Mega Thread Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 3

[Gralin]

This is part Three.

Part One can be found here -

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - season postponed. (Thread part 1 - cont in part 2, link in thread)

This is part 1 of this thread. Continued in Part 2: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/coronavirus-the-afl-season-postponed-part-2.1237935/

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Part Two can be found here -

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - season postponed. Part 2 * CONTINUED ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED *

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/pages/covid-stats-australia/

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Part 4 can be found here:

Mega Thread - Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 4

This is part Four. Part One can be found here - https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/coronavirus-the-afl-season-postponed.1236651/unread Part Two can be found here -...

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Australian stats page:

Australian Coronavirus Stats

Latest COVID-19 stats from Australia.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[juss]

I like a saying I heard of from someone who was advocating for elimination:

"The only way to live with the virus is to live without it."

Elimination is not feasible any time soon, cant leave the state/country borders closed forever.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We will never be at level pegging with the rest of Australia. We aren't getting this down to 0 inside the next 4 weeks.

Why ? Who is spreading it?

This Virus is only being spread by people who have it , interacting with people who don't.
Its not some magic super virus.

Trouble is we have people who :

a) try to stay within the spirit of the restrictions and try not to contract /spread the virus. They are the vast majority and probably don't have it.
b) abide by restrictions but try to find any loophole and do the most they can within those restrictions. IDK why.
c) blatently fight restrictions. I can do what i want ...you can take my life but you cannnnnottt make me wear a maaaaasssk.
d) don't give a shit.

b) need to think about why they don't like restrictions and try to make them over shorter , rather than prolong them.
c ) are ****wits , arrest them.

Its the new cases we need to get down close to zero in a month not the actives.
If these stage 4 restrictions hadn't been brought in, we'd be looking at 1000s new per day by now.
Right now we are seeing the results of actions 3 weeks ago.

 

[dont bowl there]

Why ? Who is spreading it?

This Virus is only being spread by people who have it , interacting with people who don't.
Its not some magic super virus.

Trouble is we have people who :

a) try to stay within the spirit of the restrictions and try not to contract /spread the virus. They are the vast majority and probably don't have it.
b) abide by restrictions but try to find any loophole and do the most they can within those restrictions. IDK why.
c) blatently fight restrictions. I can do what i want ...you can take my life but you cannnnnottt make me wear a maaaaasssk.
d) don't give a sh*t.

b) need to think about why they don't like restrictions and try to make them over shorter , rather than prolong them.
c ) are *******s , arrest them.

Its the new cases we need to get down close to zero in a month not the actives.
If these stage 4 restrictions hadn't been brought in, we'd be looking at 1000s new per day by now.
Right now we are seeing the results of actions 3 weeks ago.

Because there are still a shit tonne of people that are going to work and a heap of people breaking the rules. It won't get down to zero. No chance at all.

 

[dont bowl there]

Plus the Gov isn't even aiming for 0. It just won't happen.

 

[Bring-Back-Powell]

Elimination is not feasible any time soon, cant leave the state/country borders closed forever.

Can the federal government force the states to re-open if push came to shove in a year or so time? Is it legally possible?

Imagine how much money the tourism sector in QLD is losing given that every fifth Victorian family can't make their annual pilgrimage to the Gold Coast.

 

[hawksrule111]

Correct, this is an indefinite solution but its not sustainable like that. In fact I'm surprised they agreed to be hubbed for the 3 month period initially. A second year in a row would probably be too great an ask.

Not just the players in hubs. Many on this forum are all die hard supporters and if we can't physically be there we still support our club - and most importantly, still support it financially. Not everyone can and will do that though.

Even for me, footy is not just about winning and losing. It's my chance to catch up with my brother, old man and the boys each week. Have a few beers, talk shit and nowadays watch the hawks get pumped. It's the total experience which is why I love it. Watching week in and week out on TV, I just feel so removed from it all.

If I couldn't get to the footy for two+ years, I'd lose interest.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

that is the most stupid and ridiculous statement i’ve read in 6 months

police policing the right areas? lol

too late for that bucko

I find your reply stupid and ridiculous. And who even uses "bucko "?

22 Local government areas in Victoria have no active Covid19 cases. Does it make sense for police to be heavy handed there?
20 LGA's have less than 10 cases.
20 have more than 10 but less then 100.
Then there are the other 19.

6 local government areas have 48% if the active cases. Pretty much the same areas that have been a problem all along.
With other isolated hot spots , no-where else is really looking out of control like those areas.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Because there are still a sh*t tonne of people that are going to work and a heap of people breaking the rules. It won't get down to zero. No chance at all.

I'm going to work, but we have a pretty good Covid plan in place. All operating work places are supposed to have this. So lets put it all down to people breaking the rules.

