Strategy Collingwood's Best 22 2015

[Knightmare]

At first with the news Ben Reid was going to play as a defender I was disappointed, but the more I've been thinking about it the more excited with what we might line up with.

What I'd go with is this.

B: Ben Reid ~ Nathan Brown ~ Marley Williams
HB: Paul Seedsman ~ Lachlan Keeffe ~ Tom Langdon

M: Travis Varcoe ~ Taylor Adams ~ Steele Sidebottom

HF: Dane Swan ~ Travis Cloke ~ Tim Broomhead
F: Jarrod Witts ~ Darcy Moore ~ Jamie Elliott

R: Brodie Grundy ~ Levi Greenwood ~ Scott Pendlebury

I/C: Alan Toovey ~ Nathan Freeman ~ Ben Kennedy
Sub: Jordan De Goey *Sub to be rotated

The talk is Moore will be played back and Keeffe forward. So it's going to be ugly.

I imagine our preferred team will look something like (to give a perspective of where guys may sit at the selection table):
B: Tyson Goldsack Nathan Brown Alan Toovey
HB: Ben Sinclair Ben Reid Marley Williams
CEN: Clinton Young Steele Sidebottom Travis Varcoe
HF: Alex Fasolo Jesse White Tim Broomhead
F: Jamie Elliott Travis Cloke Patrick Karnezis
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Scott Pendlebury Dane Swan
BENCH: Levi Greenwood Jarrod Witts Taylor Adams Jack Crisp
In the mix: Jarryd Blair Brent Macaffer Tom Langdon Lachlan Keeffe Jack Frost Nathan Freeman Ben Kennedy Matthew Scharenberg
*Some changes I see in our plans - I feel that Crisp will pass Macaffer by in the pecking order, not that Macaffer is healthy, but I get the sense we are high on Crisp with his height, pace and tackling energy and will find room for him in our best team rotating between the front half and midfield and as required playing him in run with roles. Blair I hope but also expect gets passed by with the addition of Greenwood and the improvement of Adams through the midfield then the likes of Broomhead, Fasolo and an improved Karnezis to pass him by as forwards. Reid will play back as Nathan has suggested through the media and Keeffe forward, though I imagine White would be favoured to Keeffe once we see how poor Keeffe is in the front half. Sinclair I wouldn't be at all surprised to see play ahead of Langdon and Seedsman, though it will make me sick to watch.

It's for me a nightmare team for me in the sense that a number of these guys I hope don't see any senior footy, but I can't help but think that Nathan has his favourites and will play his favourites as per my above team over the more talented youth we having coming through.

-----

As for how in my view we should line up (assumed fully healthy):
B: Marley Williams Jack Frost Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon Lachlan Keeffe Matthew Scharenberg
CEN: Clinton Young Steele Sidebottom Travis Varcoe
HF: Alex Fasolo Travis Cloke Tim Broomhead
F: Jamie Elliott Ben Reid Darcy Moore
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Scott Pendlebury Dane Swan
BENCH: Jordan De Goey Jarrod Witts Paul Seedsman Nathan Freeman
Deserve to be in the mix but outside my best 22: Brayden Maynard Patrick Karnezis Taylor Adams Levi Greenwood Ben Kennedy Nathan Brown Tyson Goldsack
*Note - given Scharenberg's ACL I would in the interim have Seedsman on the back flank with Maynard as the injury replacement for Scharenberg coming off the bench.

Regarding the differences in how my team would line up. I'd completely rule White, Sinclair, Blair and Macaffer out from playing senior footy. White can't take a grab and does not have adequate ability to even rotate through the front half as such a low volume goalkicker and mark, I'd personally play him at VFL level as a key defender with that more where with his physical profile and athleticism where he would if anything have his best chance of making it. Sinclair still cannot kick and with Williams in that back half as another generate backman who can't kick, that is more than enough. Blair forward and through the midfield is less productive than the other options and that's not going to change. Then Macaffer as a tagger I wasn't overly impressed with and for me I'd peg simply as a jack of all trades but master of none.

