List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade & FA 2024

[HoraceStrasbork]

Last page bickering about the hypothetical trading DeGoey dead boring, just a heads up for anyone considering flicking back.

On a more interesting note, if McDonald speculation has any legs, what’s he worth in a trade? Imagine Sydney would want next 2 years first rounders (if that mechanism comes in) - that would make me a bit gun-shy personally.

Next years first and Hawks 2024 2nd rounder and I’d pull the trigger.

Sounds like a bit too much imv.

 

[DopeMaster]

Though to immediately contradict myself, assuming we stay contending and they’re late first rounders.
Could end up being the equivalent of trading Macrae and McInnes for McDonald, which I would do in a heartbeat.

 

[DopeMaster]

He’s absolutely not Worth 2 firsts.
OOC.

So can happily park that thought.

I’d be ok with your suggestion, but with Syd 3rd coming back. Or a swap of 2nds (depending on which 2nd Syd end up with).

I’d 100% pull the trigger on that. Checkers needs a replacement over the coming years. A few years of the two overlapping would be nice.

 

[Jen2310]

Last page bickering about the hypothetical trading DeGoey dead boring, just a heads up for anyone considering flicking back.

On a more interesting note, if McDonald speculation has any legs, what’s he worth in a trade? Imagine Sydney would want next 2 years first rounders (if that mechanism comes in) - that would make me a bit gun-shy personally.

Next years first and Hawks 2024 2nd rounder and I’d pull the trigger.

Two first rounders? So the equilivant of what we paid for Bnf winner, top 5 in the brownlow, in contract in his prime dayne Beams, or what Carlton paid for Gibbs. Or what we gave for Treloar.

Maybe a first and a 2nd, with some picks coming back our way

 

[VinnieB]

not necessarily. I don't think Jordy had a tank early on in his career either. Look at him now.
Things can change with more dedication on getting fitter.

Thats true. But he doesn’t have the talent JDG had as a junior. I don’t think Reef ever played midfield in his draft years.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Though to immediately contradict myself, assuming we stay contending and they’re late first rounders.
Could end up being the equivalent of trading Macrae and McInnes for McDonald, which I would do in a heartbeat.

Only have to make the 8 and any first round becomes unbelievably speculative.

My assumption was we’d be close to that. So that means it’s something like pick 13 & 25 (hawks pick) For Logan and pick 50.

If that turns out to be pick 7 and 25 because we fall off the cliff is the risk Syd take (same as Freo took with Shooter).

Where he was drafted is irrelevant.
It’s what he projects that matters.

 

[Jen2310]

Thats true. But he doesn’t have the talent JDG had as a junior. I don’t think Reef ever played midfield in his draft years.

He played mid in school footy when given the opportunity. And excelled. Even in his draft it was said he would eventually become a big bodied, tall mid.
In his Underage year at oakleigh, obviously you had Rowell, Anderson. Even Fin had to play half forward because of the talents in the midfield at the time.
Think Reef played half back at the time.

Also you don't need talent to be the reason your tank is low. Some just take extra time for whatever reason.

 

[Bogsey]

Can I ask what is the point?
Because your original post said (and I’m paraphrasing because I CBF looking it up)
“I love jordy but I’d consider trading him for young KPP talent. Have to consider his trade value”.

So…if not discussing his trade value, what was the point that we’re all missing?

What is his trade value btw?

Yes... correct. That's what I said.
Consider his trade value. I'm so glad you asked.

For EXAMPLE If JDG worth 3 1st round picks (AGAIN, its an example), would that be enough to persuade the pies to move him?
THEN the question begs, what could the Pies get for 3 1st round picks...
AND what we get for them, would they be worth what JDG provides for us in the next 5 years?

Could one or two of those picks get us a significant KPP (intentionally not named as I don't wish to argue which one is/will be better) or maybe a 1st and our second...
Could we turn it into future picks...
Or multiple second round picks, as we have one of the oldest playing list.

This is what the process of considering trade/market value.

 

[Big Bryza]

The thing is I think he’s cooked physically as well as metaphorically… I wouldn’t be shocked if he has a Polec/ Hannebery career end where he just plays out a year or two beyond 2024, is then demoted to the rookie list and relagated to the “couldabeen” list. Who’s taking him and his wage on? Maybe Geelong? Perhaps Adelaide? Beyond that I can’t see a fit.

He was on track for a Bontempelli/ Pendlebury type career as recently as 2022 it’s staggering what’s happening and a fantastic insight into what a non elite lifestyle can do to a professional sportsperson.

