List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Retired- Gaff Current contract status (Updated 21/8/24) : Total 44 Players - Main List (36) Rookie List (6) Cat B (2) Contracted to 2028 (2) : Liam Duggan (11/12/96) - Signed a 4 year extension (2025-28) in July 2024 Brady Hough (5/3/03) - Signed a 3 year extension...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[Dom sheed pocket]

Having the same amount of shots on goal doesn't help your argument if naughton sprayed a bunch of them, it also doesn't include OOTF which would make his accuracy even worse.

Aside from tackles and goal assists, which stats of any significance does naughton have him covered in? I'd argue that if Allen wasn't playing in one of the most dysfunctional teams of all time he'd probably have matched naughton for goal assists as well, and the ball probably spent far more time in the dogs forward half than ours this year, which wouldn't have helped Allen's tackle count.


I agree naughton is good, and I'd like him in the side at some point if possible but you said he was ahead of allen as a forward, which just isn't the case. Allen should kick 70+ goals a year in a half decent side, if not more, especially given this was his first full year played as a forward.

Giving up valuable trade capital for a mid 20s forward is not smart use of resources given we have far more pressing needs elsewhere and we may be able to pick him up for free in a couple of years anyway when we are getting closer to contending.

I’m more interested in your last paragraph than the Allen v Naughton comparison.

Id argue that if a KPF of Naughton’s quality and age becomes available you do that deal and sort out the rest later.

You strike while the iron is hot. There is no guarantee that he is available next year, when he is out of contract and the likelihood of him signing for 12 months to get to FA so a club can get him for free is extremely low. Most players in his circumstance sign a long term deal taking them past 8 year RFA status (See: Shai Bolton) if they come out of contract 12 months prior to FA.

Not to mention if he is available and goes to another club, you’ve missed your opportunity.

Midfields are quite easy to build with a handful of high picks. KPP are just harder because the tome requires to develop them. Building from the midfield out, hasn’t really been a successful list build strategy (North Melbourne and Fremantle come to mind).

Adding Naughton now would mean our forward line is sorted for 10 years and then can continue to add to our midfield.

Adelaide took a big step forward this year and have the most potent forward line in the competition. Yes they missed finals, but the feeling is they now have all the big pieces in place forward of centre to become a team that can not only make finals, but also win them.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Thoughts on Jack Billings for West Coast IF he was willing to move to WA?
28 years of age

If he was a free agent maybe but he is not

 

[Peter Wallis]

Having other forwards also helps, hes not having to deal with multiple backman each week as sole target. I dont think anybody would prefer Naughton to Allen tbh

Allen for mine is the better player. Naughton is more flashy but in terms of performance and consistency Allen has it over him. He is much more reliable in front of goals and had he played for the Bulldogs this year would likely have kicked 70 goals.

 

[Dylan82]

Thoughts on Jack Billings for West Coast IF he was willing to move to WA?
28 years of age

Nope for me. 28 already and has played just 11 matches in the last two seasons.


The Saint that I would be inquiring about however, is H.Clark - coming out of contract, is widely perceived as gettable, and is still just 24.

 

[bzparkes]

We are not trading for Aaron ****ing Naughton.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

I’m more interested in your last paragraph than the Allen v Naughton comparison.

Id argue that if a KPF of Naughton’s quality and age becomes available you do that deal and sort out the rest later.

You strike while the iron is hot. There is no guarantee that he is available next year, when he is out of contract and the likelihood of him signing for 12 months to get to FA so a club can get him for free is extremely low. Most players in his circumstance sign a long term deal taking them past 8 year RFA status (See: Shai Bolton) if they come out of contract 12 months prior to FA.

Not to mention if he is available and goes to another club, you’ve missed your opportunity.

Midfields are quite easy to build with a handful of high picks. KPP are just harder because the tome requires to develop them. Building from the midfield out, hasn’t really been a successful list build strategy (North Melbourne and Fremantle come to mind).

Adding Naughton now would mean our forward line is sorted for 10 years and then can continue to add to our midfield.

Adelaide took a big step forward this year and have the most potent forward line in the competition. Yes they missed finals, but the feeling is they now have all the big pieces in place forward of centre to become a team that can not only make finals, but also win them.

We are near last in the comp for

Contested possession
Ground ball
Clearances
Centre clearances
Turnovers
Inside 50s
Scores inside 50
Kicking efficiency

Naughton doesn't help with any of it.

