List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

What should we do with our 1st round draft pick?

  • Finn O’Sullivan

    Votes: 57 19.0%

  • Sid Draper

    Votes: 86 28.7%

  • Josh Smillie

    Votes: 22 7.3%

  • Jagga Smith

    Votes: 34 11.3%

  • Split for best mid and Tobie Travaglia

    Votes: 46 15.3%

  • Split for best mid and Liam Baker

    Votes: 20 6.7%

  • Split for best mid and best KPD

    Votes: 4 1.3%

  • Split for best two mids

    Votes: 9 3.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 13 4.3%

  • Sam Lalor

    Votes: 9 3.0%
  • Total voters
    300
  • Poll closed .

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Last edited by a moderator:
WCEConnor23 said:
We should go for English. Front end his contract while our young stars are developing and his salary shouldn't be a problem. He's arguably the best ruckman in the league that hopefully we can get 6/7 years out of (definitely in the flag window) I don't get the discussion around Flynn being a first choice ruck? yes this season he will be until we can land English or Barnett develops further. The truth is though he's not a premiership calibre ruckman, ideally he's good depth and i believe that's how the club views him long term. Due diligence will obviously have to be done on English's migraine/concussion problems, which is my only real concern
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I rather go for bailey smith. We have nobody in the 24-28 tier of decent mids.

We need a mid that can help Tim kelly
 
Realistic free agents I'd target before English, and would be a lot cheaper...

Ben Ainsworth
Isaac Cumming
Harry Perryman
Cam Zurhaar
Josh Battle
Ollie Florent (unlikely)
Will Hayward (unlikely)

I'd also throw Oleg Markov in there as a cheeky Hunt-style signing.
 
briztoon said:
On the bolded, that's all well and good, but he's very ordinary in actual rucking contests.
Click to expand...
I think his point is that actual ruck craft and ruck contests matter very little overall and the other stuff is much more valuable.

Plenty of midfields can shark a losing ruck contest and use it to their advantage.
 

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Why rising star Swan could be a million dollar midfielder sooner than you think

Fremantle great Paul Hasleby believes West Coast in particular should be eyeing off the 22-year-old.
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au

"One fascinating player in that regard is Sydney’s Chad Warner, who has become one of the game’s star midfielders in his first 60 career games.
He is contracted until the end of 2025 and will be a restricted free agent, with the East Fremantle product likely to be targeted by both West Australian clubs.
Fremantle great Paul Hasleby believes West Coast in particular should be eyeing off the 22-year-old."
 
Convocation said:

Why rising star Swan could be a million dollar midfielder sooner than you think

Fremantle great Paul Hasleby believes West Coast in particular should be eyeing off the 22-year-old.
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au

"One fascinating player in that regard is Sydney’s Chad Warner, who has become one of the game’s star midfielders in his first 60 career games.
He is contracted until the end of 2025 and will be a restricted free agent, with the East Fremantle product likely to be targeted by both West Australian clubs.
Fremantle great Paul Hasleby believes West Coast in particular should be eyeing off the 22-year-old."
Click to expand...

Paul Haselby with all the intelligence of a box of hammers

Warner was drafted in 2019 meaning he’s not eligible for free agency until 2027
 
Lets forget about players like Chad Warmer & English, we should be concentrating on the draft. When they come available if we need those types of players then we can start offering money but definitely not draft picks.
 
Keys said:
Paul Haselby with all the intelligence of a box of hammers

Warner was drafted in 2019 meaning he’s not eligible for free agency until 2027
Click to expand...

Unless Hase knows something we don’t about the next CBA.
 
WA footy mad said:
Lets forget about players like Chad Warmer & English, we should be concentrating on the draft. When they come available if we need those types of players then we can start offering money but definitely not draft picks.
Click to expand...
Yea, Sydney should have no dramas giving up Warner for nothing in the next year or so :rolleyes:

Agree, that we need to focus on the draft again this year, but in two years time if Warner is keen to return home, we need to seriously consider giving up some quality assets.

Will be 25 and potentially in the top bracket of mids in the comp. Reuben, EH, Reid, Hall + whoever we draft this year gives us such a nice base for an elite midfield. Add to that a bloke who is 4/5 years older and comes from a club with elite culture can only be a good thing.

