List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

Quick links:
Player contract status
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings

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Latest news and rumours:

• Tom Barrass officially requests trade to Hawthorn
  • Duffield: Eagles want two first round picks - "It may have to be in this year’s draft rather than a future pick."
  • Morris: Josh Battle is set to join Barrass at Hawthorn in 2025 - Ralph: Unclear if Hawks will pay enough for Band 1

• Kysaiah Pickett interested in a trade
  • "Club and management are confident they can work through his concerns"
  • Daniels: Pickett’s preference is Fremantle. Fremantle are keen, but Bolton the priority. Getting both “not impossible”. West Coast “an option if things get complicated.”

• Jai Culley, Coen Livingstone, Loch Rawlinson in line for one-year deals (The West)
  
  
• Liam Baker and Shai Bolton
  29

  Shai Bolton

  Age

  25

  Ht

  176cm

  Wt

  77kg

  Pos.

  M/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  12.3

  3star

  K

  6.9

  3star

  HB

  5.4

  4star

  M

  2.8

  3star

  T

  2.9

  4star

  CL

  1.4

  4star

  D

  12.7

  3star

  K

  9.2

  4star

  HB

  3.5

  2star

  M

  3.0

  3star

  T

  2.7

  4star

  CL

  1.8

  4star

  D

  9.2

  3star

  K

  4.6

  2star

  HB

  4.6

  4star

  M

  2.0

  3star

  T

  2.6

  4star

  CL

  0.0

  1star

  officially request trades to WA
  • Daniels: Bolton is Fremantle’s priority

 

[eaglevision]

Would have been worth a little something something last year, not so much any more.

Yep. With a fit Ashcroft x 2 next year I reckon the Lions would bite our hand off to get his contract off the books for a R5 pick.

 

[kane249]

Yep. With a fit Ashcroft x 2 next year I reckon the Lions would bite our hand off to get his contract off the books for a R5 pick.

Will be a good pick up for the Beagles

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

With a reasonably healthy list ATM and the mid season draft being held between rounds 11 ad 12, we have 2 players likely to still be in recovery. That being Oscar sue back in 6 to 7 weeks (ie round 12) and Hewett post post (ie best case round 15).

The main arguments for taking a pick are two fold

1. Is there the right player we want and hence get ahead of the draft as we did with Culley and Maric
2. Do you take away hope for a player in rehab wanting to get back before the end of the season.

No way is Oscar missing action - a club does not put their captain in that situation.

Hewett is an interesting one. He has extended his contract so no drama and will be told the club loves him. The only risk is if we have everyone else available and Hewett cannot even play WAFL if he is put to the LTI list and there are no other injuries keeping a player out

Something about the last 3 years that makes me think - "no LTI players, that is not going to happen".

Without real insights into Hewett's injury and recovery, it will not be a simple discussion. I would not want to stop Hewett playing late in the year and can only assume we will have other injuries, or are prepared to go to someone like Gaff and ask him to be have an extended holiday and reinvent himself so that Hewett can play. A little disrespectful but there again this is business.

Looking at the age profile per position, I would probably look to a KPD or a fast and small lock down defender. I say that in thinking that our R1 pick this year will be again pointy end and that is where there are some excellent midfielders. Plus I always give a bit more leniency to talls as they can take longer to mature. The other thing to find out is whether we see Barnett as a ruck or a KPP. I was unsure when we drafted him and if we see him more as a KPP, then maybe we go a ruck.

Our list is full with 39 on the senior list, 5 rookies and 2 CAT B

Here is my updated position by age - I have shifted Jamieson to the KPD category.

 

[Obeanie1]

With a reasonably healthy list ATM and the mid season draft being held between rounds 11 ad 12, we have 2 players likely to still be in recovery. That being Oscar sue back in 6 to 7 weeks (ie round 12) and Hewett post post (ie best case round 15).

The main arguments for taking a pick are two fold

1. Is there the right player we want and hence get ahead of the draft as we did with Culley and Maric
2. Do you take away hope for a player in rehab wanting to get back before the end of the season.

