List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[Basil brush]

Nothing wrong with hoping for the best for your club.

100%. I am all about misguided optimism.

I still think Schultz could be the difference in us winning a flag.... I am exaggerating a bit, but I i rate him highly and don't think that trade was a mistake.

 

[stormskye]

Averaged 1.4 goals a game in less than 50%tog average (guesstimate). He’s doing something right for a guy who is apparently not up to it.

His 4th season. He should have been dominating vfl. He didn’t. We haven’t offered him a contract yet, and no other clubs targeted him. Entering his 5th season. So not sure what you mean by doing something right. The club and coaches appear to have a very different view.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

There isn't unless it leads to an improper rating and review of the team and where it's headed by those in clubland.

I'm not talking about 2025 here before someone goes there.

'improper' ?.. it's only our opinions.

Some people may just see things more positively than others.

Time will tell. None of us can see into the future.

 

[satanshoof101]

You're right we didn't have pick #4 we had Pick #2 and traded it early.

Stephenson was just poor selection overall considering the talent around him, just as easily be Naughton who'd be an even bigger household name at Pieland.

I find it interesting that people think we will never go down the ladder every year. It's hubris.

Ed Richards, Will Powell, Oscar Allen, Sam Taylor, TDK, Tom McCartin what a draft </3

Edit: Nathan Murphy at 39 is a steal <3

 

[loki04]

'improper' ?.. it's only our opinions.

Some people may just see things more positively than others.

Time will tell. None of us can see into the future.

I'm talking about those at club thinking the same way.

Like say when they trade out locking in a top 4 finish and you know finishing 17th.

Not our opinions altering their thinking.

 

[Sea fog]

100%. I am all about misguided optimism.

I still think Schultz could be the difference in us winning a flag.... I am exaggerating a bit, but I i rate him highly and don't think that trade was a mistake.

It was a massive mistake, we recruited because he wanted to come to us, not for need. Richards wants to leave because we have a surplus of small forwards. We paid a 1st and 2nd rounder for him. Had we not done that, it would have been simpler to trade for Houston or others with a top 10 pick especially if we could bring another in.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Massive Difference between Signing a UFA and Big Trade getting done

Agree. But we did sign Perryman before the Copeland...

 

[The Majestic]

100%. I am all about misguided optimism.

I still think Schultz could be the difference in us winning a flag.... I am exaggerating a bit, but I i rate him highly and don't think that trade was a mistake.

I honestly reckon next season we will see Schultz hit his straps and be a useful addition, he wasn't really that bad this season he wasn't a massive player but he wasn't our worst either. I think a lot of people are still caught up in the fact we traded away Ginnivan and after bringing him in. Otherwise I am sure he would have been looked at differently for the job he did do.

 

[Basil brush]

It was a massive mistake, we recruited because he wanted to come to us, not for need. Richards wants to leave because we have a surplus of small forwards. We paid a 1st and 2nd rounder for him. Had we not done that, it would have been simpler to trade for Houston or others with a top 10 pick especially if we could bring another in.

Fair enough. It is all opinions but I rate small pressure forwards. We didn't expect our injuries this season.

There is always hindsight.

Not attacking you personally to clarify.

 

[loki04]

I honestly reckon next season we will see Schultz hit his straps and be a useful addition, he wasn't really that bad this season he wasn't a massive player but he wasn't our worst either. I think a lot of people are still caught up in the fact we traded away Ginnivan and after bringing him in. Otherwise I am sure he would have been looked at differently for the job he did do.

Hopefully he cleans it up a bit, I didn't realise he fumbles so much and misses some gimme goals at times that a quality small fwd should nail.

But overall is a good addition to the side. Just a costly one.

 

[60 Yards Out]

Imo he was for us especially.

Naughton rated similar but was also a list need.

They knew about his heart condition, and there was an open worry about how it would effect his growth.
Had stated in interviews it had effected his muscle development.

The fact he's no longer at the club, is a C to B grader at best is testament to the fact the pick was wrong.

This ignores what happened in his first year. He lit up our forward line with pace and finishing skills, kicked 40-odd (?) goals and fitted a new game plan like a glove and we went within a bee’s dck of winning the flag. Can’t see his drafting as a mistake in that context.

 

[DKS17]

It was a massive mistake, we recruited because he wanted to come to us, not for need. Richards wants to leave because we have a surplus of small forwards. We paid a 1st and 2nd rounder for him. Had we not done that, it would have been simpler to trade for Houston or others with a top 10 pick especially if we could bring another in.

maybe check the boad 12 months ago and see how many were saying richards wasnt up to it and would be delisted. many were surprised at how he came on this year. assuming that level of development and skipping bringing in schultz as a result is not the simple equation your trying to make it sound like

 

[The Majestic]

Hopefully he cleans it up a bit didn't realise he fumbles so much and misses some immediate goals at times.

But overall is a good addition to the side. Just a costly one.

We really need the coaches to address that in the off-season and get him working on that. Otherwise yeah he will be good. A bit costly for sure, hopefully we can trade back into a good position.

 

[3rdMan]

It was a massive mistake, we recruited because he wanted to come to us, not for need. Richards wants to leave because we have a surplus of small forwards. We paid a 1st and 2nd rounder for him. Had we not done that, it would have been simpler to trade for Houston or others with a top 10 pick especially if we could bring another in.