I have heard that some workplaces have been shut down for not having a covidsafe plan.
I expect we'll hear more of this sort of thing in the near future.
Big fines for the operators as well.

If it was me , i'd have said that any business that wants to operate needs to send their details.
ie address, abn, contact details, number of employees , number of casuals employed/week.
along with their covidsafe plan to a worksafe email and their eligibility to operate based on the government guidelines.

They could put that in a database and target businesses for inspection based on
: amount of Covid19 in the area.
: fixed or on site work .
: exposure to the public.
: use of casual staff
: total number of employees.

In fact , given that stage 4 was a topic weeks before it came in, this should have been done in advance.

Allowing businesses "in" by industry is crazy, some will do it right and some will be slack as hell, irregardless of sector.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Can the federal government force the states to re-open if push came to shove in a year or so time? Is it legally possible?

Imagine how much money the tourism sector in QLD is losing given that every fifth Victorian family can't make their annual pilgrimage to the Gold Coast.

Its against the constitution to discriminate against people in Australia based on where they live.
However they can restrict travel based on health risk.

For example , once the 2 cases in Wodonga shire become inactive, I don't know how they can now close the NSW border to those living in that area.
There will be no evidence that they are more likely to have the virus than those living in Albury. Probably a pertinent example given the way people in that area work and shop.

I agree that travel should be restricted.
Perhaps the border is "convenient " but its not necessarily the best spot.

 

[mcnulty]

Can the federal government force the states to re-open if push came to shove in a year or so time? Is it legally possible?

Imagine how much money the tourism sector in QLD is losing given that every fifth Victorian family can't make their annual pilgrimage to the Gold Coast.

Even if they could legally politically it would be a fraught thing to do. The federal government pulled out of Palmer’s lawsuit quick smart presumably because it played poorly in WA.

If Queensland continues to have few/no infections and there are outbreaks down south, Morrison would be very loathe push anything on to the very people who won him the last election.

 

[juss]

Can the federal government force the states to re-open if push came to shove in a year or so time? Is it legally possible?

Imagine how much money the tourism sector in QLD is losing given that every fifth Victorian family can't make their annual pilgrimage to the Gold Coast.

I dont know those legalities, but I know that there is every possibility this virus remains for a very long time, and sooner or later life will have to return and we will have to deal with living with the virus, as we do with other diseases/illnesses. I dont know when that will be, but I do know that lockdown/border closures isn't sustainable forever.

Correct on places like GC, those businesses and local economies are built on tourism.

*a vaccine/drug treatment mitigates against all of the above.

 

[Forward Press]

Even if they could legally politically it would be a fraught thing to do. The federal government pulled out of Palmer’s lawsuit quick smart presumably because it played poorly in WA.

If Queensland continues to have few/no infections and there are outbreaks down south, Morrison would be very loathe push anything on to the very people who won him the last election.

'Poorly' is an understatement - a poll had about 96% support for McGowan's border measures before Clive Palmer's latest legal challenge to try and bankrupt the state if he could not force it open.

It is rare to see such universal support for a leader anywhere.

Politically, and medically, it might be prudent to leave the current border measures as they are until 2021. It's not like each state is completely cut off - trade and essential travel still occurs.

 

[kreglze]

I am interested in how long you can keep borders closed before it becomes a constitutional issue that really threatens Australia as a country (Going to the worst case scenario, but after 2020 nothing would surprise me). Potentially, do states break off and become their own entity. I know, ravings of a mad man, but with no end in the sight to border closures, who knows.

Plus side, AFL becomes an international game finally haha.

 

[Brizzys Squizzy]

That is crazy talk.
If we are learning to live with it, that means that we will have a significant number of young, otherwise healthy people dying of this infection. And there will be an even greater of otherwise healthy young people with long lasting damage to their lungs, heart, arteries and/or brain.
This is not a flu. It is a virus that attacks cells throughout the body. And it is more easily transmitted than the flu.

Life must go on, but until the numbers of transmission within communities is down to zero, life will be different for Australians. The alternative - to do what Sweden did by design, or what America did by incompetence, is too damaging to the population and the economy, in both the long and short term.

Please give the scaremongering a spell you drip go and follow the other sheep.

 

[Brizzys Squizzy]

Why ? Who is spreading it?

This Virus is only being spread by people who have it , interacting with people who don't.
Its not some magic super virus.

Trouble is we have people who :

a) try to stay within the spirit of the restrictions and try not to contract /spread the virus. They are the vast majority and probably don't have it.
b) abide by restrictions but try to find any loophole and do the most they can within those restrictions. IDK why.
c) blatently fight restrictions. I can do what i want ...you can take my life but you cannnnnottt make me wear a maaaaasssk.
d) don't give a sh*t.

b) need to think about why they don't like restrictions and try to make them over shorter , rather than prolong them.
c ) are *******s , arrest them.