Of those in the mix. Goldsack gives great tackling energy and offers versatility, he'll obviously play as part of the leadership group and as someone so highly regarded internally but simply put there are younger guys I'd much rather play. Keeffe and Frost I see as having surpassed Brown and if they both played key defence at AFL level from the start of the season I feel they'd both run away with those key defence posts and create some real separation in that discussion of who should be played down back. Kennedy is good enough to play but I favour other options with a few more tricks. Greenwood really broke out this year and racked up the footy but my concern is his footskills, he has among the worst footskills of any of the midfielders in the game, I've had enough of that through the midfield. Adams is in the same category as Greenwood, he is working is butt off and can rack it up through the midfield but again he just isn't good enough by foot and as such I'd favour some other guys first. Karnezis I'm high on and feel he should be on the edge of selection, you'd play him ahead of Moore if you want to win games in 2015, but I have him just outside the best 22 as I place a higher priority on Moore at AFL level receiving opportunities in the front half to fast-track his development. Then Maynard I like and would without hesitation play as someone who can fit into the team and hold down a position in the back half.

Langdon and Scharenberg I see as the back flankers assuming full health as guys who can take some intercept marks to compliment the more ground level Williams and the more negating Frost and Toovey. Young and Varcoe I feel on the wings are guys who must both be played given their ability to penetrate through kicking and running respectively, it's a missing ingredient that is needed in today's game and we have no young guys who are suitable alternatives, with Seedsman someone else I'd play in addition to those guys both off a back flank and on the wing as required.
Up front I love Fasolo, Broomhead and Elliott as a group with their talent. Reid and Cloke is a terrific combination that works perfectly, and Cloke at CHF will work better as has proven to be the case in the past.
Then De Goey and Freeman I want to see games go into as terrific talents. De Goey could be that starting forward pocket and I'd certainly be using him in the front half early and often, then Freeman through the midfield has the right mix of talent with his pace, footskills and size and ball winning ability and he will just need that senior exposure to get the most possible out of his game. With Grundy and Witts both must plays through the ruck with periods rotating forward.

Overall I just see it as the right mix. There is overall great pace, footskills and height overall. There is versatility whereby a Reid or Moore if required could switch back, and a great number of guys forward and back who could also rotate through the midfield. It feels like the best of all worlds, not carrying a bunch of guys who are one position players and can't kick and getting games into the most talented youth which as a team that is re-tooling is needed.

 

[Prestige Presti]

-----

As for how in my view we should line up (assumed fully healthy):
B: Marley Williams Jack Frost Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon Lachlan Keeffe Matthew Scharenberg
CEN: Clinton Young Steele Sidebottom Travis Varcoe
HF: Alex Fasolo Travis Cloke Tim Broomhead
F: Jamie Elliott Ben Reid Darcy Moore
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Scott Pendlebury Dane Swan
BENCH: Jordan De Goey Jarrod Witts Paul Seedsman Nathan Freeman
Deserve to be in the mix but outside my best 22: Brayden Maynard Patrick Karnezis Taylor Adams Levi Greenwood Ben Kennedy Nathan Brown Tyson Goldsack
*Note - given Scharenberg's ACL I would in the interim have Seedsman on the back flank with Maynard as the injury replacement for Scharenberg coming off the bench.

Don't mind your team KM, but I do think you've sold our inside mids a bit short. Taylor Adams and Greenwood can't kick, but i think they'll be absolutely crucial for us this season, especially in the absence of Beams, Ball and now that Swan's on the decline, our best inside ball winners of the past few years. We got creamed this past season at center bounces and stoppages, but if Greenwood and Adams continue to improve on last season, they could potentially make a huge difference in that area, and as you mentioned in your first team, i couldn't imagine them not being best 22. Bucks keeps going on about winning the contested ball and those two in particular will thrive in the contest, thus why they're at the club. Getting that inside ball out to the likes of Pendles and Swan will be instrumental, Josh Thomas was brought up this week by Bucks as another alternative, assuming he gets back to 2013 form that could be a likely alternative.

And considering what we spent on getting both to the club, i'd be terribly disappointed if they weren't best 22 at seasons end.

In saying that, i'm struggling to see who i'd take out of your team to make way, especially considering you want to be getting experience into De Goey and Freeman early.
Assuming we can stay fit and healthy, It'll be a bloody tough gig being a member of the match committee this year.

