List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022-->

[Anzacday]

Key dates attached so we know what’s going on when.

• Friday 30 September at 9.00am

• AFL Restricted Free Agency and Unrestricted Free Agency Period commences

Monday 03 October at 9.00am

• AFL Trade Period commences – Players & Selections

Friday 07 October at 5.00pm

• Close of AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.

Monday 10 October

• AFL Draft Nominations open (9am)
• AFL Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer 3 Day Period Ends (5pm)

Wednesday 12 October at 7.30pm

• AFL Trade Period closes – players and selections

Thursday 03 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) commences

Wednesday 09 November at 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (1) closes

Friday 11 November at 9.00am

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) commences

Tuesday 15 November by 5.00pm

• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (2) closes
• AFL Trade Period closes – selections only

Monday 21 November by 3.00pm

• AFL Draft Nominations close

Monday 28 November at 7.10pm

• 2022 AFL Draft Round One (Venue TBC)
• Father/Son, Academy & NGA and Players Bidding opens.

Tuesday 29 November

• AFL Trade Period – selections only (5.45pm to 6.30pm)
• 2022 AFL National Draft Round two until completion (7pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period opens (10pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) commences (10pm)
• Rookie Upgrade Period closes (11pm)
• AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period (3) closes (11pm)

Wednesday 30 November

• AFL Pre-Season Draft (3pm, online)
• AFL Rookie Draft (3.20pm, online)

Thursday 01 December by 4.00pm

• Final AFL Club List Lodgement

 

[LuckyLee]

He's 28. There is no reason with a good preseason he can't recapture form, especially given his body will be rested off a year out.
At 28 both Sidebum and Pendles you'd be demanding first round compo if you want to use them.

Even with his flaws he is still one of the comps top Ruckmen/followers.

He is definitely worthy of a top 18 pick still.

So you expect Dees to take on his full wage and pay us a first round pick, in the HOPE that an older, injured and out-of-form Grundy MIGHT somehow be able to rediscover past peak performance?

Surely you can see that that is unrealistic? Melbourne is bearing all the cost and risk with no guarantees. They will very reasonably want significantly discounted pricing for taking on that risk. That’s exactly how it works in business. And make no mistake, footy now is very much a business.


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[The Royal Sampler]

I saw it reported Thomas was staying because of Clarkson. This mornings news may change things.

Might change for Ben McKay next year now too.

 

[leon123]

So you expect Dees to take on his full wage and pay us a first round pick, in the HOPE that an older, injured and out-of-form Grundy MIGHT somehow be able to rediscover past peak performance?

Surely you can see that that is unrealistic? Melbourne is bearing all the cost and risk with no guarantees. They will very reasonably want significantly discounted pricing for taking on that risk. That’s exactly how it works in business. And make no mistake, footy now is very much a business.


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I do understand what you are saying.

What do you think Grundy is worth in an open market ie annual salary for I think it's five more years (with no trade restrictions as such)?

 

[jonbe54]

So you expect Dees to take on his full wage and pay us a first round pick, in the HOPE that an older, injured and out-of-form Grundy MIGHT somehow be able to rediscover past peak performance?

Surely you can see that that is unrealistic? Melbourne is bearing all the cost and risk with no guarantees. They will very reasonably want significantly discounted pricing for taking on that risk. That’s exactly how it works in business. And make no mistake, footy now is very much a business.


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We don't always agree lucky but you cut through to the heart of the matter.

We can't have our cake and eat it too, clear the contract or get a better pick with part of the contract still to be paid by us.

 

[LuckyLee]

I do understand what you are saying.

What do you think Grundy is worth in an open market ie annual salary for I think it's five more years (with no trade restrictions as such)?

If Grundy was on $700K pa and had played this season without the PCL and stress-fracture injuries and then requested a trade, I reckon there would be multiple clubs bidding for his services and I guess he would be worth a first round pick, possibly even top 10.

But that’s not the reality. He hasn’t played since ANZAC Day because of two serious injuries, back-to-back. And his wage demand is $5 million over five years. And there’s only one bidder. And we are really motivated to get his contract off the books. So that’s four separate discount factors to apply.

Flip the argument - if he played for another club with the same factors listed above, what picks and dollars over the next five years would we be prepared to pay to recruit him?

A second-rounder and $700K pa feels about right to me.


