Early Fevola trade analysis

[Dramoth]

Leaving Hendo out of the trade for the moment, right now I would prefer Fev and his issues for Lucas and the resultant forward line restructure hands down. Hendo is now just a bonus if he comes good.

The forward line restructure is a clean win thanks to Fev kicking up at the brownlow...

We would have had to do it in a couple of years anyway. So doing it now before our window opens is a bonus because the guys in the forward line get to work together for a couple of years and develop the type of close knit rapport that we are seeing glimpses of already with "Setanta's three little helpers".

Last night when Waite and Setanta were running to the drop of the ball to mark it, they might have crashed into each other and spoilt it... but they didnt. If we still had Fev, then I reckon that he would have been running straight to where Waite ended up marking the ball and smashing him into next week.

You dont put 20 goals on one of the tightest defences around with a crap forward line. And the best thing about our forward structure... it will get better

 

[thylacine60]

Leaving Hendo out of the trade for the moment, right now I would prefer Fev and his issues for Lucas and the resultant forward line restructure hands down. Hendo is now just a bonus if he comes good.

You particularly feverish today, BigFella?

 

[Bluebear]

Had a thought recently with the form of Josh Kennedy at West Coast recently. Would Carlton have been better off in hindsight possibly trading Fev for Judd- straight swap and keeping Kennedy and Pick 3? We may have struggled more in 2008/2009 but the way the players up forward now (Setantas little helpers especially, Setanta himself and Waite) are playing we would probably be even further advanced with Kennedy and Masten in the side...

Thoughts???

Firstly, whose to say the Weagles would have just done Fev for Judd?

Assuming they would have, Masten would be playing for the Bullants, and will have taken the mantle as the teams whipping boy. Disposal is poor.

Kennedy, yep that would be great, but remember back to when he wore Navy Blue.......Henderson at the same age >>> Kennedy.

Anyway, we are kicking winning scores every week, its our defensive pressure in the midifield that fluctuates and allows our opponents to outscore us.

I'm happy with how its working out and in a couple of years time when Lachie is starting to exert his influence we can revisit this thread.

 

[NavyGuns_2008]

All good questions and points... Wasn't saying I necessarily think we would be better off just a thought I had seen as Fev ended up going anyway. I do believe the Eagles would of taken the deal, Judd chose Carlton, he was going anyway and Fev hadn't made quite as many off field mistakes at that time. 100% agree with all the Masten talk but who is to say we wouldnt of taken someone else with that pick as we have different recruiters. Nor did I say Kennedy was better than Hendo, just an interesting thought I had about our team if this HAD of occurred, of course it didn't and hypotheticals can be pointless but just a thought....

 

[blueboy25]

I agree Josh Kennedy was good on the weekend and I was at the game but I still don't think he has been overly impressive this year.

He kicked 3 goals against the dockers, two of these were in the last 5 mins when the game was over from over the top handballs.

The eagles kick to him everytime they go inside 50 (which isn't very oftern) so he is going to get his 2 a game. A bit like we were with fev over the last decade.

I am very happy with kane lucas and hendo who will be back in the seniors at some stage this year and will show why he will be a good player for us for a long time.

 

[Malifice]

Assuming they would have, Masten would be playing for the Bullants, and will have taken the mantle as the teams whipping boy. Disposal is poor.

Rumour was we were looking at Palmer at #3.

Doesnt help the disposal argument though.

 

[zeeCFC]

2009 *m-scorer = multiple scorer

R1 Score: 150, Goal Kickers: Betts 5, Robinson 3... 7 m-scorers & 11 All up
R2 Score: 119, Goal Kickers: Fevola 5, Betts 3...... 5 m-scorers & 8 All up
R3 Score: 112, Goal Kickers: Fevola 4, Betts 2...... 5 m-scorers & 8 All up
R4 Score: 67 , Goal Kickers: Betts 3, Cloke/Fev 1. 3 m-scorers & 7 All up
R5 Score: 133, Goal Kickers: Fevola 3, Betts 3...... 7 m-scorers & 12 All up
R6 Score: 102, Goal Kickers: Fevola 8, Betts 2...... 2 m-scorers & 7 All up
R7 Score: 81 , Goal Kickers: Waite 3, Cloke 1....... 1 m-scorer & 9 All up

