Delistings - the unlucky 4

[bigman]

Only 4 Crows players are uncontracted as at today.

Gallman, Gill, Kite and Shirley.

You'd have to think there's a message in that.

If we delist all 4, which I think we will, that gives us picks 13, 29 and 46.

Lee had a very ordinary year but he's still only 18, so he probably will survive, unless the club can't see anything in him for the future.

I also think that the club would trade Griffin for an early 2nd rounder if offered to allow it to have a greater crack at the better talent.

A crumber, a lightning quick mid and a young project ruckman are the main needs.

Macca I think you are right on the money, with your suggestions.

I would have liked one of Burton and Hentschell to be delisted as I do not think we can afford to have two relatively slow players now playing in our forward line.

The club has gone down the culture road however and there are good reasons for them doing that. They wanted to show that hard work and commitment to the cause are always rewarded and two players who embrace the culture of the club are rewarded with at least one more year.

It does mean though we could be looking at 4-5 retirements next year and I am worried about that in a draft where most of the early picks are taken by GC and the GWS will take the best 17 year olds.

This year's draft is not as bad as some say even though early in the year it looked very thin. A number of players have stepped up in the latter half of the year.

What is thin is the talent of talls and KPP.

Credit again to Rendell and his crew - they picked well last year when they went for KPP.

This year is a midfield player draft.

I am sure we will work hard to pick up a couple of quality mids (although Martin may now be one of those), a crumber type player which we do not currently have and a young project ruckman as you suggest. There are a couple who may get through.


I actually think the draft has got up to 45-50 players with talent. Therefore 3 picks unless we can offload Griffen for an early second round pick to give us 4.

 

[Big Gazoongas]

So what you are saying is that we have already upgraded Martin, getting rid of three players will leave us with 2 draft picks, never going to happen.

2005 was about the only year that we passed on a draft pick in the fourth round. Before you get excited the only reason we passed in the fourth round was because of the pick that we gained for Watts which gave us 2 first round selections so we had already drafted four players prior to the fourth round pick.

History shows that all clubs always participate in the first four rounds of the draft and I would expect us to do this as well (even the 2003 draft which is supposed to be the worst draft class in history we participated in the first four rounds). Due to there being no retirements this will mean the required delisting of five players.

I would be shocked if we only drafted 3 players or less in the draft. History shows that clubs do not do this and I dont expect us to either.

History is just that...hiistory, you don't make decisions on future draft picks based on what you have done historically.
The number of selections the club will make will be based on what they need and what talent is in the draft. If the club assesses the talent in the draft to be no better than what they already have why would you delist?

Based on what Rendell has been saying 5 picks will not happen in this draft

 

[WaynesWorld19]

This year is a midfield player draft.

I am sure we will work hard to pick up a couple of quality mids (although Martin may now be one of those), a crumber type player which we do not currently have and a young project ruckman as you suggest. There are a couple who may get through.


I actually think the draft has got up to 45-50 players with talent. Therefore 3 picks unless we can offload Griffen for an early second round pick to give us 4.

Bigman your normally pretty astute ........but this draft is no-where as deep as you say

In fact in normal years where you dream of getting one of the top picks if you can trade ....... this year if you look at the U18 footage and youtube clips you simply say MEH!!!

Yes there will be gems ......always is and good LUCK to clubs who can unearth them .......but the Reiwoldt, Dangerfields, Rich's, Otten's are not there from what I can see

Don't know why you would want more draft picks in this draft???

 

[aneale]

People overrate Kite massively. Obviously I like him but he's far from safe and delisting him wouldn't be the worst move.

Gallman, Gill and Shirley. 1 more and Kite.

I can see us cutting all 4, giving us the 3 picks at 13, 29 & 46, then using Griff to get us a pick between 22 & 30 and then having 4 picks. There could then be the chance that they could always use #46 to redraft Kite if they think he is as good as what is left at that time. Which I wouldn't mind seeing, from the games I've seen him play he goes alright. He suffers a little like Cooky in that they don't play in great teams.

