List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

The Contracts Thread

Current contract status (Updated 26/6/24) : Total 45 Players - Main List (37) Rookie List (6) Cat B (2) Contracted to 2027 (3) : Tom Barrass (8/10/95) - Signed a 5 year extension (2023-27) on an existing contract due to expire 2022 in December 2021 Reuben Ginbey (10/9/04) - Signed a 3 year...

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[Barrybran]

I'm not arguing Busslinger isn't better - I'm asking whether he's a necessity? And is DGB much older - couple years at most I'd suggest - making him what 24?

And if DGB is a 4th rounder, I'd suggest Buss is aa 3rd rounder.

And I'm with you on Baker & disappointment on here. I think k he would be a welcome addition.

Interesting - Baker's a genuine AFL player who impacts games. Yet we argue we'd rather pay a higher price for a key back (when we have truckloads) who admittedly is 5 or 6 years younger, but hasn't actually played a game.

Truckloads? We have 3 KPDs with a handful of games between them under 28yo by the end of the year. None have shown enough to suggest they can be a long term player.

21-Bazzo
24-HEdwards
25-Jamieson
28-Barrass
32-McGovern

Busslinger at 20yo who had almost his entire first year wiped out due to a shoulder reconstruction would be a crucial addition. I’d also want to take another KPD in the draft if we can generate the picks. Along with outside mids and a rebounding HBF it’s one of the most critical areas in our list turnover.

Baker would be a good addition that we can get for a reasonable price but isn't necessary. We are going to lose one AA KPD in the next 2-3 years and the other in the next 3-6 years.

KPD is arguably a greater need this off-season than another mid.

 

[eaglevision]

Baker would be a good addition that we can get for a reasonable price but isn't necessary. We are going to lose one AA KPD in the next 2-3 years and the other in the next 3-6 years.

KPD is arguably a greater need this off-season than another mid.

Yep. I’m very disappointed if the club thinks Baker is worth spending draft capital on. If we’ve committed to him (which it sounds like we have) then a player and a F2 is the absolute ceiling of what I hope we would offer otherwise no thanks. If he’s then available in the PSD then so be it.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

So why does Busslinger become an 'important' addition to have?

Because we don't have many elite ball users off the HBF .
Busslinger is not only a tall intercepting defender he is a play maker .

We are using McGovern and witherden to rebound ATM.

McGovern is old and injury prone and witherden just sucks and should be delisted .

We are crying out for quality tall defenders to replace our current ones when they leave and need quality kicking .

Baker on the other hand is small mid who relies on Agility and speed .

What happens in a couple of years when he loses it or gets injured ? We are left with just a small mid on big coin

 

[Barrybran]

Yep. I’m very disappointed if the club thinks Baker is worth spending draft capital on. If we’ve committed to him (which it sounds like we have) then a player and a F2 is the absolute ceiling of what I hope we would offer otherwise no thanks. If he’s then available in the PSD then so be it.

I don't mind it because it would be a good addition. Let's say we give up 23 & F2 for Baker and Busslinger this year. We spend pick 3 on an accumulator-type mid. What big holes are left? That's with F1 and 2x R3 & 2x R4 to use over the next two years AND without trading players out.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

What you want we get with our 1st pick.

Bo Allen is rated later 1st to 2nd round.

Nah Bo has done a number on Draiper and smillie whilst playing well himself.

His stocks are rising . Maybe even top 10

 

[eaglevision]

I don't mind it because it would be a good addition. Let's say we give up 23 & F2 for Baker and Busslinger this year. We spend pick 3 on an accumulator-type mid. What big holes are left? That's with F1 and 2x R3 & 2x R4 to use over the next two years AND without trading players out.

Future second for Buss I’d be delighted with but unless we are trading it to upgrade, pick 23 is absolutely crucial this year. There’s some excellent talent that looks to be available like Lindsay, Mraz and Bo Allan for those inclined (not me). A couple of posters have already mentioned the Baker pitfalls and he’ll be 27 by the time he plays a game for us. I can only assume it’s a 5-6 year contract on very good money which is just nuts for a 27yo player of his size and age whose primary weapons are speed and agility which are the first to go with age.

Petch and Bailey Williams will become depth players next year as the young mids (and Flynn) build their tank with the crop of FWD/rucks coming through so I have no qualms trading either of them away to facilitate pick or player upgrades.

The holes that remain would be one but probably two rebounding HBFs, outside mids/wings and another key position defender developing so they are hitting their prime with our mids.

 

[Barrybran]

Future second for Buss I’d be delighted with but unless we are trading it to upgrade, pick 23 is absolutely crucial this year. There’s some excellent talent that looks to be available like Lindsay, Mraz and Bo Allan for those inclined (not me). A couple of posters have already mentioned the Baker pitfalls and he’ll be 27 by the time he plays a game for us. I can only assume it’s a 5-6 year contract on very good money which is just nuts for a 27yo player of his size and age whose primary weapons are speed and agility which are the first to go with age.

Petch and Bailey Williams will become depth players next year as the young mids (and Flynn) build their tank with the crop of FWD/rucks coming through so I have no qualms trading either of them away to facilitate pick or player upgrades.