 

[Collingwood42]

With so much young talent coming through, it's players like Dwyer, Sinclair, Young, Thomas, White and Blair who will need to step up another gear, or risk losing their spots and purely becoming depth.

I personally wouldn't have any of them in the best 22, and think it's more important we give the experience to our young guys like Freeman, DeGoey, Kennedy, Moore, Maynard and Scharanberg.

These are they guys who will make us a force once again.

We even have Crisp, Karnezis, Gault, Keeffe and Marsh pushing for selection.

Our first 5 games are all winnable and then we play Geelong, who we generally play well against.

Hopefully we get a good start to the year giving these young guys the confidence and belief in themselves.

FB: Toovey Brown Langdon
HB: Williams Frost Reid
M: Swan Levi Sidey
R: Grundy Pendles Adams
HF: Elliott Cloke Broomy
FF: Fasolo Moore Witts

B: Goldsack Varcoe Seedsman
Sub: Freeman

Emg: Keeffe Crisp DeGoey Maynard

 

[jackcass]

FB: Williams, Brown, Keeffe
HB: Toovey, Reid, Sinclair
C: Varcoe, Adams, Sidebottom
HF: Broomhead, Cloke, Goldsack
FF: Elliot, White, Grundy
Fol: Witts, Greenwood, Pendlebury
Int: Young, Thomas, Swan
Sub: Fasolo**

**Based on pre season hype Freeman could be the sub, however considering we have only seen 20 minutes of footy from him it's hard to give him a spot right now.

That's getting close for mine, Young, White and Thomas out for Frost, Blair and Kennedy (sub), Fasolo into the starting 21.

With Keeffe apparently going forward in 2015, Frost to take the 3rd tall defender spot although Reid probably the 1 to be freed up to play the psuedo Maxwell role. Can't play all of Cloke, White, Keeffe, Grundy in the F50 so White or Keeffe to miss, I've opted for White out.

White, Crisp & maybe Thomas for emergencies.

Still prefer to see some NAB footy before committing 100%.

 

[jackcass]

I think:
Frost > Brown

Reid > Brown

Keeffe = Brown

EFA

 

[jackcass]

If we need a key tall back to play on the likes of Franklin or perhaps Tippett or even Hawkins, Kennedy, Daniher etc. I'd send Frost to them before Brown every time. He did very well against some terrific forwards in what was his first full year in the AFL. Was wrapped with him & I expect we will see continual improvement from him this year & in the coming years when he becomes more experienced.

While I agree that Frost was great last year and that he's a fantastic prospect, I think people forget just how effective Brown was prior to the shoulder. He to has an impressive record against many of these key forwards and has first dibs. It will be interesting to see if the selectors opt to try and squeeze all of Frost, Brown and Reid into D50 with Keeffe apparently going forward. Not that different to a Brown, Reid, Maxwell combo in terms of size and mobility.

 

[Knightmare]

Don't mind your team KM, but I do think you've sold our inside mids a bit short. Taylor Adams and Greenwood can't kick, but i think they'll be absolutely crucial for us this season, especially in the absence of Beams, Ball and now that Swan's on the decline, our best inside ball winners of the past few years. We got creamed this past season at center bounces and stoppages, but if Greenwood and Adams continue to improve on last season, they could potentially make a huge difference in that area, and as you mentioned in your first team, i couldn't imagine them not being best 22. Bucks keeps going on about winning the contested ball and those two in particular will thrive in the contest, thus why they're at the club. Getting that inside ball out to the likes of Pendles and Swan will be instrumental, Josh Thomas was brought up this week by Bucks as another alternative, assuming he gets back to 2013 form that could be a likely alternative.

And considering what we spent on getting both to the club, i'd be terribly disappointed if they weren't best 22 at seasons end.

In saying that, i'm struggling to see who i'd take out of your team to make way, especially considering you want to be getting experience into De Goey and Freeman early.
Assuming we can stay fit and healthy, It'll be a bloody tough gig being a member of the match committee this year.

I firmly expect most will agree with you on both Adams and Greenwood. They can both win the footy and Adams particularly has from all reports put in over the preseason.

