List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Monsterdarlz]

All of our successful rebuilds we have had strong leaders from previous generations.
2000,2001 Jacko, Macintosh, McKenna, Kemp
2008-2010 Glass, Cox, Embley
Now: Shuey, Gaff, Gov, Kennedy

In my opinion it’s important to have good senior leadership around the club playing staff wise as you transition sides. Yeah they might not be the champions of the game they once where but there knowledge, professionalism and experience plays a vital part in teaching the next generation

 

[briztoon]

I have a solid idea of Hawthorn's exposed players. Will Hawthorn be ahead of us in two years' time? yes. Hawthorn will be older and more experienced than West Coast, certainly on the field. That will give them some immediate upside but it's irrelevant to your statement.

You said West Coast will be in Hawthorn's current position in two years (bottom 3). The reality is we're in the same position as Hawthorn now, the reason why we're in the same position as the Hawks? because they piss-farted around for four years pretending they weren't going backwards while West Coast had a rebuild fast-forwarded two years running due to injuries.

In two years, West Coast will simultaneously be fielding a team with more players with 50 games or less than Hawthorn is today & playing with more players with experience of 100 games or more. We'll be younger but our youth will have more games experience, on top of that we'll have more experienced talent. It's irrelevant to speculate on West Coasts' setup in two years' time, but the setup will include more experience than Hawthorn currently has.

A few obvious things, Day is a first-year midfielder/ bean pole, Newcombe's size is more important than anything else, while Worpel is slowly being sidelined by Mitchell because he's poor. If I was building a list id get KP talent, then inside midfielders, then outside mids/ flankers. The Hawks are doing it backwards.

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there.

When I said WCE will be in the same position as Hawthorn, I didn’t mean your list will be in exactly the same situation.

I did mean that WCE will more than likely be at the bottom of your rebuild, with quite a few of your premiership heroes just recently retired, you’ll have a lot of kids in your best 22 and your kids will still be to young to be playing consistently good enough to start your climb up the ladder.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

We'll be worse than we are now because the players that have been consistently sidelined with injuries for three years straight will have retired.

Cool

 

[Nuffington Post]

Retirees this season
Injury forced Career ending that no other club will bother.
Nic Nat
Shuey
Gov
Cripps

Age
Hurn
Gaff

These 2 Yeo & Ryan are ones to keep eyes on with their injuries too.

This is even before we get into the dead wood wafl players. Clark, West & co.

We got money packed end of the year Gaiz. Who we buying?

Our issue is we can only really go after free agents (eg English) or those that don’t require a heavy trade compensation (Dev, Sharp). We want to keep our first round picks as we’re not really at the point in the list cycle where we are topping up for a crack at a flag.


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[Goroyals22]

All of our successful rebuilds we have had strong leaders from previous generations.
2000,2001 Jacko, Macintosh, McKenna, Kemp
2008-2010 Glass, Cox, Embley
Now: Shuey, Gaff, Gov, Kennedy

In my opinion it’s important to have good senior leadership around the club playing staff wise as you transition sides. Yeah they might not be the champions of the game they once where but there knowledge, professionalism and experience plays a vital part in teaching the next generation

Sorry there’s no faith in the leaders on field at the moment… they are the ones who allowed the standards to slip, the players to become lazy and unfit, choose when to put effort in or not during games and helped make the club irrelevant…. They aren’t who you should be holding up as good senior leadership

 

[CountryLad]

Hope it’s ok I posted here. Just with English if he does decide to return to WA, he’ll be a restricted free agent and I think it’s a near certainty we’ll say we’ll match to force a trade of multiple picks similar to what happened with Jeremy Cameron.

Happy to hear an opposition thought on English. We have guys in here that think we will just walk English in here for $800k a year.

 

[Chump Change]

Do people really think our worst years will be 24/25 after we all witnessed 2022?

We'll still be bottoming. Just drafting kids, building a new team, and losing because you can't expect kids to be able to compete with 27ish year old Oliver and Petracca, or Walsh, MacKay, and Curnow etc.

But what will happen is after 3-4 years of bottoming, supporters will be melting their shit like Karen has a sauce missing from her McDonald's order.

We're better placed than Hawks. Clarko brought in Tom Mitchell, O'Meara, and Wingard thinking he could compete for a flag again. All it did was delay the rebuild. Mitchell had one season to assess and realised he was heading towards a wall so traded out to induce a bottom out and draft picks.

We are in exactly the same position as them right now. Hawks have just wasted 3 seasons not being totally invested in rebuilding.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

We'll still be bottoming.

 

[CountryLad]

Adelaide this year are probably a good indicator of a rebuild timeframe. The pre season drama of 2018 forced a rebuild and here they are in 2023 looking very competitive.

Ours started in 2021 and whilst it will look slightly different to Adelaides I think we can do something similar or even better.

