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[Stiffy_18]

Fairly true Stiff, but if he could have put 3 years together at the same level as his 2008 season I reckon Bock would have been in the same tier.

Sorry but NO chance!

Pavlich is on an entirely different level of talent than Bock. He is a much bigger gun regardless of how good Bock is.

Bock was and IMHO still is a GREAT CHB but Pavlich is a GREAT footballer. Play him anywhere FF, CHF, midfield, CHB, FB and he has the same impact. Something Bock could NEVER do.

Pav is the only man that has won AA selection as a forward, midfielder and defender. He is miles ahead of Bock.

 

[amer]

Or what you have not considered is that our list has reached a certain point where we are now comfortable to cover up the holes with trading?!

This about it, when Craig took over our list was one of the oldest in the competition. IIRC it was top 5 in average age. Since them he has dramatically turned over the list to the point where we will be one of the youngest in the competition next year. Certainly top 5 youngest.

Over the last 5 years, one of Craig's biggest criticisms was his unwillingness to trade and willingness to only go for the draft or young players via trade. Look at the trades that we have done in Craig's time and its all been for young players that still have development in them.

Now we have reached the point of having some good to great young talent on the list but with the retirings of legends we are lacking experience and happen to have some major cash freed up in the salary cap. It is exactly the right time to make a move for experienced players.

I don't think its about saving his job, which IMHO is just rubbish. Its about balancing a list by the means that has become available to the club. We have some really good youngsters with genuine A grade talent that still needs to be developed. IMHO Tippett, Walker, Dangerfield, Mackay, Davis and Porplyzia are genuine A grade "potential" talent. And on top of that we have some great complementary pieces to these guys. What we lack is experienced genuine A graders and Craig and the club have gone out trying to land that fish. Its the reason they had a crack at Griffin as their #1 target and its a reason they are interested in Pavlich.

Its got nothing to do with Craig wanting to save his job. I understand Craig has his faults that are key reasons behind our spiral down the ladder this year but I think Alex and in this particular post yourself are taking the opposite extreme.

I'd add Vince and Knights to that group

But yeah you're spot on. And crow-mo, yes, we should contend in 2011, the list is good enough. Add a Pavlich or someone of that ilk and its prospects are only enhanced.

 

[amer]

just out of interest.


are you defining the inability by a coach to develop by the number of high picks that don't "make it" ?

I'm not having a crack here, but i'd love to understand how people judge a good developer of players.

Indeed, it's just as much about the recruiting department (which in the modern game is given the authority to make its own calls on who we pick up) selecting the right player as it is NC developing said player. You've got a pretty 2 dimensional way of looking at things there crow-mo.

 

[Mego Red]

he certainly is. just check out the 1st round picks he failed to develop.

Look, I get that you now have a complete hatred of Craig, and whether it is rational or not or for a longer discussion. The fact that he completely outcoached the opposition in his last three games is a tick, in my book.

But, even if his time HAS passed at the Crows - I don't think you could argue that he hasn't developed players well. Our strike rate with picks wouldn;t be worse than anyone elses.

 

[Jetwa5h]

Please do NOT, and I mean DO NOT compare Bock to Pavlich. They are not in the same league. Bock is good, Pavlich is great!

My point was Bock is chasing the dollars due to him sensing his body is on the way out, I believe also that Pav is also after that one big payday before he retires which is fine just not at the Crows thankyou

 

[Wood_Duck]

Sorry but NO chance!

Pavlich is on an entirely different level of talent than Bock. He is a much bigger gun regardless of how good Bock is.

Bock was and IMHO still is a GREAT CHB but Pavlich is a GREAT footballer. Play him anywhere FF, CHF, midfield, CHB, FB and he has the same impact. Something Bock could NEVER do.

Pav is the only man that has won AA selection as a forward, midfielder and defender. He is miles ahead of Bock.

It all comes down to how you measure it mate. I really cant argue with you as Pav has done everything you claim. To support my theory I have a handfull of "what iffs".

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Pav is the only man that has won AA selection as a forward, midfielder and defender. He is miles ahead of Bock.

Absolutely.

I know it would only be for 3 years but i wonder if those claiming it's a short sighted decision are valuing enough the leadership he would put into our young guys over that time.

We have no on-field leader that would come close to the influence Pavlich would have.

Walker, Tippett, Danger, Sloane, Mackay, Martin, Jaensch, and even the older Vince, Porps etc etc etc...all of them would benefit greatly from the Pav's presence.

Would we win the premiership in that time? Possibly in 2012-13. Still far from guaranteed.

But would Pav leave us closer to that point by his retirement, more so than we would have been by retaining pick 14 + decent level player +/- Griffin that it would take to get him? Or more so than Shannon Hurn?

Need to have a good chat to Rendell regarding his percieved value of our picks but i think it could be worth it.

