Dawes VS Draft

[100action]

He'll kick 40+ goals for you next year if the trade goes through. People seem to forget how bloody good he was through 2010-11. Stick him in the goalsquare, instead of making him play some quasi-3rd tall/ruck/midfield hybrid and he'll thrive eg. Mitch Clark this year when he was finally made the main figure in an attack.

LOL dawes couldnt kick 30 with silk delivery from Didak, Thomas, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Davis, Shaw, Johnson in their primes whilst taking left over trash defenders when Cloke has 3-4 of them on him.

What makes you think a team renowned for being the worst disposal by foot team in the league will give a lead and mark on the chest forward like Dawes a greater output?

 

[Zephiisdaman]

I don't know about this trade. Reported we give up pick 21 and 41, receive Dawes and a mid 30s pick. So if true we get Dawess for Lake and a slight upgrade in second rounders. Is that right?

 

[josh the gent]

LOL dawes couldnt kick 30 with silk delivery from Didak, Thomas, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Davis, Shaw, Johnson in their primes whilst taking left over trash defenders when Cloke has 3-4 of them on him.

What makes you think a team renowned for being the worst disposal by foot team in the league will give a lead and mark on the chest forward like Dawes a greater output?

Because he kicked 57 goals in 2010-11 whilst playing as the second-forward, AND, the Malthouse game plan wasn't exactly based on free-flowing, laces-out delivery to its forwards.

As the primary forward, who knows what he'd be capable of?

Clearly he is not suited to playing as a second-ruck (which is fine by us with Cordy and Roughead in the team), a role which stripped him of his confidence in 2012.

Basically he is at the bottom of his value now, and that is the only reason why 21 + 47 would even be considered for him - this deal would have been laughed at last year.

I just don't get why there is sooooo much anti-Dawes sentiment on our boards...

 

[Macca19]

LOL dawes couldnt kick 30 with silk delivery from Didak, Thomas, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Davis, Shaw, Johnson in their primes whilst taking left over trash defenders when Cloke has 3-4 of them on him.

What makes you think a team renowned for being the worst disposal by foot team in the league will give a lead and mark on the chest forward like Dawes a greater output?

Clark had one 'ok' year as a forward with Brisbane with a bunch of great kicks in their midfield before going to the worst club in the land and kicking 30 goals in half a year and probably would have made AA had he not missed the 2nd half of the season.

I reckon he'll star being put in the goal front.

 

[Mutt]

I don't know about this trade. Reported we give up pick 21 and 41, receive Dawes and a mid 30s pick. So if true we get Dawess for Lake and a slight upgrade in second rounders. Is that right?

There are a lot of contradictory rumors about what the possible trade involves Zeph.

 

[Ghenghis]

Dawes to us is not a 'Bad' move as long as we don't get screwed on the deal. He will not be the solution to all our problems up forward but he does actually add some positives to it.
He is a big, mature body which automatically takes pressure off Jones/Cordy etc. It will also add some confidence to the entire forward line knowing that he has the ability to hit a pack and at least contest to get the ball to ground.
He still has a reasonable amount of playing time left (not just 2-3 years) so it gives him a chance to become the elder statesman amongst the forwards whilst we hopefully uncover a gem or two supporting him.
No draft deal is without risk but, given what we know on this one, it is worth having a punt on.

 

[CrozaN]

I for one am excited to potentially have Dawes at our club. GET IT DONE DOGS!

Hopefully if we offer 21 + 41, we get Dawes + a mid 30's pick...that is not bad...better than JUST Dawes.

 

[Mofra]

I don't know about this trade. Reported we give up pick 21 and 41, receive Dawes and a mid 30s pick. So if true we get Dawess for Lake and a slight upgrade in second rounders. Is that right?

Something liek that.

Given Dawes is a better forward than Lake (who was not going to play fullback next year) and 7 years younger, and we upgrade a 2nd rounder, we'd be ahead during the trade period on balance.

 

[TedDougChris]

Because he kicked 57 goals in 2010-11 whilst playing as the second-forward, AND, the Malthouse game plan wasn't exactly based on free-flowing, laces-out delivery to its forwards.

