List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion - 2022 Off Season Edition

[Keys]

Contract status of all players now fully updated

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[nameless]

It might be best to provide a comprehensive guide to extrapolate on why I rate Mackenzie as arguably the best midfield prospect in this year's draft (and because I feel that the highlights on the AFL site are so deficient). So see below eight arbitrary categories that I have created for considering a midfielder draftee:

Ball winning - Congestion and stoppage extraction (8/10)
This one is hard to fully assess due to Mackenzie having an altered role from his NAB League role to his role at Champs level (with Ashcroft, Hotton, Sheezel, Tsatas, Pascu, Petric, Drury etc rotating through the Metro midfield). Simply put, Mackenzie wasn't asked to do this at the highest level this year so it wasn't what you'd call a "feature" of his game. However, Mackenzie does display a good amount of upper body strength and has an inclination to raise the ball high in a tackle to keep his arms free for the quick handball should he get tackled.
View attachment 1562225View attachment 1562321
Also, Mackenzie is very good at one-touching the ball, be it in congestion or with the ball on the ground he rarely fumbles. Due to this his ability to collect the ball below his knees is fantastic for somebody his size.

A couple of examples of Mackenzie's ability in relation to congestion and stoppages are:
1. Vic Metro v SA 2nd quarter, 7 minutes, 12 seconds to go - Ball is thrown in on the forward flank. Mackenzie takes the ball expertly whilst in the air, lands, steadies and hits the danger spot at the top of the square. This immediately results in a Drury goal for Metro.
2. Vic Metro v SA 4th quarter, 14 minutes, 5 seconds to go - Bounce in the centre square, ruckmen jostle and the ball bounces on the back end of the centre circle line. Mackenzie manoeuvres around a lunging Barnett and takes the ball cleanly (one touch) at pace. Taking only a couple of paces to balance himself and rotate himself towards the Metro goal he kicks to about 45m out where Jefferson competes in a marking contest.
3. Vic Metro v WA 1st quarter, first play of the day - the ball is bobbling and skidding on the ground. Mackenzie swoops and kicks the ball up with one-touch and kicks the ball forward under pressure.
4. Vic Metro v WA 1st quarter, 11 minutes, 20 seconds to go - Mackenzie receives the ball on the wing in transition and shrugs his hips throwing a WA player off demonstrating superior upper body strength.
5. Vic Metro v WA 4th quarter, 22 minutes, 10 seconds to go - a WA player drops the ball in a tackle. Mackenzie pounces on it, evades a WA tackler swings around and delivers perfectly to a teammate on the wing.
View attachment 1562238
6. Vic Metro v WA 3rd quarter, 15 minutes, 40 seconds to go - a loose ball is bouncing in Metro's forward 50m. Mackenzie beats three Country players there (including Hollands and Hustwaite) and spins through them with ease getting out a clean handball and setting a teammate up for a shot on goal.
View attachment 1562280
7. NAB League GF - Sandringham Dragons v Dandenong Stingrays 2nd Quarter, 2 minutes in - ball in on the forward part of the wing. Mackenzie hits the drop of the tap at pace and is able to send the ball deep inside 50 for a scoring opportunity.
View attachment 1562326View attachment 1562325

Transition to the Outside (9/10)
Whilst not being lightning quick Mackenzie has a large stride and a step of pace which helps give him the ability to create space on the peripherals of congestion. Now he does not have the top speed of Tsatas, Burgiel or Humphrey but he's better than average and, unlike Allan or Ginbey, it really is noticeable in a match. He makes opponents look slow.
View attachment 1562322

Mackenzie also has the uncanny ability to slow down time in traffic and just generally has impeccable decision making ability about both where to run and how to dispose of the ball.

