Preview Essendon vs North Melbourne, Etihad, Saturday 22/07/17 @ 1:45 PM

[calyam]

Calling for his head after kicking 2 in a 10 goal win? Exactly what it is

Maybe watch the games he has played over the past six weeks. Then you'll understand.

 

[Teflon Dons]

Maybe watch the games he has played over the past six weeks. Then you'll understand.

I have, I just feel like no one else has. He's looked pretty sore the last few weeks but still effective. Woosh had his eyes closed the last 6 weeks too then?

 

[eDPS]

Calling for his head after kicking 2 in a 10 goal win? Exactly what it is

Look at it this way who is better Laverde or Green? Same as Watson or Bird. We need to play the best side possible and Laverde and Watson for Green and Bird is better. If Laverde isn't fit enough then he waits but when he is fit he is best 22 no questions asked and if it isn't Green who goes out?

 

[yaco55]

Laverde never moved from the forward line, albeit he was a class above. Any change will be a like for like.

 

[Teflon Dons]

Look at it this way who is better Laverde or Green? Same as Watson or Bird. We need to play the best side possible and Laverde and Watson for Green and Bird is better. If Laverde isn't fit enough then he waits but when he is fit he is best 22 no questions asked and if it isn't Green who goes out?

For the sake of the structure and nouse in the forward line to maintain cohesion. I'd rest Tippa to get a look at Begley. Green playing permanent is important for our talls just as much as the smalls imo. Slot begs into Tips midfield rotation and give him a fortnight to rest. Been just a couple of notches down, need his explosiveness at full tilt come the pointy end. I secretly love having this argument with people. It's been so long ️

 

[eDPS]

For the sake of the structure and nouse in the forward line to maintain cohesion. I'd rest Tippa to get a look at Begley. Green playing permanent is important for our talls just as much as the smalls imo. Slot begs into Tips midfield rotation and give him a fortnight to rest. Been just a couple of notches down, need his explosiveness at full tilt come the pointy end. I secretly love having this argument with people. It's been so long ️

Ok but what about Laverde?

 

[efcboy]

Laverde never moved from the forward line, albeit he was a class above. Any change will be a like for like.

Well green doesn't move much anywhere so Laverde for green is better than like for like!

 

[Teflon Dons]

Ok but what about Laverde?

Yeah nah that's had me thinking. Colyer's wing?

Leave Greeny out of this

 

[Seb78]

Thank **** no Boomer Harvey and Wells, those two always cut us up

This is a very good point!

 

[blitzer]

Don't get the argument that just because we had a big win that we can't make any changes.
Firstly a big win in no way indicates that every single player were significant contributors. It probably says that a majority of the team won their positions though.

Secondly we are in an enviable position where we have talented youngsters knocking down the door in the VFL.

Thirdly, acknowledging strong form in the VFL helps keep internal competitiveness high and may help prevent players 'taking it easy' against the bottom sides. Every time we are a favourite we struggle to live up to the expectations.

Josh Green is mature aged and experienced. We know what we are getting from him. However over the last 5 games he's only kicked 3 goals. That includes 2 goals where literally Fantasia and Colyer handballed it to him in the goal square. That is a seriously ordinary patch of form in the context of: We have young players performing well in similar positions in the VFL and we have an under performing fringe player.

To be clear I have nothing against Josh Green. I think he's made a pretty good go of it this year and I was happy for him to stay in the team unless someone better came along. Unfortunately for him we now have an absolutely full list and he should be squeezed out of the best 22. There is nothing wrong with him having to earn his spot in the same way our other fringe players have had to - certainly hasn't done any harm to Myers or Stewart.

 

[Teflon Dons]

Honestly, Greeny played for just over an hour. Clearly hampered but Woosha continues to play him. Played 20 minutes less than Tipungwuti, had as many goals, as many touches and only 2 less tackles. 2 goals at 100% accuracy and 3 score involvements in 69 minutes. Stop it, he will not be dropped unless he's injured

*Had 11 pressure acts in that hour as well, all at high intensity = turnover.

 

[JayJ20]

The argument of "messing up" our forward structure by bringing in Laverde for Green doesn't sit well with me.

First of all, Laverde can bring the same pressure that Green can. In fact, Laverde has the strength to win his own ball in congestion and stick tackles. He is also more versatile than Green.