I'd play Pav as a lead-up forward rotating to an outside midfielder role (like Knights and Hendo do)...provides the outside mid we need immediately and also a secure avenue to attack.


Realistically, IF Pav said i want to go to the Crows, what would we need to trade?

 

[Vader]

My point was Bock is chasing the dollars due to him sensing his body is on the way out, I believe also that Pav is also after that one big payday before he retires which is fine just not at the Crows thankyou

Maybe he is.. but there's little history of him missing games due to injury. He played 19 games in 2008 & 2009. Beyond that you have to go back to his debut season in 2000 to find the last time he played less than 20.

Then again, McLeod was able to manage his knee problems so that their disruption during the season was minimal - right up until the knee expired completely this year. There may be parallels between Macca's knee and Pav's shoulders, but I'm really not qualified to judge.

I know it would only be for 3 years but i wonder if those claiming it's a short sighted decision are valuing enough the leadership he would put into our young guys over that time.

We have no on-field leader that would come close to the influence Pavlich would have.

The onfield leadership is probably the biggest benefit to trading for him. I have no doubt at all that he would be elected Captain of the team for the duration of his career. Bad luck VB.

His retirement would coincide with Dangermouse coming into his prime - ready to be appointed as our next Captain.

This does away with the problem which people have been suggesting regarding the duration of VB's likely reign and the succession of Dangermouse to the throne thereafter.

Realistically, IF Pav said i want to go to the Crows, what would we need to trade?

Probably pick 14 + whatever we get in return for trading Knights.

There's no way we would be able to afford his salary if Knights stays. If Knights goes then we have the salaries of Bock + Knights, which would be more than enough to pay for Pav.

 

[Drakescoffeecake]

Any interest in Josh Hill from the doggies? Apparently unhappy.

 

[srv23]

My point was Bock is chasing the dollars due to him sensing his body is on the way out, I believe also that Pav is also after that one big payday before he retires which is fine just not at the Crows thankyou

But surely now that he's nearly eligible to be on Freo's veterans list, his best chance of a last contract payout is either with them since when he turns 30 only half his salary will count towards their cap, or with GC. There is no way we could offer him more money than them I would have thought. It must be about wanting to come home for some reason or another - family issues? wanting to fullfill a dream of playing for the club he grew up supporting? He has had plenty of oppurtunities to come home before - usually when we were going well and Freo were crap. It seems really strange to me that he would consider coming back to Adelaide now..

 

[KUNG FU]

Any interest in Josh Hill from the doggies? Apparently unhappy.

Mates with Aker. Fails the personality and basic intelligence test.

 

[Stiffy_18]

But surely now that he's nearly eligible to be on Freo's veterans list, his best chance of a last contract payout is either with them since when he turns 30 only half his salary will count towards their cap, or with GC. There is no way we could offer him more money than them I would have thought. It must be about wanting to come home for some reason or another - family issues? wanting to fullfill a dream of playing for the club he grew up supporting? He has had plenty of oppurtunities to come home before - usually when we were going well and Freo were crap. It seems really strange to me that he would consider coming back to Adelaide now..

Every time has has re-signed with Freo he has left the door open for a return to SA by saying that he would be interested in finishing career in SA.

I have no doubt that he would have some interest in finishing his career playing in SA but whether or not would that interest be strong enough to outweight the financial advantages of remaining with Freo or going to GC is another question.

Pav has been able to build a very successful portfolio for himself during his footy years (very similar to Roo and Goody in that regard) so financials might not come into it as much.

Having said that, last time Pavlich signed his contract with Freo, I said that we should forget about him all together because of his age. Pav will cost us a fortune both in terms of trade value and salary and I am not sure that would make us too much better.

I am also worried about what recruitment of Pavlich would do for development of Walker. The last thing we need to do is burn Walker for Pav and by that I mean, plug Pavlich at CHF and move Walker around until we frop him and he decides that its time to get a fresh start somewhere else.

I wouldn't mind getting Pavlich under these conditions:

1. He doesn't cost much in terms of trade (and I believe that at the very least he would be worth 2 first rounders)
2. We move Walker to FF and play Pavlich at CHF and move Tippett to Ruck.

Condition 2 would cover our weakness in ruck and as a result strengthen our team. We wouldn't lose anything in the forward line with Tippett moving to the ruck. You can still throw Tippett forward if you need to and long term I would still consider him as a forward but until Pav is producing maybe moving Tippett to ruck is not a bad idea.

Having said that, I am still very sceptical of this Pavlich talk. I think the ship has sailed and we shouldn't be going after him based on the cost-benefit assesment both in short and long term.

 

[feenix67]

He has had plenty of oppurtunities to come home before - usually when we were going well and Freo were crap. It seems really strange to me that he would consider coming back to Adelaide now..