No way is Oscar missing action - a club does not put their captain in that situation.

Hewett is an interesting one. He has extended his contract so no drama and will be told the club loves him. The only risk is if we have everyone else available and Hewett cannot even play WAFL if he is put to the LTI list and there are no other injuries keeping a player out

Something about the last 3 years that makes me think - "no LTI players, that is not going to happen".

Without real insights into Hewett's injury and recovery, it will not be a simple discussion. I would not want to stop Hewett playing late in the year and can only assume we will have other injuries, or are prepared to go to someone like Gaff and ask him to be have an extended holiday and reinvent himself so that Hewett can play. A little disrespectful but there again this is business.

Looking at the age profile per position, I would probably look to a KPD or a fast and small lock down defender. I say that in thinking that our R1 pick this year will be again pointy end and that is where there are some excellent midfielders. Plus I always give a bit more leniency to talls as they can take longer to mature. The other thing to find out is whether we see Barnett as a ruck or a KPP. I was unsure when we drafted him and if we see him more as a KPP, then maybe we go a ruck.

Our list is full with 39 on the senior list, 5 rookies and 2 CAT B

Here is my updated position by age - I have shifted Jamieson to the KPD category.

View attachment 1961247

Is it that important or wise to use a mid season pick when we need to free up spots for draft picks and potential FA's or trades?

I wont be surprised if we dont take anyone in the MSD.

 

[CountryLad]

With a reasonably healthy list ATM and the mid season draft being held between rounds 11 ad 12, we have 2 players likely to still be in recovery. That being Oscar sue back in 6 to 7 weeks (ie round 12) and Hewett post post (ie best case round 15).

The main arguments for taking a pick are two fold

1. Is there the right player we want and hence get ahead of the draft as we did with Culley and Maric
2. Do you take away hope for a player in rehab wanting to get back before the end of the season.

No way is Oscar missing action - a club does not put their captain in that situation.

Hewett is an interesting one. He has extended his contract so no drama and will be told the club loves him. The only risk is if we have everyone else available and Hewett cannot even play WAFL if he is put to the LTI list and there are no other injuries keeping a player out

Something about the last 3 years that makes me think - "no LTI players, that is not going to happen".

Without real insights into Hewett's injury and recovery, it will not be a simple discussion. I would not want to stop Hewett playing late in the year and can only assume we will have other injuries, or are prepared to go to someone like Gaff and ask him to be have an extended holiday and reinvent himself so that Hewett can play. A little disrespectful but there again this is business.

Looking at the age profile per position, I would probably look to a KPD or a fast and small lock down defender. I say that in thinking that our R1 pick this year will be again pointy end and that is where there are some excellent midfielders. Plus I always give a bit more leniency to talls as they can take longer to mature. The other thing to find out is whether we see Barnett as a ruck or a KPP. I was unsure when we drafted him and if we see him more as a KPP, then maybe we go a ruck.

Our list is full with 39 on the senior list, 5 rookies and 2 CAT B

Here is my updated position by age - I have shifted Jamieson to the KPD category.

View attachment 1961247

Good chart there mate. Just three points ATG.

I’d personally put Burgiel in the general defenders, whilst he could be a mid I think the club views him as a running half back.

The second is Culley, I reckon the club is looking at him being a forward rather than an inside mid currently.

The third is Ryan and whether he transitions into a running half back too. Liked the look of him in the Beagles game playing that role.

Will be an interesting watch on all three players as the year unfolds to see where they play most of there footy and how that affects the above chart.

 

[Tugga27]

With a reasonably healthy list ATM and the mid season draft being held between rounds 11 ad 12, we have 2 players likely to still be in recovery. That being Oscar sue back in 6 to 7 weeks (ie round 12) and Hewett post post (ie best case round 15).

The main arguments for taking a pick are two fold

1. Is there the right player we want and hence get ahead of the draft as we did with Culley and Maric
2. Do you take away hope for a player in rehab wanting to get back before the end of the season.