We need mids who can win the ball, retain the ball, use the ball well and get the ball inside our forward 50, and then we need high pressure forwards to keep the ball inside our forward half.

Naughton can wait.



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[WCE_phil]

Nope for me. 28 already and has played just 11 matches in the last two seasons.


The Saint that I would be inquiring about however, is H.Clark - coming out of contract, is widely perceived as gettable, and is still just 24.

Was huge on this kid in his draft year and would happily have him on the list. Likely would mean a rotation of himself and Duggan midfield and back or just Duggan to full time mid.

 

[EagleEgo]

Clay Hall is the only non-Allied midfielder in the U18 All Australian Team this year. Any reason why not much is talking about him here?

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

We are near last in the comp for

Contested possession
Ground ball
Clearances
Centre clearances
Turnovers
Inside 50s
Scores inside 50
Kicking efficiency

Naughton doesn't help with any of it.

We need mids who can win the ball, retain the ball, use the ball well and get the ball inside our forward 50, and then we need high pressure forwards to keep the ball inside our forward half.

Naughton can wait.



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I understand all of that, and agree with you but they don’t matter. A 23 year old KPF becomes available and every club tries to bring him in, no matter what part of the footy cycle they are in. KPF of Naughton’s ability don’t become available very often. If Naughton was available, we would not tell him to wait. Especially given we are in need of a long term KPF partner for Allen.

As Bzparkes said, it’s less likely than likely though- although Naughton definitely has his feelers out.

Bulldogs are in absolute disarray, and clubs are 100% trying to pick at the carcass.

 

[archiemoses]

Allen is a future captain. Naughton would never be. That's all you need to know.

 

[plays tall 1]

Clay Hall is the only non-Allied midfielder in the U18 All Australian Team this year. Any reason why not much is talking about him here?

His disposal can be erratic. In a couple of the championships games he let himself down badly with poor kicking, often when under little or no pressure.

 

[WCE_phil]

Clay Hall is the only non-Allied midfielder in the U18 All Australian Team this year. Any reason why not much is talking about him here?

I thought he would develop a touch more this season and be a bolter. He's very physically developed in comparison to overall a very weak midfield draft class and outside of intent and leadership doesn't really have a standout feature to his game. His kicking can also be very hit and miss.

As a later pick up if we go deep enough in the draft I would be happy to have him on the list but imo he's now 40+

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Naughton would be a great addition to the club, anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Having said that, the cost of acquiring him would be prohibitive given our needs elsewhere.

 

[EagleEgo]

His disposal can be erratic. In a couple of the championships games he let himself down badly with poor kicking, often when under little or no pressure.

Why is Clay Hall named in the best 22?

 

[bzparkes]

Allen is a future captain. Naughton would never be. That's all you need to know.

Well, actually Bulldogs supporters have been suggesting he's their next captain.

 

[Ghossein]

Why is Clay Hall named in the best 22?

idk who made the best 22?

 

[EagleEgo]

idk who made the best 22?

2023 AFL National Championships U18 Boys All-Australian Team announced - 2023 AFL National Championships U18 Boys All-Australian Team announced

 

[ziad]

Naughton would be a great addition to the club, anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Having said that, the cost of acquiring him would be prohibitive given our needs elsewhere.

I am not entering the Naughton discussion as it is beyond speculative. I have been pleasantly impressed with Allen's work given he had a long time out and is effectively first up in a very specialised role at FF. He does however seem to lack a very strong physical presence and perhaps looks more a mobile CHF? - we could benifit with a bigger bodied key forward to to take on the grunt work closer to goals. JD is either in or out but regardless is in the latter stages of his career. We need to develop a replacement for him.

 

[random260]

Clay Hall is the only non-Allied midfielder in the U18 All Australian Team this year. Any reason why not much is talking about him here?

Ainsworth was AA C mid in juniors so that should be met with trepidation.

In saying that I do hope we get him. He will help out wafl team very much

 

[EagleEgo]

Ainsworth was AA C mid in juniors so that should be met with trepidation.

In saying that I do hope we get him. He will help out wafl team very much

Ainsworth was not in the U18 AA Team!

 

[random260]

Ainsworth was not in the U18 AA Team!

U18 All Australian team revealed: Metro guns dominate

'Next Dusty' and son of a Tiger named in U18 All Australian team

www.afl.com.au

?

 

[Hook461123]

Clay Hall is the only non-Allied midfielder in the U18 All Australian Team this year. Any reason why not much is talking about him here?