1. Vic Metro v SA 4th quarter, 3 minutes to go - Clarke makes the ball on the forward flank and provides the overlapping handball to Mackenzie who had followed the play which had transitioned from SA's forward line. Mackenzie kicks around the body while being corralled and hits Hotton cleanly about 35m away. Hotton goals.
2. Vic Metro v WA 1st quarter, 2 minutes, 57 seconds to go - Mackenzie collects the loose ball on the wing breaking a lame Dewar tackle. He handballs backwards to Clarke as Dewar is pursuing him. Clarke givens back to Mackenzie (who is free due to a great shepherd from another teammate, possibly Weddle), Mackenzie shuffles back waiting for a moment for the play to develop. At this stage he is at WA's forward flank. Two players (including Jones) try to corral Mackenzie. Mackenzie gives a lovely looping handball to three free Metro teammates further ahead (due to too many WA players being drawn to Mackenzie with the ball). Not satisfied with that Mackenzie accelerates forward past Jones and gets a further handball receive and kicks long to Metro's forward flank to a legitimate two-on-two. This example reflects Mackenzie's ability to navigate well in traffic and make excellent decisions under pressure.
3. Vic Metro v Allies 2nd quarter, 5 minutes, 17 seconds in - Ball up on the wing. The ball rolls towards the centre square. Mackenzie notes that his teammate Kizan is going to be first to the ball and proceeds to break towards goal. Kizan handballs to Mackenzie who streams forward and then loops a handball over his Allies opponent to Drury for a clean i50 and a Davey goal.
View attachment 1562309View attachment 1562308
4. NAB League GF - Sandringham Dragons v Dandenong Stingrays 1st Quarter, 15 minutes and 40 second in - Mackenzie gets the clearance from a clean tap and handballs to a teammate. He follows up after his clearance and is further involved in the chain on the forward 50 running hard to remain part of the play.

Ball use (9/10)
The best ball user of the midfield contingent this year Mackenzie not only has a fantastic kicking action but, more importantly he weighs the ball to perfection. Often teammates

Now that's not to say his disposal is perfect, he is prone to the odd shank. However, in general his kicking is so sublime that hack kicks are a rarity and do not detract from his otherwise exemplary disposal. And it's not just his kicking either. His handballs are phenomenal in traffic. He often waits rather than just disposing of the ball for the game to unfold and more options to present themselves.

There are many, many examples of Mackenzie's absolutely elite ball use but here are some of the best:
1. Vic Metro v Vic Country 2nd quarter, 17 minutes, 30 seconds to go - the ball is looped from a Metro defender out of their back 50m arc. Mackenzie receives the ball accelerates forward and then loops his own handball wide to Ashcroft. Ashcroft returns him the ball with a handball over Hustwaite. Mackenzie is now streaming to the point of the centre square. He kicks what BT would describe as a "lot belter" which would barely go above two metres in the air for its whole 45m journey. Mackenzie's kick is so pin point perfect that Jefferson can't help but take the mark on his chest 40m from goal in the pocket despite Reid being only one step behind him to the fall of the ball.
View attachment 1562268
2. Vic Metro v Vic Country 2nd quarter, 3 minutes, 20 seconds to go - Mackenzie receives a handball in the back 50. Rather than simply kicking down the centre Mackenzie casts a glance laterally and goes 50m across ground to a free teammate. Metro march the ball down the field and Clarke goals.
3. Vic Metro v Vic Country 3rd quarter, 8 minutes, 10 seconds to go - Mackenzie collects a handball at the centre circle, turns and weighs a 35m kick to a teammate with the ball travelling just over the outstretched arm of Cadman and a further Country player sitting behind the Metro player. Had the kick been anything different than what it was it would've almost certainly resulted in a turnover.

For other examples check out his full games against Vic Country, the NAB League Grand Final against the Singrays and his round 10 game against the Jets in full.

Scoreboard impact (4/10)
At the Champs he had limited direct scoreboard impact (i.e. goals he kicked himself), however, he is frequently involved in score chains and with his elite disposal is the player that you want kicking the ball into your forwards.
There's no question about capacity, it seems like this year might more reflect a lack of opportunity. With the attributes he has, given the right environment I think that he will become a player who does hit the scoreboard regularly. Still you have to assess the player on what they have produced, not on what they are capable of producing. Hence the lower score for this attribute.

