List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

Quick links:
Player contract status
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings

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Latest news and rumours:

• Tom Barrass officially requests trade to Hawthorn
  • Duffield: Eagles want two first round picks - "It may have to be in this year’s draft rather than a future pick."
  • Morris: Josh Battle is set to join Barrass at Hawthorn in 2025 - Ralph: Unclear if Hawks will pay enough for Band 1

• Kysaiah Pickett interested in a trade
  • "Club and management are confident they can work through his concerns"
  • Daniels: Pickett’s preference is Fremantle. Fremantle are keen, but Bolton the priority. Getting both “not impossible”. West Coast “an option if things get complicated.”

• Jai Culley, Coen Livingstone, Loch Rawlinson in line for one-year deals (The West)
  
  
• Liam Baker and Shai Bolton
  15

  Shai Bolton

  Age

  26

  Ht

  176cm

  Wt

  77kg

  Pos.

  M/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  12.3

  3star

  K

  6.9

  3star

  HB

  5.4

  4star

  M

  2.8

  3star

  T

  2.9

  4star

  CL

  1.4

  4star

  D

  12.7

  3star

  K

  9.2

  4star

  HB

  3.5

  2star

  M

  3.0

  3star

  T

  2.7

  4star

  CL

  1.8

  4star

  D

  9.2

  3star

  K

  4.6

  2star

  HB

  4.6

  4star

  M

  2.0

  3star

  T

  2.6

  4star

  CL

  0.0

  1star

  officially request trades to WA
  • Daniels: Bolton is Fremantle’s priority

 

[Boohemian]

We sent one of these signals up.

 

[Spooky17]

I rate English, but it just doesn’t make sense for us to go after him in my book.

- We have plenty of rucks already: Flynn, BBBW, Jamieson, Livingston and Barnett. Plus some pitch hitters like Jilliams, LEdwards or even an Archer Reid.

- Would take a huge salary, or god forbid the Bullies match and force a trade. Would take a decent first at minimum.

- Timing wouldn’t be right. English would be 27 next year, would he be past his peak when we are next contenting?

I’d like to see us continue to build through the draft, trade for younger fringe players that have potential upside (Yeo, Brockman, etc style) and FA pick ups that improve our best 22 (eg Hunt and Flynn). English would improve us for sure, but not the most effective use of the salary cap at this point of the rebuild imo.

 

[bzparkes]

I rate English, but it just doesn’t make sense for us to go after him in my book.

- We have plenty of rucks already: Flynn, BBBW, Jamieson, Livingston and Barnett. Plus some pitch hitters like Jilliams, LEdwards or even an Archer Reid.

- Would take a huge salary, or god forbid the Bullies match and force a trade. Would take a decent first at minimum.

- Timing wouldn’t be right. English would be 27 next year, would he be past his peak when we are next contenting?

I’d like to see us continue to build through the draft, trade for younger fringe players that have potential upside (Yeo, Brockman, etc style) and FA pick ups that improve our best 22 (eg Hunt and Flynn). English would improve us for sure, but not the most effective use of the salary cap at this point of the rebuild imo.

It all depends. We could front load his contract and pay him way more than dogs can, because they still need money for JUH.

Also it's unlikely they'll force a trade, especially if we end up bottom of the ladder, because he could simply refuse to sign and end up at WCE via the PSD.

What if they matched to force a trade and WCE just backed out? Highly unlikely scenario but Dog's books would be cooked if that were to happen.

 

[eaglevision]

I rate English, but it just doesn’t make sense for us to go after him in my book.

- We have plenty of rucks already: Flynn, BBBW, Jamieson, Livingston and Barnett. Plus some pitch hitters like Jilliams, LEdwards or even an Archer Reid.

- Would take a huge salary, or god forbid the Bullies match and force a trade. Would take a decent first at minimum.

- Timing wouldn’t be right. English would be 27 next year, would he be past his peak when we are next contenting?