Why I don't see those guys as completely necessary to winning is the versatility of others and their ability to go through the midfield. Outside of Pendlebury, Swan and Sidebottom who in the above team I propose as the primary midfielders. All of Williams, Scharenberg, Langdon, Elliott, Broomhead, De Goey and Freeman, and if Maynard is in the senior team, that whole group can play at least minutes pinch hitting on the ball. You would be right to point out that it would not contain as much inside grunt as a team containing Adams and Greenwood, but through the midfield with these guys getting so much of the ball my priority is more firmly placed on getting better users of the footy through the midfield to allow for the best possibly delivery into the forward half and a more diverse rotation of midfielders who can mix it up after every goal going through there as per the Hawthorn midfield.

Josh Thomas isn't a great kick either but his problems are less bad than Greenwood and Adams. The thing with all those guys is they are all midfielders only as guys who struggle in other positions and don't have the footskills to be relied on. The further issue with Thomas who I feel is in the league of Greenwood and Adams when talking purely inside game and contested ball winning is athletically and more specifically with his endurance, he really struggles to cover the ground, he is smart and can make up for that but in a transition running game he will get exploited too easily. I'd generally on a good team want these guys in my depth stocks rather than in my best team, but that's just my personal preference based on the things I see as more useful to winning.

De Goey I'm really firm on playing from the start. He is a guy who will improve quickly and has a strong enough body to go at AFL level. He can play some minor minutes through the midfield, win some ball and bring some tackling energy and use it reasonably well but does have endurance limitations and as such would play mostly forward. He is very strong overhead for a medium sizer and that's his major weapon but then he will also provide some tackling pressure, use it well but then also provide some scoreboard impact. He has the versatility if required to play where we need him, so overall I like what he offers from the get go.

On Freeman he would in my proposed team play mostly on the ball through the midfield with the occasional stint on a forward flank. He has the right mix of acceleration, endurance, but then also excellent size and strength and he is a terrifically efficient kick. He can also win some contested ball, though that can improve. But overall with that mix of attributes I like what he offers and he further improves that overall pace/transition running/skill level of the team which in the AFL team is something we need.

It's all an interesting dilemma this year with the best 22 anyway with not as much top end talent and a weak top 10 and top 15 overall, but great depth and lots of options in those 16-35 spots. And it's based on this concept of the evenness of the list that overall I'd be pushing a youth theme because they're performance overall will be much the same as what the older guys are doing and they'll in a year or two pass them by as players with more and better rounded talent.

 

[jmac70]

I hope we are fielding this side by round 22:

B: Williams Brown Toovey
HB: Langdon Reid Scharenberg
C: Varcoe Pendlebury Sidebottom
HB: Broomhead Moore Grundy
FF: Fasolo Cloke Elliott
Foll: Witts Adams Greenwood
Int: Swan De Goey Seedsman Freeman

 

[TheTigerEffect]

Seedsman definitely best 22 guys and gals?

 

[Ketchup]

Seedsman definitely best 22 guys and gals?

I would say no, but I'm in the minority of this board with that opinion.

 

[yeee_haaaa!!!!!]

toovey brown frost
williams reid langdon
greenwood swan sidebottom
elliott cloke thomas
goldsack white kennedy
witts pendlebury adams
int: seedsman young crisp broomhead

on the fringes - blair dwyer fasolo grundy keefe sinclair varcoe macaffer when fit, ramsay oxley karnezis armstrong gault

plus 4 top 10 draft picks - freeman, de goey, moore, scharenberg when fit, all of whom could have some impact this year

a few comments -

i expect seedsman and thomas to go thru the roof in 2015. both had pre-seasons destroyed by injury last year but still had some impact late in the year. been in the system a few years now, expect both to really step up

a fit brown and reid would make a world of difference down back, plus toovey had his injury worries last year. get those 3 having a good season injury wise, and they are the backbone of a pretty good defence. williams to be given license to run off half back, will step up another level

jack crisp is a a very talented footballer. a genuine wildcard in our pack

this is an extremely talented list. there are so called experts tipping the pies to tumble in 2015. they have got no idea. this list is a certainty to play finals, injuries permitting. can easily finish 4-7

 

[Bay Pie]

No matter where we put players I believe this is our weakest 22 on paper for 15 years. I could find a team from 04/05 that would look bette on paper.