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[thebigsaveloy]

If Grundy was on $700K pa and had played this season without the PCL and stress-fracture injuries and then requested a trade, I reckon there would be multiple clubs bidding for his services and I guess he would be worth a first round pick, possibly even top 10.

But that’s not the reality. He hasn’t played since ANZAC Day because of two serious injuries, back-to-back. And his wage demand is $5 million over five years. And there’s only one bidder. And we are really motivated to get his contract off the books. So that’s four separate discount factors to apply.

Flip the argument - if he played for another club with the same factors listed above, what picks and dollars over the next five years would we be prepared to pay to recruit him?

A second-rounder and $700K pa feels about right to me.


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Yes, but if I'm Melbourne I'm absolutely taking the risk that he'll be able to help us win a flag over the next year or two.

He's worth much more to them than he is to us. They can't afford to miss out on him.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Just been told by someone that knows the family. She wasn't sure before now. But he is going to Bali. He is gonna watch Jack on saturday though. Whether a Cats win would change his mind or not, I'm not sure.

Let’s hope we get Geelong’s future first, and then we can death ride them next year after potentially a flag win and several retirements. I don’t want a second for him, and we all know their 2022 first will be going to GWS for Bruhn.

 

[Jen2310]

Let’s hope we get Geelong’s future first, and then we can death ride them next year after potentially a flag win and several retirements. I don’t want a second for him, and we all know their 2022 first will be going to GWS for Bruhn.

A 2nd is in the 30's and thats unders, so lets get a future 1st.

 

[leon123]

If Grundy was on $700K pa and had played this season without the PCL and stress-fracture injuries and then requested a trade, I reckon there would be multiple clubs bidding for his services and I guess he would be worth a first round pick, possibly even top 10.

But that’s not the reality. He hasn’t played since ANZAC Day because of two serious injuries, back-to-back. And his wage demand is $5 million over five years. And there’s only one bidder. And we are really motivated to get his contract off the books. So that’s four separate discount factors to apply.

Flip the argument - if he played for another club with the same factors listed above, what picks and dollars over the next five years would we be prepared to pay to recruit him?

A second-rounder and $700K pa feels about right to me.


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Thanks LuckyLee for responding, because my question is really about me trying to understand this Grundy debuckle.

I agree $700 sounds about right to me for discussion sake.

So we are paying $300k premium for at a minimum a solid/good ruck.

I love Cox. The Cox/Cameron thing doing OK, but really I dont think its the sustainable solution.

Say Cameron is on say $300k, would it be better to keep grundy on the million, get Cameron of the books?

Give Grundy a marketing role post retirement on inflated salary?

I dont know, its just not making sense to me

 

[LuckyLee]

Yes, but if I'm Melbourne I'm absolutely taking the risk that he'll be able to help us win a flag over the next year or two.

He's worth much more to them than he is to us. They can't afford to miss out on him.

I disagree. Rucks are over-rated. They’re crash-and-bash, work-horses. They should never be a club’s highest paid player or even close to it. The mega deals should be reserved for key forwards and Brownlow-worthy midfielders and nobody else. We stuffed up and are now regretting it.

Look at the Swans. Their GF ruck is four-club journeyman, Tom Hickey.

The Dees could just as easily succeed with someone like Rory Lobb, who is also gettable and much cheaper.


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[Jasper84]

Thanks LuckyLee for responding, because my question is really about me trying to understand this Grundy debuckle.

I agree $700 sounds about right to me for discussion sake.

So we are paying $300k premium for at a minimum a solid/good ruck.

I love Cox. The Cox/Cameron thing doing OK, but really I dont think its the sustainable solution.

Say Cameron is on say $300k, would it be better to keep grundy on the million, get Cameron of the books?

Give Grundy a marketing role post retirement on inflated salary?

I dont know, its just not making sense to me

We are paying a stupidity tax for the initial Grundy contract. Doesn't matter which way it's presented or how we try to get out of it, the bill will have to be paid. The sooner we all come to grips with this, the sooner we can move on.

 

[Scud2]

I disagree. Rucks are over-rated. They’re crash-and-bash, work-horses. They should never be a club’s highest paid player or even close to it. The mega deals should be reserved for key forwards and Brownlow-worthy midfielders and nobody else. We stuffed up and are now regretting it.

