 2012 ND.

In the paper today, the mentioned it. If Scully leaves and the Dees get 2 x 1st rounders, there is your O'Meara deal. No one will beat that. The Dees lose a no.1 pick and pick up the likely no.1 pick of 2012 if eligible. GWS get Scully & at least 2 picks in the 1st round (1 would be their own)and 1 at the end of the 1st round around 20ish.

This wouldn't surprise me. I'm not as sure as some that Scully is gone.
But if he does go then: x2 compo picks + 1st rounder in the teens would net them O'Meara.
The compo picks are what they want more than anything.

Port trading pick 4 + 2nd rounder = Brodie Grundy (ruckman).

So if we can do a 2 players (possible Goldsack + McCarthy) + 1st rounder for Jake Stringer as the third guy, hopefully that is where we can get in on the action because we won't be matching any of these types of deals.

You can bet Gold Coast will try to get in on the action also with pick 6, 2nd rounder + player.

 

[soreplums]

Anyone else read the short article in todays paper about Marty Clarke likely to make a comeback to the pies?

 

[TradeDraft]

Anyone else read the short article in todays paper about Marty Clarke likely to make a comeback to the pies?

Nope Do you have a Link?

 

[Williamc99]

Anyone else read the short article in todays paper about Marty Clarke likely to make a comeback to the pies?

Dunno where I saw it but I swear I've been hearing that for a while.

 

[HFF]

It was definitely in yesterday's HS in a little snippet. Cannot seem to find the link electronically but it said that he looks certain to return to Collingwood next season.

 

[magpiewarrior]

So does Brad Dick, Happy Birthday for yesterday Dickie, I hope the rehab is going well.

 

[twaters]

It was definitely in yesterday's HS in a little snippet. Cannot seem to find the link electronically but it said that he looks certain to return to Collingwood next season.

Did it suggest how Marty Clarke would get to us? Eg first round draft pick? PSD? Some deal with Leprechauns? or Giants? Or maybe the AFL are about.....to bring in a new rule? (to supercede the 'old' new rule about players being allowed a year off and then return to the same list; now all past players on any list have a 'free time away from the game agency' right to return to said list if Club agrees after a relaxed few years down the track).

Think Bucks and an attacking-focused Marty would click well, but there might be a few rainbows to tick yet before anything 'is certain'.