As the primary forward, who knows what he'd be capable of?

What did you see last year that would make you describe our game style as free-flowing.... ??

I'd much rather take a punt on improving through the draft than on a 'who knows if he is capable of being the key forward' type player....

 

[dogsbody]

According to the Hun, it's by no means a done deal with Carlton preferred by Dawes and Melbourne with pick 20.

 

[JJHunter]

Draft for me too.

Other wise what was the point in trading lake.
McCartney was quick to gloat that we got something for lake - that was a move from 27 to 21 ultimately.
So if we now turn around and use 21 on Dawes (when we could have just used pick 27 and kept lake) would be stupid.

I would rather take the punt in the draft as I am sure we couldn't do any worse.
Dawes played ok as a clubs 3rd forward, and was ordinary as its 2nd best forward.
What is he going to be like as the primary forward in a team that battles like we are going to.
And dont any supporter say we are not going to battle. Our own coach said we wont be finalists for 5-6 years.

So lets have a crack at the draft - we couldnt do any worse that what we already have to dawes anyway.

 

[blowesy]

The only pressure he will be taking off Jones is the critism he will recieve in the media!
How your key forward can kick less goals than games played is beyond a joke!

 

[josh the gent]

What did you see last year that would make you describe our game style as free-flowing.... ??

I'd much rather take a punt on improving through the draft than on a 'who knows if he is capable of being the key forward' type player....

Where did I say we have a free-flowing style?

I said Collingwood in 2010 and 2011 didn't have a free-flowing style.

 

[TedDougChris]

Where did I say we have a free-flowing style?

I said Collingwood in 2010 and 2011 didn't have a free-flowing style.

I know that. But we also don't have one. So as the sole target man in a slow moving, poorly skilled kicking group, how well is he going to go ??

 

[Mutt]

Draft for me too.

Other wise what was the point in trading lake.
McCartney was quick to gloat that we got something for lake - that was a move from 27 to 21 ultimately.
So if we now turn around and use 21 on Dawes (when we could have just used pick 27 and kept lake) would be stupid.

I would rather take the punt in the draft as I am sure we couldn't do any worse.
Dawes played ok as a clubs 3rd forward, and was ordinary as its 2nd best forward.
What is he going to be like as the primary forward in a team that battles like we are going to.
And dont any supporter say we are not going to battle. Our own coach said we wont be finalists for 5-6 years.

So lets have a crack at the draft - we couldnt do any worse that what we already have to dawes anyway.

Unfortunately the odds with later picks in the draft are that we will do worse than Dawes. If we get Dawes he is likely to play 80 to 100 games or more for us. The chances of getting a 100-gamer with pick 21 (will end up being pick 22) are significantly lower.

I don't think it looks likely we'll get Dawes by the way, so it may be a lot of stress over nothing. My money is now on Carlton to get Dawes.

 

[Ant_]

Something liek that.

Given Dawes is a better forward than Lake (who was not going to play fullback next year) and 7 years younger, and we upgrade a 2nd rounder, we'd be ahead during the trade period on balance.

I'm more ok with this having the 39 back our way. Hope he recaptures that 2010 form.

 

[TBOW]

My vote is draft with 21, but if we can land Dawes with a cobination of any of our other picks (not 5 & 6 obviously) I would be happy to take him.
That said if we got Dawes and a pick in the 30's for 21 & 41 I wouldn't be too upset.

 

[TMoney22]

Much prefer to draft Stringer at 6 and Membrey at 21 over Dawes. We can get another good mid next year. We will have Jones and Cordy around the forward line, we dont need another monster, yeah it may help us in the next year or 2 but that is just short sighted. We should be looking in 5 years time. Think of our forward line dynamic, Jones, Dawes, Grant and Cordy v's Jones, Stringer, Membrey, Grant, Cordy. The latter offers so much more

 

[CrozaN]

Draft for me too.

