List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Retired- Gaff Current contract status (Updated 21/8/24) : Total 44 Players - Main List (36) Rookie List (6) Cat B (2) Contracted to 2028 (2) : Liam Duggan (11/12/96) - Signed a 4 year extension (2025-28) in July 2024 Brady Hough (5/3/03) - Signed a 3 year extension...

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Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Dark Sharks]

We're trading pick 1 for him.

Well it's better than trading it for pick 45 like what's been reported.

 

[DanWCE]

Naughton is overrated.

That said, you can't judge him vs Allen on this year alone. Naughton, like his team had a down year.

Doesn't make him a spud, nor does it make him the superstar he's perceived to be in the Vic flog media.



Why are we even talking about Naughton?

So what did we have this year if the Dogs had a down year?

 

[pantskyle]

Well it's better than trading it for pick 45 like what's been reported.

Great deal.

 

[Gazeah78]

Mate take your blue and gold glasses off .
Both drafted in 2017 Naughton is 8 months younger than Allen

Naughton 123 games
Allen 82 games

Naughton 191 career goals 1.6 per game
Allen 199 career goals 1.5 per game

Arguably both teams have made i GF since they were drafted and probably played the same amount of finals .

Naughton is a gun and only 23 .

Pair him with Allen and with have a dream pair of forwards till 2030

Pretty sure Allen and Naughton are mates too. Would help get him back. Would be keen in a year or two when we are on our upswing.


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[Dark Sharks]

So what did we have this year if the Dogs had a down year?

Allen has had like.. 1 year better than Naughton, which was 2023

That hardly means Naughton is shit. And I don't even like Naughton.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

A more accomplished forward than Allen and younger than Allen.

What would people be willing to give up for another Allen?

Future 1st for Naughton + ?

Get Reid and Naughton ?

Are you having a laugh? Allen kicked more goals this year in a 3 win side with probably the worst percentage in modern footy after having a year off, than naughton has kicked in any season. Not to mention he spent time down back as well, and has been thrown all over the ground in his first few years whereas naughton has been played as a forward essentially the entire time.

Why give up valuable trade capital that will give us a better chance at sustained success in the future just to get a guy in the team a year or 2 sooner, when all that will achieve is maybe an extra win or 2 a year while we are rebuilding, and then end up costing us more draft capital in the long run as well?

That's the kind of trade you do when you think you're contending, or close to. Not when you're at rock bottom trying to build a list.

 

[MrKennedy17]

Well if Darling retires, maybe Gaff will take the hint too.

But in all honesty. Allen, Darling & Maric as tall fwds how does Waterman play?

Waterman needed JK to retire. Now he needs Darling to retire too because Maric is ahead of him. In the end Waterman is a good WAFL Full Forward but not the equivalent in AFL and cant beat out Half Fwd/Mid types for that 3rd tall role. He is not versatile enough, completely lacks any sort of Midfield/Wing craft.

Exciting times. Id rather use JD's Money.

 

[DanWCE]

Allen has had like.. 1 year better than Naughton, which was 2023

That hardly means Naughton is s**t. And I don't even like Naughton.

I'm not saying Naughton is a turd, I'm saying that if we compare two players over 23 games this season then Allen is in front significantly and on the back of a worse side

 

[Mop]

Mop’s two cents Thursday, 31 August 2023

Draft Harley Reid

Cheers

 

[WCE_phil]

From what I have heard Waterman lost over 10kg's (almost certainly all muscle) from his illness and time in hospital. Even if he gets back to the best football he can play like the few games he had early in the year I think next year will be a complete write off for him. If he gets back at all. (I really hope he does as he's a really wonderful team bloke with great footy IQ but I have my doubts)

Allen for all his amazing strengths can be prone to not going quite hard enough jumping into contests (almost as though he doesn't want to hurt the poor bastard under him) which for me is why he tends to look better as a CHF than a FF. Maybe that will come as a couple of weeks there he did have some amazing one on one and pack marks. It's really the only minor fault I can find in his game and that's really only if he's playing FF against high quality key defenders.

Maric looks like an amazing pick up and time will tell but seems more like a Gunston type (If he has half the career Gunston has had it would be spectacular) but he could still end up a key tall and his field kicking, vision and placement of said kicks is great.

Jack Williams to me is not a FF/Ruck. He is very young and coming from a fair way back but his best football was more as a CHF as a junior, he doesn't seem to read the play well from deep and isn't the most athletic or agile bloke out there.

As a club going forward the WCE are definitely a quality Key forward prospect short. They also tend to take 4-5 years to develop to be able to win their position week in, week out.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Is this Harleys mate?! Take him too...





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[Wooshaaaa]

From what I have heard Waterman lost over 10kg's (almost certainly all muscle) from his illness and time in hospital. Even if he gets back to the best football he can play like the few games he had early in the year I think next year will be a complete write off for him. If he gets back at all. (I really hope he does as he's a really wonderful team bloke with great footy IQ but I have my doubts)

Allen for all his amazing strengths can be prone to not going quite hard enough jumping into contests (almost as though he doesn't want to hurt the poor bastard under him) which for me is why he tends to look better as a CHF than a FF. Maybe that will come as a couple of weeks there he did have some amazing one on one and pack marks. It's really the only minor fault I can find in his game and that's really only if he's playing FF against high quality key defenders.

Maric looks like an amazing pick up and time will tell but seems more like a Gunston type (If he has half the career Gunston has had it would be spectacular) but he could still end up a key tall and his field kicking, vision and placement of said kicks is great.

