Autopsy First Semi-Final – GWS Giants vs Brisbane Lions, Saturday September 14, 7.40pm AEST, Engie Stadium

[Del208273]

I'm with the thought that something needs to be done with Himmelberg.

Happens every game - Himmelberg has a mark or goal kicked on him, he'll immediately turn around and spray his team mates.

I'm more of the thinking that it's his poor positional play since he's not a natural defender.

Really is time to try something different with him, especially with the likely loss of players.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Canberra gets an overstated wrap because of the number of footy fans that consistently attend.

Canberra attendances are attended by footy fans with thanks to their southern location and favourable migration.

I had a Richmond mate from Melbourne that has the Giants as his second team attend the Hawks game in Canberra with me and he was shocked by the lack of Giants support.

I think he was thinking it would be much greater, it's not.

Our biggest Giants supporter base is clearly in Sydney, IMO.

Yes, agree about the largest supporter base. There are approx 7000 members from Canberra, so that is about 20% of our membership base from here. Also, whilst all 3 of our club’s games at our Manuka home ground were sold out this season, Manuka only has about a 14,500 capacity whilst Giants stadium has a 23,500 capacity

 

[sydney_gws]

When you've got himmelberg crashing into his own teammates all the time, ash running around like a headless chook and whitfield having his tackles broken like he is still 17 years old, it balances it out.

Whitfield just needs to do a bit more upper body gym work.
Also I meant Canberra as our best area, per head of population. Many of those GWS fans/ game attendees in Canbera would have supported a Melbourne team or Swans originally.

 

[Giant Strides]

Whitfield just needs to do a bit more upper body gym work.

Well, if it hasn't happened in the last 12 years, I doubt it will now!

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I'm with the thought that something needs to be done with Himmelberg.

Happens every game - Himmelberg has a mark or goal kicked on him, he'll immediately turn around and spray his team mates.

I'm more of the thinking that it's his poor positional play since he's not a natural defender.

Really is time to try something different with him, especially with the likely loss of players.

While our interim coach McVeigh first moved Himmelberg to the back, Himmelberg after playing other positions during the initial period of Kingsley’s tenure, seems to have expressed a preference that his best role is on our backline. Himmelberg has a contract with us till 2029, so not sure what the long term plan for him will be

 

[Big Stinky Monk]

I'm disappointed in the directions from the coaching bench last night.

Just 7 days ago, we had all momentum for 3 and a bit quarters, then killed our own momentum by changing our game to just chip around the back and then got run over in the last 15 minutes unable to get any momentum back.

Fast forward 7 days to last night ... we have all the momentum for 3 and a bit quarters. Did we learn from last week and put our opponents to the sword? No, let's chip it around again and kill our own momentum and let Brisbane take all the run.

Gutted right now. We had both those games won but just refused to be ruthless.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Yes, agree about the largest supporter base. There are approx 7000 members from Canberra, so that is about 20% of our membership base from here. Also, whilst all 3 of our club’s games at our Manuka home ground were sold out this season, Manuka only has about a 14,500 capacity whilst Giants stadium has a 23,500 capacity

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate our Canberra fans and supporter base and don't mean any disrespect. I am grateful for our members/fans from Canberra and all across the country.

It's just the comments leveled against the club and us here in Sydney which get a bit much at times. It's public perception, if newbies see these comments who is to say they won't go the Swans? You won't see anywhere near as amount of negativity as you do us. It's a complete pile on from all and sundry.

If we had a larger base here that could overcome the negativity it would be easier. Guess it means we just have to keep growing up here.

 

[Giant YoYo]

As upsetting as last night was, I am already looking forward to next season and securing the same member seats as this season.

 

[Del208273]

While our interim coach McVeigh first moved Himmelberg to the back, Himmelberg after playing other positions during the initial period of Kingsley’s tenure, seems to have expressed a preference that his best role is on our backline. Himmelberg has a contract with us till 2029, so not sure what the long term plan for him will be

Might have come down to what's best for the team rather than Himmelberg's wishes.

I reckon at the time when he was in the forward line, he was being pushed to 3rd fiddle and was lacking opportunities. The backline was his saviour in a way. A position though that I don't think is working for the team.

To me, he often appears lost and non-trusting of his team mates.

Maybe backline but move him upfield a bit.

As well as new blood, a refresh in certain areas might get some players out of their malaise.

 

[Giant YoYo]

You simply cannot go into a premiership campaign with 'natural growth' from the list and expect to win a flag. Particularly when you've already been contending for a couple of years.