1. NAB League Round 10 - Sandringham Dragons v Western Jets 2nd Quarter, 9 minutes in - probably Mackenzie's best play of the year. He takes the ball cleanly off the ruck contest, arcs towards goal, handballs over his looming Jets opponent, collects the ball again, handballs forward to Ashcroft, follows the ball into the Dragons forward 50, where he receives a handball and eeks out a kick from 40m between two Jets defenders for a goal.
View attachment 1562331View attachment 1562332View attachment 1562333

2. Vic Metro v WA 3rd quarter, 8 minutes to go - Mackenzie is on a turnover chain from a Metro turnover from a WA kick out. He shows a burst of speed to accelerate away giving himself enough space to get balanced and banana around the body from 40m and sink the goal.

3. Vic Metro v Allies 2nd quarter, 6 minutes and 30 seconds in - Metro break from the centre bounce and Mackenzie is on the end of a well-weighted Ashcroft handball and bursts from the square to the forward 50m arc. He kicks long to a one-on-one in the goal square which Sheezel takes on his chest and converts.
View attachment 1562310
4. NAB League GF - Sandringham Dragons v Dandenong Stingrays 1st Quarter, 12 minutes and 20 second in - Mackenzie is in space about 40m out. He receives a quick fire handball from a teammate and curls a goal from 40m out.
5. NAB League Round 1 - Sandringham Dragons v Oakleigh Chargers 2nd Quarter, 10 minutes 20 seconds in - Mackenzie marks the ball 47m out from a Clarke kick around the body. Probably about a 40 degree angle. He swings out to open up on his right foot and sinks it from the 50m arc.

Marking (6/10)
His natural height of 188cm obviously helps in regard to his counterparts and whilst there are other midfielders who are taller (i.e. Phillipou, Hustwaite, Allan, Ginbey) and better marks than Mackenzie when called to he is happy to throw his weight around. Note that I wouldn't suggest that his marking exceeds his height (ala Hotton, Hewett, Sheezel or Konstanty whose marking ability belies their shorter statures) nor is he in any way a marking midfielder like Fyfe, Cripps or Bontempelli but he rarely loses a contest or fumbles a mark either. I will preface my analysis that Mackenzie rarely had to compete for a mark in the various games I saw. He either was causing havoc at the clearances or marking uncontested in transition.

1. Vic Metro v Allies 2nd quarter, 40 seconds in - Mackenzie competes in a one-v-one with an Allies player in a marking contest. Even though he doesn't take the mark Mackenzie recovers far quicker than his opponent and is able to collect at ground level and get the handball off.
2. NAB League Prelim Final - Sandringham Dragons v Gippsland Power - 2nd quarter 2 minutes and 40 seconds in - Mackenzie (having been involved on the back flank pushes forward for a floating kick around the body. Mackenzie climbs high over two players and takes an important grab. He immediately plays on, handballs forward to Clarke and the ball eventually ends with Sheezel who goals from the goalsquare.
View attachment 1562334

Tackling (7/10)
May not have the intensity that you see from say a Hewett, but he just sticks his tackles.

1. Vic Metro v WA 2nd quarter, 17 minutes, 55 seconds to go - Hewett pounces on the ball and Mackenzie bear hugs him immediately stopping the ball being released. Given Hewet''s strength prowess Mackenzie stops him without any difficulty.
View attachment 1562195
2. Vic Metro v WA 2nd quarter, 12 minutes, 25 seconds to go - Jones has the ball in the centre and seeks to stream down the field. He tries to step around Mackenzie (given his speed). However, Mackenzie is having none of it, pulling him to the ground and winning a free kick for holding the ball.
View attachment 1562194
3. Vic Metro v Allies 2nd quarter, 21 minutes, 20 gone - Mackenzie lays a tackle in congestion on an Allies player and dispossesses him. The ball is collected by another player that Mackenzie immediately tackles and brings to the ground.

Endurance (8/10)
I'm not sure how he tested at the Combine (or if he did test), however, Mackenzie has demonstrated no issue with maintaining a similar output and level all game. He also is a player consistently on the move and will be running forward or back with the play, regardless of whether his teammates utilise his availability.

Not really any specific examples of this. Simply watch any of his games and how he runs them out in the fourth quarter.
I know that Hollands is the benchmark here and while Mackenzie wouldn't be the equal of him on the track there's very little real difference on the field that I can see between them.