So if Bucks coaches this years group to more wins and/or better ladder position then those piss poor years, you'll cease the Bucks hate because he would've achieved a better result with a worse team?

 

[jackcass]

Seedsman definitely best 22 guys and gals?

Needs to overcome this hip issue and re-stake his claim I think. Has shown the potential but 2014 wasn't a progression from 2013 largely due to the hip and disrupted pre-season, get the body right and we might see him take that next step.

 

[jackcass]

I hope we are fielding this side by round 22:

B: Williams Brown Toovey
HB: Langdon Reid Scharenberg
C: Varcoe Pendlebury Sidebottom
HB: Broomhead Moore Grundy
FF: Fasolo Cloke Elliott
Foll: Witts Adams Greenwood
Int: Swan De Goey Seedsman Freeman

I know it's semantics but shuffle Cloke (CHF), Grundy/Witts (FF) and Moore (3rd tall) for my liking. Scharenberg may be optimistic but you never know, maybe he Seedsman and Maynard fighting for that HBF spot.

 

[mike123]

The talk is Moore will be played back and Keeffe forward. So it's going to be ugly.

I think with Keeffe its flexibility and the club wants to be able to put forward and back. With Moore I hope once the season is under way we move up forward.

Just because they are training there now doesn't mean things can change.

 

[mike123]

Seedsman definitely best 22 guys and gals?

For mine his speed and skills are essential for the backline and the transition game Bucks has been talking about.

 

[noideaatall]

Look 4 posts up

Apologies, missed your wise post.

 

[Collingwood42]

I hope we are fielding this side by round 22:

B: Williams Brown Toovey
HB: Langdon Reid Scharenberg
C: Varcoe Pendlebury Sidebottom
HB: Broomhead Moore Grundy
FF: Fasolo Cloke Elliott
Foll: Witts Adams Greenwood
Int: Swan De Goey Seedsman Freeman

Yeah that's pretty much spot on to what I'm hoping for too. Just have Pendlebury roving and put Greenwood in the centre.

 

[Robroy22]

Williams Brown Toovey (or Frost....but can't have both of them back there)
Langdon Reid Maynard (till Scharenburg's right to go)
Freeman Adams Varcoe
Elliot Grundy Karnesis
Broomhead Cloke Fasolo

Witts Pendlebury Sidebottom

Swan, Kennedy, Greenwood, Keefe or Goldsack play sub (if we have to play a sub....worst rule ever)

 

[PepperFace]

The talk is Moore will be played back and Keeffe forward. So it's going to be ugly.

I imagine our preferred team will look something like (to give a perspective of where guys may sit at the selection table):
B: Tyson Goldsack Nathan Brown Alan Toovey
HB: Ben Sinclair Ben Reid Marley Williams
CEN: Clinton Young Steele Sidebottom Travis Varcoe
HF: Alex Fasolo Jesse White Tim Broomhead
F: Jamie Elliott Travis Cloke Patrick Karnezis
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Scott Pendlebury Dane Swan
BENCH: Levi Greenwood Jarrod Witts Taylor Adams Jack Crisp
In the mix: Jarryd Blair Brent Macaffer Tom Langdon Lachlan Keeffe Jack Frost Nathan Freeman Ben Kennedy Matthew Scharenberg
*Some changes I see in our plans - I feel that Crisp will pass Macaffer by in the pecking order, not that Macaffer is healthy, but I get the sense we are high on Crisp with his height, pace and tackling energy and will find room for him in our best team rotating between the front half and midfield and as required playing him in run with roles. Blair I hope but also expect gets passed by with the addition of Greenwood and the improvement of Adams through the midfield then the likes of Broomhead, Fasolo and an improved Karnezis to pass him by as forwards. Reid will play back as Nathan has suggested through the media and Keeffe forward, though I imagine White would be favoured to Keeffe once we see how poor Keeffe is in the front half. Sinclair I wouldn't be at all surprised to see play ahead of Langdon and Seedsman, though it will make me sick to watch.

It's for me a nightmare team for me in the sense that a number of these guys I hope don't see any senior footy, but I can't help but think that Nathan has his favourites and will play his favourites as per my above team over the more talented youth we having coming through.

