D4 2011 - Part 2

[Squidda]

I will take the risk of being abused. You are thinking it I write write it.

Listened to the vote count on 96.5

Dima a worthy winner. Best player I saw running around this season. BUT..........

To have a Chaddy player run second is, IMHO, a terrible blight on the competition. Some of the votes he received were what only can be described as laughable. Now please, before you start, nothing against the player whatsoever. We all know some of the umps in D4 have trouble giving 1 correct decision per game - do you think they got confused (more than likely) or were the votes given to Chadstone players pity votes?

Do you think a Melbourne player will get a vote in the Brownlow down at Skilled Stadium this year?

Just to recap - Chadstone did not win 1 game this year and finished with a percentage of 22.84!!!!!!!!

I look forward to the politically correct howl downs!

I totally agree, you can't not win a game all year and poll 18 votes, no disrespect to the player at all. I can understand maybe sneaking a vote when they lost by 11 to Manningham but you can't be that good when your team is getting flogged by 100+ almost every week. and he got best on in 4 games?

 

[Squidda]

And if i am reading correctly, he polled 3 against Swinburne when they lost 31.25.211 to 4.2.26. Swinburne had almost more behinds they they kicked in total and a bloke kicked 10 goals!!!

 

[NealCaffrey]

Just thought I would put out some early thoughts about the finals contenders in both divisons. These are obviously an outsiders view, so I would love to get some feedback from the boys involved at the clubs and get their thoughts. Should be a very close finals series in the seniors with SFX just a bit ahead of the pack, while I think SM and EP are the favourites in the reserves.

Reserves

St Francis Xavier

Good across the board with some fleet of foot midfielders and some good tall forwards. Probably just making up the numbers at this stage.

Gun Player - Chin
Others to Watch - Dapiran, Manno

Long time reader, first time poster. I enjoyed your quote buck101 and im looking forward to watching those players and the rest on saturday and sunday in some beautiful winter(summer) weather. The only player i cant figure out is "Manno" from St Francis. Does anyone know this actual players name?

Tips:

Seniors:
XMEN to do it easy over The Uni Boys (10 Goals)
Eley Park to send Richmond out (3 Goals)

Reserves:
Richmond to just get over the line against South Mornington (2 Goals)
Eley Park will send XMEN out (7 Goals)

 

[Morgberg]

Cisco was a very worthy second place getter, he has polled well for 4 or 5 years. He was our highest vote poller last season, and also made the D4 team of the year back in 2007 on the back flank. So he has been there abouts for a long time.

He polled 1 vote 6 times which would of rightly been the only votes Chadstone polled in those games, but there were 4 or 5 games I can think of when he was the best midfielder on ground.

Reguarly getting 35 to 40 touches, he carries the ball and plays with a lot of flair, which is why he has polled so well. Hence it is no surpise to anyone from our club that he recieved 4 Best on Grounds.

Some examples of this are our recent losses agasint BHN and NB, he was clearly the best player on the ground in both these matches, despite the final margin blowing out in the second half.

 

[MrFroffy80]

Cisco was a very worthy second place getter, he has polled well for 4 or 5 years. He was our highest vote poller last season, and also made the D4 team of the year back in 2007 on the back flank. So he has been there abouts for a long time.

He polled 1 vote 6 times which would of rightly been the only votes Chadstone polled in those games, but there were 4 or 5 games I can think of when he was the best midfielder on ground.

Reguarly getting 35 to 40 touches, he carries the ball and plays with a lot of flair, which is why he has polled so well. Hence it is no surpise to anyone from our club that he recieved 4 Best on Grounds.

Some examples of this are our recent losses agasint BHN and NB, he was clearly the best player on the ground in both these matches, despite the final margin blowing out in the second half.

Seems a bit strange to poll as many votes, BUT I'm sure Dimma did win the D3 B&F last year after SFX won only 1 game??

 

[bigwaz]

He has been a good player for Syndal for years. There was another bloke there for a few years with a pony tail, was also pretty handy... He didn't play this year?

 

[HarveyWallbanger]

Cisco was a very worthy second place getter, he has polled well for 4 or 5 years. He was our highest vote poller last season, and also made the D4 team of the year back in 2007 on the back flank. So he has been there abouts for a long time.

He polled 1 vote 6 times which would of rightly been the only votes Chadstone polled in those games, but there were 4 or 5 games I can think of when he was the best midfielder on ground.

Reguarly getting 35 to 40 touches, he carries the ball and plays with a lot of flair, which is why he has polled so well. Hence it is no surpise to anyone from our club that he recieved 4 Best on Grounds.

Some examples of this are our recent losses agasint BHN and NB, he was clearly the best player on the ground in both these matches, despite the final margin blowing out in the second half.

Fiddlesticks.
Pity votes.
Agree if close game might get some votes, but getting beaten by 150+ and getting 3 votes is a complete sham.
Again, I repeat, nothing against the player.