You only need to look at our premiership squad form 2018 to realise we need to use both the draft and the trade space to build a top list.

Redden, Yeo, Cripps, JK, Jetta, Vardy were all traded in, in the years leading up to the flag.
 
WA footy mad said:
Lets forget about players like Chad Warmer & English, we should be concentrating on the draft. When they come available if we need those types of players then we can start offering money but definitely not draft picks.
Click to expand...
Not saying it's likely at all, but Chad Warner is a 22-year-old gun. The draft is still a gamble. You would absolutely give up a high draft pick for a proven draft pick in the absolute perfect age profile.

qan1sym57qo31.jpg
 
Very happy for Chad to sign with Sydney through to free agency eligibility. Then we make a play for him. Would be crazy to trade for him 2 years earlier when we’re not in a flag window when we can get him soon after at no draft cost when we actually need him in a flag push. Would be better off trading for Sheldrick with a 2R at the end of next year.
 
random260 said:
I rather go for bailey smith. We have nobody in the 24-28 tier of decent mids.

We need a mid that can help Tim kelly
Click to expand...
Not a chance Smith would consider leaving the Melbourne bubble. Pretty sure he strongly "hinted" at this in his draft year.
 

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ThePuma #9 said:
A couple of things to consider here in regards to English.

Firstly a five year deal as opposed to seven would make me feel more comfortable however rucks generally play on well into their 30's

Dean Cox played til he was 33
Aaron Sandilands til he was 36
Shane Mumford til he was 35
Ben McEvoy til he was 33
Paddy Ryder til he was 34
Todd Goldstein is 35
Max Gawn is 32

Yes 34 is a risk but it's probably only a risk for his final year at worst.


So then if we are offering a long term deal how durable is he?

Well he has had a relatively injury free career to date with

20 games in 2019
18 games in 2020
22 games in 2021
16 games in 2022
23 games in 2023

The Dogs have played a total of 118 games over these 5 years, this includes 7 finals. Tim has played 99 of them. That's a percentage of just under 84 percent. So he's at least durable.

Does he fit a need?

Yes and No.

As a pure tap ruckman probably not. We just secured Flynn and we have Bailey Williams who can play ruck along with potential prospects in Callum Jamieson, Harry Barnett and maybe Jack Williams.

First of all Bailey doesn't want to play ruck. Whether or not he can play forward we shall see but if we keep forcing Bailey to play where he doesn't want to he may very well decide to piss off back to Victoria when his contact is up. As for Callum Jamieson this year is make or break for him. If he doesn't perform in the twos he may be gone come the end of the year. So now that leaves Barnett who is nowhere near physically ready to play seniors and was always a project ruckman we knew would take a little time and big Jack who is a forward.

Our ruck stocks are not as deep as we like to believe.

Tim is also very good at covering the ground. He's a strong option to kick to, averaging over 6 marks a game in 2023 and kicking 16 goals for the year. A lot of those goals were generated by him taking a pack mark up forward. Something we definitely need more of.

As a potential recruit he is young enough to give us a good 5-6 years of service, durable enough that we could expect a decent return of games and is a clear best 22.
As for an area of need? I don't think we are deep as others do so i say yes. Particularly if you take into account his marking and goal kicking.

Now as for wanting to spend our money elsewhere, that's great but there are a few small issues with this.

No one wants to come here. Seriously. Does anyone really think we only targeted Brockman, Sweet, Flynn and Robertson? We would have approached a lot of prospects but no one wants to play for us at the moment.

Brockman wanted to come home to W.A due to family. Twins are a handful.

Flynn decided to go with us over Demons as the poor bloke has played second fiddle for most of his career and we assure him he was the first ruck for 2024.

Deven decided to stay with the Lions to chase a flag despite his position not being guaranteed, knowing all too well another Ashcroft is on the way AND us offering more years and more money than the Lions.

Sweet preferred to be second fiddle again at Port behind Soldo and they already have multiple rucks on their list.

No one wants to come and play for us!!! So then what are we to do with all the money we have? We can only front load so many contracts and even then we have to pay the minimum amount of the cap to the squad. No matter what.

Where's the money going?