Look at the Swans. Their GF Rick is four-club journeyman, Tom Hickey.

The Dees could just as easily succeed with someone like Rory Lobb, who is also gettable and much cheaper.


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And look at Geelongs ruck as well

 

[Bianconeri]

The irony is you’re one of them and you don’t even know it.

What I don’t understand is how does Jon even know all these posters agendas when he has them all on ignore.

 

[well left]

That was a rumour I heard today. Apparantely he may be open to it.

I’d be ok with getting Parfitt in return. Maybe something like Henry and a third for Parfitt and a second.


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[Prexm]

Let’s hope we get Geelong’s future first, and then we can death ride them next year after potentially a flag win and several retirements. I don’t want a second for him, and we all know their 2022 first will be going to GWS for Bruhn.

Could GWS prefer a future first given how many picks they will have this year. If Geelong can trade both this year and next years firsts , it could be this year for us and next year for GWS.

 

[Everybody Panic]

This rising generation have been conditioned to believe they can have it all and deserve to.

Mostly they grow out of it but some expect the silver plate service for a McDonald's outlay of effort.

It will continue to happen more and more often.

Sad when you know the potential is all there and they won't do what's necessary.

Lol this is hilariously. I assume your older, given your choice of language, and your having a dig at a generation because you can't get what you want at your footy club. Isn't it funny how you've neglected to have a go at the club for letting go of Chugg and McMahon after only two years!

 

[Bianconeri]

Is Jack Graham even a good centre clearance player? He only averaged 0.6 centre clearances and 1.3 stoppage clearances a game.

He’s a winger isn’t he?

Sidebottom doesn’t look like he’s slowing down much and even if he does that role is coverable.

 

[loki04]

So you expect Dees to take on his full wage and pay us a first round pick, in the HOPE that an older, injured and out-of-form Grundy MIGHT somehow be able to rediscover past peak performance?

Surely you can see that that is unrealistic? Melbourne is bearing all the cost and risk with no guarantees. They will very reasonably want significantly discounted pricing for taking on that risk. That’s exactly how it works in business. And make no mistake, footy now is very much a business.


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What do you think teams done pre pies screwing the pooch trade year?

When they poached a gun player STILL in some prime years at 28 they paid not only his asking price but they duly paid in picks too.

They have confidence in enough to sell him the dream, take his contract on at 5 years and for the lot if we accept unders or at a 700kish price point. That there should tell you THEY think he is worth it.

You are underselling him and buying into the need to move him on leaving them with the whip hand.

 

[manicpie]

Lol this is hilariously. I assume your older, given your choice of language, and your having a dig at a generation because you can't get what you want at your footy club. Isn't it funny how you've neglected to have a go at the club for letting go of Chugg and McMahon after only two years!

you've done your dash, it's ignore for you

 

[SchuPie]

Let’s hope we get Geelong’s future first, and then we can death ride them next year after potentially a flag win and several retirements. I don’t want a second for him, and we all know their 2022 first will be going to GWS for Bruhn.

Yep - just picks. High picks.
They can FO with players. Don’t care who they offer, you don’t him, neither do we.

 

[LuckyLee]

We are paying a stupidity tax for the initial Grundy contract. Doesn't matter which way it's presented or how we try to get out of it, the bill will have to be paid. The sooner we all come to grips with this, the sooner we can move on.[/QUOTE]



Bingo!


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[well left]

Yep - just picks. High picks.
They can FO with players. Don’t care who they offer, you don’t him, neither do we.

A 1st rounder would be the preference but as I mentioned earlier I’d be ok with Parfitt as part of the trade as well. Fiorini wouldn’t be needed in that case and I’d think I’d prefer the first and Fiorini compared to Parfitt and a third.


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[JuniorB]

Yep - just picks. High picks.
They can FO with players. Don’t care who they offer, you don’t him, neither do we.

Unless they offer De Koning.

 

[Bianconeri]

Such a shame and disappointing he would give up so easily.

Give up on what? He’s dream to play for Geelong and he’s getting one step closer to it.

 

[Everybody Panic]

you've done your dash, it's ignore for you

Oh no. Please don't ignore me! Let's sit around and criticise generations and 20 years olds because they made a choice and didn't do what we want. Oh those selfish young people, abiding by contract law and making choices. Never would of happened in the good old days!

Edit *I think he ignored me last time anyway lol!