Maybe he felt uncomfortable about leaving them when they were crap and so reliant upon him, whereas now they are much more even across their squad and less "Pav focussed". Perhaps he's more comfortable that leaving would not severely hamper their progress? Just a thought.

 

[sbenno]

Just out of interest, would Pav be eligible to go on the Vet's list, or does that have to be players that have played at the same club for a number of years?

Would be able to pay him alot more if he was eligible for that. Freo are probably doing the same though, so it probaby makes no difference.

 

[srv23]

Every time has has re-signed with Freo he has left the door open for a return to SA by saying that he would be interested in finishing career in SA.

I have no doubt that he would have some interest in finishing his career playing in SA but whether or not would that interest be strong enough to outweight the financial advantages of remaining with Freo or going to GC is another question.

Pav has been able to build a very successful portfolio for himself during his footy years (very similar to Roo and Goody in that regard) so financials might not come into it as much.

Having said that, last time Pavlich signed his contract with Freo, I said that we should forget about him all together because of his age. Pav will cost us a fortune both in terms of trade value and salary and I am not sure that would make us too much better.

I am also worried about what recruitment of Pavlich would do for development of Walker. The last thing we need to do is burn Walker for Pav and by that I mean, plug Pavlich at CHF and move Walker around until we frop him and he decides that its time to get a fresh start somewhere else.

I wouldn't mind getting Pavlich under these conditions:

1. He doesn't cost much in terms of trade (and I believe that at the very least he would be worth 2 first rounders)
2. We move Walker to FF and play Pavlich at CHF and move Tippett to Ruck.

Condition 2 would cover our weakness in ruck and as a result strengthen our team. We wouldn't lose anything in the forward line with Tippett moving to the ruck. You can still throw Tippett forward if you need to and long term I would still consider him as a forward but until Pav is producing maybe moving Tippett to ruck is not a bad idea.

Having said that, I am still very sceptical of this Pavlich talk. I think the ship has sailed and we shouldn't be going after him based on the cost-benefit assesment both in short and long term.

I agree with this. I really believe the ship has sailed with Pav. I know he'd arrive and automatically be our best player but:

Up forward I'd much rather develop our 10 year forward line around Tippett, Walker, Hendo, Knights, Porps rather than either leaving someone like Walker out of the side (just ripe for Shhedy's picking at the end of next year) or moving Tippett into ruck. While a Pav, Tex forward line with Tippett in ruck sounds good in theory, in 3 or 4 years when Pav goes we have to restructure again. Might as well get the young boys used to playing up there together now.

Down back - We could use him as an attacking CHB, l;eaving Truck at FB and Davis another year or 2 to play the third tall type role and have some spells up forward. Personally I'd rather throw the CHB role to Davis and get a Talia or McKernan or Sellar into the side as a third tall. Davis seems like someone who would thrive on the extra responsibilty.

In the midfield - IMO this is where we could really use Pav as a big body around some of our younger guys. It is one area where we have a deficiency of elite or potentially elite players. I'm not sure however that this is where Pav would see himself playing in the last few years of his career. I would have thought he'd want to be playing mostly forward with maybe short runs through the middle if required.

In the long term is Pav going to offer as much as getting a quality young midfielder in the first round of this draft. I'd get him if we could get him cheap in a trade (not going to happen) and for him to not take up so much of the salary cap that we struggle to keep our young quality players - eg Knights.

 

[MattyB_76]

memo to NC

maybe the best way to overcome an inexeperience forward line is to keep playing them so they can gain experience

The simplest solutions are often hidden ... "right in front of me".

 

[Vader]

Just out of interest, would Pav be eligible to go on the Vet's list, or does that have to be players that have played at the same club for a number of years?

Would be able to pay him alot more if he was eligible for that. Freo are probably doing the same though, so it probaby makes no difference.

There are currently 2 requirements for veteran listing status:

• The player must have served 10+ years with the club.
• The player must be aged 30+.

What I'm not 100% certain of is the cutoff date for the age criteria. Pav turns 30 on New Years Eve 2011. He MAY be eligible for Freo's veterans list in 2010, or he may have to wait until 2011.

Either way, he'll never be eligible for veteran listing with the AFC.

 

[sbenno]

Pretty big incentive for Pav to stay at Freo then, considering the opportunity for a MUCH bigger pay packet lies in WA.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Pretty big incentive for Pav to stay at Freo then, considering the opportunity for a MUCH bigger pay packet lies in WA.

Not really!

Pav will get what he will get and that from his perspective is not impacted by the veteran's list.

Lets say Pavlich will get $1million per season. He will still get his $1million regardless of whether or not he is a veteran listed player or not.

Freo won't offer him $2million per season just because he is a veteran listed player. His salary will have a cap on it (it won't be an open cheque book).