Ability to Read the Play (8/10)
As well as being a committed two-way runner Mackenzie displays an aptitude to place himself in the right space around the contest for when the ball comes out.
View attachment 1562329View attachment 1562330
(on the right) (at the back towards the umpire)

This reminds me of Shuey in his heyday when he would be very strategic about having a direct corridor to goal from the stoppage to enable him to best utilise his pace for a clearance. This is in contrast to a strong inside mid (who doesn't necessarily have to think as tactically about his placement due to the particular attributes he will be using).

Some examples:
1. Vic Metro v WA 3rd quarter, 14 minutes, 20 seconds to go - Mackenzie reads the tap in the centre circle to perfection and releases Ashcroft for an inside 50 for Metro.
2. Vic Metro v WA 3rd quarter, 11 minutes, 40 seconds to go - Mackenzie collects wonderfully off the loose ball from the ruck tap on the forward flank and kicks inside forward 50.
3. Vic Metro v WA 4th quarter, 9 minutes, 30 seconds to go - Mackenzie receives an Ollie Hotton handball from the bounce down congestion and streams with two bounces through the middle of the ground for a kick inside 50.
View attachment 1562245

And now the Eagles recruiters will have wasted my time if they don't select Mackenzie.

Hope we draft him just so this was all worth it for you.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Hope we draft him just so this was all worth it for you.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I'm off to go watch me some Mckenzie highlights for a bit of fact checking

 

[eaglespremiers]

I'm off to go watch me some Mckenzie highlights for a bit of fact checking

If you have Kayo you'll get three of the U18 games for Metro (WA, Country and SA) on there.
If you want to watch the other games, they're available here:
2022 NAB League Boys

I've obviously timestamped my notes so anyone can go and watch the actual play and form their own opinion.

 

[Dark Sharks]

anyone can go and watch the actual play and form their own opinion...

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

One good thing if we miss out on Phillipou is people wrongly saying philli”poo” not “poe”. And Ginbey with a hard G.

Unless we draft him - Matthias will always be a poo

 

[eaglespremiers]

Hope we draft him just so this was all worth it for you.

Just listened to an interview with Cam Mackenzie (about the 1hr 20min mark):
The Draft Countdown: Sunday, November 27 - AFL Exchange
He advised that he has had late interviews with Hawthorn, Geelong, St Kilda and Carlton (no mention of West Coast).
Not decisive, but still not a great indication.

 

[Keys]

Just listened to an interview with Cam Mackenzie (about the 1hr 20min mark):
The Draft Countdown: Sunday, November 27 - AFL Exchange
He advised that he has had late interviews with Hawthorn, Geelong, St Kilda and Carlton (no mention of West Coast).
Not decisive, but still not a great indication.

Campbell Chesser said last year he had no idea we were going to draft him and hadn’t spoken to us that many times

Clubs doing late interviews strikes me a bit like uni students cramming late before an exam because they hadn’t done the work earlier.

I wouldn’t read much into it despite everything pointing to us calling out Ginbey and Allan with our first two selections it would seem

 

[maverick001]

A lot of mock drafts have GWS picking up Hewett with one of their picks in the late teens. The GWS recruiting manager was on afl.com.au this afternoon saying that, as GWS are still a young developing club, they are looking for players with talent but also solid character that they can build the club around.

If there are questions over some of Hewett's off field decisions, would that effect GWS picking him up?

The afl.com.au guys were also saying something about St Kilda possibly using their first pick to take their Next Gen player who won't make it to their 2nd pick.

That's a good observation re Hewett. Based on a few other media reports, sounds like there's a very real chance Hewett gets to our third pick, with the biggest risk that Essendon trade into the teens and grab him.

Re Saints next gen player, that's Mckenzie and there seems no chance he lasts past about 12, and at least a 50% chance he's gone by Saints 1st pick anyhow

 

[maverick001]

According the The West, the draft is a lock...

