List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[Chrispiesssss]

Would we need to trade for Maric?

Also, Jimmy Bartel should be looked at.

 

[MarkT2]

Grundy, Maynard, Scharenberg, Aish, Treloar, Ramsay, Wills, Phillips, Crocker, De Goey etc - pretty sure that's a rebuild. The situation with North is so incomparable it's not funny.

Unless they aren't good enough and we haven't finished.

Nothing prevents us from picking up young players again IN ADDITION TO Free Agents who will replace experience we've lost.

Why exit old players to bring in older players though? The new old players will get games ahead of the rebuild players.

Are we rebuilding or have we changed course because it didn't go so well and we now need to save Buckley? It's not like we are going to ad a few experienced players and challenge for a flag. We are nowhere near that.

 

[TheSierBear]

Would we need to trade for Maric?

Also, Jimmy Bartel should be looked at.

No club will offer Maric a trade cause that is automatically a 2 year deal I believe.
If you can trade for a 1 year contact it'll be pick 80-odd or something in that ballpark.
Almost certainly will be a DFA though. He'll only get a 1 year deal that'll cost nothing.

 

[Hagla]

Hagla, is there some symbolism in the pole, your feet and your lack of shoes?

I'm not sure Vicky, dreams can be hard to interpret. I was shocked to see my feet dangling in his face tbh, I began to wonder wtf I was doing climbing a pole in front of him anyway. I can't say I was angry with myself though, I was more just disappointed.

 

[jmac70]

Free agents are free hits and generally not long term, dont see any issues with what we are trying to do, Mayne & Wells will do and if we land WHE and or Marchbank then I look forward to 2107!

Reports suggesting that Wells has been offered two years by North and we have at least matched that offer. Rumours that we may have even offered three years (find this hard to believe).

 

[Anzacday]

We muck around with the ball in the midfield and are slow to get into our forward line.
Wells is a great mover and long kick.
Can't wait to see him kicking long to Cloke one out

 

[Bay Pie]

Weren't Tarkyn Lockyer, Shane O'Bree, Paul Medhurst, Anthony Rocca, Shane Wakelin and Presti all mainstays of our teams from 2007 to 2009, playing the majority of finals ?

But none played in a final during 2010. They really killed the development of our younger players.

 

[jmac70]

We muck around with the ball in the midfield and are slow to get into our forward line.
Wells is a great mover and long kick.
Can't wait to see him kicking long to Cloke one out

Instead he can kick it to Darcy on a lead.

 

[ant22]

I know im in the minority but I like the Mayne trade. If the contract offer is true then we are paying well over but if half is paid in the first year(with our massive cap space you would think it would be) then I have no issue with it.

People saying he offers nothing are being very harsh. You don't play that mean games in a team that has made a grand final and a couple of years later were minor premiers. Not many forwards fluke being in AA top 40 squads either.

God knows we good do with a bit more forward pressure. It has been horribly inconstant and a huge reason we concede so many goals. If he can do this and kick 30 odd goals a season he will be very valuable.

When you consider he will have some classy players in Faz, Elliott , Moore, Possibly WHE and Broomhead around him I think he would be a good fit.

 

[Seedsfan]

To those whinging about why we picking up all these old guys instead of young talent. You are being stupid.

1. They are coming for free. Henderson, Wells, Dal Santo, Mayne etc. are all free agents meaning WE DON'T HAVE TO TRADE FOR THEM.

2. You can't just lose all of your experienced players and replace them with kids. Yeah I see the argument of older guys taking places of young players in the 22 but guess what experienced players teach and guide young players and young players will work harder to force their way in not just being gifted games.

3. What quality younger players are actually on the market? JOMS knees are farked, and we are heavily interested in WHE and Marchbank. What more do you want?

We do need to use a first rounder this years draft so we can trade our first next year for another gun most likely a tall fwd. But my dream draft wpuld be Logue, one of Marshall/Kerr/Battle, Daicos and Brown.

We could also be getting Close or Freeman pff of Brisbane for Frost so theres more tall depth.

No one is free they all cost as spot on the list just like Clinton Young, Jordan Rissell and Quinten Lynch

 

[Apex36]

Has Tomlinson re-signed or just stated his intentions to stay? Just can't remember.

99% sure he re-signed with GWS a week or two ago.

No, he just publicly stated his intentions to stay. He's already contracted until the end of 2017 from memory, so there's no rush for GWS to re-sign him.

 

[ant22]

Unless they aren't good enough and we haven't finished.Why exit old players to bring in older players though? The new old players will get games ahead of the rebuild players.

Are we rebuilding or have we changed course because it didn't go so well and we now need to save Buckley? It's not like we are going to ad a few experienced players and challenge for a flag. We are nowhere near that.

Mark I can understand alot of your frustrations but I am frustrated for a different reason. I think we are not that far off it. I am frustrated because we are horribly inconsistant. I suspect this is a combination of not enough off field and on field leadership.

In 2015 we were 8 and 3 and should have been 10 and 3. We should have beaten both Hawthorn and Freo mid season who were first 2 on the ladder. We had a similar story in 2014.