It only helps Freo that half of Pav's salry will fall inside the salary cap and the other half can be paid outiside the cap.

For Pav it has no bearing because Freo won't all of a sudden double his pay just to keep him!

 

[crowman86]

Rowe just said on AA that he has heard from his source that GC is offering Pav 1.1 mill on a 3 year contract, Collingwood offering him 1 mill (would send Cloke over as part of a trade) and Crows are putting 800k on the table. Apparently his management said to Crows if you put the offer up a bit more than he will be a Crow next year. Take it with a grain of salt but there are definate whispers that he could be on his way home..

 

[Malibu#27]

The latest Steven Rowe rumour is that Pav is interested in returning.....

He reckons:

1) Gold Coast have offered him $1.1M per year over 3 years.
2) Collingwood have offered him $900K per year.
3) The Crows have offered him $800K per year over 3 years.
4) His preferred destination is Adelaide, but wants them to cough up another $200K per year.
5) Crows and Freo agreed to Crows first 2 picks, griffen, and another undisclosed player.

Take it as you like, but he also reckons Alistair Clarkson either met with Port in Melbourne today or is on a plane to Adelaide as we speak. So it looks like its his typical star-gazing.

 

[WALL-e]

The latest Steven Rowe rumour is that Pav is interested in returning.....

He reckons:

1) Gold Coast have offered him $1.1M per year over 3 years.
2) Collingwood have offered him $900K per year.
3) The Crows have offered him $800K per year over 3 years.
4) His preferred destination is Adelaide, but wants them to cough up another $200K per year.
5) Crows and Freo agreed to Crows first 2 picks, griffen, and another undisclosed player.

Take it as you like, but he also reckons Alistair Clarkson either met with Port in Melbourne today or is on a plane to Adelaide as we speak. So it looks like its his typical star-gazing.

Hmmm, that's giving up a bit for the Pav @ 27 going on 28.

Would be a tremendous teacher to Tex, Tip, Philthy and Smack Daddy though.

 

[Stiffy_18]

The latest Steven Rowe rumour is that Pav is interested in returning.....

He reckons:

1) Gold Coast have offered him $1.1M per year over 3 years.
2) Collingwood have offered him $900K per year.
3) The Crows have offered him $800K per year over 3 years.
4) His preferred destination is Adelaide, but wants them to cough up another $200K per year.
5) Crows and Freo agreed to Crows first 2 picks, griffen, and another undisclosed player.

Take it as you like, but he also reckons Alistair Clarkson either met with Port in Melbourne today or is on a plane to Adelaide as we speak. So it looks like its his typical star-gazing.

So in other words we are not going to get him considering that we would never in a million years offer $1million to anyone!

It would have to be a MAJOR marketing component outside the cap at which point it becomes potential salary cap tampering!

And the undisclosed player would have to be someone pretty good for the money to add up! Who that player is depends on whether or not this trade is worth it!

But you are right, its probably more of Rowe's bullshit than anything concrete.

 

[Heafy83]

The latest Steven Rowe rumour is that Pav is interested in returning.....

He reckons:

1) Gold Coast have offered him $1.1M per year over 3 years.
2) Collingwood have offered him $900K per year.
3) The Crows have offered him $800K per year over 3 years.
4) His preferred destination is Adelaide, but wants them to cough up another $200K per year.
5) Crows and Freo agreed to Crows first 2 picks, griffen, and another undisclosed player.

Take it as you like, but he also reckons Alistair Clarkson either met with Port in Melbourne today or is on a plane to Adelaide as we speak. So it looks like its his typical star-gazing.

I heard the same declaration by Rowey. To me its way too much. We don't desperately need a forward like Pav. Don't get me wrong he is a brilliant player and would be an asset to our team but I'm not sure for that price he is worth it. I would rather splash out on something we really need like a grade A ruckman ie Dean Cox.
I would say another $100k and we could get Pav across anyways. Cost of living here is no where near that of GC and Melb. But 2 drafts picks Griff and another player???
If this is true then i comend the adelaide board for sticking by their word and giving it a red hot go.
The question you have to ask yoruself though is..... would Pav win us a premiership before he retires? (anywhere between 3-5 years time). To me by himself its no. If we were able to get an A grade ruckman like Cox then i would say yes.

 

[Heafy83]

So in other words we are not going to get him considering that we would never in a million years offer $1million to anyone!

It would have to be a MAJOR marketing component outside the cap at which point it becomes potential salary cap tampering!

And the undisclosed player would have to be someone pretty good for the money to add up! Who that player is depends on whether or not this trade is worth it!

But you are right, its probably more of Rowe's bullshit than anything concrete.

If they are offering $800k already then going to $1mill really aint that much different. Plus i think other AFL clubs can pay players a marketing fee now too like the GC are, this would help with salary cap problems.