Thought he was best on for WA in the first couple of games. Actually showed some competitiveness when the rest of the team was getting smashed (which could be vital at the Eagles currently).
He has been pretty good for Peel in the WAFL too.
I'd be happy with him with 35 or 38 if he makes it that far.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

I am not entering the Naughton discussion as it is beyond speculative. I have been pleasantly impressed with Allen's work given he had a long time out and is effectively first up in a very specialised role at FF. He does however seem to lack a very strong physical presence and perhaps looks more a mobile CHF? - we could benifit with a bigger bodied key forward to to take on the grunt work closer to goals. JD is either in or out but regardless is in the latter stages of his career. We need to develop a replacement for him.

There’s no doubt his best has been when he has been up the ground. That goal against Adelaide where he got the ball just outside 50 and kicked a goal from 50 was in my mind what he looks like at his best.

Finding the ability to release him from being double teamed 10/25 metres out from goal will be the key to getting the best out of him in my view.

 

[EagleMan87]

Was huge on this kid in his draft year and would happily have him on the list. Likely would mean a rotation of himself and Duggan midfield and back or just Duggan to full time mid.

Can you imagine Billings under our medical team? He'd f***ing die.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

All im saying is if Naughton wants to come home I'm willing to put our future 1st on the table as part of the deal.

Also mid 20s forward? Naughton is 23

That's fair enough, but what would you expect back? I can't see the dogs wanting to give much back at all, and as he's still contracted they hold all the cards. We saw with the Kelly trade what happens when our recruiters get set on a player, would hate to pay overs for a key forward at this stage of the rebuild. He's almost 24 and if we picked him up this offseason he will turn 25 in his first year with us, so I think that qualifies as mid 20's. Also he is the exact same age as Allen, so we could be left with a gaping hole in our forwardline in 6-8 years if they both retired around the same time. Would prefer to find someone a few years younger personally, who may come cheaper and will start to peak around when we start to challenge.

I’m more interested in your last paragraph than the Allen v Naughton comparison.

Id argue that if a KPF of Naughton’s quality and age becomes available you do that deal and sort out the rest later.

You strike while the iron is hot. There is no guarantee that he is available next year, when he is out of contract and the likelihood of him signing for 12 months to get to FA so a club can get him for free is extremely low. Most players in his circumstance sign a long term deal taking them past 8 year RFA status (See: Shai Bolton) if they come out of contract 12 months prior to FA.

Not to mention if he is available and goes to another club, you’ve missed your opportunity.

Midfields are quite easy to build with a handful of high picks. KPP are just harder because the tome requires to develop them. Building from the midfield out, hasn’t really been a successful list build strategy (North Melbourne and Fremantle come to mind).

Adding Naughton now would mean our forward line is sorted for 10 years and then can continue to add to our midfield.

Adelaide took a big step forward this year and have the most potent forward line in the competition. Yes they missed finals, but the feeling is they now have all the big pieces in place forward of centre to become a team that can not only make finals, but also win them.

I'd normally agree with you, but we are in a deep hole and need to get out of it before we start offloading significant draft capital for players who don't fill a pressing need. You're right there is no guarantee he is available next year, but the opportunity cost of taking him is greater than the opportunity cost of missing out on him IMO. You can say midfields are easy to build with high picks but up until last year we have hardly picked up a quality midfielder in the draft for almost 15 years, and we still have no idea if the club is going to do the right thing and take Reid or flinch and trade down for Curtin, so we'd be giving up some of our highest picks we've ever had for KPP and ignoring the midfield further, which should be the first, second and third priority. Most of our players hit a wall at 30 or early 30's, and the way he and Allen play I can't see them lasting into their mid 30's, especially if he is playing for a WA club. It would be more likely our key forwards are set for 6-8 years, and as I said above they'd both be retiring at a similar time as they're born in the same year which would leave a big hole, instead of staggering the loss of talent if you have keyforwards that aren't the exact same age.

Adelaide absolutely smashed us in the middle both times we played them. Our forward line is probably the strongest part of the ground for us, so to give up significant draft capital to strengthen it while neglecting our midfield will further unbalance our list. If we could trade our future first for 2 mid first rounders next year, I'd be happy to trade one of them for naughton, but no way in hell we should be trading what is probably a top 3 pick next year for a forward who will turn 25 next year while the midfield continues to get smashed.