Dawes VS Draft

[TedDougChris]

There seems to be an unspoken assumption by the club that Lake was gone at the end of his contract next year - it was all "we will get not much for him next year".

Isnt the other option for the AA fullback to continue playing for us and retire at the age of 32/33 like Scarlett for the cats?

Apparently not... Which means (I assume) that Lake wasnt happy hanging around, or the coach was happy with him hanging around, in which case the trade makes perfect sense.

Correct - O'keefe wanted out of Sydney a few years back and now......

 

[dogwatch]

Our own coach said we wont be finalists for 5-6 years.

OK I'm getting fed up with hearing this myth.
I agree with some of what you said Cyclops, and maybe you are just repeating what others have posted about BMac's speech, so I'm not really blaming you, but the above is NOT what BMac said. I just want us to work from the facts, not facebook-type rumours.

The more "we won't be finalists for 5-6 years" gets stated (misquoting BMac) the more currency and legitimacy it seems to get.

What he said (and I refer you to the vid on the WB website) is that it takes 5-6 years to build a team, 5-6 years from the time a player is drafted to be strong enough (both physically and mentally) to play the game at the level required to win a premiership. He didn't say we wouldn't be in the finals until 2017-18. And he didn't say "starting today". He said we have blooded 18 debutants in the last two seasons so the rebuild is already under way and has been for a year or two.

He didn't say the following but they are reasonable inferences from his address:

• We will still be crap in 2013 but look for more signs from some of the youngsters who will be very good players in a year or two.
• We should be very competitive in 2015 (maybe even 2014, but I'm not assuming that) and should be in the finals either in 2015 or 2016. That's 3-4 years from now.
• Our premiership window re-opens 2016 or 2017. That's 4-5 years from now.

Naturally a lot has to go right in that period as it does for any club to become a premiership contender but that's the long term planning he's talking about and the course we have to stay. He did say "there are no short term fixes" (or words to that effect).

[Hope you don't mind me getting in before you this time D_r_B! Maybe we should sticky it. I have a feeling we are going to have to say "go listen to his speech" a few more times yet.]

 

[Ant_]

The more "we won't be finalists for 5-6 years" gets stated (misquoting BMac) the more currency and legitimacy it seems to get.

Agreed.

I was there for the speech, he did not utter those words.

 

[Scotland]

Dawes vs draft?

Draft wins, flawless victory,

 

[blowesy]

He hasn't though - when playing as a key forward in 2011 he kicked more than a goal per game.

Liam Jones 9 goals...12 games??

 

[dogwatch]

Liam Jones 9 goals...12 games??

Are you two talking about the same player? Dawes 2011: 18 games, 27 goals.

 

[blowesy]

Are you two talking about the same player? Dawes 2011: 18 games, 27 goals.

Would I have said jones if i was talking about dawes??
My original comment was based on the fact people are saying it's good for a guy like jones to not take the nummber 1 man...its a pathetic excuse for a guy who is not up to AFL

 

[dogwatch]

Would I have said jones if i was talking about dawes??
My original comment was based on the fact people are saying it's good for a guy like jones to not take the nummber 1 man...its a pathetic excuse for a guy who is not up to AFL

I understand that but I think Mofra was talking about Dawes.
Anyway, I'll butt out. Mofra can speak for himself.

 

[TedDougChris]

Would I have said jones if i was talking about dawes??
My original comment was based on the fact people are saying it's good for a guy like jones to not take the nummber 1 man...its a pathetic excuse for a guy who is not up to AFL

It's actually an interesting point.

Assume that we dont get Dawes for a minute. If Jones, Cordy, Campbell etc all show nothing or no development next year as the key forward targets, prove to be inable to take on and beat a player of their size - should they be retained ??

You can make the argument that Campbell/Cordy/Roughie are ruckman/forwards, not the other way around (or backman in Roughies case).

But if none of our key forward targets proves capable next year without Dawes, have we been shown a truer assessment of their talents and worth to the list ?? Should they then be looked at for trades/delisting next year (ignoring contracts for a minute - theoretically only) ??

 

[blowesy]

It's actually an interesting point.

Assume that we dont get Dawes for a minute. If Jones, Cordy, Campbell etc all show nothing or no development next year as the key forward targets, prove to be inable to take on and beat a player of their size - should they be retained ??

You can make the argument that Campbell/Cordy/Roughie are ruckman/forwards, not the other way around (or backman in Roughies case).

But if none of our key forward targets proves capable next year without Dawes, have we been shown a truer assessment of their talents and worth to the list ?? Should they then be looked at for trades/delisting next year (ignoring contracts for a minute - theoretically only) ??

I think players like jarrod grant have already had enough time!!

 

[chop0205]

Dawes has a hint macdougal about it for me, he ain't the messiah and won't be around in 2016 in my opinion.

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

Photoshopped this quickly earlier today when it was "apparently" a done deal lol.

Doesn't look too bad, I could get used to it. Who knows where the guy will end up.

 

[Dazb86]

Photoshopped this quickly earlier today when it was "apparently" a done deal lol.

Doesn't look too bad, I could get used to it. Who knows where the guy will end up.

Haha seeing that has made me warm a little more to the trade.

But seriously. The guy is very very average.

 

[Mofra]

Are you two talking about the same player? Dawes 2011: 18 games, 27 goals.

Yup - Dawes is ahead of all our forwards. I was speaking about Dawes - kicks more than a goal per game when playing as a forward, which is a different role to 2012

 

[cammo78]

Dawes has a hint macdougal about it for me, he ain't the messiah and won't be around in 2016 in my opinion.

Dawes >>>> Princess McDougall

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I think it would be Dawes to Carlton to be under his old coach Malthouse, dumb deal for Carlton who are pressing for a flag if you ask me.

He would have been ok giving some coverage to our young developing forwards, and would have had a lot more opportunities with us, but oh well that's it. Hope we use #21 to draft another goal-kicking midfielder.

 

[dogwatch]

I'm worried now. Had finally got my head around to accepting we could burn pick 21 on Dawes.
If it falls through I will lie awake at night now, wondering who else we might try to squander it on ... Toy? Stevens? Jacobs? Russell? AAAARRRGGH! It just gets worse!

 

[Igloo]

Would laugh if Carlton gave pick 11 for Dawes. Would laugh a lot. Deal would probably be Warnock and 2nd or 3rd rounder, but still

 

[Sharkey66]

For those saying we would be unlikely to pick up a good player at 21 in the draft remind me what pick we got Talia for in the last draft.

 

[EASTWESTDOGS]

if we draft Stringer then we won't need to get Dawes

I don't think the dogs will draft Stringer we never draft key forwards so why would they this more mids on the card with 5&6.

 

[Igloo]

I don't think the dogs will draft Stringer we never draft key forwards so why would they this more mids on the card with 5&6.

Stringer will be a midfielder in the AFL.

 

[King_snow]

Stringer will be a midfielder in the AFL.

I don't think we need him in the midfield though, we have enough talent there , its a star forward we need

 

[Igloo]

I don't think we need him in the midfield though, we have enough talent there , its a star forward we need

This draft isn't very good for KPP's. Where our first picks are, there aren't any worth taking.
When I say he'll be a midfielder, I don't just mean purely midfield though. He's a genuine utility. First couple of years he should play mostly forward.
I prefer him in the midfield though.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

We will get Stringer, bookmark this post. Dogs have liked him for a long time.

 

[maddog37]

Bmac wants a player that can do everything. Mid, forward etc. is that Stringer?