-----

As for how in my view we should line up (assumed fully healthy):
B: Marley Williams Jack Frost Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon Lachlan Keeffe Matthew Scharenberg
CEN: Clinton Young Steele Sidebottom Travis Varcoe
HF: Alex Fasolo Travis Cloke Tim Broomhead
F: Jamie Elliott Ben Reid Darcy Moore
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Scott Pendlebury Dane Swan
BENCH: Jordan De Goey Jarrod Witts Paul Seedsman Nathan Freeman
Deserve to be in the mix but outside my best 22: Brayden Maynard Patrick Karnezis Taylor Adams Levi Greenwood Ben Kennedy Nathan Brown Tyson Goldsack
*Note - given Scharenberg's ACL I would in the interim have Seedsman on the back flank with Maynard as the injury replacement for Scharenberg coming off the bench.

Regarding the differences in how my team would line up. I'd completely rule White, Sinclair, Blair and Macaffer out from playing senior footy. White can't take a grab and does not have adequate ability to even rotate through the front half as such a low volume goalkicker and mark, I'd personally play him at VFL level as a key defender with that more where with his physical profile and athleticism where he would if anything have his best chance of making it. Sinclair still cannot kick and with Williams in that back half as another generate backman who can't kick, that is more than enough. Blair forward and through the midfield is less productive than the other options and that's not going to change. Then Macaffer as a tagger I wasn't overly impressed with and for me I'd peg simply as a jack of all trades but master of none.

Of those in the mix. Goldsack gives great tackling energy and offers versatility, he'll obviously play as part of the leadership group and as someone so highly regarded internally but simply put there are younger guys I'd much rather play. Keeffe and Frost I see as having surpassed Brown and if they both played key defence at AFL level from the start of the season I feel they'd both run away with those key defence posts and create some real separation in that discussion of who should be played down back. Kennedy is good enough to play but I favour other options with a few more tricks. Greenwood really broke out this year and racked up the footy but my concern is his footskills, he has among the worst footskills of any of the midfielders in the game, I've had enough of that through the midfield. Adams is in the same category as Greenwood, he is working is butt off and can rack it up through the midfield but again he just isn't good enough by foot and as such I'd favour some other guys first. Karnezis I'm high on and feel he should be on the edge of selection, you'd play him ahead of Moore if you want to win games in 2015, but I have him just outside the best 22 as I place a higher priority on Moore at AFL level receiving opportunities in the front half to fast-track his development. Then Maynard I like and would without hesitation play as someone who can fit into the team and hold down a position in the back half.

Langdon and Scharenberg I see as the back flankers assuming full health as guys who can take some intercept marks to compliment the more ground level Williams and the more negating Frost and Toovey. Young and Varcoe I feel on the wings are guys who must both be played given their ability to penetrate through kicking and running respectively, it's a missing ingredient that is needed in today's game and we have no young guys who are suitable alternatives, with Seedsman someone else I'd play in addition to those guys both off a back flank and on the wing as required.
Up front I love Fasolo, Broomhead and Elliott as a group with their talent. Reid and Cloke is a terrific combination that works perfectly, and Cloke at CHF will work better as has proven to be the case in the past.
Then De Goey and Freeman I want to see games go into as terrific talents. De Goey could be that starting forward pocket and I'd certainly be using him in the front half early and often, then Freeman through the midfield has the right mix of talent with his pace, footskills and size and ball winning ability and he will just need that senior exposure to get the most possible out of his game. With Grundy and Witts both must plays through the ruck with periods rotating forward.

Overall I just see it as the right mix. There is overall great pace, footskills and height overall. There is versatility whereby a Reid or Moore if required could switch back, and a great number of guys forward and back who could also rotate through the midfield. It feels like the best of all worlds, not carrying a bunch of guys who are one position players and can't kick and getting games into the most talented youth which as a team that is re-tooling is needed.

Agree with pretty much all of this. We are on the same page re: Nathan Brown, Goldsack, Macaffer, Sinclair and White. Cant agree with Moore in the team though. I feel its pretty vital to get at least 2 months into him at VFL level first. And i dont mind if he was played down back for development......this doesnt worry me at all....in fact i think it would be crucial in him being a really good forward

 

[PieNelso]

Brown and Greenwood are and should be locks. I definitely don't think Keefey has passed him. As for Greenwood, he was top 5 at a top 4 team and he is not in our best 22? Come on!

