Mega Thread Delist/Trade/Draft Supermegaultrathread - It's Never Too Soon edition

[tesseract]

We desperately need a good forward pocket. I can't believe West Coast aren't in the mix even at this early stage.

Is it wise for WC to use a top 10 pick on an 'icing on top' type player as a forward pocket? Not IMO. WC have bigger concerns that need to be addressed first. WC need speed through the midfield; so if WC were to select Pickett, it should be more for seeing his future lie as a wingman. Laverde is taller as has more of a rounded game as an outside player/potential wingman if WC want such a type. He has the size to perhaps give WC the idea of developing his inside game, too. He does bring height and speed at present. Add some bulk and strength, as well as developing his inside game, could lead to WC having a very handy player.

On a different note, the more I think about Brayshaw after having read about him, the more I think he's another Dom Sheed. I say this because he's played U18's as an IM and is touted as such, but seems to have an inclination to be more a receiver than a ball winner. Like Sheed, he doesn't have speed, and is more of an accumulator than an impact player. He's also so vanilla that nearly all light bounces off of him. And it's due these things that I believe his talent will max out in the form of him ending up a B+ player. What Brayshaw has got going for him is the size to change his game into more of a hard-nosed grunt. That could make him a more useful and rounded midfielder.

 

[Peter Wallis]

Is it wise for WC to use a top 10 pick on an 'icing on top' type player as a forward pocket? Not IMO. WC have bigger concerns that need to be addressed first. WC need speed through the midfield; so if WC were to select Pickett, it should be more for seeing his future lie as a wingman. Laverde is taller as has more of a rounded game as an outside player/potential wingman if WC want such a type. He has the size to perhaps give WC the idea of developing his inside game, too. He does bring height and speed at present. Add some bulk and strength, as well as developing his inside game, could lead to WC having a very handy player.

On a different note, the more I think about Brayshaw after having read about him, the more I think he's another Dom Sheed. I say this because he's played U18's as an IM and is outed as such, but seems to have an inclination to be more a receiver than a ball winner. Like Sheed, he doesn't have speed, and is more of an accumulator than impact player. He's also so vanilla that nearly all light bounces off of him. And it's due these things that I believe his talent will max out in the form of him ending up a B+ player. What Brayshaw has got going for him is the size to change his game into more of a hard-nosed grunt. That could make him a more useful and rounded midfielder.

I am sure Laverde would be at the top of the list given Simpson's most recent comments about what the midfield currently lacks.

Don't be surprised if De Goey gets taken should Laverde be picked earlier though. In regards to Brayshaw, I believe Melbourne are really into him & if they manage to get an additional early pick for Frawley then he will almost certainly be gone before West Coast's pick.

 

[ArdentEagle]

Hurn has proven time and time again that he is not a major ball winner.

It'd be fantastic if he could get 23 touches a game, but he simply doesn't get enough of it.

He's certainly not the answer to our problems but would help alleviate the size issue if we could rotate him a little more through the middle.
If we were able to trade/draft in another top quality mid, Hurn would become another piece of the puzzle, a role which would allow him more freedom than whats afforded to him now.

Worst case scenario is the opposition have more of an issue is locking down on him down back as Malceski and Abbott would give them something else to think about.
We'd be able to rotate some players with serious weapons through the midfield and forward of centre.

 

[Eagle87]

No need to get your knickers in a knot.

We're talking about the midfield, so lets leave Glass out for a moment. Lets park Cox as well, given we will have NicNat and (hopefully) Lycett in the ruck and we're talking about mids.

So we've got Kerr, who will be replaced by the A-grader I've been saying we need (remembering he only played 14 games in '11 when we finished 4th). Nicoski played as a small forward so I'm not going to include him in the mids. I'll give you Embley had a good year in '11 (and only played 6 games in '12 where we finished 5th), but I'll argue that his loss is offset by Yeo and Wellingham (as I said above assuming he pulls his finger out).

A.Selwood? The same A.Selwood that posters on here would bag the shit out of and cry to be dropped? In '11 and '12 A.Selwood was a C-grader, a low B at best.

So Kerr vs A-grader that I've stated we need, Embley vs Yeo and A.Selwood vs Wellingham.

How again is our midfield from '11 and '12 significantly better?