I think it highlights that most of the umpires in D4 have no clue whatsoever............

 

[InFineForm]

I think it highlights that most of the umpires in D4 have no clue whatsoever............

Harvey - not the first time I have to disagree with you.

It's too easy to criticise the umpires here. How many Chaddy games did you see? The best & fairest is a B&F - if an umpire believes that they are in the best & fairest 3 on the field they deserve a vote. As to their decision making, I think you're OTT in your criticism.

I have to wonder how many games you've umpired?

 

[Norfolk & Clew]

Harvey - not the first time I have to disagree with you.

It's too easy to criticise the umpires here. How many Chaddy games did you see? The best & fairest is a B&F - if an umpire believes that they are in the best & fairest 3 on the field they deserve a vote. As to their decision making, I think you're OTT in your criticism.

I have to wonder how many games you've umpired?

I have to agree with Harvey regarding blokes getting votes in a 100+ loss on a regular basis. Yes he generally plays well for Chaddy and it is nothing against Cisco whatsoever but I could almost guarantee that there are 3 better players from the winning team than him each time.

As you said though, it is the umpires choice, maybe they like to pick at least one player from both clubs? IMHO teams winning by 100+ points should get all 3 of the votes most of the time.

That said, no need to criticise the umpires, everyone has differing opinions.

 

[InFineForm]

That said, no need to criticise the umpires, everyone has differing opinions.

That's my main point. I'm not certain I disagree with the best players generally being on the best team & that this is generally exaggerated in large losses.

It will be interesting as a point of reference to see how Gazza junior fares in the Brownlow this year.

 

[Norfolk & Clew]

That's my main point. I'm not certain I disagree with the best players generally being on the best team & that this is generally exaggerated in large losses.

It will be interesting as a point of reference to see how Gazza junior fares in the Brownlow this year.

Was thinking the same thing!

 

[HarveyWallbanger]

That's my main point. I'm not certain I disagree with the best players generally being on the best team & that this is generally exaggerated in large losses.

It will be interesting as a point of reference to see how Gazza junior fares in the Brownlow this year.

I'm the first to pat the umps on the back for a good job. But like players, they should not be adverse to recognising ordinary or bad performances. Look at the barrage bigwaz cops!!!!!!

My point is they have a difficult enough time of umpiring (and yes we play D4 and not expecting AFL standard umpires) but when they give 3 votes to a bloke in a team that has been beaten by 150+, I reckon it is plain and simple pity votes. Or they are just taking the p*ss.

There are no other explanations for it.

The umpires see a chaddy player pick up the ball once and they must have had a good game.

The inability to recognise a team that smashes the opposition is disgraceful. Swinburn - they kicked 31.25 and Chad total score was 26 points. 3 votes given to Chad player!!!! How can that be? I'm sure if Chad player had been in the midfield or back his opponent would have beaten him???? He couldn't have played forward because the ball wouldn't have got down there!!!!!!!!!

It devalues and degrades the award. Again, i will repeat before I get verbally smashed, not having a go at the player.

And yes IFF, I am having a go at the umpires - why shouldn't I when this type of blatant rubbish sticks out like dog b*lls?

Will be interesting to see the votes for Geel v Melb (186 point smashing). IFF, care to have a wager with me the Geelong players get 3, 2 and 1????? Although Jared Rivers did play back and touched the ball...........

 

[Trade Bait]

The Melbourne analogy is a really good one. I would suggest in all the games Chadstone were on the receiving end of sub 120 point defeats, there is no way any of their players could be the BEST player on the ground.

 

[bob29305]

Interesting to see the vafa is making both teams wear alternate strips in the SM v RC game, so there is gonna be 36 blokes running around with the big V on the front and yellow and black socks, doesn't make any sense???? After they moved us to Sunday and this there's only the double chance left as an advantage for finishing on top which second gets as well!!! Is this the case in the SFX v Swinny game also???

 

[daicos4ever]

Interesting to see the vafa is making both teams wear alternate strips in the SM v RC game, so there is gonna be 36 blokes running around with the big V on the front and yellow and black socks, doesn't make any sense???? After they moved us to Sunday and this there's only the double chance left as an advantage for finishing on top which second gets as well!!! Is this the case in the SFX v Swinny game also???

Surely the highest qualifying team should wear their home jumper?

As for my main man Cisco, I think it's reasonable for people who haven't seen him play on a regular basis cry pity votes, but this bloke performs every single time he steps on the fields of d4 in a team that struggled for years, has never taken a step back and leads the club brilliantly.

The umpires should be commended for recognising the contribution he makes to not only Chaddy but the division as a whole, on the field and off too.

 

[Ruck Machine]

Well at least the umps got the correct winner!

