List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022--> PART 2

[Bianconeri]

He's had one pre-season. His ruck craft improved after those senior opportunities. The stronger he gets, the better he'll be. And hopefully gives him the confidence to take a mark, which is clearly his one thing that he needs to work on. But his contest work, follow up, his tackling has been outstanding. But like all kids, just about developing all parts of his game.

Improvement isn’t always guaranteed see Poulter.

 

[Quicky]

he isn't 197cm, he is closer to 199cm these days, last time I asked him early in the year. But cant win a hitout? Not the case either. Its something that slowly was improving as a kid he is. But later part of the season he wasn't used as much in the ruck as he previously did. More forward/ruck.

I guess they pulled out Nathan Murphy's measuring tape because Begg's club and draft profile have him at 197cm.

I did watch Begg this season in the VFL and his AFL games. Hitouts were not a strength. He avg 15ho a game at VFL and 3ho a game at AFL level.

He'll struggle to be a ruck or key forward with his ruck craft and marking. He avg 0.8 marks a game at VFL level. That's not encouraging.

I saw a player who struggles to be involved in the play outside the confines of the immediate ruck contest and his ground ball efforts in that area.

He competes and is agile but he's the definition of a long shot and doesn't have a clear role with his limitations.

 

[Quicky]

Jen says he's 199, which is actually the same height as Max Lynch - everyone seemed ok with his height and he didn't have Beggs leap or agility. The other string to his bow will be clearance work. If he can bulk up and maintain a leap, he's got a shot.

Why would the club profile lie. Lets all get excited Beggs magicked another inch. Fair dinkum.

 

[Bianconeri]

Why would the club profile lie. Lets all get excited Beggs magicked another inch. Fair dinkum.

Usually when the club lies it’s the other way around by listing them taller then what they are. Who remembers when Jackson Paine was looking decent as a 194cm key forward prospect?

 

[Mick F]

That’s the problem with drafting kids, you recruit them before they have played a VFL or AFL game.

 

[sr36]

How many leaping rucks have been able to get away with being a big standard player? It seems must bog average rucks get through their careers by being a physically aggressive workhorses.

That’s not the to say Begg could pave way as a new type of average I just don’t think there’s a precedent.

My view is simply that with his leap, he's tall enough to have a hope of becoming competitive in the ruck contest. Might not happen, but I think it's a decent chance. And if he gets to competitive with his ruckwork, his follow up work will also be good enough for him to be a decent ruck.

 

[JuniorB]

he isn't 197cm, he is closer to 199cm these days, last time I asked him early in the year. But cant win a hitout? Not the case either. Its something that slowly was improving as a kid he is. But later part of the season he wasn't used as much in the ruck as he previously did. More forward/ruck.

Tall kids that age often keep growing, so he could end up over the 200cm mark.

 

[Jen2310]

Jen says he's 199, which is actually the same height as Max Lynch - everyone seemed ok with his height and he didn't have Beggs leap or agility. The other string to his bow will be clearance work. If he can bulk up and maintain a leap, he's got a shot.

I asked him how tall he was after I saw him at an aflw game, and he said 6”6which I looked it up and it said 198cm, near enough to 199cm. Both hine and his manager mentioned he had grown over the summer too. Looks like mighty tall standing next to him


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[Jen2310]

Improvement isn’t always guaranteed see Poulter.

No it’s not but the coaches were impressed he improved quicker than they imagined in a short amount of time. I think they have faith in him. I am optimistic


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[sr36]

I asked him how tall he was after I saw him at an aflw game, and he said 6”6which I looked it up and it said 198cm, near enough to 199cm. Both hine and his manager mentioned he had grown over the summer too. Looks like mighty tall standing next to him


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I'm going with 205cm.

 

[Apex36]

I asked him how tall he was after I saw him at an aflw game, and he said 6”6which I looked it up and it said 198cm, near enough to 199cm. Both hine and his manager mentioned he had grown over the summer too. Looks like mighty tall standing next to him


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Pretty sure Kelly or his dad told you at one point he’d grown to 196 or 198 too, and that’s flat out not true. He’s still 194 at best…

 

[Jen2310]

Pretty sure Kelly or his dad told you at one point he’d grown to 196 or 198 too, and that’s flat out not true. He’s still 194 at best…

That wasn't me. He told someone.
Seeing Kelly in person it does feel he is more around 195cm. But hey, who knows lol Not that there is that much of a difference, a few cms here or there.

 

[No SPIN]

He mightn’t have had the opportunity but it still doesn’t change my point

Lack of opportunity makes your point tenuous at best.

 

[JuniorB]

I'm going with 205cm.

A Collingwood 7 footer...

 

[No SPIN]

I guess they pulled out Nathan Murphy's measuring tape because Begg's club and draft profile have him at 197cm.

I did watch Begg this season in the VFL and his AFL games. Hitouts were not a strength. He avg 15ho a game at VFL and 3ho a game at AFL level.

He'll struggle to be a ruck or key forward with his ruck craft and marking. He avg 0.8 marks a game at VFL level. That's not encouraging.

I saw a player who struggles to be involved in the play outside the confines of the immediate ruck contest and his ground ball efforts in that area.

He competes and is agile but he's the definition of a long shot and doesn't have a clear role with his limitations.

Of course Begg “ struggled to get involved outside Ruck contests”, given he was playing Ruck for the entire season.
Not sure I get this negativity about a 19yo kid, thrown in the deep end in his first season, especially given his height, outstanding athleticism, mobility and competitiveness.
These attributes in a 197cm 19yo are cause for optimism, not pessimism.