Other wise what was the point in trading lake.
McCartney was quick to gloat that we got something for lake - that was a move from 27 to 21 ultimately.
So if we now turn around and use 21 on Dawes (when we could have just used pick 27 and kept lake) would be stupid.

I would rather take the punt in the draft as I am sure we couldn't do any worse.
Dawes played ok as a clubs 3rd forward, and was ordinary as its 2nd best forward.
What is he going to be like as the primary forward in a team that battles like we are going to.
And dont any supporter say we are not going to battle. Our own coach said we wont be finalists for 5-6 years.

So lets have a crack at the draft - we couldnt do any worse that what we already have to dawes anyway.

Lake would have been a free agent next year and it was reported that he would have left. So basically instead of him walking away for free, we actually got something for him. No point keeping Lake, he wanted out and its perfect timing.

Much prefer to draft Stringer at 6 and Membrey at 21 over Dawes. We can get another good mid next year. We will have Jones and Cordy around the forward line, we dont need another monster, yeah it may help us in the next year or 2 but that is just short sighted. We should be looking in 5 years time. Think of our forward line dynamic, Jones, Dawes, Grant and Cordy v's Jones, Stringer, Membrey, Grant, Cordy. The latter offers so much more

Jones and Cordy? I am sorry they are no were near up to standard and Cordy will probably play more down back/ruck than forward. Jones needs someone like Dawes to help him to grow and become more experienced.

 

[JJHunter]

Lake would have been a free agent next year and it was reported that he would have left. So basically instead of him walking away for free, we actually got something for him. No point keeping Lake, he wanted out and its perfect timing.

What did we actually get for him ? Remember we gave back pick 27.
pick 21 unless we use it in the draft is just as good as pick 27 (which would have secured dawes anyway)
pick 41 which won;t be too far away from the compo pick we would have got for lake next year.

This is the point you are missing.
Let Lake go this year we get
..............1) 6 pick advance in the 20's (which basically become useless if used in dawes trade)
..............2) pick 41.
..............3) A message sent to our members that it is ok to leave a sinking ship for premierships.

Let Lake go next year we get -
................1) A mid 3rd round compo pick (Pick 45-55) as compo from the AFL
................2) Another year of Lakes service helping us be mildly competitive & retaining club attendnances
................3) A message sent to members that says we want you, we need you onboard to rebuild the club.

No one disputes that Lake going wasn't an overly bad thing.
We should have just pushed harder in negotiations, not caved on day 2 of 18 days of trade period, cause when you look at it we are really not much better off than had we been if we let him go a year later.

 

[Nath09]

Hawthorn were said to be the only club interested in Lake. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the trade begun being discussed 10 days before it was done. As has been said by other posters, waiting 16 more days wouldn't have made a lick of difference.

What you're also forgetting is that we offloaded his contract. If in the next couple of years we make a play for a young gun and land him, I hope people understanding that this trade is instrumental in us doing that.

 

[TedDougChris]

Hawthorn were said to be the only club interested in Lake. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the trade begun being discussed 10 days before it was done. As has been said by other posters, waiting 16 more days wouldn't have made a lick of difference.

What you're also forgetting is that we offloaded his contract. If in the next couple of years we make a play for a young gun and land him, I hope people understanding that this trade is instrumental in us doing that.

we don't know that - we may not have had to give up pick 27 if the Hawks had gotten worried they weren't going to get their man.....

But it's done now....

 

[stefoid]

There seems to be an unspoken assumption by the club that Lake was gone at the end of his contract next year - it was all "we will get not much for him next year".

Isnt the other option for the AA fullback to continue playing for us and retire at the age of 32/33 like Scarlett for the cats?

Apparently not... Which means (I assume) that Lake wasnt happy hanging around, or the coach was happy with him hanging around, in which case the trade makes perfect sense.

 

[Nath09]

Or they may not have and we would be stuck with a player who didn't want to be at the club.

You're right, it's done and we'll never know...

 

[Mofra]

The only pressure he will be taking off Jones is the critism he will recieve in the media!
How your key forward can kick less goals than games played is beyond a joke!

He hasn't though - when playing as a key forward in 2011 he kicked more than a goal per game.