The holes that remain would be one but probably two rebounding HBFs, outside mids/wings and another key position defender developing so they are hitting their prime with our mids.

All players we have a good history of drafting with second / third round picks.

On face value, the Baker scenario does sound nuts but he literally fills a hole for us in terms of age profile, similar to Jayden Hunt, which is why I mentioned him. Sure, the money will be absurd but we're going to be clearing the likes of Gaff off the books this year and we'll still have cap space as Reid, Ginbey, etc come off their rookie contracts.

 

[stylish]

Baker would be a good addition that we can get for a reasonable price but isn't necessary. We are going to lose one AA KPD in the next 2-3 years and the other in the next 3-6 years.

KPD is arguably a greater need this off-season than another mid.

I'm sorry but I can't agree that a mid is of less importance than a KPD.

I take your "lose 1 AA Kpd in next 2-3 years and the other in 3-6" & raise you the fact we are likely to lose 1 AA mid this year (Gaff), another in 2-3 (Yeo) with questionmarks about the durability of Yeo and Sheed. This effectively leaves Kelly, a 10 game player (Reid), a questionmark around Chesser and a promising 2nd year player in Ginbey.

 

[TerryFilk]

What, so we can then focus on full backs?

Have you guys not learnt from NM and farming off senior players?

5 apprentices on a job isn’t same as 4 with 1 heavily experienced tradesman.

Lol, why are you acting like I’m saying get rid of every senior player? We’re in this position largely because we didn’t cash in on 1-2 veteran guys though.

You can’t rebuild a team with one first round pick every year.

 

[stylish]

Because we don't have many elite ball users off the HBF .
Busslinger is not only a tall intercepting defender he is a play maker .

We are using McGovern and witherden to rebound ATM.

McGovern is old and injury prone and witherden just sucks and should be delisted .

We are crying out for quality tall defenders to replace our current ones when they leave and need quality kicking .

Baker on the other hand is small mid who relies on Agility and speed .

What happens in a couple of years when he loses it or gets injured ? We are left with just a small mid on big coin

Then suggest WC trial Maric off half back. Tall enough and an elite ball user.

This is in no way belittling Busslinger - but the kid has not played 1 AFL match and many on here are betting the farm on him solving a lot of our woes.

 

[Barrybran]

I'm sorry but I can't agree that a mid is of less importance than a KPD.

I take your "lose 1 AA Kpd in next 2-3 years and the other in 3-6" & raise you the fact we are likely to lose 1 AA mid this year (Gaff), another in 2-3 (Yeo) with questionmarks about the durability of Yeo and Sheed. This effectively leaves Kelly, a 10 game player (Reid), a questionmark around Chesser and a promising 2nd year player in Ginbey.

As far as out list development goes, a KPD is more important than a mid.

Fast forward three years and compare the lines. Reid, Ginbey and Hewett are running through the middle supported by pick 3, Chesser, Brockman, Long, Hall, maybe Burgiel rotates through there as well. Our KPD's are Barrass and HEdwards.

Our midfield is not complete and we will likely spend our first pick this year on a player who will complement Reid, Ginbey and Hewett, but bringing in a KPD is a higher priority this off-season.

 

[stylish]

As far as out list development goes, a KPD is more important than a mid.

Fast forward three years and compare the lines. Reid, Ginbey and Hewett are running through the middle supported by pick 3, Chesser, Brockman, Long, Hall, maybe Burgiel rotates through there as well. Our KPD's are Barrass and HEdwards.

Our midfield is not complete and we will likely spend our first pick this year on a player who will complement Reid, Ginbey and Hewett, but bringing in a KPD is a higher priority this off-season.

I'm the first to acknowledge that KPD's are crucial and take longer to develop.

I'm nor against selecting one, I'm just querying the whole "we must have Busslinger" argument.

I accept that year one was a write off with a shoulder but if the kid was the second coming of the messiah, an 'elite ball user" etc that many here want to argue, he would have played this season in a team that hasn't exactly set the world on fire

 

[stylish]

Truckloads? We have 3 KPDs with a handful of games between them under 28yo by the end of the year. None have shown enough to suggest they can be a long term player.

21-Bazzo
24-HEdwards
25-Jamieson
28-Barrass
32-McGovern

Busslinger at 20yo who had almost his entire first year wiped out due to a shoulder reconstruction would be a crucial addition. I’d also want to take another KPD in the draft if we can generate the picks. Along with outside mids and a rebounding HBF it’s one of the most critical areas in our list turnover.

And Busslinger hasn't played a game and therefore hasn't showed enough to suggest "he's a player either".
And BTW - Jamieson can't be 25, he played with my eldest at North Beach in the juniors - & my eldest has just turned 23.

 

[Barrybran]

I'm the first to acknowledge that KPD's are crucial and take longer to develop.

I'm nor against selecting one, I'm just querying the whole "we must have Busslinger" argument.