Freo’s rebuild took longer than necessary due to getting away from the draft at times. Hawks have made similar mistakes. Both times the clubs have become impatient and tried to top up and cost themselves time in the long run.

 

[Chump Change]

Dees gave us a reach-around in the second half.

 

[Cuzz09]

I feel like Adelaides rebuild is the way to go .

Load up the attack and midfield

So exciting now and pretty much always competitive despite being fairly easy to score against.

If you can't kick goals you aren't going anywhere.

We've got a good start with Oscar and co but we're gonna need some extras over the next couple of years along with stacking the midfield.

It sucks its going to take so many years but if we're attacking it makes it exciting.

I remember the Malthouse years being ultra defensive and while it was great to win I remember SO many games example 9-11 goals to 5-6 in perfect conditions

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[Obeanie1]

You got complete faith in your current off field football operations and current coach?

Just because that was the WCE way in the past, doesn’t mean it holds true now and in to the future.


I’m not making my judgements based on looking in from the outside. I’m making them based on what I’ve read here for the last year.

I can’t see the future, so who knows who’s running the club and coaching the team 9 months from now.

But I know from reading here, the majority of posters here don’t have much faith in Nesbitt running the show, or in Simpson’s coaching.

And purely looking in from the outside, it still doesn’t look like your senior players have gotten over their covid years funk.

Briz. I think we get your point of view on this mate.

No need to keep repeating it over and over especially when its nothing more than a guess on what may happen over the next two or three drafts and trade periods.

You often put a disclaimer in your statements about free agents and trades. Opposition sides also get older and start dropping away.

Happy for you to keep posting on our board but continually repeating yourself on our clubs demise, crap list and doubting its ability to rebuild is starting to wear thin tbh.

By 2025 the club will have addressed our current ruck weakness. Spent three drafts and trade periods replenishing with youth in top 30 picks including several top 10. Hopefully we also pick up some quality depth with fringe players who dont cost picks under 30. Your boy Dev who still isnt getting much opportunity will hopefully be the first. WA Tyler Brockman with twins under 1 is also a quality 21 year old who is showing plenty who could be tempted to move home similar to Kelly but wont cost the earth at the end of this year.

Im hoping for a Don Pike, Dean Cox coaching team to come in at the end of 2024 and they possibly will bring some Swans WA talent with them, Sheldrick and Warner Jnr for example.

This draft is a deep one with several quality WA kids who will fall outside the top 30. Academy kids at other clubs will take picks and list spots leaving others to slide. Gold Coast especially. Several father sons will take spots and picks not on WA talent.

So plenty going on. And no one knows where we will be in 3 years. But Id bet a body part we will be futher ahead in 2025 than the Hawks are today.

 

[Nuffington Post]

I feel like Adelaides rebuild is the way to go .

Load up the attack and midfield

So exciting now and pretty much always competitive despite being fairly easy to score against.

If you can't kick goals you aren't going anywhere.

We've got a good start with Oscar and co but we're gonna need some extras over the next couple of years along with stacking the midfield.

It sucks its going to take so many years but if we're attacking it makes it exciting.

I remember the Malthouse years being ultra defensive and while it was great to win I remember SO many games example 9-11 goals to 5-6 in perfect conditions

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Adelaide have an exciting forward line but I don’t think they are the benchmark. They have a makeshift midfield of former defenders and made a lot of draft mistakes (Mcasey, Galluci, Mchenry, Jones). You’re never going to have 100% success rate but I would rather prioritize elite midfielders than small forwards.


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[Obeanie1]

I feel like Adelaides rebuild is the way to go .

Load up the attack and midfield

So exciting now and pretty much always competitive despite being fairly easy to score against.

If you can't kick goals you aren't going anywhere.

We've got a good start with Oscar and co but we're gonna need some extras over the next couple of years along with stacking the midfield.

It sucks its going to take so many years but if we're attacking it makes it exciting.

I remember the Malthouse years being ultra defensive and while it was great to win I remember SO many games example 9-11 goals to 5-6 in perfect conditions

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Crows have focused their top picks on forwards. Talking about this yesterday.

Thilthorp pick 3
Rachelle pick 6
Fogarty pick 10
Rankin trade pick 5

Dawson traded with a F1st is the highest pick used on a mid for some time i believe.

They havent used top picks on mids. 2nd rounders yes.

Im all on the Ashton Moir pick 2 bandwagon. Any 18 year old who kicks goals from outside 50 on either foot without trying is special.

Target Brockman over the next two years.

Small / mediam forwards of Ryan, Long, Moir and Brockman. That would be a very, very dangerous combo all with 50 games under their belts by the end of 2025.

 

[CountryLad]

I feel like Adelaides rebuild is the way to go .

Load up the attack and midfield

So exciting now and pretty much always competitive despite being fairly easy to score against.

If you can't kick goals you aren't going anywhere.