I’d like to see us continue to build through the draft, trade for younger fringe players that have potential upside (Yeo, Brockman, etc style) and FA pick ups that improve our best 22 (eg Hunt and Flynn). English would improve us for sure, but not the most effective use of the salary cap at this point of the rebuild imo.

Couldn’t have put it better. Brought in Flynn who’s still young, negotiating to re-sign BWilliams, Barnett waiting in the wings, Jamo, JWill and even Waterman can pinch hit/cover. English is not going to be the star who wins us a flag in 5-6 years. Save the cash and front load our boys who deserve it or bring in an actual need like Taylor in 2 years when Gov retires.

 

[MrWoollie]

It all depends. We could front load his contract and pay him way more than dogs can, because they still need money for JUH.

Also it's unlikely they'll force a trade, especially if we end up bottom of the ladder, because he could simply refuse to sign and end up at WCE via the PSD.

What if they matched to force a trade and WCE just backed out? Highly unlikely scenario but Dog's books would be cooked if that were to happen.

It doesn't really matter if we can afford him and can manoeuvre payment here and there to make it difficult for the Dogs to match.
The ultimate questions are...
1) Do we need him/Is he the type of player we need to add? I'd say NO.
2) Would he be good value for money (what he adds vs. price)? I'd say NO.
3) Would we be better off chasing someone who is of more need? I'd say YES.

He may be a decent player but he's not what we need and I think we'd be better off going after a KPD or a pacy mid.

 

[Rowan18]

I rate English, but it just doesn’t make sense for us to go after him in my book.

- We have plenty of rucks already: Flynn, BBBW, Jamieson, Livingston and Barnett. Plus some pitch hitters like Jilliams, LEdwards or even an Archer Reid.

- Would take a huge salary, or god forbid the Bullies match and force a trade. Would take a decent first at minimum.

- Timing wouldn’t be right. English would be 27 next year, would he be past his peak when we are next contenting?

I’d like to see us continue to build through the draft, trade for younger fringe players that have potential upside (Yeo, Brockman, etc style) and FA pick ups that improve our best 22 (eg Hunt and Flynn). English would improve us for sure, but not the most effective use of the salary cap at this point of the rebuild imo.

Agreed. These rumours sound a lot like his manager stirring shit to try and get a big contract offer.

 

[briztoon]

It all depends. We could front load his contract and pay him way more than dogs can, because they still need money for JUH.

Also it's unlikely they'll force a trade, especially if we end up bottom of the ladder, because he could simply refuse to sign and end up at WCE via the PSD.

What if they matched to force a trade and WCE just backed out? Highly unlikely scenario but Dog's books would be cooked if that were to happen.

They probably couldn't match a heavily front loaded contract.

However, fair chance the Dogs lose Bailey Smith to Geelong end of this year, so they're likely to have some cash available.

 

[briztoon]

p.s. I really don't rate English's ability in rucking contests. Around the ground and up forward he's probably in the top two or three rucks in the competition.

 

[bzparkes]

They probably couldn't match a heavily front loaded contract.

However, fair chance the Dogs lose Bailey Smith to Geelong end of this year, so they're likely to have some cash available.

Hope they do an it's all a ploy to drive his price up by his manager.

Doesn't make sense to target Flynn, then go for English the very next off season.

It also may be that the reported interest in English came prior to picking up Flynn, which I'm hoping is the case.

 

[squashface]

Don't really see the point of paying big money for English as he will be in his 30s by the time we are properly competing again

 

[Rowan18]

p.s. I really don't rate English's ability in rucking contests. Around the ground and up forward he's probably in the top two or three rucks in the competition.

That's the crux of his problem, he's not a very good ruck. Why not replace him in your team with a forward who can perform as poorly as him in the ruck? Would come a lot cheaper.

 

[ArdentEagle]

p.s. I really don't rate English's ability in rucking contests. Around the ground and up forward he's probably in the top two or three rucks in the competition.