See you're shaping "facts" to fit your narrative, which tends to expose your argument.

2011 & 2012 happened because some kids emerged at the same time as we got the last flickers of greatness from some elite players.

Since then those elites have gone and not been replaced. So the "kids" are exposed and aren't as good.

Specifically on your "points".

Anyone who seeks to park Cox outside a discussion of our midfield is an idiot who presumably missed the last decade. Cox at his best, and 2011 and 2012 he was close, was almost our best link up, spread mid. The fact he is 202cm tall made him handy as an outlet option too. Probably the best ruckman in 20+ years ..

Embley is a 190cm run all day, largely outside mid. A super version of Rosa but way better. It was his early demise and Nicoskis absence in 2012 that began our decline. While we finished 5th, we were a fraction of the side we were in 2011 in terms of excitement and actual hope of winning anything.

Kerr was one if the best mids in the game. He single handedly won us games in important matches in 2011 & 2012. He was THE guy in big moments. You're ability to write that off by saying he only played 14 games betrays either extreme youth or an inability to grasp football.

Selwood in 2011 and to a lesser extent in 2012 was a rotation mid, who understood the game, was good lockdown. Lost his pace and it was over but his best is better than most of our current mids and he had some flexibility.

Glass while not a mid, made our back line better than it currently is, as did Waters.

Would we be improved now with Glass and Waters in 2011 form? Yes.

Nico played forward but he also played high at times. Which means his pace was useful up to the wings. The sort of role we've tried Hams, Hill & Cripps and now the vastly inferior McGinnity in.

It's important also to remember in 2011 & 2012 that we weren't actually a chance to win anything. We were middle of the 8 but not a real contender.

With Cox, Kerr, Embley, Glass etc ... we were a middling top 8 team...

That's 4 of the best 6 players across the last decade and a half ...

And you reckon that if we can just find a mid as good as Kerr and 2 or 3 of our promising kids step up to Cox, Embley standards we should be sweet ..

I agree that if we can find 3 or 4 elite players at the absolute top of their games and 3 of them influence the midfield like Cox, Kerr and Embley we should be better .. maybe even 4th or 5th ...

If that encourages you then you really have a fair bit to learn





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[kerrazy]

Big mids over small explosive forwards please

 

[The Dodger]

No need to get your knickers in a knot.

We're talking about the midfield, so lets leave Glass out for a moment. Lets park Cox as well, given we will have NicNat and (hopefully) Lycett in the ruck and we're talking about mids.

So we've got Kerr, who will be replaced by the A-grader I've been saying we need (remembering he only played 14 games in '11 when we finished 4th). Nicoski played as a small forward so I'm not going to include him in the mids. I'll give you Embley had a good year in '11 (and only played 6 games in '12 where we finished 5th), but I'll argue that his loss is offset by Yeo and Wellingham (as I said above assuming he pulls his finger out).

A.Selwood? The same A.Selwood that posters on here would bag the shit out of and cry to be dropped? In '11 and '12 A.Selwood was a C-grader, a low B at best.

So Kerr vs A-grader that I've stated we need, Embley vs Yeo and A.Selwood vs Wellingham.

How again is our midfield from '11 and '12 significantly better?

We caught teams by surprise in 11. They would not have heard of Shuey. Bothered with SSelwood, both who had break out years. Gaff caught teams by surprise. IMO SSelwood played his best football that year.
Kerr drew the attention, it was Priddis' best year. It was Embley of old. Between 11-12 was Masten coming of age as well.

Since then Priddis has gotten worse deficiency wise. Shuey is still trying hard while either coping with tags and very little support. Gaff is dealing with more attention these days. Kerr has gone, Embley has gone, we overrated SSelwoods ability and tried him as a head to head ball winner which only hurts us.

I think it's incorrect to look at this as a plug & play scenario WRT an elite mid. It will help but it won't cure.

 

[steve hucka]

Is it wise for WC to use a top 10 pick on an 'icing on top' type player as a forward pocket? Not IMO. WC have bigger concerns that need to be addressed first. WC need speed through the midfield; so if WC were to select Pickett, it should be more for seeing his future lie as a wingman. Laverde is taller as has more of a rounded game as an outside player/potential wingman if WC want such a type. He has the size to perhaps give WC the idea of developing his inside game, too. He does bring height and speed at present. Add some bulk and strength, as well as developing his inside game, could lead to WC having a very handy player.