You never know what the recruiters can pull from the hat at that pick tho'. We have all heard that its a shallow draft for stand outs, but I've also heard that the rest after those first 30 odd are very even and that there is nothing that discernible from say a pick 35 and a pick 60.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

History is just that...hiistory, you don't make decisions on future draft picks based on what you have done historically.
The number of selections the club will make will be based on what they need and what talent is in the draft. If the club assesses the talent in the draft to be no better than what they already have why would you delist?

Based on what Rendell has been saying 5 picks will not happen in this draft

Correct ....and history does not reflect the impact the GC17 taking of 17 year olds this year and the massive concessions next year

 

[aneale]

Don't know why you would want more draft picks in this draft???

you might, you'd just want them early. Melbourne should make out well.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

you might, you'd just want them early. Melbourne should make out well.

Yes if your rebuilding or outside the 8 .........but in our position now are the draftee's better than those we're delisting

That's highly debateable

 

[aneale]

Yes if your rebuilding or outside the 8 .........but in our position now are the draftee's better than those we're delisting

That's highly debateable

no, which IMO is why we held onto Edwards, Goody, Macca, Burton and Hentsch and possibly Dogga.

If this were a super draft I think as many as 3 of these would have gone. As it stands they are better than what is available.

 

[Huntercrow]

Shirley may go but he is still one off the best stoppers in the league.
I think until we have a champion midfielder to counteract ablett etc, we may have to stick with him. However if Vince continues to improve at this rate we will have a champion mid next season which the crows might be counting on.

 

[relapse]

Shirley may go but he is still one off the best stoppers in the league.
I think until we have a champion midfielder to counteract ablett etc, we may have to stick with him. However if Vince continues to improve at this rate we will have a champion mid next season which the crows might be counting on.

That because there arent many of them anymore, zones are replacing the need to put hard tags on players.

Shirley is a hard tagger, but has very little offensive side to his game and is a bit of a dinosaur in today's game. This is why when Viney was trying to establish the Hawthorn style zone earlier in the season we didnt need him.

Players zoning has pretty much rendered taggers an endangered species. Kane Cornes at least has an offensive game which is what Shirley lacks, but the days of clubs applying hard tags on opposition players is over.

 

[relapse]

Yes if your rebuilding or outside the 8 .........but in our position now are the draftee's better than those we're delisting

That's highly debateable

You still need a healthy annual turnover of your list though

 

[macca23]

Yes if your rebuilding or outside the 8 .........but in our position now are the draftee's better than those we're delisting

That's highly debateable

That's not the point though really.

Adelaide have shown that previously by delisting players who were still playing good footy.

To have a balanced list it must be refreshed to some degree every year.

I remember people saying before the 2007 draft that it didn't have much depth. We took 7 players in that draft, all of whom are currently on our list, and also of whom only Kite is any danger of being delisted.

Further to that we took Petrenko at 25 and Martin at 52 in the rookie draft that year, both of whom are now on the main list.

Not bad for a draft that had no depth.

I wouldn't be going overboard, but I really believe that we must have 3 picks at a minimum in this year's draft. They're going to be very thin in the year's to come with the GC and West Sydney's concessions.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Players zoning has pretty much rendered taggers an endangered species. Kane Cornes at least has an offensive game which is what Shirley lacks, but the days of clubs applying hard tags on opposition players is over.

I Said that a year ago .......but its more that the constant increasing of midfield rotations means it's too easy to shake the tag ......what are we up to 90+ rotations a game ...20-25 per qtr

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You still need a healthy annual turnover of your list though

Well you have to under AFL rules ......but the fact remains you don't turnover for the sake of it

Replace only when there's someone better on offer ......NOT just to keep supporters happy with new faces coming into the club

 

[WaynesWorld19]

That's not the point though really.