No way is Oscar missing action - a club does not put their captain in that situation.

Hewett is an interesting one. He has extended his contract so no drama and will be told the club loves him. The only risk is if we have everyone else available and Hewett cannot even play WAFL if he is put to the LTI list and there are no other injuries keeping a player out

Something about the last 3 years that makes me think - "no LTI players, that is not going to happen".

Without real insights into Hewett's injury and recovery, it will not be a simple discussion. I would not want to stop Hewett playing late in the year and can only assume we will have other injuries, or are prepared to go to someone like Gaff and ask him to be have an extended holiday and reinvent himself so that Hewett can play. A little disrespectful but there again this is business.

Looking at the age profile per position, I would probably look to a KPD or a fast and small lock down defender. I say that in thinking that our R1 pick this year will be again pointy end and that is where there are some excellent midfielders. Plus I always give a bit more leniency to talls as they can take longer to mature. The other thing to find out is whether we see Barnett as a ruck or a KPP. I was unsure when we drafted him and if we see him more as a KPP, then maybe we go a ruck.

Our list is full with 39 on the senior list, 5 rookies and 2 CAT B

Here is my updated position by age - I have shifted Jamieson to the KPD category.

View attachment 1961247

Could Gaff be talked into retirement?
Would that open up a spot?

 

[Lia]

Is treating a club champion like that advisable when we have just drafted the golden boy from Victoria and want to become a destination club again?

I don't know the answer.

 

[Tugga27]

Is treating a club champion like that advisable when we have just drafted the golden boy from Victoria and want to become a destination club again?

I don't know the answer.

Not suggesting pushing him out.

No drama's if he wants to go on.

But if he realises there isn't much chance of getting back, he may be up to making the call to open up a spot for us.

It must be hard for him to keep going around in the Magoo's.

I remember a Richmond player doing it a few years ago.

 

[DanWCE]

Is treating a club champion like that advisable when we have just drafted the golden boy from Victoria and want to become a destination club again?

I don't know the answer.

From all reports Gaff has conducted himself in an exemplary manner and is leading as much as he can in the WAFL. I think pushing him into retirement would be particularly short sighted. We made our bed with him, now we lie in it and make the best of it, as it seems he has also agreed to do.

 

[DanWCE]

Not suggesting pushing him out.

No drama's if he wants to go on.

But if he realises there isn't much chance of getting back, he may be up to making the call to open up a spot for us.

It must be hard for him to keep going around in the Magoo's.

I remember a Richmond player doing it a few years ago.

If he sat down with Simmo to discuss the reality of getting back in the side because he no longer had the passion to lead the youth in the 2s, I could see an amicable parting of the ways. But I couldn't see us initiating retirement conversations to generate a list spot.

 

[JackOutback]

Is it that important or wise to use a mid season pick when we need to free up spots for draft picks and potential FA's or trades?

I wont be surprised if we dont take anyone in the MSD.

And if the pick is three or four, rather than one, would we even want to. There's often one or two good prospects that didn't get drafted and improve substantially, rarely three or four.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Is it that important or wise to use a mid season pick when we need to free up spots for draft picks and potential FA's or trades?

I wont be surprised if we dont take anyone in the MSD.

Read my early line

"1. Is there the right player we want and hence get ahead of the draft as we did with Culley and Maric"

My post was about whether we have an open spot and possibly how one might open up.

For the record, we have a new list manager. He was part of a team that aggressively went after mid season draftees. Richmond were also strong on looking at players with a known defect but in the list with the right surrounds and role, they worked.

I have no appetite for a list clogger, but I am fine in going for a 19 year old ruck or KPD that was not coordinated enough in his draft year but has now found their feet.

Yeo, Allen, Duggan are out of contract but no close to being delisted/retire

Those out of contract at the end of this year that are in danger of being delisted
Gaff
Luke Edwards
Witherden
Trew (R)
Jones
Jack Williams
Rotham
Baker
Burgiel
Livingstone (Cat B)
Dewar (Cat B)
Rawlings (R) - very much doubt based on what we have seen

So that is 11 players that face an interesting 2024.