Exactly, players with the fortitude to get through a finals campaign cannot be overlooked.

Not saying the youngens couldn't get through it but it's a lot of pressure and we've seen teams fold under that pressure time and time again.

 

[Andyy]

Dirty about this. Was really hoping for a GWS flag. Absolutely cannot stand the remaining teams and unfortunately Swines are my least hated of the 4.

Am so happy for Hogan though. A great AFL story to see his career revival.

I'm hoping this year wasn't a flash in the pan and that GWS is competing again next year.

I hate Brisbane. So much.

 

[Andyy]

Whitfield just needs to do a bit more upper body gym work.
Also I meant Canberra as our best area, per head of population. Many of those GWS fans/ game attendees in Canbera would have supported a Melbourne team or Swans originally.

Ahhh...he's 30 years old.

If he was ever going to put on size it would have been 8 or so years ago.

He's just a lean running type.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Fast forward 7 days to last night ... we have all the momentum for 3 and a bit quarters. Did we learn from last week and put our opponents to the sword? No, let's chip it around again and kill our own momentum and let Brisbane take all the run.

Gutted right now. We had both those games won but just refused to be ruthless.

Yes. The definition of madness is doing the same things again and again and expecting a different result! I thought our coaching staff would have reviewed the Sydney game, and come up with strategies to address it if it reoccurred. Kingsley at his press conference indicated that he thought the issues from the Sydney game was addressed, and was (rightly) very frustrated. I am puzzled why the team were making the same mistakes again and again, and why the learnings from the Sydney defeat were not applied.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Yes. The definition of madness is doing the same things again and again and expecting a different result! I thought our coaching staff would have reviewed the Sydney game, and come up with strategies to address it if it reoccurred. Kingsley at his press conference indicated that he thought the issues from the Sydney game was addressed, and was (rightly) very frustrated. I am puzzled why the team were making the same mistakes again and again, and why the learnings from the Sydney defeat were not applied.

It's incredibly puzzling why the 4th quarter has become a bit of a bogey for us.

Really would like that to be looked into and addressed. Surely having a lead would give us plenty of confidence but seems to give other teams the confidence to come firing back against us.

 

[dlanod]

I'm disappointed in the directions from the coaching bench last night.

Just 7 days ago, we had all momentum for 3 and a bit quarters, then killed our own momentum by changing our game to just chip around the back and then got run over in the last 15 minutes unable to get any momentum back.

Fast forward 7 days to last night ... we have all the momentum for 3 and a bit quarters. Did we learn from last week and put our opponents to the sword? No, let's chip it around again and kill our own momentum and let Brisbane take all the run.

Gutted right now. We had both those games won but just refused to be ruthless.

At the ground last night I noticed the change too but I don't think it was a game plan thing, I think the boys where running out of legs. Before then we would open it up and work it at least to a wing, but then it became static up ahead with fewer attempts to get into space etc. It was too far out from the final siren to bed anything conscious.

 

[Del208273]

I am puzzled why the team were making the same mistakes again and again, and why the learnings from the Sydney defeat were not applied.

In light of what you said, it's interesting to note our leadership team.

Greene (c), Coniglio and Kelly (vc), Tom Green, Harry Perryman, Sam Taylor and Connor Idun.

Time for a refresh there as well.

Happy with Taylor, Idun and Green (who should be sole vice captain or perhaps captain based on 2024). Perryman is most likely gone.

The other 3????? The captain and vice captains?????

Hmmmmm.....

Their on-field exploits don't scream leadership to me.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

In light of what you said, it's interesting to note our leadership team.

Greene (c), Coniglio and Kelly (vc), Tom Green, Harry Perryman, Sam Taylor and Connor Idun.

Time for a refresh there as well.

Happy with Taylor, Idun and Green (who should be sole vice captain or perhaps captain based on 2024). Perryman is most likely gone.

The other 3????? The captain and vice captains?????

Hmmmmm.....

Their on-field exploits don't scream leadership to me.

Yes, not sure what we do. Toby was sole captain for the first time in 2023 and was the All Australian captain, and performed exceptionally. This year, despite flashes of brilliance in some games, he hasn’t performed at the level he is capable of. But I don’t think taking the captaincy off him is the answer - the team seem to love him, and as 2023 showed he could balance his captaincy with outstanding individual performances. Whilst Cogs is currently only with us till the end of 2026, Kelly is with us till 2029, so Kelly surely has a shared stake in the short, medium and long term success of our club?

