Coaching Staff Eye on our Coaching (Ratten, Lade, Batchelor, Slater sign on)

[NarklesHelmet]

How do we know our training sessions aren’t the same as most if not all clubs. Common sense suggests we watch how others train as other clubs watch us and I guess all clubs train very similar.


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We know because week after week we see us fail to execute skills under pressure on match day compared to other teams. Again, unless we drafted a whole list of poorly skilled players somehow, this is a coaching issue.

 

[Impatient Saint]

We know because week after week we see us fail to execute skills under pressure on match day compared to other teams. Again, unless we drafted a whole list of poorly skilled players somehow, this is a coaching issue.

Totally agree Dangerfield said exactly that on the Footy Show. That it was all about confidence and the players having the belief to make the kicks. Some how Richo's & Kingsley's incompetence has cruelled any confidence the team had.

 

[saints2066]

We need fresh administration in the club, need to SACK RICHO ASAP

Sick of headless chook footy, kamikaze..

And get acres out of the ruck, off the bench and on the farkin wing



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[Training Mad]

Was Richo and Kingsley arguing last night in the box?

 

[plugger66]

We know because week after week we see us fail to execute skills under pressure on match day compared to other teams. Again, unless we drafted a whole list of poorly skilled players somehow, this is a coaching issue.

Why is it one or the other. It’s surely both but it suits us to be the coach because we see that as easily fixed


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[Mowman]

Was Richo and Kingsley arguing last night in the box?

I did look like it

 

[austinnn]

Clarkson educates & demands skills development of smart footballers.
They need to simple down because we have a lot of dumb footballers ...really dumb.
Unfortunately the guys coaching them aren’t much better.
Watch how many times Webster / Geary go to ground in a game once under pressure.
Then watch their opponent keep their feet and literally walk into goal , time after time .
See how many half baked efforts to hand pass the ball , hard in space rather than feeble one that is cut off.
Exception is when teammate is really close then panic handball hard ..hot potato .

Clear instructions should be to Savage kick the ball for example because he is dumb.


These have happened all year including JLT.

Watch how many times in games over this year , we have a man clear 30metres away who is ignored
the ball kicked over his head to a three against One downfield .

Or we handball under pressure to another player under pressure from a slow play only to hack the ball
to outnumber down the ground , when we simply had to push back of the mark and kick the ball.
Clearly Acres is confused because every slow play , he wants to handball..

In passing our illustrious coach made comment that we were killed on the wings .

Might have something to do with placing slow inside mids as their opponents.
Took a half a game for Dunstan to stand Mitchell.
Could not believe we did not play Marshall last night for structure with Sicily out.
Could not believe all kicks were to be directed high 45 metres from goal to one spot on the ground with
everyone flying in 1st Quarter .

Agree about the dumbness. It's the worst I've seen for a long time. It's frustrating.

 

[austinnn]

Was Richo and Kingsley arguing last night in the box?

I'm all for a change in coaching but this line that a few are pushing that Richo and Kingsley were arguing in the box is a bit much. They were hardly throwing punches at each other and there were probably only a couple of times where either party could be said to be testy.

First of all, most coaches would have 'robust discussion' especially when things aren't going well, and it's actually healthy in an honest working relationship that you are able to discuss different opinions I would have thought. The problems magnify when the discussion stops and the parties refuse to listen to each other or trust each other.

There was a point when Richo just kind of said "whatever Kingsley ya campaigner" but it probably more because they had to focus on the game.

Richo would be feeling the pressure from everywhere right now and he'd know that Kingsley would be keen to avoid going down with the ship, or even replace him as head coach.

 

[Training Mad]

I'm all for a change in coaching but this line that a few are pushing that Richo and Kingsley were arguing in the box is a bit much. They were hardly throwing punches at each other and there were probably only a couple of times where either party could be said to be testy.

First of all, most coaches would have 'robust discussion' especially when things aren't going well, and it's actually healthy in an honest working relationship that you are able to discuss different opinions I would have thought. The problems magnify when the discussion stops and the parties refuse to listen to each other or trust each other.

There was a point when Richo just kind of said "whatever Kingsley ya campaigner" but it probably more because they had to focus on the game.

Richo would be feeling the pressure from everywhere right now and he'd know that Kingsley would be keen to avoid going down with the ship, or even replace him as head coach.

I’m not pushing the line, I was asking were they arguing?

I personal think they were, and it’s about time we see richo get fired up.

And if Richo gets sacked I’d love Hamill to take over.

 

[Diehard Saint]

How do we know our training sessions aren’t the same as most if not all clubs. Common sense suggests we watch how others train as other clubs watch us and I guess all clubs train very similar.