They're going to look like idiots if this doesn't happen
Oh wait, they already do

 

[maverick001]

My prediction, not that it means anything and ignoring F/S bids aside from Ashcroft

1. GWS Cadman
2. Bris Ashcroft
3. NM Wardlaw
4. NM Sheezel
5. Ess Tsatas
6. GCoast Ginbey
7. Hawks Phillipou
8. Cats Humphrey
9. Eagles McKenzie
10. Saints Clark
11. Blues Hollands
12. Dogs Busslinger
13. Eagles Allan
14. Dees Jefferson
15. Swans Weddle
16. GWS George
17. Pies J.Ryan
18. Swans Cowan
19. GWS Hayes
20. GWS Hotton
21. Eagles Hewett

 

[TerryFilk]

This is my guess of what happens from pick 1 to our first 2nd rounder, hopefully I am wrong regarding our picks, this is not who I want, just what I think will eventuate

1.Cadman - GWS
2. Ashcroft - BRI (match NMK bid)
3. Wardlaw - NMK
4. Sheezel - NMK
5. Tsatas - ESS
6. Humphrey - GCS
7. Phillipou - HAW
8. Clark - GEE
9. Ginbey - WCE
10. McKenzie - STK
11. Hollands - CAR
12. Fletcher - BRI (match WBD bud)
13. Busslinger - WBD
14. Allan - WCE
15. Jefferson - MEL
16. Weddle - SYD
17. Hewett - GWS
18. Alwyn Davey

Multiple players found. Use birthday to differentiate. eg [PLAYERCARD="23/11/1962"]Joe Smith[/PLAYERCARD]

Jr - ESS (match COL bid)
19. George - COL
20. Hotton - SYD
21. Kostanty - GWS
22. Hayes - GWS
23. J.Ryan - WCE

 

[xInfected_Virus]

Personally I would be MELTING HARD if these happen.

• We take Ginbey with our first and Jefferson with our second.
• We take Allan at 9 and Jefferson with 13.
• Busslinger at 9 and Jefferson at 13.
• Taking any KPP/Ruck with our first two picks.
• Taking Hewitt at 9.

I wouldn't be happy nor disappointed if these happen.

• Take Ginbey at 9 and Allan at 13. What Twomey and other draft predictors have us taking. This maybe the most likely scenario if both of them are available.
• Take Busslinger at 9 and Ginbey at 13 or vice versa.
• Ginbey at 9 and Hewitt at 13.

I would be happy if these happen.

• Phillipou/Clark/Mackenzie at 9 and Hewitt or even Jefferson at 13.

In my dream scenario I wish these could happen.

• Mackenzie at 9, Phillipou at 13 and Hewitt at 21. But it's unlikely to happen since there's a good chance that Poo will get taken by Essendon as they need a big bodied mid and Poo fits their needs. Regarding Hewitt, I don't see him getting past Sydney or GWS picks, sure he does have some behavior issues but I'm willing to bet the Sydney and GWS back him so if we really want him then we have to take him at 13. If he's somehow gone before them then so be it.

If we want Mackenzie and the Hawks, Suns and Cats don't want him then we MUST take him at 9 because I don't see him getting past St Kilda's pick as he's their academy player and they rate him. I wouldn't be surprised if they trade up for him. If the club is really interested in Busslinger then we have to take him at 9 because he's NOT getting past Carlton and Bulldogs picks as they need KPDs especially loose intercept types. Personally we shouldn't go after Busslinger as we have enough KPDs and Busslinger is loose just like how Gov and Barrass play and we can get another lockdown type KPD in a future draft (in the third round) or hope that Bazzo and H.Edwards makes it.

Should Phillipou get past our pick 9 and he hasn't been taken yet then I can see him going to the Saints. Both the Blues and the Bulldogs have stacked midfields although the Bulldogs may see Poo as a Dunkley replacement. Personally I do not want Ginbey, so I hope the Suns or the Hawks take him. If Tsatas slides to 9 then we should say no because he seems like another Polec type player, maybe Gaff who can actually go inside. Some say Wardlaw could slide if that's the case then I'm not against taking him at 9, teams maybe put off by his hamstring issues and go home factor but with out club's retention rating I back us to take him and hopefully milk that Vic team hard if he wants to go home.