Allen, TK and Barrass would be on decent deals but Gaff, Yeo, Darling, Cripps, McGovern will all be out of contract in two years. There is a chasm in our list and quite frankly we will be overpaying a lot of middling players more than they deserve just so we have a list.

I am all for throwing money at Sam Taylor to get him home or Chad Warner etc etc but both will cost draft capitol or players where as Tim English will be a free hit. How often does a club get to bring in an AA for nothing?

s**t! Our best established recruit in 38 years has been Tim Kelly and look what we had to give up to get him.

Who is next? Probably one of Jetta, Redden, Wellingham, Stenglein or Chick. We're not exactly a destination club.

Simple truth is we win more games to attract players, let alone keep the ones (H. Reid) we currently have. Money alone is not going to get the job done. Tim helps us do this.

If we can get Tim without giving away anything more than salary cap then we are ******* crazy not to do it.
Click to expand...

100% spot on.

When an opportunity comes up we need to grab them.

We arent on tbe Eastern side of the country close to 90% of where draftees come from. The flying and travel shortens careers.

And the key point you raised.

Who do we spend the cap space on in 2 to 5 years time? Over paying underperforming players is not the answer.
 
Carbine Chaos said:
Realistic free agents I'd target before English, and would be a lot cheaper...

Ben Ainsworth
Isaac Cumming
Harry Perryman
Cam Zurhaar
Josh Battle
Ollie Florent (unlikely)
Will Hayward (unlikely)

I'd also throw Oleg Markov in there as a cheeky Hunt-style signing.
Click to expand...

Parfitt from Geelong?

Fits that age gap we have and would add depth and experience.

NT boy as well. Mates with Kelly and Jamaine?
 
WA footy mad said:
Lets forget about players like Chad Warmer & English, we should be concentrating on the draft. When they come available if we need those types of players then we can start offering money but definitely not draft picks.
Click to expand...

Firstly, Id be stunned if English ended up here. Whispers were he's happy and his partner has moved East.

However, if the club could 'somehow' land him as a FA it's a no brainer.

We retain and use our top 3 pick and other picks in this years draft. Pick another gun mid (Draper say) to add to the young flock. 2024 Pick 3, Ried, Ginbey, Hewett, Chesser, Burgiel, Hough, Hall and Long.

And then add Warner! On top of English.

If we have a chance to land a Warner entering his peak you give up the picks to get him without being silly. All of a sudden that midfield starts looking scary.

2026

Duggan Barrass Hough
Burgiel Bazzo H Ried
Chesser Ginbey Draper (2024 pick 3)
Brockman Maric Long
Hewett Allen B Williams

English Warner Kelly

Bench: Flynn, Culley, Hall, Jones/Petruccelle Sub: M Champion;)

That doesn't count any 2nd or 3rd round picks used in 2023 and 24 nor any other free agency moves.

What it does say is we should be looking at a gun CHB (Busslinger / Taylor?) and a running half back. I put Ried there as we have so many big inside mids and I could see him killing it running off half back with a defensive winger covering him and raking it up. Similar to Diacos last year.
 
eaglevision said:
Very happy for Chad to sign with Sydney through to free agency eligibility. Then we make a play for him. Would be crazy to trade for him 2 years earlier when we’re not in a flag window when we can get him soon after at no draft cost when we actually need him in a flag push. Would be better off trading for Sheldrick with a 2R at the end of next year.
Click to expand...
Who’s to say we get to a flag window without making a play for a slightly more mature player? And an A grade one at that?

You don’t turn down a 23-24 year old player if that quality unless the asking price is stupid.

I would imagine most premiers at some point have given up significant draft capital to add the must have player, prior to them being in their absolute premiership window
 
Last edited:
Lyyynnnchy said:
Who’s to say we get to a fish window without making a play for a slightly more mature player? And an A grade one at that?

You don’t turn down a 23-24 year old player if that quality unless the asking price is stupid.

I would imagine most premiers at some point have given up significant draft capital to add the must have player, prior to them being in their absolute premiership window
Click to expand...
Not sure what a fish window is. On form to date and projected I’d expect the asking price to be top 3-5 pick minimum, which I would absolutely consider stupid when we’re not contending and 2 years later he’s a free agent.