In 2016 we beat GWS away. We beat Geelong, we beat west coast. These 2 will probably play off in the Grand final. We should have beaten Hawthorn and the Dogs twice. Our form against the best sides in the comp apart from the first game was very good. This is despite missing key player down back and up forward.

I don't think you can have these performances as often as we do without serious talent.

Bringing in Treloar (our best player this year) and Howe(in our top 6 or 7 this year) should have meant certain finals.

Having said all of that if we are to bring in these players I hope we fix the off field stuff up. If we can do that I think we will mix it with most if not all sides. I reckon we are in a very similar position to what Geelong where at the end of 2006. Big expectations, missed the finals and had alot of off field issues.

 

[Seedsfan]

Weren't Tarkyn Lockyer, Shane O'Bree, Paul Medhurst, Anthony Rocca, Shane Wakelin and Presti all mainstays of our teams from 2007 to 2009, playing the majority of finals ?

But none played in a final during 2010. They really killed the development of our younger players.

There is a big difference, they were already at the club. All the kids we drafted had to push them out. In this case the kids are playing now and we want to pick up 3-4 players 28+ to take games off them

 

[magpies2013]

just been told some info maybe crap maybe not.
Jong/Whe-club has gone cold.
Maric-likely to stay at Richmond in a playing/assistant coach role.
Marchbank-club very keen but blues favorite
Wells-club keen but likely to stay at roos or back to W.A and play under close mate simpson at eagles.
Dal Santo-know nothing
Mayne-will be a pie.

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

Interesting.

Round 23, the Hawks had 18 premiership players, they had a bit to play for, they weren't utterly full strength but it was only Stratton and McEvoy that came in to play Friday night and that was a belter.

However, if we take our side in Round 23:

Maynard-Brown-Marsh
Smith-Howe-Phillips
Sidebottom-Trelaor-Greenwood
Goldsack-Cloke-Varcoe
De Goey-White-Blair
Grundy-Pendlebury-Crisp
Aish-Williams-Wills-Crocker

Replace the italics players with a combo of best 22 players who were injured, plus Wells (and thats it), we're looking at this:

Maynard-Marsh-Ramsay
Sinclair-Reid-Howe
Sidebottom-Treloar-Wells
Elliott-Moore-Varcoe
De Goey-White-Fasolo
Grundy-Pendlebury-Crisp
Aish-Adams-Wills-Crocker

Now I fear we'll be a bit more active than just adding Wells in losing Cloke, Witts, Williams and Brown, but do we need to?

That second 22, with a depth possibly including Goldsack, Blair, Smith, Greenwood, Scharenberg, Frost, Keefe, Landgon, possibly Maric, I think that only another shocking year of injuries can prevent us making the finals.

 

[nahnah]

Interesting.

Round 23, the Hawks had 18 premiership players, they had a bit to play for, they weren't utterly full strength but it was only Stratton and McEvoy that came in to play Friday night and that was a belter.

However, if we take our side in Round 23:

Maynard-Brown-Marsh
Smith-Howe-Phillips
Sidebottom-Trelaor-Greenwood
Goldsack-Cloke-Varcoe
De Goey-White-Blair
Grundy-Pendlebury-Crisp
Aish-Williams-Wills-Crocker

Replace the italics players with a combo of best 22 players who were injured, plus Wells (and thats it), we're looking at this:

Maynard-Marsh-Ramsay
Sinclair-Reid-Howe
Sidebottom-Treloar-Wells
Elliott-Moore-Varcoe
De Goey-White-Fasolo
Grundy-Pendlebury-Crisp
Aish-Adams-Wills-Crocker

Now I fear we'll be a bit more active than just adding Wells in losing Cloke, Witts, Williams and Brown, but do we need to?

That second 22, with a depth possibly including Goldsack, Blair, Smith, Greenwood, Scharenberg, Frost, Keefe, Landgon, possibly Maric, I think that only another shocking year of injuries can prevent us making the finals.

If Crocker is in our best 22 I'm certain we need another older player

 

[MarkT2]

Mark I can understand alot of your frustrations but I am frustrated for a different reason. I think we are not that far off it. I am frustrated because we are horribly inconsistant. I suspect this is a combination of not enough off field and on field leadership.

In 2015 we were 8 and 3 and should have been 10 and 3. We should have beaten both Hawthorn and Freo mid season who were first 2 on the ladder. We had a similar story in 2014.

In 2016 we beat GWS away. We beat Geelong, we beat west coast. These 2 will probably play off in the Grand final. We should have beaten Hawthorn and the Dogs twice. Our form against the best sides in the comp apart from the first game was very good. This is despite missing key player down back and up forward.

I don't think you can have these performances as often as we do without serious talent.

Bringing in Treloar (our best player this year) and Howe(in our top 6 or 7 this year) should have meant certain finals.

Having said all of that if we are to bring in these players I hope we fix the off field stuff up. If we can do that I think we will mix it with most if not all sides. I reckon we are in a very similar position to what Geelong where at the end of 2006. Big expectations, missed the finals and had alot of off field issues.