 

[NT.Thunder]

There's a lot of guys that need to show consistency before I'm willing to lock them in best 22. I'd rather know what I'm getting each week than witnessing the highs and lows of 20 years of football in one season that can happen. Last year was as inconsistent as I've seen us for some time and it's exhausting not knowing which team is turning up week after next.

Guys like Seedsman, Sinclair, Thomas, Fasolo and Blair really need to show consistent performances over a run of games or we blood others like Maynard and DeGoey.

If Tom Langdon isn't one of the first picked, I'd be devastated. He was invaluable last year to us and for a first year player he really excelled beyond expectations. Backing up 2nd year can be tough, but surely he gets every opportunity.

 

[PepperFace]

Brown and Greenwood are and should be locks. I definitely don't think Keefey has passed him. As for Greenwood, he was top 5 at a top 4 team and he is not in our best 22? Come on!

Agree with Greenwood. Cant see how Brown is a lock. Kicks the ball up and under every time and for a big guy is terrible 1 on 1. He cant live off his 2010 grand final appearances forever

 

[BEEG]

Toovey Brown Frost
Langdon Reid Williams

Sidebottom Adams Greenwood

Varcoe Cloke Broomhead
Elliot Witts White

Grundy Pendlebury Swan

Goldsack Freeman Thomas

Sub Fasolo


Young isn't fit but I would have him in over Toovey

PK might be an option instead of going in with two Rucks White can 2nd ruck

Thomas has a month to prove he is best 22 if he isn't play Crisp or Degoey

Would like to play Seedsman but for who?

 

[Knightmare]

Seedsman definitely best 22 guys and gals?

I'd like to see him in there but not a lock. Could be in and out.

Agree with pretty much all of this. We are on the same page re: Nathan Brown, Goldsack, Macaffer, Sinclair and White. Cant agree with Moore in the team though. I feel its pretty vital to get at least 2 months into him at VFL level first. And i dont mind if he was played down back for development......this doesnt worry me at all....in fact i think it would be crucial in him being a really good forward

With Moore it depends on what your objective is.

If the team wants to win a premiership next year and that is the all in objective I'd be playing Karnezis instead in the front half and rotating up the field as someone who will play stronger football next year.

Purely for development I like the quality key forwards in the team as early as possible. If you look at the stats of all those key forwards who play early: Joe Daniher, Tom Lynch (GC), Jeremy Cameron, Lance Franklin, Jarryd Roughead, Travis Cloke, Matthew Pavlich, Nick Riewoldt. They're not season one performers but if you look at that improvement the following years, those guys have all improved rapidly, season to season.

I also see that consistency of position to be critical for key position players. Daniel Merrett, Leigh Brown, Brent Staker, Lachlan Hansen. You can't throw those kinds of guys around and each time they moved around they seem to take a step back and really struggle to play their best footy and it's only when they've had that consistency of role that they've played their best footy. About the only guy who has seamlessly changed position without any issues in recent times is Matthew Pavlich.

Collingwood based on what Nathan has said to the media/online to fans is suggesting the opposite approach which is starting him back (with no if any deadline to move him forward) and there isn't any indication he'll play at all season one, but most probably he doesn't given he is expected to play back and there are too many more advanced options for him to see any senior opportunities.
Just the lack of senior exposure but then the lack of consistency will both slow down his potential for development. And it's not like he doesn't know how to play back, he did it most of last year. So I don't personally see it as necessary learning when guys like Jeremy Cameron/Lance Franklin/Nick Riewoldt/Travis Cloke and the vast majority of those great forwards have never played back.


--

Ketchup it's an interesting comment regarding Greenwood's inconsistent ball drop.

The stats suggest according to the AFL prospectus that Greenwood is the second worst of the 200 most frequent kicks of the footy and his ability to hit inside 50 targets was incredibly poor. Given he is that bad and in his mid 20s it's hard to see his footskills improving. It's just hard to carry someone that extremely bad by foot through the midfield, unless it's Marley Williams who I feel would in that inside ball winning role be a more dominant Greenwood with a few other tricks.