Plenty of pathways to develop a premiership list. In our case I’d rather invest the draft picks in the draft, let the youth come through and when we’ve got quality FAs available take them THEN use a couple of draft picks to trade in for needs/stars in future years when we’re a contender again. Provided our injury run doesn’t repeat we have enough senior players to balance development and rest for the young guys in the meantime.
 
Obeanie1 said:
100% spot on.

When an opportunity comes up we need to grab them.

We arent on tbe Eastern side of the country close to 90% of where draftees come from. The flying and travel shortens careers.

And the key point you raised.

Who do we spend the cap space on in 2 to 5 years time? Over paying underperforming players is not the answer.
Click to expand...
And therein lies the stupidity of the whole system. Having such a high percent minimum spend forces teams to pay spuds big bucks. This actually stops the team from getting better as the available saving amount is insufficient to tempt anyone decent to join the club.

You end up with a GC situation. 3 top 6 draft picks one year and 2 the next, you get a whole bunch of top end talent (Rowell, Anderson, King etc.) coming off rookie contracts at the same time. With only the 95-100% bit of the salary cap available, to be able to pay them what they are worth in the open market you have to be losing some big (old age) contracted players or give away good players (Geelong says Hi!) for a stale pack of cheese Twisties as salary cap relief.

I am a big fan of a salary cap as an equalisation measure because the situation you get in a free market just ends up ridiculous. Think Scottish football; only two clubs have won in 40 years. And most years you know before the season starts which one of those two it will be.

Minimum spend needs to be lowered to something like 80% and the savings should be able to be rolled into future spend for say 2 or 3 years.
 
MrWoollie said:
And therein lies the stupidity of the whole system. Having such a high percent minimum spend forces teams to pay spuds big bucks. This actually stops the team from getting better as the available saving amount is insufficient to tempt anyone decent to join the club.

You end up with a GC situation. 3 top 6 draft picks one year and 2 the next, you get a whole bunch of top end talent (Rowell, Anderson, King etc.) coming off rookie contracts at the same time. With only the 95-100% bit of the salary cap available, to be able to pay them what they are worth in the open market you have to be losing some big (old age) contracted players or give away good players (Geelong says Hi!) for a stale pack of cheese Twisties as salary cap relief.

I am a big fan of a salary cap as an equalisation measure because the situation you get in a free market just ends up ridiculous. Think Scottish football; only two clubs have won in 40 years. And most years you know before the season starts which one of those two it will be.

Minimum spend needs to be lowered to something like 80% and the savings should be able to be rolled into future spend for say 2 or 3 years.
Click to expand...

Players get paid big dollars at shit clubs before they’ve earned that pay grade because the club is forced to spend money

Said players then leave spud club for successful club for unders because they want success and can afford to take a bit less because they’ve been overpaid

See Tom Lynch, Jeremy Cameron, Stephen May etc
 
random260 said:
I rather go for bailey smith. We have nobody in the 24-28 tier of decent mids.

We need a mid that can help Tim kelly
Click to expand...
Bailey Smith can run, but he’s mostly a front runner that can’t kick. Very overrated footballer IMO and would cost us far too much.

Would prefer we kept Sheed.
 
jesterwester said:
Bailey Smith can run, but he’s mostly a front runner that can’t kick. Very overrated footballer IMO and would cost us far too much.

Would prefer we kept Sheed.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the off field stuff that comes packaged with Bailey Smith also

Old mare random260 also was pushing for us to get Clayton Oliver as well, seems he has a thing for the bad boys.
 
eaglevision said:
Not sure what a fish window is. On form to date and projected I’d expect the asking price to be top 3-5 pick minimum, which I would absolutely consider stupid when we’re not contending and 2 years later he’s a free agent.

Plenty of pathways to develop a premiership list. In our case I’d rather invest the draft picks in the draft, let the youth come through and when we’ve got quality FAs available take them THEN use a couple of draft picks to trade in for needs/stars in future years when we’re a contender again. Provided our injury run doesn’t repeat we have enough senior players to balance development and rest for the young guys in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Things can change in several years time, you strike when you can. The question would be, what are the odds pick 3 ends up better than Chad Warner? The answer is probably, not likely. If you get a chance to grab someone of his quality and his age profile, you take it with both hands.
 
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