I saw Keys post suggestion of trading with the Swans. Now they're willing to trade for picks to get extra first round picks for next years draft. As he mentioned trading picks 26 and our F2 would make sense as we would have an extra pick in the first round. Would they accept it? I doubt it, they would want a future first but it be nice if they accepted the deal though or if there's a 2023 father-son prospect (a team who's willing to pay up their first rounder to gain points thus giving up their first rounder so Sydney can use) then give up ours and Port's F2 picks on the night? Should the club give up two second round picks in a strong draft to get ahead in this one? Heck we may even get their pick 42 which gets us ahead of Freo.

Regarding Jefferson, the club needs to make sure and convince the Dees that we have strong interests in him, yep we're bluffing them. Melbourne needs a key forward and Jefferson suits their needs. Do we bluff Melbourne into trading up to pick 13 for pick 14 and 37. We're likely to not do that but it would be nice having an extra pick that we can use on a KPF down the order (getting ahead of Freo as well) that can be developed or a lockdown medium defender plus we get to choose our desired player we were going to take with 13 anyways. Having a KPF to develop alongside J.Williams or a lockdown small would be nice for the Beagles and for the senior team if their development is a success.

With Allan, I don't think we should take him with two of our first picks (just pick 13) although I'm not against it either (I will melt though if we take him with pick 9). I have a feeling he may become a Petch/Brander hybrid as in Petch's pace and Brander's midfield ability which is ok but the club be better off taking him with our third or fourth picks. If he's gone by then, then so be it.


Regarding my dream draft picks.

• Mackenzie at 9
• Phillipou at 13
• Hewitt at 21
• Hotton at 26

 

[Boots73]

If we pick up 2 mids with our first 2 and it’s not Hewett,we should be trading for another pick in the teens.
He will get picked up before a pick in the twenties.
We will be stocked up nicely in the midfield when you include Culley.
Next year we target Curtain to partner Oscar Allen

12

Oscar Allen

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.2

4star

& some how Mitch Edwards who is a 205cm ruckman
both Wa boys

 

[squashface]

If we end up with at least one of Clark, Mackenzie or Hewett (I'm assuming Phillipou will not be available) at any of our picks then I will be fine with whatever else ROB throws at us

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Steely Dan is a made up name right? He’s not really in this draft pool?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Currently in the air flying down from Sydney to Melbourne for work. Will make sure look out the window of our office on occasion today and report any sightings of eagles recruiters talking to potential draft picks that may be happening on the south bank.


*note that I wouldn’t know what our recruiters (other than the pie man) or the draft picks look like (all teenagers look alike to me) so may be an issue.

 

[Obeanie1]

Exactly, yet going by this site it seems everyone one here knows more than all 18 clubs and their recruiters

Everyone?

Some saying he wont get past the Swans.

Well they may trade out 1 pick and are keen on Barnett.

Then he wont get past GWS two late picks. One may go on a bid and they are keen on a small forward.

I dont see it as a big surprised now if he slides to the 2nd round. His form wasnt great in 2022 due to covid and something off field has turned others away.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Listening to the Sydney recruiter yesterday it seems the top group is really hard to delineate in quality.

In some sense it's a matter of who slides in that top group or who surprises and goes high.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[wraglesweb]

It's game day chumps time to corral the best HBF in the country.........

 

[Farang83150]

Ginbey, Allan, someone and his brother, some else.
Unfortunately the poo's no sliding!
What time's it start?

 

[Spooky17]

 

[Spooky17]

I’m fine with Ginbey and Allan in isolation, but both are high risk high reward type players in the sense of making it as really top line midfielders.

I’d prefer a Clark/McKenzie type as one of our picks tonight, to go along with one of the aforementioned players.

 

[30stm3891]

Pick 9 and 13....

 

[Farang83150]

I’m fine with Ginbey and Allan in isolation, but both are high risk high reward type players in the sense of making it as really top line midfielders.

I’d prefer a Clark/McKenzie type as one of our picks tonight, to go along with one of the aforementioned players.

Allan's speed would be nice off a HBF as well