Jack Williams to me is not a FF/Ruck. He is very young and coming from a fair way back but his best football was more as a CHF as a junior, he doesn't seem to read the play well from deep and isn't the most athletic or agile bloke out there.

As a club going forward the WCE are definitely a quality Key forward prospect short. They also tend to take 4-5 years to develop to be able to win their position week in, week out.

Welcome to the west Jed Walter!!

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[Grahame]

Well if Darling retires, maybe Gaff will take the hint too.

But in all honesty. Allen, Darling & Maric as tall fwds how does Waterman play?

Waterman needed JK to retire. Now he needs Darling to retire too because Maric is ahead of him. In the end Waterman is a good WAFL Full Forward but not the equivalent in AFL and cant beat out Half Fwd/Mid types for that 3rd tall role. He is not versatile enough, completely lacks any sort of Midfield/Wing craft.

Exciting times. Id rather use JD's Money.

Agree about Maric. Also we played Culley as a mid sized forward too. Got four in one game I think (?).
Pity about Jake. Have been a supporter but I think he’s finally lost his place in the queue.

 

[Rowan18]

I’d be very surprised if he did that with 2 years on his contract and a 3rd child on the way.

Would be bonkers.

He’d be looking forward to a good rest and a hassle free pre-season for the first time in a few years.

Agreed. He will become our next 300 game player if he sees his contract out. Despite a bunch of really unlucky injuries (fractured ankle and fractured arm) he still managed to play a lot of games this year.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Hawks fans have been very bullish on him, say with his potential he could be a Shai Bolton type

So could be a good cheap get if he lives up to his billing

I know it's highlights but he looks good.

Cripps replacement, in time?

 

[Rowan18]

Hawks fans have been very bullish on him, say with his potential he could be a Shai Bolton type

So could be a good cheap get if he lives up to his billing

I laugh at how they're highlighting his stats and they are things like "averaging 1.1 marks i50), "averaging 1 tackle i50"

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Are you having a laugh? Allen kicked more goals this year in a 3 win side with probably the worst percentage in modern footy after having a year off, than naughton has kicked in any season. Not to mention he spent time down back as well, and has been thrown all over the ground in his first few years whereas naughton has been played as a forward essentially the entire time.

Why give up valuable trade capital that will give us a better chance at sustained success in the future just to get a guy in the team a year or 2 sooner, when all that will achieve is maybe an extra win or 2 a year while we are rebuilding, and then end up costing us more draft capital in the long run as well?

That's the kind of trade you do when you think you're contending, or close to. Not when you're at rock bottom trying to build a list.

Apart from goal kicking accuracy which Allen is way above average in the league , naughton has him covered in most other areas .

They had about the same amount of shots on goal

Naughton also played further up the ground this year having to share the forward line with lobb and ugle-hagden .
40 + goals 3 years running for a tall forward not even 24 is pretty bloody good .

I wouldn't give up pick 1 for him but happy to involve our future first in a trade with something else coming back with Naughton

 

[bzparkes]

We're trading pick 1 for him.

 

[stallon]

View attachment 1791347
Apart from goal kicking accuracy which Allen is way above average in the league , naughton has him covered in most other areas .

They had about the same amount of shots on goal

Naughton also played further up the ground this year having to share the forward line with lobb and ugle-hagden .

Having other forwards also helps, hes not having to deal with multiple backman each week as sole target. I dont think anybody would prefer Naughton to Allen tbh

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Having other forwards also helps, hes not having to deal with multiple backman each week as sole target. I dont think anybody would prefer Naughton to Allen tbh

Why would it be Naughton over Allen ?

It would be Naughton with Allen

 

[Obeanie1]

Mate take your blue and gold glasses off .
Both drafted in 2017 Naughton is 8 months younger than Allen

Naughton 123 games
Allen 82 games

Naughton 191 career goals 1.6 per game
Allen 199 career goals 1.5 per game

Arguably both teams have made i GF since they were drafted and probably played the same amount of finals .

Naughton is a gun and only 23 .

Pair him with Allen and with have a dream pair of forwards till 2030

Isnt Allen 2.5 goals per game.

199 divided by 82!

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

I’d be very surprised if he did that with 2 years on his contract and a 3rd child on the way.

Would be bonkers.

He’d be looking forward to a good rest and a hassle free pre-season for the first time in a few years.

Wasn't Xavier Ellis speculating earlier in the year that darling would be playing for another team next year ?

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Isnt Allen 2.5 goals per game.

199 divided by 82!

Sorry typo Allen has kicked 119 goals at 1.5 per game

Naughton has kicked 72 more goals than Allen since they were both drafted in 2017

 

[EagleEgo]

Naughton and Allen were in the same draft year. Both born in 1999 a few months apart.

Naughton out of contract end of next year and then free agent the following year. Bulldogs would play hard ball so doesn’t make sense for us right now. Tell him to hold tight for a year or two. Only risk would be Freo coming hard for him but their salary cap should be pretty tight by then compared to us.

We can roll with talls of Allen, BW and Maric with JW and Waterman in the wings for now.

Did Naughton and Allen co-captain the U18 WA team as well?

 

[Priddis Is Done]

True we have no more excuses.

Don't be so hard on yourself. Scott decimated the list with never bottoming out but never truly contending.

Then the ex Collingwood coach looked good but left for mental health.

Lots of turmoil at the board and disunity. That's filtered through the whole club. That appears done and dusted. There will be a breakout year. 24 or 25 when things click and you'll see a rapid rise overnight.

Hang in there.