 

[ijaxcat]

Daniels on two occassions was penalised a 50 for not throwing the ball back to an opposition player. The first time it happened there was a Lions player that said throw it to me so Daniels did, but it was supposed to go to another player so Daniels got the 50 paid against him. Harsh.

The second one was a similar circumstance where Daniels had possession of the ball but was unsure who to throw it to after the free was awarded, so got the 50 paid against him. The ump explained to Daniels after the 50 was paid that he (the ump) said to give it to Payne. However, thinking about this, the ump assumed that Faniels could easily identify who Payne is. However, opposition players don't necessarily spend alot of time with each other, so it may not have been obvious to Daniels who Payne was, so Daniels may have been confused. Again, I think the 50 against was harsh on Daniels.

The situation where Daniels kicked the ball off the ground to register a behind after a free had been paid in front of goal to his teamate - the call of "play on" was only after Daniels had kicked the ball.

That’s not harsh, it’s the rule! You have to find out from the umpire who to return the ball to before
you do it. Also, the call when Daniels kicked the ball off the ground would be, “advantage,” not
“play on,” when did you want the umpire to make the call, before he kicked it?
May I suggest that you get yourself a rule book before next season, if you understand the rules
you won’t be so dismayed when something is payed against you.

 

[Del208273]

Yes, not sure what we do. Toby was sole captain for the first time in 2023 and was the All Australian captain, and performed exceptionally. This year, despite flashes of brilliance in some games, he hasn’t performed at the level he is capable of. But I don’t think taking the captaincy off him is the answer - the team seem to love him, and as 2023 showed he could balance his captaincy with outstanding individual performances. Whilst Cogs is currently only with us till the end of 2026, Kelly is with us till 2029, so Kelly surely has a shared stake in the short, medium and long term success of our club?

Good points throughout.

Greene pulled his head in last year when given the captaincy. I hope this year was an anomaly.

What you said about Kelly is valid, but I would take the vc off him and give it to Green. Coniglio to be dropped from the leadership team altogether. Would rather him focus on his game and getting fit.

Our midfield has been a huge problem this year - yet there's 3 of the 7 in the leadership group.

Something's not quite right there.

 

[Del208273]

May I suggest that you get yourself a rule book before next season, if you understand the rules
you won’t be so dismayed when something is payed against you.

*paid

Glad to help.

Got to love when an intruder gives a fellow Giants supporter a spray but can't spell.

 

[sydney_gws]

It's incredibly puzzling why the 4th quarter has become a bit of a bogey for us.

Really would like that to be looked into and addressed. Surely having a lead would give us plenty of confidence but seems to give other teams the confidence to come firing back against us.

Perhaps not enough midfield depth to give our mids more time on the bench or forward to conserve energy for 4th qtr. I was a bit concerned at 3 qtr time that Briggs seemed to play almost entire 3rd qtr, but I wasn't concerned we wouldn't win, didn't think we would make last week's defeat look better by producing a worse performance against a team not on their home ground.

 

[BarryAglett]

That’s not harsh, it’s the rule! You have to find out from the umpire who to return the ball to before
you do it. Also, the call when Daniels kicked the ball off the ground would be, “advantage,” not
“play on,” when did you want the umpire to make the call, before he kicked it?
May I suggest that you get yourself a rule book before next season, if you understand the rules
you won’t be so dismayed when something is payed against you.

We all know the rule, champ. The nuance is that 2 Lions players were standing close together and Daniels knew if he threw it to the wrong player it would be 50m. He was trying to avoid that outcome.

The "advantage" call was a matter for the umpire to interpret in the moment. We would have liked the umpire to say there was no advantage and let Hogan take his free kick. I suspect Daniels didn't hear the free kick was awarded when he instinctually played on.

 

[SouthernGiant]

Two premiership chances missed. Our window is closing. Has to be 2025. Toby, Cogs, Whitters, Kelly, Hogan and of course Ward. All getting 30 years plus. If it’s gunna happen for this group it’s 2025.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

That’s not harsh, it’s the rule! You have to find out from the umpire who to return the ball to before
you do it. Also, the call when Daniels kicked the ball off the ground would be, “advantage,” not
“play on,” when did you want the umpire to make the call, before he kicked it?
May I suggest that you get yourself a rule book before next season, if you understand the rules
you won’t be so dismayed when something is payed against you.

Isn’t there a Geelong board somewhere that you can slink off to? I am pretty sure people here can understand the rules - feel free to come here if you want any clarification though

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Btw are we still giving out MVG points to individual players for this game?