We'd very likely be trading our first and F1 for Houston.

The Schultz trade locked in a best 22 player for 8+ years. A very good replacement for Elliott. We didn't give up a huge amount. A few draft spots don't usually mean anything.

 

[loki04]

This ignores what happened in his first year. He lit up our forward line with pace and finishing skills, kicked 40-odd (?) goals and fitted a new game plan like a glove and we went within a bee’s dck of winning the flag. Can’t see his drafting as a mistake in that context.

So did Jack Anthony and Ginnivan have stand alone 40 goals seasons.

He had pace and Buckley made use of it, 2019 he and that plan was quickly found out.

Went to water under physical pressure and when space was taken from him to run into uncontested.

 

[loki04]

We'd very likely be trading our first and F1 for Houston.

The Schultz trade locked in a best 22 player for 8+ years. A very good replacement for Elliott. We didn't give up a huge amount. A few draft spots don't usually mean anything.

Cmon mate they had no idea that they'd be in the Houston race when that trade was made.

They even only entered it from all reports when Carlton shit the bed with its offer.

He is not Elliotts replacement. Imo they have very different games.

 

[Jasper84]

Averaged 1.4 goals a game in less than 50%tog average (guesstimate). He’s doing something right for a guy who is apparently not up to it.

That stat is a bit misleading. Reef played 9 games, 3 as the sub, 100% of the time as a forward. In his sub games he kicked 1,1,0.

For perspective, Krueger averaged 1.2 goals this year in 7 games, one of which he was subbed out at quarter time.

 

[brysie]

And another reason to target Houston for me. He could easily play as an outside flanker/winger.

Not just a half back flanker imo.

Coaches love flexibility. Adding Houston would provide our coaches with a pool of players who are capable of playing multiple roles, either at half-back or pinch hitting in the midfield or on the wing.

Teams have sought to combat the effectiveness of influential players by tagging them, most notably outside mids (Naicos), wings (Jaicos) and half-backs (Houston). Being able to rotate a pool of players through these positions can impede their ability to neutralise one particular player, and if they elect to tag multiple players it is usually at the expense of their own offensive flexibility.

 

[Anzacday]

Was thinking to myself, if Houston was going to the blueballs we’d usually have one of their ITK posters jumping in here.
There’s a certain poster of theirs who some seem to have trusted in the past.
So I did some searching and he’s been on the Port board today…..

 

[Basil brush]

Coaches love flexibility. Adding Houston would provide our coaches with a pool of players who are capable of playing multiple roles, either at half-back or pinch hitting in the midfield or on the wing.

Teams have sought to combat the effectiveness of influential players by tagging them, most notably outside mids (Naicos), wings (Jaicos) and half-backs (Houston). Being able to rotate a pool of players through these positions can impede their ability to neutralise one particular player, and if they elect to tag multiple players it is usually at the expense of their own offensive flexibility.

Yep. You said what I wanted to say and better than I could say it.

 

[Basil brush]

Was thinking to myself, if Houston was going to the blueballs we’d usually have one of their ITK posters jumping in here.
There’s a certain poster of theirs who some seem to have trusted in the past.
So I did some searching and he’s been on the Port board today…..
View attachment 2136273

Let's hope we can believe him/her in this case.

 

[HoraceStrasbork]

He might have some difficulty re-integrating into the booming Wangaratta metropolis after 3 years of churches and tumbleweeds.

And very fine dining

 

[Jasper84]

You're right we didn't have pick #4 we had Pick #2 and traded it early.

Stephenson was just poor selection overall considering the talent around him, just as easily be Naughton who'd be an even bigger household name at Pieland.

I find it interesting that people think we will never go down the ladder every year. It's hubris.

It's not hubris. It's because historically Collingwood rarely finish near the bottom of the ladder. In the last 20 years we've finished bottom 4 only two times. End of 2020 the odds were just as likely for us to drop or rise a couple of spots, as shown by our meteoric rise back up a year later.

 

[60 Yards Out]

So did Jack Anthony and Ginnivan have stand alone 40 goals seasons.

He had pace and Buckley made use of it, 2019 he and that plan was quickly found out.

Went to water under physical pressure and when space was taken from him to run into uncontested.

I agree that he was ultimately a bust, but if we had won that flag (a coin toss in the end) he would have been an important part of the reason why.

 

[Piesinfront]

I honestly reckon next season we will see Schultz hit his straps and be a useful addition, he wasn't really that bad this season he wasn't a massive player but he wasn't our worst either. I think a lot of people are still caught up in the fact we traded away Ginnivan and after bringing him in. Otherwise I am sure he would have been looked at differently for the job he did do.

Agree - Schultz seems to have carried a disproportionate amount of the blame / dissapointment for what was an overall poor season. Simple fact is he was our 2nd highest goal kicker for the year. He did take a while to settle in and even his goal kicking became a bit erratic as I think the pressure grew. He will be much better next year and I think with his pressure game will become much more appreciated......time will tell. Ginnivan leaving was not his fault, and it was a choice by the club to let him go - it is a shame as he has undoubted talent, but he is still a little shit who puts himself ahead of his team as demonstrated by the antics around his last couple of games in this yrs finals.....probably still a good "loss".