We've got a good start with Oscar and co but we're gonna need some extras over the next couple of years along with stacking the midfield.

It sucks its going to take so many years but if we're attacking it makes it exciting.

I remember the Malthouse years being ultra defensive and while it was great to win I remember SO many games example 9-11 goals to 5-6 in perfect conditions

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Crows haven’t got there midfield quite right yet and they can get hold of at times still which puts the defence under the pump.
I watch a bit of them because a good mate is a mad crows supporter.

Reckon they will be chasing quality mids in the next few drafts/trade periods.

 

[EagleEgo]

2023 mid season draft is on the 4th May (a month earlier than 2022) and is only a month away. After Round 4, we are bottom 3 and we will almost certain to have a good pick. With so many injuries, who will be the potential one(s) for the WCE?

 

[Jumpoff Joey]

Good points all round. Just hope the kids we pick come off, if they do we are laughing. These injuries force the kids to play as many games as possible. And next year Ginbey, Culley, Hewitt, Hough, LEdwards and Long should be around the 20-30ish.

ER is right. We will be younger with more kids being experienced. 2026 the aim should be getting into the 8.

I'll be very interested come draft time the strategy behind it all. Especially if we are wooden spooners - accept a godfather deal that could land us Duursma, Curtin and Tholstrup? or Harley ****ing Reid. Looking forward to reading the draft watcher's point of view.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

2023 mid season draft is on the 4th May (a month earlier than 2022) and is only a month away. After Round 4, we are bottom 3 and we will almost certain to have a good pick. With so many injuries, who will be the potential one(s) for the WCE?

May 31 according to Cal Twomey:

 

[Chump Change]

Spoon contenders up to mid season draft:
(I don't think Dockers and Suns are legit spoon contenders but for MSD they are in the mix)

9. North (2 wins)
Lions at Adelaide Hills
Suns at GC
Dees at MCG

13. Dockers (1 win)
Suns at Norwood
Dogs at Optus
Lions at Gabba

14. Giants (1 win)
Hawks at Norwood
Lions at Manuka
Swans at SCG

15. Eagles (1 win)
Geelong at AO
Port at AO
Carlton at Optus

16. Suns (1 win)
Dockers at Norwood
North at GC
Tigers at Marvel

17. Hawks (1 win)
Giants at Norwood
Crows at Tas
Dogs at Marvel


Assuming Cats win today, one of Hawks/Giants wins and puts them out of our way.
If Giants lose they are competing with us for 18th.

Suns and North play each other.
North win and it's like they dodge the 2023 spoon.


I think us and either Hawks or Giants will be bottom 2 come mid season draft. Freo not looking good either.

 

[Chump Change]

Good points all round. Just hope the kids we pick come off, if they do we are laughing. These injuries force the kids to play as many games as possible. And next year Ginbey, Culley, Hewitt, Hough, LEdwards and Long should be around the 20-30ish.

ER is right. We will be younger with more kids being experienced. 2026 the aim should be getting into the 8.

I'll be very interested come draft time the strategy behind it all. Especially if we are wooden spooners - accept a godfather deal that could land us Duursma, Curtin and Tholstrup? or Harley ******* Reid. Looking forward to reading the draft watcher's point of view.

I would take Harley Reid every day of the week.

If you built right you go something like B4, B4, B4, B4, 9th-13th, top 4.

 

[Nuffington Post]

Sean Darcy

4

Sean Darcy

Age

26

Ht

203cm

Wt

111kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

28.8

5star

D

6.8

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.8

4star

HO

20.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

6.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

32.0

5star

is a restricted free agent next year. Is he someone we should look at given Freo are squeezed with how much they are paying Jackson?


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[Quinz]

Redraft Nick Reid

 

[Chump Change]

Sean Darcy is a restricted free agent next year. Is he someone we should look at given Freo are squeezed with how much they are paying Jackson?


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Pretty sure we have a tacit "hands off our stars" mutually beneficial agreement with Freo. The last thing either clubs wants is to be constantly worried about the rival down the road stealing players, pushing up contract values etc. Both teams lose if it gets to that.

We have Barnet or whatever his name is. Williams may still come good. There's no rush for a gun ruckman. I don't know why people keep banging on about this?

 

[Nuffington Post]

Pretty sure we have a tacit "hands off our stars" mutually beneficial agreement with Freo. The last thing either clubs wants is to be constantly worried about the rival down the road stealing players, pushing up contract values etc. Bother teams lose if it gets to that.

We have Barnet or whatever his name is. Williams may still come good. There's no rush for a gun ruckman. I don't know why people keep banging on about this?

Didn’t Freo have a big crack at Gov for his last contract forcing him to be the highest paid player in the game?


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[EagleEgo]

May 31 according to Cal Twomey:

A less reliable source - wikipedia mentions the date 4th May 2023.

2023 AFL draft - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org