Might have jumped the gun. He's wound the clock back tonight.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Yes... correct. That's what I said.
Consider his trade value. I'm so glad you asked.

For EXAMPLE If JDG worth 3 1st round picks (AGAIN, its an example), would that be enough to persuade the pies to move him?
THEN the question begs, what could the Pies get for 3 1st round picks...
AND what we get for them, would they be worth what JDG provides for us in the next 5 years?

Could one or two of those picks get us a significant KPP (intentionally not named as I don't wish to argue which one is/will be better) or maybe a 1st and our second...
Could we turn it into future picks...
Or multiple second round picks, as we have one of the oldest playing list.

This is what the process of considering trade/market value.

All valid points if we’re trading bits of paper.

Consider this:
How do we find his value? Only way is to ask other clubs.
I’m sure they won’t leak that to the media…which means jordy finds this out….which means he potentially is disconnected moving fwd.

Which means we spend hours answering questions about it….which means Jordy resents us a little bit.

Which means other players ask questions.
Which means players potentially wanting to come ask questions about stability and long term future.

The facets of trades extend far more to just numbers.
They are humans.

Ps. No one is worth 3 first rounds picks….especially at 28. And if they are, it’s a team in the window….which means those picks are all 13+ and extremely speculative.

So we’re back to the same problem of actively choosing the eject a too3 player who is happy for a return that is high risk.

 

[Apex36]

Thats true. But he doesn’t have the talent JDG had as a junior. I don’t think Reef ever played midfield in his draft years.

He did in his bottom age year while Rowell and Anderson were at the u18 championships and absolutely killed it. A combination of a back injury and Covid robbed him of the opportunity to do anymore of it in his draft year though.

 

[Apex36]

Might have jumped the gun. He's wound the clock back tonight.

He’s on the edge of a cliff right now and could fall either way depending on his own choices. It’s foolish to write him off at this stage, but at the same time I wouldn’t declare him as having turned the corner just because of one good game either.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

He’s on the edge of a cliff right now and could fall either way depending on his own choices. It’s foolish to write him off at this stage, but at the same time I wouldn’t declare him as having turned the corner just because of one good game either.

For what he’s on….im very much in the cliff category.

One half of one game doesn’t make a season.

 

[Apex36]

For what he’s on….im very much in the cliff category.

One half of one game doesn’t make a season.

With the contract he’s on he could very well end up Melbournes version of what Grundy is to us if they lose patience with him.
And of course with a player that talented there always the chance they turn it around after a few years, like Grundy has at Sydney.

 

[Roverjg]

Who would have thought that Franklin would leave the Hawks? Tom Boyd would leave GWS. It is possible.

What makes you say or believe that McDonald is settled there? (In Sydney).

To me McDonald has had to of been very patient (with Buddy being around previously). Maybe he now sees that Amartey will be the main man?

If we trade in Logan McDonald what is it you are hoping to get? He is tall but doesn't play as a KPF. Averages 6 kicks, 4 marks 0.7 contested marks a game and 1.33 goals per game. Ash Johnson is tall but doesnt play as a KPF. He averages 5.3 kicks with 3.3 marks, 1.15 contested marks and 1.33 goals per game

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

With the contract he’s on he could very well end up Melbournes version of what Grundy is to us if they lose patience with him.
And of course with a player that talented there always the chance they turn it around after a few years, like Grundy has at Sydney.

Happy for Melb to pay is salary whilst they work out which way it goes…..

If it doesn’t work, it’s a debilitating salary to carry.
If they offload him, they are either paying significant coin or taking a rubbish pick.

Only thing Melb can really do is back him in.
But strikes me as unlikely that he doesn’t go off the rails again in the next 6 years.

 

[Apex36]

If we trade in Logan McDonald what is it you are hoping to get? He is tall but doesn't play as a KPF. Averages 6 kicks, 4 marks 0.7 contested marks a game and 1.33 goals per game. Ash Johnson is tall but doesnt play as a KPF. He averages 5.3 kicks with 3.3 marks, 1.15 contested marks and 1.33 goals per game

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I’m not sure I agree he doesn’t play as a KPF, he’s certainly more like a KPF than AJ. Also need to take in to account he’s only 22 and is showing steady improvement as opposed to AJ who’s 26 and regressing. It’s not a particularly good comparison imo.

 

[Apex36]

Happy for Melb to pay is salary whilst they work out which way it goes…..