 

[sr36]

Usually when the club lies it’s the other way around by listing them taller then what they are. Who remembers when Jackson Paine was looking decent as a 194cm key forward prospect?

Nah what happened this time is they originally thought of him as a forward/ruck and 197cm is the perfect height for that, so they lied. But now that they realise that he's a ruck, the truth is he's actually 205cm.

 

[manicpie]

Of course Begg “ struggled to get involved outside Ruck contests”, given he was playing Ruck for the entire season.
Not sure I get this negativity about a 19yo kid, thrown in the deep end in his first season, especially given his height, outstanding athleticism, mobility and competitiveness.
These attributes in a 197cm 19yo are cause for optimism, not pessimism.

He was even able to bulk up a bit during the year. He's going to be an athletic beast and once he learns to put it all together, he'll be a very good player. 197cm doesn't concern me because he has a very good centre clearance game. He has a good marking technique but just doesn't use it enough, that will come with time

 

[Bianconeri]

Lack of opportunity makes your point tenuous at best.

He spent time up forward both in the VFL and AFL and showed nothing whilst there.

 

[No SPIN]

He spent time up forward both in the VFL and AFL and showed nothing whilst there.

So now you don’t agree lack of opportunity was the issue?
Either way, his pinching fwd is not a true assessment of his abilities or potential.

 

[Gone Critical]

Jen says he's 199, which is actually the same height as Max Lynch - everyone seemed ok with his height and he didn't have Beggs leap or agility. The other string to his bow will be clearance work. If he can bulk up and maintain a leap, he's got a shot.

He is listed at 197 cm. He came to the club at that as a nearly 19 yo and it wasnt updated at the started of 2022 on the club site . Very few men and virtually no women gain height at this age. You see the notable exceptions in the AFL, Patty Cripps, Finn Callaghan, Sam Darcy. The boys that go through a very late puberty and so still get a few cm after their 18th birthday.

Begg doesnt look like he belongs to that group. Any variation in measurements is more likely in the measuring technique than real growth. Unless the club updates him we should go with the 197 and even where it does get updated in some players its likely suspect.

Max Lynch is a good point. Listed at 198cm and 98 kg in his welcome to Collingwood article in 2016, draft central it seems at the same time had him 200cm and 99 kg. He is now listed at 200cm. Did he grow after he was drafted probably not but he would have likely gained weight although not much according to these articles. Whatever the vagaries of 1% differences in measures he is still a considerably bigger man over all than Begg at the same age. That also passes the eye test and Lynch is a small ruckman. We can mull over these minutia but however you cut it Begg is quite a bit smaller than every AFL clubs current no 1 ruckman. He is a small ruck and thats a disadvantage which it looks likely he will struggle to overcome.

 

[partypie]

I think the plan will be to switch to one ruck and a KPP chopping out. 5 on the bench may change that though.

Plus I'm not in the Begg is no chance as a ruck club. I think he's an ok prospect, but even more significantly, I don't think he's much of a prospect for any other role, so I think he'll be playing ruck again this year.

Ruck quality may be an issue, but depth is unlikely to be.

Personally I would not at all be surprised to see him develop into a CHB type. Has already shown flashes of some handy ability at ground level with his second and third efforts, looks to tick the mobility box and is good size for a KPD (not so good for a ruck) with a decent leap and long arms thrown in as extras.

Time will tell I guess, but I reckon down back is his best chance of making it (he's just too short to be a #1 ruck for his entire career imo), but he is in the right window age-wise and has the right physical makeup to to step into one of those KPD roles a 2-3 years down the track.

 

[Gone Critical]

I asked him how tall he was after I saw him at an aflw game, and he said 6”6which I looked it up and it said 198cm, near enough to 199cm. Both hine and his manager mentioned he had grown over the summer too. Looks like mighty tall standing next to him


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No offence Jen but the difference between a 197 cm man and a 199cm man is about 1%. If you can pick that change just by the eye you have mighty sensitive vision. Likewise the throwaway line Hine used after Begg was at the club that he walked past him in the club and reckoned he had grown since he arrived has no substance. Its just too small a difference to tell with out accurate reproducible measures using proper equipment. Hine like you just wanted it to be true.

 

[Jen2310]

No offence Jen but the difference between a 197 cm man and a 199cm man is about 1%. If you can pick that change just by the eye you have mighty sensitive vision. Likewise the throwaway line Hine used after Begg was at the club that he walked past him in the club and reckoned he had grown since he arrived has no substance. Its just too small a difference to tell with out accurate reproducible measures using proper equipment. Hine like you just wanted it to be true.

Yeah, its very little difference. Its all a guessing game and only go on what we read on the website. Whether he is 197, 198 or 199, doesn't matter too much. His leap makes up for any height he misses for a pinch hit ruck

 

[Bianconeri]

So now you don’t agree lack of opportunity was the issue?
Either way, his pinching fwd is not a true assessment of his abilities or potential.

Lack of opportunity didn’t help but with the opportunity he had he showed little potential as a fwd.

 

[Quicky]

Of course Begg “ struggled to get involved outside Ruck contests”, given he was playing Ruck for the entire season.
Not sure I get this negativity about a 19yo kid, thrown in the deep end in his first season, especially given his height, outstanding athleticism, mobility and competitiveness.
These attributes in a 197cm 19yo are cause for optimism, not pessimism.

Think about different phases of play. Ruck. Ground level contest. Open play. Aerial contest. Begg only gets involved in the ground level contest at the moment. He has a lot to work on in those other phases.

I'm not questioning he has some positive playing qualities including his attitude, competitiveness (really important imo) and athleticism. Equally he doesn't find the ball enough in open play and is a poor mark.

There's enough uncertainty there to debate his best role and question his chances.