Total Points Scored: 764

2010

R1 Score: 120, Goal Kickers: Yarran 3, Betts 3...... 6 m-scorers &9 All up
R2 Score: 88, Goal Kickers: O'hAilpin 4, Hendo 3.. 2 m-scorers &7 All up
R3 Score: 75, Goal Kickers: Betts & O'hAilpin 2.... 3 m-scorers &7 All up
R4 Score: 103 Goal Kickers: Garlett & Hoops 3......4 m-scorers & 9 All up
R5 Score: 104, Goal Kickers: Garlett 3, Betts 2..... 5 m-scorers & 9 All up
R6 Score: 102, Goal Kickers: O'hAilpin 5, Betts 3... 2 m-scorers & 7 All up
R7 Score: 129, Goal Kickers: Betts 5, Garlett 4..... 4 m- scorers & 9 All up

Total Points Scored: 721

Thanks to Blueseum

Summary: Taken a tiny step backwards with Fevola SCOREBOARD WISE. However we are ahead of where we were last year and have a much more favorable draw after this. The above also shows how well we are defending all over the ground

 

[dumb]

fevola may not be performing as well up there but brisbane don't need him to as we did. fevola gives them bradshaw-like returns on the scoreboard, a bit more membership/attendance clout (incidentally we've probably gathered some of our own in the last few weeks). we had to get the best out of him to win games, whereas his amazing best will be more of a luxury we at carlton never had during his time (after whitnall of course).

i don't think it's fevola's fault that we played the forward line as we did while he was there. ratten had ample opportunity to play others there (barring setanta/fisher injury, and so on), as well as simply doing what could win us games, letting fev kick all the goals. as petulant as fev was the MC/ratts have the last say on stuff and they kept picking him, and to play as he did (sooky stuff aside).

'he won't change' is stubborn sour grapes stuff and i've come to accept that he may actually change off-field for the better. i'm just glad it's worked out as well as it has ladderwise and all that.

 

[Koutafidamedis]

Think we still would of had to give pick 3 with fev but we might of been able to keep pick 20. I couldn't see any way the weagles would've of a done a straight swap.

 

[mediumsizered]

2009 *m-scorer = multiple scorer

R1 Score: 150, Goal Kickers: Betts 5, Robinson 3... 7 m-scorers & 11 All up
R2 Score: 119, Goal Kickers: Fevola 5, Betts 3...... 5 m-scorers & 8 All up
R3 Score: 112, Goal Kickers: Fevola 4, Betts 2...... 5 m-scorers & 8 All up
R4 Score: 67 , Goal Kickers: Betts 3, Cloke/Fev 1. 3 m-scorers & 7 All up
R5 Score: 133, Goal Kickers: Fevola 3, Betts 3...... 7 m-scorers & 12 All up
R6 Score: 102, Goal Kickers: Fevola 8, Betts 2...... 2 m-scorers & 7 All up
R7 Score: 81 , Goal Kickers: Waite 3, Cloke 1....... 1 m-scorer & 9 All up

Total Points Scored: 764

2010

R1 Score: 120, Goal Kickers: Yarran 3, Betts 3...... 6 m-scorers &9 All up
R2 Score: 88, Goal Kickers: O'hAilpin 4, Hendo 3.. 2 m-scorers &7 All up
R3 Score: 75, Goal Kickers: Betts & O'hAilpin 2.... 3 m-scorers &7 All up
R4 Score: 103 Goal Kickers: Garlett & Hoops 3......4 m-scorers & 9 All up
R5 Score: 104, Goal Kickers: Garlett 3, Betts 2..... 5 m-scorers & 9 All up
R6 Score: 102, Goal Kickers: O'hAilpin 5, Betts 3... 2 m-scorers & 7 All up
R7 Score: 129, Goal Kickers: Betts 5, Garlett 4..... 4 m- scorers & 9 All up

Total Points Scored: 721

Thanks to Blueseum

Summary: Taken a tiny step backwards with Fevola SCOREBOARD WISE. However we are ahead of where we were last year and have a much more favorable draw after this. The above also shows how well we are defending all over the ground

Interesting to note we are sitting 4th in the competition for total goals kicked, with only Geelong, Collingwood & Fremantle ahead of us. We have kicked 11 more goals than Brisbane, despite Fev & Brown having kicked 49 goals between them.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

I was surprised they went for Fev when they had Bradshaw never made sense to me.

getting fev and losing Bradshaw is an almost even trade. Bradshaw would be so much highly regarded if he played in melbourne. Add in the bad Fev traits and its almost even. Blues won just due to it making our forward line unpredictable.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You particularly feverish today, BigFella?

Did I write that the wrong way? I meant I am happy with the way it turned out even if Hendo doesn't make it.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Zee - how contradictory are the stats to the outcomes.