If it doesn’t work, it’s a debilitating salary to carry.
If they offload him, they are either paying significant coin or taking a rubbish pick.

Only thing Melb can really do is back him in.
But strikes me as unlikely that he doesn’t go off the rails again in the next 6 years.

I don’t think he’ll last as a player at Melbourne without a significant culture shift within the club, and that won’t happen while Goodwin is at the helm.

 

[Bogsey]

All valid points if we’re trading bits of paper.

Consider this:
How do we find his value? Only way is to ask other clubs.
I’m sure they won’t leak that to the media…which means jordy finds this out….which means he potentially is disconnected moving fwd.

Which means we spend hours answering questions about it….which means Jordy resents us a little bit.

Which means other players ask questions.
Which means players potentially wanting to come ask questions about stability and long term future.

The facets of trades extend far more to just numbers.
They are humans.

Ps. No one is worth 3 first rounds picks….especially at 28. And if they are, it’s a team in the window….which means those picks are all 13+ and extremely speculative.

So we’re back to the same problem of actively choosing the eject a too3 player who is happy for a return that is high risk.

There are many other ways of figuring out players values.

As I mentioned, 3 1st round picks was an example to prove what trade value means... an EXAMPLE

In recent history, we've had some sour trades (Grundy, Treloar, Stephenson, Henry, to name a few) which hasn't impacted our playing group.

And teams can find ways of trading into a higher draft position, not just bottom of each round/teams in the window that would pursue him.


Football is a business


And now, I've am not interested in trying to explain how trade and market value works any further.
I'm far too busy and lack the motivation to explain to others.

 

[JLC]

If we trade in Logan McDonald what is it you are hoping to get? He is tall but doesn't play as a KPF. Averages 6 kicks, 4 marks 0.7 contested marks a game and 1.33 goals per game. Ash Johnson is tall but doesnt play as a KPF. He averages 5.3 kicks with 3.3 marks, 1.15 contested marks and 1.33 goals per game

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's not necessarily about what he is now, it's more about what he may be in the future.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

I don’t think he’ll last as a player at Melbourne without a significant culture shift within the club, and that won’t happen while Goodwin is at the helm.

10000%

Watching him this second half, absolutely zero second efforts.
Looks slow and not interested.

My take is it’s about 80/20 he ain’t in the system in 3 years if nothing changes (either Goodwin or trade).

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

There are many other ways of figuring out players values.

As I mentioned, 3 1st round picks was an example to prove what trade value means... an EXAMPLE

In recent history, we've had some sour trades (Grundy, Treloar, Stephenson, Henry, to name a few) which hasn't impacted our playing group.

And teams can find ways of trading into a higher draft position, not just bottom of each round/teams in the window that would pursue him.


Football is a business


And now, I've am not interested in trying to explain how trade and market value works any further.
I'm far too busy and lack the motivation to explain to others.

I wish I was so busy as to not bother responding (as responding to this is literally the definition of pointless - lucky I’m just an idiot).
But since you weren’t busy enough to not start this stupid discussion in the first place….i figure you’ll find time in your busy schedule to read this.

I’ll ask you one single (two part) question.
Nice and easy.

Of all of those trades you mentioned…..
How many of them were top 3 players we didn’t want to lose and had no reason (salary cap or behaviour) to move on?

….and most importantly….

How do think we found out their eventual value?
I for one think we just went to clubs and told them what they would give us.
And none of it made the media (lucky us).

Could be wrong tho.

Edit: I apologise to everyone reading this. Def don’t want to derail this thread with stupid discussions…but I’m sure you can understand my desire to respond. Looking fwd to more relevant trade discussions. Again…apologies for prolonging your agony!!

 

[sr36]

Contracts aren't worth what they're written on.

Listen, all I said was consider his trade value... I am not speculating that we're trading him. I'm not even sold that I would want to trade him.

I don't know how else I can put it simply. As a business owner and share trader, I know that market values change all the time, and performance always changes. And like it or not, football is a business, and considering the value of your assets should be a must.

He's a final's weapon. No chance a contender is going to consider trading him out.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

He's a final's weapon. No chance a contender is going to consider trading him out.

Oh god…don’t keep this going.
I wish I’d have had that advice earlier.

 

[BEEG]

What rubbish about JDG.

I'm always open to things but our 28 year old match winner, JDG is hard to replicate with size speed skills and overall X factor gets traded while we are in a potential window.

Absolute rubbish.