I accept that year one was a write off with a shoulder but if the kid was the second coming of the messiah, an 'elite ball user" etc that many here want to argue, he would have played this season in a team that hasn't exactly set the world on fire

Busslinger isn't the only answer, no. We can draft someone at 23 instead. But we need to bring a KPD in this off-season.

 

[Patron]

I don't mind it because it would be a good addition. Let's say we give up 23 & F2 for Baker and Busslinger this year. We spend pick 3 on an accumulator-type mid. What big holes are left? That's with F1 and 2x R3 & 2x R4 to use over the next two years AND without trading players out.

1. Elite rebounding defender.
2. Wing
3. KPD
4. Secondary rebounding/medium defender

We could probably do with another developing first ruck too, there are a lot of holes on our list.

 

[Keys]

And Busslinger hasn't played a game and therefore hasn't showed enough to suggest "he's a player either".
And BTW - Jamieson can't be 25, he played with my eldest at North Beach in the juniors - & my eldest has just turned 23.

Jamieson turns 24 on 31/7

 

[Elite Pete]

We clearly paid more than we should have for brockman .

Look at what the hawks traded for d'ambrossio . Pick 61 + future 4th (Collingwood)

They held out until the last hour of trade week .

It what we should do instead of over paying every bloody time

Everyone at the time was saying we got discount on Brockman due to having pick 1 in the PSD?

 

[Elite Pete]

Never in a million years are we giving up a low 20s pick for Carroll

And I wouldn’t either.

3rd rounder happy to do it but don’t think that will be his price depending how the 2nd half of the year goes

 

[Elite Pete]

If we are seriously interested in Carroll, hopefully we use Dev Rob as a case study for our pitch, as there is certainly some similarities.

Remind him:

• He is on the fringe at Carlton.
• Hasn’t set the world on fire, more so shown glimpses.
• There are a couple of highly rated brothers coming this year.
• A highly rated father/son next year.

It’s only going to get tougher to cement a spot. He can stay and fight for a spot but it might not pay off (a trade mightn’t either, no guarantee). As we all know, Dev elected to stay and fight and it certainly isn’t paying off yet, currently two games this season after re-signing for two years.

I think if he requests a trade to us, it would be pretty easy to facilitate with Carlton, a club we have reasonable trade history with.

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Sheldrick fits in this basket too.

We will see. Not sure they are letting player go who might play in 80% of their games in a top 4 side for a pick in the 40s which might even have no points attached.

A lot to play out

 

[eaglevision]

And Busslinger hasn't played a game and therefore hasn't showed enough to suggest "he's a player either".
And BTW - Jamieson can't be 25, he played with my eldest at North Beach in the juniors - & my eldest has just turned 23.

He hasn’t had opportunity. Been playing very well in the VFL if you’ve watched his games (have you?). He’s behind mature bodies Jones (who’s had a great season) and Keath in a squad stacked with talls (JOD, Khamis and not to mention the ruck and forward that can swing back if required) when every win matters and don’t have the luxury of easing him in.

You’re right about Jamieson, he’s 24 at the end of the year and not 25 but that is of no consequence to the discussion.

 

[Bacchus]

Prepare to be dissappointed then.

Baker wont come for free. A 2nd and a fringe player is minimum IMO. Maybe a Archer Reid or Maric gets it done. Hopefully if it gets to negotiations Richmond arent as delusional as their fans on the Baker thread.

No. No, no and NO again.

One of our most valuable young players Plus our early second round pick for a 27 y.o. role player.

You are joking aren’t you. I am glad you are not the list manager.

 

[Elite Pete]

Happy if we get Baker. Would be huge get

 

[Obeanie1]

No. No, no and NO again.

One of our most valuable young players Plus our early second round pick for a 27 y.o. role player.

You are joking aren’t you. I am glad you are not the list manager.

Mate take a chill pill and a deep breath.

I never said I would support that trade value. I stated what I feel will likely be needed to get it done. And I agree 100%, I wouldnt be happy with losing Archer Reid or Maric for Baker. Even a 2nd rounder hurts.

But we just tabled an offer and traditionally we dont shaft clubs so something of value likely gets given up. Thats the reality of the situation. And we likely will be dissappointed for what we give up. Why we needed to add a 2nd pick in the 40's for Brockman last year is an example of paying overs.

So as I said, we likely end up dissappointed in what we give up. Hopefully its a Petruccelle and a future 3rd but I would be surprised if we got off that cheaply. Or Bailey.

 

[random260]

The club better be aware of our lack of KPD depth and are seeking to rectify it.

That better be a priority.

If they go meh we will deal with it next trade/draft then I'm going to be pissed.

It's literally a code red problem. The horse is almost bolted


I literally sounded the alarm in 2022.

 

[noobermensch]

This week Allan added a few moments of sublime skill to his typical physical and scrappy play round the footy. He's a raw talent, not the finished product at this stage as an onballer, but he creates chaos at stoppage with his size and competitive intensity leading to a high volume of pressure acts. He underlined his potential by kicking two goals in quick succession early in the third quarter, first swooping on a loose ball and snapping truly, and then finishing off a chain of linking, running play for WA with a long straight bomb from outside 50.