You're bang on - He's a midfielder who happens to be 6"10'.

 

[eaglevision]

So according to the Dogs board we’re offering English $10m over 7 years and will finish last and give up the #1 pick for him. Delusional doesn’t even scratch the surface…

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

So according to the Dogs board we’re offering English $10m over 7 years and will finish last and give up the #1 pick for him. Delusional doesn’t even scratch the surface…View attachment 1897758View attachment 1897759

Delusional. We just traded in Flynn. English doesn't fit our age profile and recent drafting.

 

[archiemoses]

We need to be creative and use the cap space to full value.

If we have a stack available I'm 2025, is there a world we we sign English as a free agent, offer him a heavily front ended contract, preferable in the first year. Then trade him in year 2 for early first rounders?

Use that excess cash to essentially generate early picks, similar to what pick purchasing could do if it came in.

 

[bzparkes]

So according to the Dogs board we’re offering English $10m over 7 years and will finish last and give up the #1 pick for him. Delusional doesn’t even scratch the surface…View attachment 1897758View attachment 1897759

Finish last and give up #1 for a bloke we could walk to the PSD and get for free?

They'd better hope we're not big into English and finish last. It'd be worst case scenario for WB.

They'd be better off hoping they themselves finish low on the ladder, don't match and get band 1 compo instead.

 

[eaglevision]

We need to be creative and use the cap space to full value.

If we have a stack available I'm 2025, is there a world we we sign English as a free agent, offer him a heavily front ended contract, preferable in the first year. Then trade him in year 2 for early first rounders?

Use that excess cash to essentially generate early picks, similar to what pick purchasing could do if it came in.

Good thought but a huge risk for a few reasons:

1. English decides he likes it here and refuses to be traded after 1st year
2. Concussion issues/injury sends his value plummeting
3. Relies on another team with the need, draft capital AND cap space
4. That team knowing we want him off the books

The only situation we should even consider getting English is giving him the smallest contract possible to trigger band 1 compo for the Dogs. In the event of this happening we would almost certainly look to trade BWilliams given they will be playing the same position and I doubt his trade value will ever be much higher than it is now. I’m a hard pass on this even in the above scenario. If we were in the flag window then that changes everything but otherwise IMO we should stick with the plan. Flynn to ruck, BWill to play and ruck in F50 and let Flynn set up a kick behind the play when both are on the ground. Leaves Barnett to continue his development hopefully showing enough to get the odd game when one of the above are injured.

 

[Phas]

Mental to think we might offer English 7 years. He'd finish that contract at almost 34. He'd probably only manage 50 games over that 7 year contract.

Chasing Grundy this year would have been better business than English next year if we wanted a top tier ruck for 2-3 years.

 

[Frederico_WA]

I rate English, but it just doesn’t make sense for us to go after him in my book.

- We have plenty of rucks already: Flynn, BBBW, Jamieson, Livingston and Barnett. Plus some pitch hitters like Jilliams, LEdwards or even an Archer Reid.

- Would take a huge salary, or god forbid the Bullies match and force a trade. Would take a decent first at minimum.

- Timing wouldn’t be right. English would be 27 next year, would he be past his peak when we are next contenting?

I’d like to see us continue to build through the draft, trade for younger fringe players that have potential upside (Yeo, Brockman, etc style) and FA pick ups that improve our best 22 (eg Hunt and Flynn). English would improve us for sure, but not the most effective use of the salary cap at this point of the rebuild imo.

I've cooled on him during the last couple months for similar reasons.

He's arguably the #1 ruck and even paired with Bont, Treloar, Libba etc yet the Dogs finished outside the 8, and lost to the mighty bottom placed WCE in round 23!

I fail to see what he would bring to us other than another period of draft pick woes.

 

[Farang83150]

Don't believe the figures and yrs being mentioned, recon it a loads of absolute BS.