Like, basically less scorers / multiple scorers across all comparable games.
Basically less scorers in general, or lower scores.

But we've still beaten the two best sides from last year (both sitting 5-2 now) and look all the better for it at this stage.

I'd like to see the defensive figures - As much as the loss of Fevola may have hurt our offense, it has strengthened our defensive structure by perhaps as much.

There is no longer a beacon for opposition defenders to run two to spoil, gather and clear the ball effectively. Midfielders don't know which wing or flank to set up on because there is no clear target that we will more often than not choose.

In these circumstances, the end result is far slower ball movement out of our 50, and by consequence, even slower ball movement into the opposition 50 - It all bodes well for the back 6, and with all due respect to Jamo, on Monday night it made him look like a 6 x AA FB the way that passes appeared telegraphed into the Saints' 50. Jamo, really, had easy pickings.

Arguably, you could suggest that this creates that 'beacon' effect in the opposition's forwardline. IE The movement, in being so slow, hems the opposition into one flank, and thus allows the crumbers to decipher which side of the park the ball will land with much greater ease. We saw it with Walks v. Adelaide, where any choice to spot up Tippett was more likely an R50 stat for Walker, than a goal for the Crows.

 

[zeeCFC]

Zee - how contradictory are the stats to the outcomes.

Like, basically less scorers / multiple scorers across all comparable games.
Basically less scorers in general, or lower scores.

But we've still beaten the two best sides from last year (both sitting 5-2 now) and look all the better for it at this stage.

I'd like to see the defensive figures - As much as the loss of Fevola may have hurt our offense, it has strengthened our defensive structure by perhaps as much. Their is no longer a beacon for opposition defenders to run two to spoil, gather and clear the ball effectively. Midfielders don't know which wing or flank to set up on because there is no clear target that we will more often than not choose.

In these circumstances, the end result is far slower ball movement out of our 50, and by consequence, even slower ball movement into the opposition 50 - It all bodes well for the back 6, and with all due respect to Jamo, on Monday night it made him look like a 6 x AA FB the way that passes appeared telegraphed into the Saints' 50. Jamo, really, had easy pickings.

spot on mate, mentioned that briefly in my last line...I think the improvement in O'hAilpin, Hoops and letting the 3 smalls run riot has helped us both ways. coupled with a better developed Mid and backline we've accounted for Fev's loss rather easily

 

[thylacine60]

Did I write that the wrong way? I meant I am happy with the way it turned out even if Hendo doesn't make it.

All good, mate. I subvert, negate or re-jig your posts most times anyway.

 

[Shambolic]

I prefer a slightly different spin:

OUT: 29 year old key forward, still top 5 players in the Club, and later pick

IN: Top 10 draft pick (Henderson) and extra top pick

If you forget the off field stuff it still makes sense.

Add in the talk that we rated Lucas earlier and the actual that he's a f'n ripper, and I think the trade works for us.

If Brisbane snags a premiership, which I think is unlikely, then they could claim a win, but that doesnt mean we'd have to agree.

CARLTON WINS.

 

[Shambolic]

Zee - how contradictory are the stats to the outcomes.

Like, basically less scorers / multiple scorers across all comparable games.
Basically less scorers in general, or lower scores.

But we've still beaten the two best sides from last year (both sitting 5-2 now) and look all the better for it at this stage.

I'd like to see the defensive figures - As much as the loss of Fevola may have hurt our offense, it has strengthened our defensive structure by perhaps as much.

There is no longer a beacon for opposition defenders to run two to spoil, gather and clear the ball effectively. Midfielders don't know which wing or flank to set up on because there is no clear target that we will more often than not choose.

In these circumstances, the end result is far slower ball movement out of our 50, and by consequence, even slower ball movement into the opposition 50 - It all bodes well for the back 6, and with all due respect to Jamo, on Monday night it made him look like a 6 x AA FB the way that passes appeared telegraphed into the Saints' 50. Jamo, really, had easy pickings.

Arguably, you could suggest that this creates that 'beacon' effect in the opposition's forwardline. IE The movement, in being so slow, hems the opposition into one flank, and thus allows the crumbers to decipher which side of the park the ball will land with much greater ease. We saw it with Walks v. Adelaide, where any choice to spot up Tippett was more likely an R50 stat for Walker, than a goal for the Crows.

eg Heath Scotland

Sitting back on his heels, twisting and turning, waiting for Fev to get a ****teenth of space.

Circa 2010 and he is more direct with a multitude of competing options. The good thing is the 'failsafe' option of kicking to space for Garlett etc. is a better failsafe of a long shot to Fev when he is on 3. Our worst case scenarios are better.