Its the new cases we need to get down close to zero in a month not the actives.
If these stage 4 restrictions hadn't been brought in, we'd be looking at 1000s new per day by now.
Right now we are seeing the results of actions 3 weeks ago.

What a load of dribble how the F.... do you know we'd have thousands of cases by now.Don't listen to the mainstream media dickheads mate do your research on what percentage the spread rate actually is.

 

[HTT]

Please give the scaremongering a spell you drip go and follow the other sheep.

'Go and follow the other sheep'
From someone who read something on facebook one time that said it was a hoax that every government and every medical professional in the entire world is in on.

 

[JackOutback]

'Poorly' is an understatement - a poll had about 96% support for McGowan's border measures before Clive Palmer's latest legal challenge to try and bankrupt the state if he could not force it open.

It is rare to see such universal support for a leader anywhere.

Politically, and medically, it might be prudent to leave the current border measures as they are until 2021. It's not like each state is completely cut off - trade and essential travel still occurs.

I'm supportive of the border closures, but there needs to be a plan. There are families separated by the border closures, there will be grandparents that haven't seen their grandchildren for almost a year, a lot can change in that time, the fact that trade and essential workers can come into WA doesn't really help them. I agree we should keep the borders closed for now, but we need to be looking at when and how we can open to states that have effectively eliminated coronavirus. An open-ended closure through next year when some states are safe isn't tenable.

 

[Forward Press]

I'm supportive of the border closures, but there needs to be a plan. There are families separated by the border closures, there will be grandparents that haven't seen their grandchildren for almost a year, a lot can change in that time, the fact that trade and essential workers can come into WA doesn't really help them. I agree we should keep the borders closed for now, but we need to be looking at when and how we can open to states that have effectively eliminated coronavirus. An open-ended closure through next year when some states are safe isn't tenable.

Personally I don't see an issue with a slight relaxation so family reunions can happen - if numbers track down and steady around the Christmas and New Year break that is an easy move to make, if the numbers in say SA and WA are good then there can be a bubble there. There is always an element of risk, but at the moment the risk is unacceptably high to allow family reunions with Victorians, for example.

International travel except to select few places will probably be the last barrier to be dismantled and that might only ever occur with a vaccine.

 

[hawksrule111]

I'm supportive of the border closures, but there needs to be a plan. There are families separated by the border closures, there will be grandparents that haven't seen their grandchildren for almost a year, a lot can change in that time, the fact that trade and essential workers can come into WA doesn't really help them. I agree we should keep the borders closed for now, but we need to be looking at when and how we can open to states that have effectively eliminated coronavirus. An open-ended closure through next year when some states are safe isn't tenable.

Completely agree.

I haven't been able to see family and friends living all over Australia all year, same goes with family in rural for Victoria for that matter. One of my mates sister has cancer and he hasn't been able to return to Melb to help her out with the kids as he'd be coming down for quick 1 week trips at a time.

We are a big country with many families split across state borders and many do this because it's only a short plane trip to return home when you need. No one in their right mind would ever have thought travel would be restricted for this long. Something will need to give eventually.

The interesting thought is same goes with international. Australia is built on immigration. Eventually people will want to go back and visit their own family in China, England, US etc. Can handle it for a year or so but it's not sustainable long term.

 

[HTT]

What a load of dribble how the F.... do you know we'd have thousands of cases by now.Don't listen to the mainstream media dickheads mate do your research on what percentage the spread rate actually is.

How do we know?
Well, in order

USA
Brazil
India
Russia
South Africa
Peru
Mexico
Colombia
Chile
Spain
Iran
UK
Saudi Arabia
Argentina
Pakistan
Bangladesh
Italy
Turkey
Germany
France
Iraq
Phillipines
Indonesia
Canada
Qatar
Kazhakstan
Ecuador
Bolivia
Egypt
Israel
Ukraine
Dominican Republic
China
Sweden
Oman
Panama
Belgium
Kuwait
Romania
Netherlands
Guatemala
Singapore
Japan
Portugal
Honduras

All these countries have had multiple days recording over 1000 new cases. They are not all developing countries. Some of them have even had model responses to the virus (Germany, Singapore, Japan).
And a few weeks ago we were on the same trajectory as them. Stop thinking we are somehow different to the rest of the world, and have some immunity against contagious diseases. That is delusional. Like the rest of the world, it takes extreme measures here to get outbreaks of this virus under control. And the less compliance there is, the more extreme those measures need to be.

 

[Forward Press]

Completely agree.