I can see 5 that I would probably see off our list come November.

• Gaff, L Edwards and Witherden struggle with leg speed while Rotham struggles to think fast enough so not crap himself (not the case on Sunday and I hope he proves me wrong).
• Loving the speed Jones plays at but his turnovers will kill us and he will soon be a list clogger unless he can get composure.
• Baker will need to show something this year now he is no longer Cat B

As much as I loved the pick of Burgiel, I am now concerned as to whether his body can stand up to AFL durability

That is then 5 draftees (4 at ND and 1 mid season) and 1 FA.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Good chart there mate. Just three points ATG.

I’d personally put Burgiel in the general defenders, whilst he could be a mid I think the club views him as a running half back.

The second is Culley, I reckon the club is looking at him being a forward rather than an inside mid currently.

The third is Ryan and whether he transitions into a running half back too. Liked the look of him in the Beagles game playing that role.

Will be an interesting watch on all three players as the year unfolds to see where they play most of there footy and how that affects the above chart.

Fair call on all three counts. My only change since late last year was to move Jamieson.

With Burgiel, he is a utility. I deleted that column as it felt like a cop out. He did play a chunk of football as a running HBF and with you as him that being where he may settle.

Culley was always a forward/mid and with the influx of quality mids and the fact that Jai is slow, I am thinking more forward. Would that then shift Maric to defence? Time will tell.

Ryan - I will keep calling him a forward until he has played 6 games at the senior level off the HBF.

I also called Chesser an outside mid and I am now thinking the running HBF and wing roles probably needing to be merged.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I can see the conversation with Gaff and retirement very respectful.

He will be 32 this year. A very typical retirement age.

I expect him to keep trying his guts out at WAFL and putting in good numbers. Hell, I expect Simmo will also need to give him a run in the seniors before the bye.

Discussions can be along the line of what does 2025 look like. He is on a massive salary and based on merit, that would have to be not much more that $200k which is more insulting than offering him a respectful exit. I expect Gaff is very level headed and understand both parties have kept their end of the bargain on what was a long contract extension in 2018.

He is durable enough and professional enough for us to offer him a development role at the club plus the Beagles captaincy. He would be a great support leading out Beagles in 2025/26. Off the main list but still impacting at the club. If he thinks someone else would pay him $300k, then let him explore.

 

[RanaNaved]

Charlie Banfield made the WA state 18s squad

 

[amazingjoshy]

Would have been worth a little something something last year, not so much any more.

And to think there were folks suggesting we pay our 2nd for him last year

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

I am going to be interested to see how many of the players who are out of contract in 2025 get an extension this year.

Melbourne have just added 4 more years to van Rooyen.

Oscar Allen

12

Oscar Allen

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.2

4star

is the obvious one but we have a hefty number out of contract then.

Remember - the salary cap increased this year by $760k (+4.8%) and 2025 is the big one going up nearly $2 mln (up 11%)

We have players on big $$ coming to an end - Gaff in 2024, Darling Kelly and Gov in 2025 (all these players are 30 or older as at 2024).

Players off contract that are on pretty decent coin but not pushing the million would include Sheed (2025), Hunt (2025).

Historically we have paid players fixed dollars and not followed the salary cap increases so I would expect the long term contracts of Barrass and Ryan to be like that. No idea what the Ginbey contract triggers would have looked like.

So expect us to be in a great position to attract Free Agents in the next 3 years

 

[amazingjoshy]

https://archive.is/PDVQK

Not any actual detail in the story so kind of pointless other than changes are coming

 

[Coasters7]

https://archive.is/PDVQK

Not any actual detail in the story so kind of pointless other than changes are coming

Ah yeah perfect. Just in time for us to miss out on all the Judds and 06 premiership FS after everyone else has rotted the system for years.