Cisco getting 18 votes is way over the top! 9-12 votes would be a more realistic number ... lots of 1 voters.

As for SM and RC having to wear alternatives strips. Top Side should wear their home strip ... they did finish on top! VAFA being dumb again!

 

[nellup]

Harvey,I have tried to stay out of this but,"D4 umpires have trouble making one correct decision in a game",votes are "blatant rubbish"!!!!!!!!

Many of the now D4 umps umpired a lot,lot ,higher not so long ago,all are observed by very experienced people and if they were as bad as you claim they would not be umpiring,as for the votes,many times I have seen players from weaker sides dominate their positions,should we ignore them because their side is beaten? Umps after the game doing votes discuss and compare each others quarter by quarter notes and then make their decision.

Mate before you start jumping on Umps you should hear some of the questions I get asked on field by players who have been playing for years,your head would shake as mine does and you would ask yourself as I do,"do they know the rules of the game they are playing?

An open invitation,run a practice game with me next year I will arrange it, and we will see if you know the rules and how good your decision making is.I doubt you will do it because unlike you I don't hide behind anonymous ID's on here

Tugger

 

[Ruck Machine]

Harvey,I have tried to stay out of this but,"D4 umpires have trouble making one correct decision in a game",votes are "blatant rubbish"!!!!!!!!

Many of the now D4 umps umpired a lot,lot ,higher not so long ago,all are observed by very experienced people and if they were as bad as you claim they would not be umpiring,as for the votes,many times I have seen players from weaker sides dominate their positions,should we ignore them because their side is beaten? Umps after the game doing votes discuss and compare each others quarter by quarter notes and then make their decision.

Mate before you start jumping on Umps you should hear some of the questions I get asked on field by players who have been playing for years,your head would shake as mine does and you would ask yourself as I do,"do they know the rules of the game they are playing?

An open invitation,run a practice game with me next year I will arrange it, and we will see if you know the rules and how good your decision making is.I doubt you will do it because unlike you I don't hide behind anonymous ID's on here

Tugger

This coming from an umpire who 'bet' that Chadstone would win a game this season ... I wonder what will happen when I compare Cisco's votes to games you umpired ...

 

[InFineForm]

This coming from an umpire who 'bet' that Chadstone would win a game this season ... I wonder what will happen when I compare Cisco's votes to games you umpired ...

LOLZ - no C. Liston 3 votes coming your way from Tugger in future!!!!!

I'm pretty sure that most of us on here have wondered over one or 2 (or more) of Tuggers decisions over the years. I certainly have.

He does however get massive kudos from me for putting his nuts on the block & giving it a go. Which is far more than the vast majority of umpire bashers on here do.

 

[HarveyWallbanger]

LOLZ - no C. Liston 3 votes coming your way from Tugger in future!!!!!

I'm pretty sure that most of us on here have wondered over one or 2 (or more) of Tuggers decisions over the years. I certainly have.

He does however get massive kudos from me for putting his nuts on the block & giving it a go. Which is far more than the vast majority of umpire bashers on here do.

Again IFF, umpire bashing, or as I like to put it, "highlighting inconsistencies", is sometimes warranted. Just like players when they make mistakes. Nowdays we tend (or are asked) to treat umpires as protected species and beyond criticism........

Ruck Machine, good point, but I think the intentions in that bet were honourable - Nellup, for all his umpiring "quirks", is a half decent bloke.

If players are asking you on field about the rules Pete, it would be interesting to see if you give correct answers!!!!! I have seen some rippers and subsequent explanations from you!

All attention now to see the full votes (as I was only listening to radio) schedule when posted. If my memory serves me correct, it will be another opportunity to fire a volley at the umpires.......

Again, and I repeat just for those that want to have a crack, not having a go at the player, but to have a bloke run second in the competition B&F when his team didn't win a game and finished with a percentage of 22% is a joke. Was it because he shook the umpires hand at the start of the game and therefore received the pity votes???

It does the competition no favours and would be looked upon by those outside the VAFA as a complete and utter farce.

IFF - you don't want to take me up on the Melb v Geel brownlow bet??? Just a beer at the next Manningham game - I'll seek you out.

 

[Morgberg]

“Yes he generally plays well for Chaddy and it is nothing against Cisco whatsoever but I could almost guarantee that there are 3 better players from the winning team than him each time.”

“My point is they have a difficult enough time of umpiring (and yes we play D4 and not expecting AFL standard umpires) but when they give 3 votes to a bloke in a team that has been beaten by 150+, I reckon it is plain and simple pity votes. Or they are just taking the p*ss. “

Comments such as the above claim to be no offence to the Cisco, but they completely undervalue his performance this season. The term “pity votes” is just a cheap insult; it demeans both Cisco and the Umpires in charge.