I haven't been able to see family and friends living all over Australia all year, same goes with family in rural for Victoria for that matter. One of my mates sister has cancer and he hasn't been able to return to Melb to help her out with the kids as he'd be coming down for quick 1 week trips at a time.

We are a big country with many families split across state borders and many do this because it's only a short plane trip to return home when you need. No one in their right mind would ever have thought travel would be restricted for this long. Something will need to give eventually.

The interesting thought is same goes with international. Australia is built on immigration. Eventually people will want to go back and visit their own family in China, England, US etc. Can handle it for a year or so but it's not sustainable long term.

Immigration is still allowed - new permanent residents are coming here all the time - essentially the restriction is on tourists and other non-essential travel. And of course, Australia cannot legally deny a citizen from re-entering (save for exceptional circumstances like a dual citizen terrorist).

Movement for carer purposes is also a common exception to hard border rules. I think some might not understand that a hard border doesn't mean zero travel, full stop.

 

[Atomboy]

Completely agree.

I haven't been able to see family and friends living all over Australia all year, same goes with family in rural for Victoria for that matter. One of my mates sister has cancer and he hasn't been able to return to Melb to help her out with the kids as he'd be coming down for quick 1 week trips at a time.

We are a big country with many families split across state borders and many do this because it's only a short plane trip to return home when you need. No one in their right mind would ever have thought travel would be restricted for this long. Something will need to give eventually.

The interesting thought is same goes with international. Australia is built on immigration. Eventually people will want to go back and visit their own family in China, England, US etc. Can handle it for a year or so but it's not sustainable long term.

At least international students can now come into Australia from next month.

Great to hear considering my own government refuses me permission to leave my own country.

 

[kreglze]

Completely agree.

I haven't been able to see family and friends living all over Australia all year, same goes with family in rural for Victoria for that matter. One of my mates sister has cancer and he hasn't been able to return to Melb to help her out with the kids as he'd be coming down for quick 1 week trips at a time.

We are a big country with many families split across state borders and many do this because it's only a short plane trip to return home when you need. No one in their right mind would ever have thought travel would be restricted for this long. Something will need to give eventually.

The interesting thought is same goes with international. Australia is built on immigration. Eventually people will want to go back and visit their own family in China, England, US etc. Can handle it for a year or so but it's not sustainable long term.

You make a good point, if I knew that I would've been stuck in Victoria for a year not bring able to leave, see family and friends I would have definitely moved back to the Gold Coast from Manchester instead of setting up in Melbourne.

 

[hawksrule111]

Immigration is still allowed - new permanent residents are coming here all the time - essentially the restriction is on tourists and other non-essential travel. And of course, Australia cannot legally deny a citizen from re-entering (save for exceptional circumstances like a dual citizen terrorist).

Movement for carer purposes is also a common exception to hard border rules. I think some might not understand that a hard border doesn't mean zero travel, full stop.

I meant currently Australia is stopping people leaving. That's not sustainable nor in my view should it be legal.

 

[Major Colvin]

I am interested in how long you can keep borders closed before it becomes a constitutional issue that really threatens Australia as a country (Going to the worst case scenario, but after 2020 nothing would surprise me). Potentially, do states break off and become their own entity. I know, ravings of a mad man, but with no end in the sight to border closures, who knows.

Plus side, AFL becomes an international game finally haha.

It raises an interesting point.

Assuming Vic and NSW get their numbers 'low' enough, without eliminating it (which is Federal govt concedes, elimination is not their objective), if the Federal government can not then work with the states to coordinate reopening of borders with states which have 'supposedly' eliminated it, the Commonwealth government will appear nebulous and de-legitimised (even moreso).

The Federal govt is now caught between a rock and hard place because they have pushed responsibility to the states to suppress the virus (offering support such as the ADF) but there has never been a national strategy or discussion on how the economy will reopen with 'low' COVID numbers (which is as I stress, the Federal govts objective).

The recent Palmer case was interesting because ScoMo, as per usual, wants to ride the back of someone else to get a desired outcome. Fortunately, for WA, Palmer is one of the most reviled men in the Australian public sphere - so politically ScoMo had to withdraw from that fight - but clearly he wants Palmer to succeed.

ScoMo would much prefer the High Ct rule on the issue than actually having hard conversation with Premiers, health experts etc. So either a Federal plan to reopen borders without eliminating the virus or a High Court challenge (from a more credible litigant) is inevitable. Given the Cth's form of shirking any and all responsibility, it seems likely the latter.

Without a plan, tensions between the states and Cth will build and so will their animosity. If states can't work eventually together during the hard times, lead by the Commonwealth, to reopen borders, 'Australia' as a state becomes redundant.