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Well if they do, how come their skills are so terrible under pressure? If they're training it, it should be a lot better. Hell, their skills are shocking even with very little pressure.

Clearly something is not working. A lot of somethings.
You cannot put it all down to "the wrong players drafted." There is plenty of talent there. We've seen it at various stages with all of them. Unfortunately the majority of them have stagnated, if not actually gone backwards. How is this possible if not something lacking badly in development?

I've always been a supporter of Richo, but sad to say I think we've now got our own Mark Neeld. I have almost zero faith he can turn this around. ( Really, really hope I'm wrong) We're starting to look mentally shot.....and, eternal optimist as I usually am, I know I am

 

[VDS66]

Was Richo and Kingsley arguing last night in the box?

Richo squeezed an SBD and Kingsley wasn't impressed.

 

[plugger66]

Well if they do, how come their skills are so terrible under pressure? If they're training it, it should be a lot better. Hell, their skills are shocking even with very little pressure.

Clearly something is not working. A lot of somethings.
You cannot put it all down to "the wrong players drafted." There is plenty of talent there. We've seen it at various stages with all of them. Unfortunately the majority of them have stagnated, if not actually gone backwards. How is this possible if not something lacking badly in development?

I've always been a supporter of Richo, but sad to say I think we've now got our own Mark Neeld. I have almost zero faith he can turn this around. ( Really, really hope I'm wrong) We're starting to look mentally shot.....and, eternal optimist as I usually am, I know I am

Surely every club trains the same. Don’t you think playfair would be saying something to richo if we weren’t.


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[Diehard Saint]

Surely every club trains the same. Don’t you think playfair would be saying something to richo if we weren’t.


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You would hope so, I even mentioned that in a previous post, so I'm asking you, if they train the same why are our skills so horrific? Genuine question.
What are your reasons for the way we are going? I don't believe it is all down to the quality of the players. I do think the loss of the experience of Roo, Joey, Dempster has a large part to play, but I do not believe it excuses the horrible skills, the shocking goal kicking and the fact that our players have stagnated.

 

[StCicatriz]

Surely every club trains the same. Don’t you think playfair would be saying something to richo if we weren’t.


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depends how confident you are in telling someone that. aren't the saints his first job outside of being at sydney?

i'm not sure i'd be too comfortable going to a new organisation and telling my boss how shit it is. you have to win the respect of your boss and employer before you go both barrels on them. plus maybe its something you start to notice over time?

all pure speculation i guess?

 

[ScrappyDo]

I can't much stomach this idea that our players are dumb. Peeps making those comments need to go have a long look in the morror.

To make another dog analogy, as I like to do. Take Labradors. Very, very smart dogs. We train them to navigate public transport and city traffic to help the blind. Drug detection, bomb detection, you name it, they can learn to do it. Except, they are not used as guard/attack dogs coz of their docile nature, which is why they are a go to family pet for the dog novice. Q: So how come these super smart and trainable animals are always, without exception, the dumbest, most untrained, usless, annoying pieces of s*** down the dog park?
A: The owners.
The animal can only absorb the information it is supplied with. Garbage in, garbage out. Not the dogs fault.

 

[CHBench]

We know because week after week we see us fail to execute skills under pressure on match day compared to other teams. Again, unless we drafted a whole list of poorly skilled players somehow, this is a coaching issue.

I had to laugh this morning reading the paper, and Brad Scott, Brad bloody Scott highlighted how North are going to address the structure and delivery I50 following the Port blow out. They have performed outstandingly well so far this season, 1 bad game and they're onto the problem. Us? Well it just festers until you cannot ignore it. Have never rated Scott as a coach, but he looks like he'd be an upgrade at the moment.

 

[triggering bro]

Just watching the Pies & Tigers, who both look to be very good teams this year (yes, even the Pies). They both play a short kicking game. Similarly Haw last night & certainly the Giants & Crows. I’ll say it again, to be successful in the modern game focus needs to be on ball retention. Kicking short is easier to execute & marking from short kicks allows you time to assess unlike short handballs where generally you are rushed to dispose. I’m onto something here.

 

[Impatient Saint]

THE ANSWERS LIE WITHIN THE ATTACHED ARTICLE - PLEASE READ.

A very good article on Buckley and Collingwoods review and how they turned things around. Sounds very similiar to the trap Richo has fallen for just relying on pressure and numbers to the ball, when the game went past that 2-3 years ago.

www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how-the-pies-learned-to-play-the-sustainable-game-20180428-p4zc8e.html

 

[plugger66]

You would hope so, I even mentioned that in a previous post, so I'm asking you, if they train the same why are our skills so horrific? Genuine question.
What are your reasons for the way we are going? I don't believe it is all down to the quality of the players. I do think the loss of the experience of Roo, Joey, Dempster has a large part to play, but I do not believe it excuses the horrible skills, the shocking goal kicking and the fact that our players have stagnated.