Second of all, Laverde can crumb like we saw today and has a good goal sense, just like Green.

The biggest sticking point for me is that Laverde is actually able to compete in the air. Too many times, we kick it to Green's head. Had it have been Laverde in his place, we can at the very least bring the ball to the ground.

So the argument that we would be messing with our forward structure is not right. We would actually improve our forward structure with an extra mobile tall that can play small.

The only argument for me is that Laverde may need 1 or 2 games in the VFL.

I do like Green and think that he has played well, but if we really want to talk about improving our side, I think Laverde fits our structure better.

 

[JayJ20]

Honestly, Greeny played for just over an hour. Clearly hampered but Woosha continues to play him. Played 20 minutes less than Tipungwuti, had as many goals, as many touches and only 2 less tackles. 2 goals at 100% accuracy and 3 score involvements in 69 minutes. Stop it, he will not be dropped unless he's injured

*Had 11 pressure acts in that hour as well, all at high intensity = turnover.

He did have a good game I thought. I like him in our side and what he brings, but a fully fit Laverde would probably fit our structure better in his place I think. The competition for spots is a good thing and I'm sure Green will compete hard to keep his spot in the side

 

[Teflon Dons]

He did have a good game I thought. I like him in our side and what he brings, but a fully fit Laverde would probably fit our structure better in his place I think. The competition for spots is a good thing and I'm sure Green will compete hard to keep his spot in the side

Swap our most experienced forward for someone who'd come in and be our least experienced? No thanks

 

[akiva]

Now I haven't watched any VFL but saw Begley was fantastic in a JLT game (I think againts GC), He played aggressive and hard.
Green's replacement must be able to bring forward pressure and Begley could do so.
I think giving him a taste at AFl level this season is important.
Would like Laverde to play some midfield in the VFL for fittness so he can run out AFL games nicely.

In: Watson, Begley
Out: Bird, Green

 

[calyam]

I have, I just feel like no one else has. He's looked pretty sore the last few weeks but still effective. Woosh had his eyes closed the last 6 weeks too then?

I can't even imagine what it must be like to watch Green and think you are watching a good footballer. It must blow your mind watching every other Essendon player.

Also blind faith in the Essendon coaching staff is something that should have ended in February 2013. Coaches aren't infallible, experts make mistakes, and their wisdom isn't absolute. Worsfold is a conservative coach and Green is a conservative selection. Green has little future with the club and many other coaches would be playing a younger player with a future beyond this season.

Among Essendon players to have played four or more games Green currently ranks:

Last in disposals.
Last in uncontested possessions.
Last in 1 per centers.
3rd last in disposal efficiency.
2nd last in SC points.

So he doesn't find the ball very often. He doesn't run hard enough to find uncontested ball or put pressure on the opposition. When he does find the ball he uses it poorly. And his overall impact - incorporating everything from disposals and efficiency to goals and goal assists - is low.

He simply isn't a player that good teams have in their best-22. We have alternatives knocking down the door in the VFL and that form should be rewarded.

 

[JayJ20]

Swap our most experienced forward for someone who'd come in and be our least experienced? No thanks

Well if our most experienced forward averages the least amount of goals out of any of our forwards, then there wouldn't be any harm in trying.
FWIW, he'll stay in the side barring injury next week, but he certainly won't keep Laverde/Begley/Langford out on current form.

We can't just ignore VFL and AFL form

 

[eDPS]

Swap our most experienced forward for someone who'd come in and be our least experienced? No thanks

If we use your logic Stanton would be playing half back ahead of McGrath

 

[Teflon Dons]

I can't even imagine what it must be like to watch Green and think you are watching a good footballer. It must blow your mind watching every other Essendon player.

Also blind faith in the Essendon coaching staff is something that should have ended in February 2013. Coaches aren't infallible, experts make mistakes, and their wisdom isn't absolute. Worsfold is a conservative coach and Green is a conservative selection. Green has little future with the club and many other coaches would be playing a younger player with a future beyond this season.

Among Essendon players to have played four or more games Green currently ranks:

Last in disposals.
Last in uncontested possessions.
Last in 1 per centers.
3rd last in disposal efficiency.
2nd last in SC points.

So he doesn't find the ball very often. He doesn't run hard enough to find uncontested ball or put pressure on the opposition. When he does find the ball he uses it poorly. And his overall impact - incorporating everything from disposals and efficiency to goals and goal assists - is low.