On a different note, the more I think about Brayshaw after having read about him, the more I think he's another Dom Sheed. I say this because he's played U18's as an IM and is touted as such, but seems to have an inclination to be more a receiver than a ball winner. Like Sheed, he doesn't have speed, and is more of an accumulator than an impact player. He's also so vanilla that nearly all light bounces off of him. And it's due these things that I believe his talent will max out in the form of him ending up a B+ player. What Brayshaw has got going for him is the size to change his game into more of a hard-nosed grunt. That could make him a more useful and rounded midfielder.

I like Waterman as a inside mid better than brayshaw has more upside to his game !

 

[steve hucka]

I am sure Laverde would be at the top of the list given Simpson's most recent comments about what the midfield currently lacks.

Don't be surprised if De Goey gets taken should Laverde be picked earlier though. In regards to Brayshaw, I believe Melbourne are really into him & if they manage to get an additional early pick for Frawley then he will almost certainly be gone before West Coast's pick.

I suspect Laverde to be a draft bolter the same as bontempelli ! He's the modern style Midfielder I hope he's still around for our first pick !

 

[Smotie]

I suspect Laverde to be a draft bolter the same as bontempelli ! He's the modern style Midfielder I hope he's still around for our first pick !

Go the tank?

 

[Joven]

What are your thoughts on WC trading Kennedy, Brown and perhaps Masten for the Saints top pick (no1 or 2 I presume) and Armitage?

I'm not trying to push either out the door (especially due to Glasses retirement) but it would allow us to get Petracca and another big body in Armitage into the middle as well as retaining our current first pick.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

What are your thoughts on WC trading Kennedy, Brown and perhaps Masten for the Saints top pick (no1 or 2 I presume) and Armitage?

I'm not trying to push either out the door (especially due to Glasses retirement) but it would allow us to get Petracca and another big body in Armitage into the middle as well as retaining our current first pick.

And it begins.

 

[Joven]

And it begins.

and what is it?

 

[Monkey Worshipper]

and what is it?

Rubbish posting that doesn't illicit a quality response

 

[Smotie]

What are your thoughts on WC trading Kennedy, Brown and perhaps Masten for the Saints top pick (no1 or 2 I presume) and Armitage?

I'm not trying to push either out the door (especially due to Glasses retirement) but it would allow us to get Petracca and another big body in Armitage into the middle as well as retaining our current first pick.

I would trade Kennedy and Masten for Saints number 1 pick and Armitage. I wouldn't throw in Brown as well though.

Given that we have Sinclair, Darling, McGovern to cover us forward and Lecras as well.
We then have the option of getting who we want in the draft.

 

[Bluey_McKenna]

and what is it?

Ridiculous trade suggestions...

 

[ArdentEagle]

What are your thoughts on WC trading Kennedy, Brown and perhaps Masten for the Saints top pick (no1 or 2 I presume) and Armitage?

I'm not trying to push either out the door (especially due to Glasses retirement) but it would allow us to get Petracca and another big body in Armitage into the middle as well as retaining our current first pick.

The good folks on this site seem to be 50/50 on trading Kennedy (not withstanding the fact he'd actually want to go).
To loose Brow and Masten may be too many from the starting 22. Funnily enough, I see Brown as a bigger loss.

If we were offered Kennedy and Masten for pick 2 and Armitage, I'd take it.
I doubt even if the saints wanted too we could convince the players to go.

Just to add, I think Masten is talented but I liken him to Chad Fletcher, he needs to be 4-5th mid to be effective.

 

[Smotie]

Ridiculous trade suggestions...

Why is it ridiculous? The Brown addition is ridiculous but we have to do something drastic to turn this shizenhouzen football club around. How many good years has Kennedy got left in him? 3? He may not even be around for our next flag tilt.

 

[dewah07]

Lol I wouldn't be think saints would be rushing to do any eagles trades after the whole brown situation a couple of years ago. Funnily enough we have filled that role perfectly with Delaney.

On the current suggestion I assume most saints supporters would be thinking

Armo > mastern
Brown has no purpose in our team now
Kennedy doesn't fit our age bracket we want

You can't be offering 3 non A graders for he top pick.