Adelaide have shown that previously by delisting players who were still playing good footy.

To have a balanced list it must be refreshed to some degree every year.

I remember people saying before the 2007 draft that it didn't have much depth. We took 7 players in that draft, all of whom are currently on our list, and also of whom only Kite is any danger of being delisted.

Further to that we took Petrenko at 25 and Martin at 52 in the rookie draft that year, both of whom are now on the main list.

Not bad for a draft that had no depth.

I wouldn't be going overboard, but I really believe that we must have 3 picks at a minimum in this year's draft. They're going to be very thin in the year's to come with the GC and West Sydney's concessions.

but 3 is the minimum we have to make????

The list balance your talking about is about age .......we did keep good players on the list who were performing ....Massie, Torney, Welsh, and Hudson

But we were getting log-jammed with players around 30 and potentially would have to rebuild during the GC17 / West Sydney period ......not a good sign

So we cut aging players early and replenished .......but now the list age wise is again well balanced and changes to the list will be, apart from retiree's over the next couple of years, based on performance and maintaining AFL regs.

The number of draft choices IMO won't be influenced by draft strengths ....... the Crows have been fairly consistent with numbers of draft picks every season ......what we do do is know when drafts are strong on talls and midfielders and seem to have our drafting cycles correct to benefit from the strengths of the draft.

So in summary .....minimum draft picks this draft concentrating on midfielders ....and a good draft to load up speculatively on rookies

 

[macca23]

but 3 is the minimum we have to make????

Which can include the upgraded rookie in Martin as one of them.

My comment was that we must take at least 3 in the draft itself. If we only delist 3 players we will only be entitled to 2 picks in the draft.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Which can include the upgraded rookie in Martin as one of them.

My comment was that we must take at least 3 in the draft itself. If we only delist 3 players we will only be entitled to 2 picks in the draft.

I think Shirley is going to be the scapegoat for the decison to let all 4 veterans go on .......that and the potential the club see's in Sloane.

So let's say Kite is the 4th delistee to give us 3 National draft selections

Is Kite better than who we are likely to pick-up at #46??

Or is a bird in the hand ......

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

I think Shirley is going to be the scapegoat for the decison to let all 4 veterans go on .......that and the potential the club see's in Sloane.

So let's say Kite is the 4th delistee to give us 3 National draft selections

Is Kite better than who we are likely to pick-up at #46??

Or is a bird in the hand ......

Shirley is certainly the victim of all 4 veterans going on, this certainly opens up a role for Sloane next year

I heard Ben Hart say in an interview at seasons end that the club believe Sloane can play a similar game to that of Ling, once I heard this I knew Shirley was gone

I expect a huge pre-season from Sloane as he will be targeting a round 1 spot

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Shirley is certainly the victim of all 4 veterans going on, this certainly opens up a role for Sloane next year

I heard Ben Hart say in an interview at seasons end that the club believe Sloane can play a similar game to that of Ling, once I heard this I knew Shirley was gone

I expect a huge pre-season from Sloane as he will be targeting a round 1 spot

Stating the obvious I know .....but he has a great future

Can also play as understudy to Stiffy as a small defender

 

[macca23]

I think Shirley is going to be the scapegoat for the decison to let all 4 veterans go on .......that and the potential the club see's in Sloane.

So let's say Kite is the 4th delistee to give us 3 National draft selections

Is Kite better than who we are likely to pick-up at #46??

Or is a bird in the hand ......

The club will have a rating on Kite as to where, if anywhere, it feels he might go to.

The club will also have a potential rating on those players they're interested in, in the national draft.

Neither you or I could answer the questions thastyou've raised. We'll just have to leave that to the club.

Just on the draft itself, They crossed to Sheehan (Kevin that is for the benefit of Carl Spackler who thinks all Sheehan's are called Mike - come on ) - who stated that he rated it as a good draft with good depth.

Apparently they've tested better than any other group and the quality of the lads is better than normal. He believes some very good footballers will come out of this draft.