 

[Rowan18]

I am going to be interested to see how many of the players who are out of contract in 2025 get an extension this year.

Melbourne have just added 4 more years to van Rooyen.

Oscar Allen is the obvious one but we have a hefty number out of contract then.

Remember - the salary cap increased this year by $760k (+4.8%) and 2025 is the big one going up nearly $2 mln (up 11%)

We have players on big $$ coming to an end - Gaff in 2024, Darling Kelly and Gov in 2025 (all these players are 30 or older as at 2024).

Players off contract that are on pretty decent coin but not pushing the million would include Sheed (2025), Hunt (2025).

Historically we have paid players fixed dollars and not followed the salary cap increases so I would expect the long term contracts of Barrass and Ryan to be like that. No idea what the Ginbey contract triggers would have looked like.

So expect us to be in a great position to attract Free Agents in the next 3 years

What makes you think Gov is on a huge contract? His $1M per year ended last year and he is in year 1 of a 2 year contract. Sure, it won't be peanuts, but I doubt it was as big as his previous contract.

At the rate he's going, Kelly probably justifies an extension on good money. Gaff and Darling probably retire.

 

[Obeanie1]

Read my early line

"1. Is there the right player we want and hence get ahead of the draft as we did with Culley and Maric"

My post was about whether we have an open spot and possibly how one might open up.

For the record, we have a new list manager. He was part of a team that aggressively went after mid season draftees. Richmond were also strong on looking at players with a known defect but in the list with the right surrounds and role, they worked.

I have no appetite for a list clogger, but I am fine in going for a 19 year old ruck or KPD that was not coordinated enough in his draft year but has now found their feet.

Yeo, Allen, Duggan are out of contract but no close to being delisted/retire

Those out of contract at the end of this year that are in danger of being delisted
Gaff
Luke Edwards
Witherden
Trew (R)
Jones
Jack Williams
Rotham
Baker
Burgiel
Livingstone (Cat B)
Dewar (Cat B)
Rawlings (R) - very much doubt based on what we have seen

So that is 11 players that face an interesting 2024.

I can see 5 that I would probably see off our list come November.

• Gaff, L Edwards and Witherden struggle with leg speed while Rotham struggles to think fast enough so not crap himself (not the case on Sunday and I hope he proves me wrong).
• Loving the speed Jones plays at but his turnovers will kill us and he will soon be a list clogger unless he can get composure.
• Baker will need to show something this year now he is no longer Cat B

As much as I loved the pick of Burgiel, I am now concerned as to whether his body can stand up to AFL durability

That is then 5 draftees (4 at ND and 1 mid season) and 1 FA.

Burgiel won't be cut. His latest setback was appendicitis and having that taken out.

He plays the exact position we need to fix.

In regards to the new list manager and also what Pyke said about using all means to improve.

That requires list spots. And I can see us flexing that free cap space with another free agent.

Will any fringe Tigers be targets of interest? Or at the Bulldogs with Buss or a Garcia.

What would help is a couple of extra rookie spots so we can hold onto kids who need more time.

 

[Obeanie1]

https://archive.is/PDVQK

Not any actual detail in the story so kind of pointless other than changes are coming

That's great.

How about allowing bottom clubs better access to their own academies?

 

[WCE_phil]

That's great.

How about allowing bottom clubs better access to their own academies?

Old news. Academy rework will be in there for south and to the west of the nsw/mexican border

 

[Monocle]

Not quite the actual discussion, and certainly not one driven by me.

Lions fans discussing whether Robertson was smart to re-sign with the Lions, or should he have taken the longer contract on offer at West Coast.

Someone asked what he’d be worth in a trade to West Coast. Some suggested a mid second round pick. Someone else said a late third round pick. And I replied a token pick at best.

 

[Spooky17]

Old news. Academy rework will be in there for south and to the west of the nsw/mexican border

Obviously still a lot of water to cross under the bridge, but any chance we pick up Champion this year? Either rule tweak, or pick up after 40? Im hopeful, but not optimistic.