 

[Spartan]

snip

I never 'wrote off' Kerr. He was important, very important. My comments regarding Kerr was that he would need to be replaced by an equivalent A-grade midfielder. For the record we went 7-1 in the games that Kerr missed in 2011.

My comment regarding parking Cox was more to do with talking about the mids we had/have and not about the 'midfield' as such. Of course ruckman figure greatly when talking about a team's midfield and as you've pointed out Cox really was another midfielder, a good one at that. Hopefully Lycett can develop into a similar type of ruck.

Glass will no doubt be a big loss to the club but I think our backline will be ok.

This whole discussion started around our midfielders specifically and responding to a comment that we needed to add 5 good mids before we could be competitive again and that our midfield has no potential. My thoughts are players such as Shuey, Yeo and Gaff do have potential to be top tier mids but perhaps not 'elite'. If we can add an elite mid, preferably a big bodied.. line breaking.. fast.. contested ball winning.. goal kicking mid with elite disposal(shouldn't be too hard to find/get), guys like Shuey, Yeo and Gaff take the next step and players like Sheed, Sheppard and (soon) Waterman come along then our midfield could be good enough to compete at the top end.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

and what is it?

Silly season trade suggestions; a guilty pleasure that is fun to partake in, but would never realistically happen.

 

[Monkey Worshipper]

If we can add an elite mid, preferably a big bodied.. line breaking.. fast.. contested ball winning.. goal kicking mid with elite disposal (shouldn't be too hard to find/get)....

We've made no inroads into this for 7 years.

And suddenly this year we are going to get it right? And they'll all be good to go in Round 1 and become AA by the end of 2015?

I have no confidence in the recruiters whatsoever. I have no confidence in our club of the development of such said player even if we jagged one by mistake.

 

[ArdentEagle]

If we can add an elite mid, preferably a big bodied.. line breaking.. fast.. contested ball winning.. goal kicking mid with elite disposal(shouldn't be too hard to find/get.

Dangerfield came straight to mind.
We have a change if we're aggressive enough.

 

[Eagle87]

I never 'wrote off' Kerr. He was important, very important. My comments regarding Kerr was that he would need to be replaced by an equivalent A-grade midfielder. For the record we went 7-1 in the games that Kerr missed in 2011.

My comment regarding parking Cox was more to do with talking about the mids we had/have and not about the 'midfield' as such. Of course ruckman figure greatly when talking about a team's midfield and as you've pointed out Cox really was another midfielder, a good one at that. Hopefully Lycett can develop into a similar type of ruck.

Glass will no doubt be a big loss to the club but I think our backline will be ok.

This whole discussion started around our midfielders specifically and responding to a comment that we needed to add 5 good mids before we could be competitive again and that our midfield has no potential. My thoughts are players such as Shuey, Yeo and Gaff do have potential to be top tier mids but perhaps not 'elite'. If we can add an elite mid, preferably a big bodied.. line breaking.. fast.. contested ball winning.. goal kicking mid with elite disposal(shouldn't be too hard to find/get), guys like Shuey, Yeo and Gaff take the next step and players like Sheed, Sheppard and (soon) Waterman come along then our midfield could be good enough to compete at the top end.

I just felt you were falling into the "we only have to do these couple of things" "we aren't far away" group.

I think those "few things" require a lot of things to go right. I hope they do. I think were a long way away ..



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[Peter Wallis]

Lol I wouldn't be think saints would be rushing to do any eagles trades after the whole brown situation a couple of years ago. Funnily enough we have filled that role perfectly with Delaney.

On the current suggestion I assume most saints supporters would be thinking

Armo > mastern
Brown has no purpose in our team now
Kennedy doesn't fit our age bracket we want

You can't be offering 3 non A graders for he top pick.

I agree, St Kilda are trying to build from the bottom up & giving up pick 1 or 2 plus Armitage who is one of your top players for Masten who is average, Brown who is inconsistent & Kennedy who is getting on, makes no sense.

If Kennedy was to be traded I am sure he would want to move to a top side to finish his career.

 

[Joven]

Rubbish posting that doesn't illicit a quality response

Sorry hero, just a question. What a douche response. Who do you think you are? I thought this was a place to discuss trades etc. Hence the question, you don't have to like it you smoker but show some respect