 

[DanWCE]

English started last season looking a million bucks, and Baz was struggling. The appeal was obvious. But English cooled through the year and Baz went full beast mode. To that we've added Flynn.

No longer seems plausible that we'd stump up the coin for him. Beyond madness to think we'd dangle draft collateral as part of any agreement. Much of his appeal is that he's "free" in that regard.

 

[Keys]

Tim English is better than any ruckman on our list so it follows he would improve team

He’s also a (Restricted) Free Agent so presumably can be acquired without using any draft capital.

The cost of bringing him over will therefore be limited to how much salary cap space we need to use in order to agree to sign on

So how long and how much is acceptable based on the extent to which he improves the team

He turns 27 this year, so he’d being turning 32 in the year (2029) a 5 year deal would end. Any longer than 5 years would be a risk, especially considering he has had concussion issues

Money wise he’s likely to command ~$1million per year, potentially more so we could be burning in the order of $6m over 5 years

Depending on how well Flynn, and Williams, perform I’d rather be saving that money for use in other areas

History has shown a dominant ruck isn’t a prerequisite for a flag although you do need someone who can compete. I’d rather make do with Flynn than spend big on English

And if the Bulldogs match, I have no interest in trading for him

 

[TOA.]

Its rare that high quality free agents come up for us. Getting a gun without having to trade anything is a massive boost. He's not exactly what we need but if its English for free on frontloaded deal and maybe a couple of years where he is slightly cooked at the end vs nothing and "hoping" to jag some unknown FA in a couple of years, I take English. As long as we still have room to still throw money at people like Warner down the track.

English is also a unique option as Cockburn are out of the race as they can't take another ruck. Other good free agents over the next 5 years will realistically prefer Cockburn in most cases.

 

[Art OF war]

Its rare that high quality free agents come up for us. Getting a gun without having to trade anything is a massive boost. He's not exactly what we need but if its English for free on frontloaded deal and maybe a couple of years where he is slightly cooked at the end vs nothing and "hoping" to jag some unknown FA in a couple of years, I take English. As long as we still have room to still throw money at people like Warner down the track.

English is also a unique option as Cockburn are out of the race as they can't take another ruck. Other good free agents over the next 5 years will realistically prefer Cockburn in most cases.

The benefit of bringing in an AA ruck is that we protect the kids whilst they are learning and developing their bodies. Gives them confidence and hopefully they develop quicker for it.

A side benefit would be WCE have a plethora of ruckman and they are valuable trading chips.

Tim is free and we have cap to spare. Gaffs salary is off the books at the EOY, McGovern is on reduced coin, Barrass looks to be on unders, Allen is signed, Hewitt & Ginbey are signed, TK is on a modest 750k for our B&F, Harley doesn’t get paid paid for another 2 seasons.

We have the capacity to front the living sh!t out of a contract over the next 2 years which means WC still have capacity to hit more FA’s or trade targets in the coming years.

Only concern is his concussion issues. But what’s life without risk

 

[Carbine Chaos]

The benefit of bringing in an AA ruck is that we protect the kids whilst they are learning and developing their bodies. Gives them confidence and hopefully they develop quicker for it.

A side benefit would be WCE have a plethora of ruckman and they are valuable trading chips.

Tim is free and we have cap to spare. Gaffs salary is off the books at the EOY, McGovern is on reduced coin, Barrass looks to be on unders, Allen is signed, Hewitt & Ginbey are signed, TK is on a modest 750k for our B&F, Harley doesn’t get paid paid for another 2 seasons.

We have the capacity to front the living sh!t out of a contract over the next 2 years which means WC still have capacity to hit more FA’s or trade targets in the coming years.

Only concern is his concussion issues. But what’s life without risk

Bringing English to protect the kids is unnecessary given we already have Flynn and Williams to do that.

I'm sure our incumbents would love us bringing English over so they could be trading chips. It's not how we operate.

I'm open to us exploring FA options but we shouldn't bother with a ruck, nor should we limit ourselves to players from WA.