I think it’s a combination of confidence ordinary coaching and average players and more importantly how the game is played these days.


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[plugger66]

depends how confident you are in telling someone that. aren't the saints his first job outside of being at sydney?

i'm not sure i'd be too comfortable going to a new organisation and telling my boss how shit it is. you have to win the respect of your boss and employer before you go both barrels on them. plus maybe its something you start to notice over time?

all pure speculation i guess?

Didn’t richo come from another club. I can accept richo maybe no good but I won’t accept we train differently to others. No way


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[ScrappyDo]

Didn’t richo come from another club. I can accept richo maybe no good but I won’t accept we train differently to others. No way


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Same taining with different emphases or oversight will produce different results.

 

[George]

Hi mate I will move this discussion to this thread if it's alright, seems a bit off topic from the autopsy thread.

i wasn't very clear with that. my point wasn't that we should have got beveridge or mccarthy. it's that we don't put an emphasis of AFL premiership experience on our candidates like other clubs do.

i 100% agree richo was the right man for the job at the time. i had many arguments on here back in 2013 that we need richardson over williams and williams was past it. but at the time i said there would come a time where we would have to make a decision if richardson is the coach we want when we contend. i said he would make a great coach to stabilise the club and list and develop the players, but i question if he has what it takes to take us to the next step.

last year was that point. i said we either don't renew his contract or we renew it if we accept we need to rebuild the football dept. but i said we should only extend it to 2019 in that case. if we were going to rebuild the footy dept then it had to start earlier than just the off-season.

we did neither. we extended it long term by an extra year and there we proceeded to make minimal change. so we clearly thought he was the guy to win us some finals and a flag, along with the team he had.

just a massively bad call that puts us in no mans land.

Oh I agree that this year has been a shambles. I thought we had progressed well since he took over, and 2015 to 2017 we improved IMO. This year a lot of players are out of form coupled with the fact I think our structure in front of the ball along with our disposal either across the ground or infront of goal is deplorable. We're ranked 18th this year for set shot accuracy just to give you an idea.

I think we 100% made the right call to sign him initially.

Very few coaches have what it takes to win a premiership. Look at the last 10 years and I'd say not even 25% of the current day senior coaches have won a flag.

Apart from that it's hard to win a premiership regardless, and the big unknown with Richardson is how he would go coaching an experienced side. What would we have been like with him in charge in 2009.

Sure some of it has to do with him and the structures on game day but we need to keep in mind the players are still incredibly young.

I think we overrated our list and now are realising it's going to take a little longer.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

A really interesting video below I stumbled across last night not thinking it was at all about coaching. Watch the first few minutes and John Terry talks about what made Jose Mourinho great (I'm not a Chelsea or Mourinho fan but respect that Mourinho is one of the all time great coaches and managers... psychologically there have been none better).

Yes it's a different sport but soccer relies on executing under pressure all the time as well so is relevant. it's also relevant because we have an all-time great in Clarko in our comp just now. Want to win a premiership? You'll have to get by Clarko or one of his "offspring" first.

 

[VDS66]

I can't much stomach this idea that our players are dumb. Peeps making those comments need to go have a long look in the morror.

To make another dog analogy, as I like to do. Take Labradors. Very, very smart dogs. We train them to navigate public transport and city traffic to help the blind. Drug detection, bomb detection, you name it, they can learn to do it. Except, they are not used as guard/attack dogs coz of their docile nature, which is why they are a go to family pet for the dog novice. Q: So how come these super smart and trainable animals are always, without exception, the dumbest, most untrained, usless, annoying pieces of s*** down the dog park?
A: The owners.
The animal can only absorb the information it is supplied with. Garbage in, garbage out. Not the dogs fault.

Correct to a certain degree. I have a friend who trains dogs for defence, police and customs. You'd be amazed at his theories about behaviour.

Dogs will act based on their limited understanding about how to get what they want. They take the path of least resistance until they are trained to do otherwise.

I get your point, but it's a bit wayward because of the intellectual capacity of dogs and humans.

 

[Mikka84]

Surely every club trains the same. Don’t you think playfair would be saying something to richo if we weren’t.


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Of course it’s both. But sacking the coach is the shortest path of rectifying the two. Recruiting half dozen players takes years, sacking the coach minutes. Everyone wants a quick fix.