I'd still like to have a minimum of 3 picks in this draft and leave it to the genius Rendell to periwinkle out the prizes.

 

[bigman]

The club will have a rating on Kite as to where, if anywhere, it feels he might go to.

The club will also have a potential rating on those players they're interested in, in the national draft.

Neither you or I could answer the questions thastyou've raised. We'll just have to leave that to the club.

Just on the draft itself, They crossed to Sheehan (Kevin that is for the benefit of Carl Spackler who thinks all Sheehan's are called Mike - come on ) - who stated that he rated it as a good draft with good depth.

Apparently they've tested better than any other group and the quality of the lads is better than normal. He believes some very good footballers will come out of this draft.

I'd still like to have a minimum of 3 picks in this draft and leave it to the genius Rendell to periwinkle out the prizes.

WW i STILL stay with my assertion that there are 45-50 players out there but then it falls away badly.

I hope we go for 4 picks AND if we offload Griffen we have 5.

I think young and fresh blood into the system will be positive and will enable us to continue to manage the list well the future.

Once past pick 50 it really becomes a bit of a lottery.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

The club will have a rating on Kite as to where, if anywhere, it feels he might go to.

The club will also have a potential rating on those players they're interested in, in the national draft.

Neither you or I could answer the questions thastyou've raised. We'll just have to leave that to the club.

Just on the draft itself, They crossed to Sheehan (Kevin that is for the benefit of Carl Spackler who thinks all Sheehan's are called Mike - come on ) - who stated that he rated it as a good draft with good depth.

Apparently they've tested better than any other group and the quality of the lads is better than normal. He believes some very good footballers will come out of this draft.

I'd still like to have a minimum of 3 picks in this draft and leave it to the genius Rendell to periwinkle out the prizes.

Macca

Just adding to your note, this years draftees tested on average higher than any other group for endurance, the average beep test was in the high 14's

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

WW i STILL stay with my assertion that there are 45-50 players out there but then it falls away badly.

I hope we go for 4 picks AND if we offload Griffen we have 5.

I think young and fresh blood into the system will be positive and will enable us to continue to manage the list well the future.

Once past pick 50 it really becomes a bit of a lottery.

I would say any pick past 50 in any draft is a lottery however every year clubs continue to find some absolute gems in the late rounds, this year will be no different

 

[relapse]

That's not the point though really.

Adelaide have shown that previously by delisting players who were still playing good footy.

To have a balanced list it must be refreshed to some degree every year.

I remember people saying before the 2007 draft that it didn't have much depth. We took 7 players in that draft, all of whom are currently on our list, and also of whom only Kite is any danger of being delisted.

Further to that we took Petrenko at 25 and Martin at 52 in the rookie draft that year, both of whom are now on the main list.

Not bad for a draft that had no depth.

I wouldn't be going overboard, but I really believe that we must have 3 picks at a minimum in this year's draft. They're going to be very thin in the year's to come with the GC and West Sydney's concessions.

I agree with you, as I said in a earlier post I am yet to find a club that hasnt taken 4 picks either 3 in the draft and 1 in the PSD or 4 at the draft.

We have upgraded Martin and as a consequence for keeping many of our top end players we will have to move more of the lower tier players on. I do think that we could delist four and trade Griff for a second rounder which would give us 4 picks in the first three rounds.

Hawthorn won the flag in 08 and had five picks, Geelong had four after winning 07. If we only had two picks in the draft I think it would be terrible list management we need to keep turning our list over like every other club does.

 

[relapse]

WW i STILL stay with my assertion that there are 45-50 players out there but then it falls away badly.

I hope we go for 4 picks AND if we offload Griffen we have 5.

I think young and fresh blood into the system will be positive and will enable us to continue to manage the list well the future.

Once past pick 50 it really becomes a bit of a lottery.

agree 100 percent, not continuing to turn our list over would be a mistake.