There is no reason that Cisco wasn’t in the best 3 players regularly this season despite the loosing margins. He would almost always beat this opponent 1 on 1, and was regularly tagged in the return matches such was his influence in games. The issue with Chaddy more this season then anything is depth outside our top 10 players. Our challenge is to build another core of 5-10 solid 1’s players to add to what we have. Our top 3-5 players would rival most clubs in D4.

Bigwaz, the guy with the pony tail who has been playing for years is club stalwart Rossy Bennet, played his 259th and possibly last game in the final round. Hopefully he goes around 1 more season, as he offers valuable leadership and experience to a developing side.

 

[HarveyWallbanger]

“Yes he generally plays well for Chaddy and it is nothing against Cisco whatsoever but I could almost guarantee that there are 3 better players from the winning team than him each time.”

“My point is they have a difficult enough time of umpiring (and yes we play D4 and not expecting AFL standard umpires) but when they give 3 votes to a bloke in a team that has been beaten by 150+, I reckon it is plain and simple pity votes. Or they are just taking the p*ss. “

Comments such as the above claim to be no offence to the Cisco, but they completely undervalue his performance this season. The term “pity votes” is just a cheap insult; it demeans both Cisco and the Umpires in charge.

There is no reason that Cisco wasn’t in the best 3 players regularly this season despite the loosing margins. He would almost always beat this opponent 1 on 1, and was regularly tagged in the return matches such was his influence in games. The issue with Chaddy more this season then anything is depth outside our top 10 players. Our challenge is to build another core of 5-10 solid 1’s players to add to what we have. Our top 3-5 players would rival most clubs in D4.

Bigwaz, the guy with the pony tail who has been playing for years is club stalwart Rossy Bennet, played his 259th and possibly last game in the final round. Hopefully he goes around 1 more season, as he offers valuable leadership and experience to a developing side.

Morgberg, now it might be you taking the p*ss.

Would be interesting to know any team that has tagged a Chadstone player in the last 3 years. Beats his opponent every week? The last 6 games I have witnessed this has not been the case.

Cisco has been a stalwart of Chaddy and a solid player in a terrible team that has been flogged week in week out. Whether that should translate to votes in a best afield scenario - I highly doubt it.

BTW, it was fantastic to see the latter half results and some competitive games from Chadstone - will be a better competiton for it.

And yes - my comments are meant to demean the umpires because it is a complete and utter farce that they give 3 votes (x4!) to a player whose team was beaten by 150+ points nearly every week!!!!

Would you care to take up IFF bet (Melb v Geel) with me? Because IFF has gone silent. Just a stubbie of Boags finest.......

 

[Norfolk & Clew]

“Yes he generally plays well for Chaddy and it is nothing against Cisco whatsoever but I could almost guarantee that there are 3 better players from the winning team than him each time.”

“My point is they have a difficult enough time of umpiring (and yes we play D4 and not expecting AFL standard umpires) but when they give 3 votes to a bloke in a team that has been beaten by 150+, I reckon it is plain and simple pity votes. Or they are just taking the p*ss. “

Comments such as the above claim to be no offence to the Cisco, but they completely undervalue his performance this season. The term “pity votes” is just a cheap insult; it demeans both Cisco and the Umpires in charge.

There is no reason that Cisco wasn’t in the best 3 players regularly this season despite the loosing margins. He would almost always beat this opponent 1 on 1, and was regularly tagged in the return matches such was his influence in games. The issue with Chaddy more this season then anything is depth outside our top 10 players. Our challenge is to build another core of 5-10 solid 1’s players to add to what we have. Our top 3-5 players would rival most clubs in D4.

Bigwaz, the guy with the pony tail who has been playing for years is club stalwart Rossy Bennet, played his 259th and possibly last game in the final round. Hopefully he goes around 1 more season, as he offers valuable leadership and experience to a developing side.

I by no means am undervaluing Cisco's performaces this season, both times I saw him play against RCAFC I thought he played well and was easily one of Chaddy's best players. That being said though in my opinion (and thats all it is) he wouldn't have warranted any votes as we won both games comprehensively.

I don't know if he got votes against us or not but that is what I am basing my opinion on knowing that other games against other teams were most likely very similar.

 

[HarveyWallbanger]

I by no means am undervaluing Cisco's performaces this season, both times I saw him play against RCAFC I thought he played well and was easily one of Chaddy's best players. That being said though in my opinion (and thats all it is) he wouldn't have warranted any votes as we won both games comprehensively.

I don't know if he got votes against us or not but that is what I am basing my opinion on knowing that other games against other teams were most likely very similar.

And that would be the general state of play Norfolk.

But the umpires are a special breed.......

 

[InFineForm]

IFF - you don't want to take me up on the Melb v Geel brownlow bet??? Just a beer at the next Manningham game - I'll seek you out.

Happy to buy you a beer - don't think there's any votes coming Melbourne's way out of that game! (You might struggle to find me though - not around all that much any more!)