 

[parrot]

Still looking very good for us fortunately. Kinda feel sorry for Fev though - looks disinterested, overweight and homesick. Can't see Vossy's gamble working. Meanwhile Hendo and Lucas are coming along nicely.

 

[serenityNow]

Still looking very good for us fortunately. Kinda feel sorry for Fev though - looks disinterested, overweight and homesick. Can't see Vossy's gamble working. Meanwhile Hendo and Lucas are coming along nicely.

Doesn't look like he's enjoying his footy at all.

 

[Bingles]

Extremely bad fit for both Fevola and the Lions.

People questioned whether or not Brown and Fev could co-exist. The amount of times both are leading into the exact same space is beyond belief. However, both are very set in their ways and it's probably too late for either to change enough for it to work out.

Brisbane have a pretty hard road home and their season could be over by the end of round 17. They have Carlton (Etihad), host St Kilda, play Hawthorn at Aurora and then play at Skilled Stadium. You'd expect that they'd win probably 1 of those 4 (hopefully not at our expense) at best.

Then they host Melbourne, play the Eagles in WA and host Adelaide in what is the easiest part of their remaining games.

They close the season with the Scum at Etihad and finally the Swans at the Gabba.

I love Kane Lucas - that was a great piece of scouting by the brains trust. I think he's going to be a 200+ gamer for us if he doesn't wind up wanting to go home in a couple of years. As far as Henderson goes the kid is just fine. He has a great work ethic and it shows both on the track and the field.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Extremely bad fit for both Fevola and the Lions.

People questioned whether or not Brown and Fev could co-exist. The amount of times both are leading into the exact same space is beyond belief. However, both are very set in their ways and it's probably too late for either to change enough for it to work out.

Brisbane have a pretty hard road home and their season could be over by the end of round 17. They have Carlton (Etihad), host St Kilda, play Hawthorn at Aurora and then play at Skilled Stadium. You'd expect that they'd win probably 1 of those 4 (hopefully not at our expense) at best.

Then they host Melbourne, play the Eagles in WA and host Adelaide in what is the easiest part of their remaining games.

They close the season with the Scum at Etihad and finally the Swans at the Gabba.

I love Kane Lucas - that was a great piece of scouting by the brains trust. I think he's going to be a 200+ gamer for us if he doesn't wind up wanting to go home in a couple of years. As far as Henderson goes the kid is just fine. He has a great work ethic and it shows both on the track and the field.

Not sure I agree with your analysis of the Lions problems but do agree they are going to struggle to make the 8. Brisbane has been without Brown for a few weeks now but Fev has not made a huge impact in that time, so it is not the set up of a 2 pronged attack of Fev/Brown that isnt working or it would have shown itself with big bags from Fev in his absence. Fev has his own issues, as does Brown seperately of each other, but I think Brisbane was always taking a huge punt in recycling so many players and it does not seem to have worked out too well for them.



Not that I care mind you, my views on him are fairly clear and I could care less how well the Lions fare.

 

[parrot]

....I love Kane Lucas - that was a great piece of scouting by the brains trust. I think he's going to be a 200+ gamer for us if he doesn't wind up wanting to go home in a couple of years. As far as Henderson goes the kid is just fine. He has a great work ethic and it shows both on the track and the field.

Well said. I'm just amazed at how well Lucas is performing in his first year. Seems to have all the attributes of a topclass footballer - footy smarts, skillful, quick, great endurance, with good height. He's also got a freaky ability to read the flight of the ball better than most. Has executed a few amazing intercepts across the back half. A great find. Hendo's a talented, developing CHF, and these are pretty rare. Perfect build for a CHF, and you can see he's super keen to develop his craft. Relentless leading like his former mentor J Brown. Hitting packs hard, and the marks are now starting to stick. His set shot technique is very good as well. It's just a matter of time before he gets it all together and starts causing some serious damage on the scoreboard.

 

[blues4flag]

Lions supporters are already turning on him. Didn't take long.

 

[parrot]

Lions supporters are already turning on him. Didn't take long.

I noticed. Fickle bunch aren't they. Anyway, Fev's landed himself a very nice $700k per year, 3 year contract with the Lions. Perhaps he's hoping they'll sack him and pay out his contract, allowing him to return to Melbourne. Would solve the debt problem.

 

[Silvagnis]

Lions supporters are already turning on him. Didn't take long.

They must have learnt that from the Carlton supporters who turned on Mclean.