The draw makes 8-3 type stats misleading. North were 9-0 this year. Richmond came home like a train a few years ago. They were both misleading results. We do not have enough talent to get near a flag right now. Not even remotely. We lack pace and footskills to a degree that can only be addressed by player turnover and time.

List quality aside, we still haven't got any real indication that the coach is up to it tactically or that he can get performance from a group of players. If the player recruitment talk is accurate then we are doing what we should have done in 2013 not now that time and personality issues have decimated the list. We have 1 option right now and that is to draft well for 2-3 years but we have already traded out our first round pick.

 

[MarkT2]

you'll get 1 very good/ elite season out of him and 1 season which is injury prone. When he's on he'd take the Pies to another level in the Midfield though

At best the level he took North to.

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

If Crocker is in our best 22 I'm certain we need another older player

You're probably right, chances are we're looking at:

Maynard-Marsh-Ramsay
Sinclair-Reid-Howe
Sidebottom-Treloar-Wells
Elliott-Moore-Varcoe
De Goey-White-Fasolo
Grundy-Pendlebury-Crisp
Aish-Adams-Wills-Mayne

 

[ant22]

The draw makes 8-3 type stats misleading. North were 9-0 this year. Richmond came home like a train a few years ago. They were both misleading results. We do not have enough talent to get near a flag right now. Not even remotely. We lack pace and footskills to a degree that can only be addressed by player turnover and time.

List quality aside, we still haven't got any real indication that the coach is up to it tactically or that he can get performance from a group of players. If the player recruitment talk is accurate then we are doing what we should have done in 2013 not now that time and personality clashes have decimated the list. we have 1 option right now and that is to draft well for 2-3 years but we have already traded out our first round pick.

Mark we were clearly the better side against Hawthorn last year when they were red hot and we were arguably the better side against freo when they were on top of the ladder and played them in perth.

I reckon sides can fluke 1 or 2 really good performances against good opposition but we have had to many in the last few years for me not to think we have serious talent.

The blokes that have missed alot of footy this year in Scharenberg, Elliott, Faz and Moore all have great foot skills. Ramsey has decent footskills as well.

I think your over rating the sides above us. I just dont think there are any great sides at the moment. Now this may change with GWS over the next year or 2.

 

[Lockyer24]

I agree the sides above aren't that far away from us. We are underachievers though. Wells UFA or RFA?

 

[adammania9]

I love Levi Greenwood and am thankful for his season (which was very underrated IMO - exceptional tagger) but with the emergence of Wills in the back few weeks of the season, I'd trow him on the trade block if he didn't want to be on the fringe. I'd imagine his value may have fallen slightly since his trade for pick #25 a couple of years back, i.e. 35-45?

 

[Chrispiesssss]

This might be a bit presumptuous, but I think Geelong MIGHT have some cap issues.
Geelong: Jimmy Bartel (UFA), Tom Lonergan (UFA), Corey Enright (UFA), Rhys Stanley, Lincoln McCarthy, Daniel Menzel, Josh Cowan, Mitch Clark, Nathan Vardy, Michael Luxford, Tom Read, Shane Kersten, Padraig Lucy, Zach Bates, Cameron Delaney, Jock Cornell, James Parsons, Tom Ruggles

All out of contract at the end of this year.
I think we could strong-arm a few of these players. I wouldn't mind Bartel, Ruggles, Vardy, Menzel, McCarthy, Stanley or Cowan. I feel like they could all play a role within our team.

 

[Matz]

just been told some info maybe crap maybe not.
Jong/Whe-club has gone cold.
Maric-likely to stay at Richmond in a playing/assistant coach role.
Marchbank-club very keen but blues favorite
Wells-club keen but likely to stay at roos or back to W.A and play under close mate simpson at eagles.
Dal Santo-know nothing
Mayne-will be a pie.

So sounds like we are going from getting everyone to getting no one.
Hahaha I am going to put the hard word on Derek hine at tonight's member forum!

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PieNSauce]

The draw makes 8-3 type stats misleading. North were 9-0 this year. Richmond came home like a train a few years ago. They were both misleading results. We do not have enough talent to get near a flag right now. Not even remotely. We lack pace and footskills to a degree that can only be addressed by player turnover and time.

List quality aside, we still haven't got any real indication that the coach is up to it tactically or that he can get performance from a group of players. If the player recruitment talk is accurate then we are doing what we should have done in 2013 not now that time and personality issues have decimated the list. We have 1 option right now and that is to draft well for 2-3 years but we have already traded out our first round pick.

To me that's where this discussion gets difficult because I'm totally on board with ant22. From what I see, we certainly do have a few fairly raw kids but given a reasonable run with injuries and a bit more consistency then I have no doubt we have the quality to be very competitive in finals. The sort of thing that's been concerning me is when I hear guys like James Aish suggesting that they didn't fully understand their role in the side early. Once he did, the difference was incredible. I couldn't believe I was even watching the same player. The same could possibly even apply to Grundy IMO. Now extend that scenario to a few other young players and it's possible to see how 2017 could be very different. My feeling is that a few wise old heads around the place can only help that along. Interesting times IMO.