He simply isn't a player that good teams have in their best-22. We have alternatives knocking down the door in the VFL and that form should be rewarded.

And that entire post is the reason why you'll question why he isn't getting dropped every week, whilst me and woosh will be smoking the pipe and laughing while Greeny goes on and plays finals with the EFC.

Experience is important, too many kids causes anarchy, everyone wants to kick 6 and hold their spot.

 

[Teflon Dons]

If we use your logic Stanton would be playing half back ahead of McGrath

Eh, nice try dps too bad we're stacked full of experience but not the best disposal back there, hence McGrath's utmost importance.

Brent Stanton... lol

 

[Godzke]

Green - whilst his stats don't reflect much, his defensive pressure and one percenters are pivotal. Walla didn't contribute much up forward in the second half of last season but he was put there for his defensive pressure and Greeny is doing that. Only argument to drop him is to rest him.

Colyer - yes form has been patchy but this is a guy that needs momentum and confidence more than anything. dropping him to the vfl after a decent showing is not smart.

Bird - was better than serviceable but will lose his place to Jobe. Probably Woosha's first choice back up midfielder now (ahead of Hocking, Stanton and Langford).

Langford - has shown plenty at vfl level but very little at afl level and after plenty of chances.

Begley - if Green needs to be rested then bring him in otherwise keep biding your time son. You're not far away.

Laverde - great vfl performance but needs another game there prior to consideration.

On SM-G920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Macca18]

Should and need to win this game by 10 goals minimum.

And so it starts already. We never learn, do we?

Make no mistake... this is North's Grand Final. Every single year. They won't play anywhere near as poorly as they did today against Port.

They view us like we view Carlton/Collingwood/Hawthorn.

If we bring the intensity of the last two weeks? We win. If we don't (which wouldn't surprise anybody) ... a frustrating afternoon awaits.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

And so it starts already. We never learn, do we?

Make no mistake... this is North's Grand Final. Every single year. They won't play anywhere near as poorly as they did today against Port.

They view us like we view Carlton/Collingwood/Hawthorn.

If we bring the intensity of the last two weeks? We win. If we don't (which wouldn't surprise anybody) ... a frustrating afternoon awaits.

Agree completely. Can't believe in 2017 people think we should just roll up and win well

 

[hurlygurdy]

Green - whilst his stats don't reflect much, his defensive pressure and one percenters are pivotal. Walla didn't contribute much up forward in the second half of last season but he was put there for his defensive pressure and Greeny is doing that. Only argument to drop him is to rest him.

Colyer - yes form has been patchy but this is a guy that needs momentum and confidence more than anything. dropping him to the vfl after a decent showing is not smart.

Bird - was better than serviceable but will lose his place to Jobe. Probably Woosha's first choice back up midfielder now (ahead of Hocking, Stanton and Langford).

Langford - has shown plenty at vfl level but very little at afl level and after plenty of chances.

Begley - if Green needs to be rested then bring him in otherwise keep biding your time son. You're not far away.

Laverde - great vfl performance but needs another game there prior to consideration.

On SM-G920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don't think Green has held his place on one per-centers. I think he has held his place on knowledge and execution of the team game plan and structures. He creates space when needed and zones effectively etc... I suspect the coaching panel are more concerned about those elements than they are about individual performances. It's a compelling argument in defense of Green, but i can't help wanting Fridge to get a chance to show if he can do the team job too.

 

[hurlygurdy]

And so it starts already. We never learn, do we?

Make no mistake... this is North's Grand Final. Every single year. They won't play anywhere near as poorly as they did today against Port.

They view us like we view Carlton/Collingwood/Hawthorn.

If we bring the intensity of the last two weeks? We win. If we don't (which wouldn't surprise anybody) ... a frustrating afternoon awaits.

As a supporter you can talk about 10 goal wins, but the good thing is that i don't think anything could be further from the players minds. They have the Brisbane experience to show exactly what happens if you relax even slightly. It's why i think we might actually be in for a decent run now... I think the players will continue to bring the same intensity and then the only question is whether the football gods smile or not. If we can make the Saints buckle like that then it's hard to imagine North doing a whole lot better. But like you say, i think they will be more competitive and the run of the ball will dictate a tighter game.