Autopsy Round 19 2024 – GWS Giants vs Gold Coast Suns, Saturday July 20, 1.45pm AEST, Engie Stadium

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We won't always be building on attendances from years pre covid as it's not linear growth in our market as a result of covid.

Some fans never came back after covid. This side of covid it's a completely different ballgame, IMO.

We had someone come with us today that I met at the Giants watch party that hadn't been to our stadium since 2019. 2019!

He is the 4th person this year alone that I've heard from that hasn't been to a Giants game since before covid. Luckily we helped him break his extended run of lack of games. He's keen to come back for the Freo game.

The other 3 are a work in progress to come back :)

I'm happy that our base somewhere around the 8k mark because we are often told our base is much lower than that. The 8k is a good base to start from, we really need to build on it but I'm fairly hopeful there's good signs overall.

We had two our usual outs today because of illness and another invitee bowed out last minute due to a clash with an appointment.
 

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The usual midfield/clearance deficit, which is something that we need to look at both for the remainder of this year, and longer term. Peatling was our best clearance winner, today, mirroring what he's doing in VFL (which is a bit concerning that it's not once of our top-line mids). Briggs down by his usual standards - unable to grab it out of the ruck against Moyle, as he's often been able to do. (Longer term, we definitely need to draft a couple of clearance-heavy midfielders who can (a) help take a load off Green and Briggs & (b) replace Ward, Cogs & Kelly in the near to middle mid-term.)

We had the orange tsunami going today, with a high handpass to kick ratio, which actually worked to advantage in the windy conditions (unlike in wet conditions) - experiencing less turnovers by hand than the Suns were doing by foot. Yes, there's always the risk of some turnovers by hand, but I didn't think we were too bad this week. We actually defended most of our turnovers fairly well.

Brilliant goal kicking percentage in the conditions. Some weeks we can be so "on", and other weeks so "off". I guess that's footy.

The pressure game from us was elite for most of the day, which was partly responsible for some of the Suns high turnover rate. Bedford as a pressure mid has been a beautiful move by Kingsley, and mirrors the value we got from Matt de Boer as a tagger in a couple of our "up years" under Leon. Green, Peatling, Daniels & Jones were also good in that department.

Defence played extremely well today, although the outcome was helped by Suns' poor goalkicking that covered up some blemishes. Strong games from Buckley, Idun and Perryman, in particular, I thought. Whitfield got plenty of ball, aided by taking a lot of kick outs, but also did a couple of really poor kicks that turned it over to the Suns coming from kick-ins, and also gave away a couple of dumb frees.
 
Initial thoughts - we would have won irrespective of whether the Suns were more accurate at goals.

If only the Giants could maintain the pressure.

There should be an edict - if you take a mark / get a free inside the F50 - take the shot at goal (looking at you, Thomas).

Our propensity to do loopy kicks means easy spoils. Just go for goal. Sick of wasted opportunities and turnovers because of our players giving the short kicks too much air.

O'Halloran continues to be an enigma. With Cumming being out for what's likely a few weeks, XOH again has to take his chances.

Cadman - I would drop for Brown. 1 goal, only because of Hogan's generosity and team play. Dropped an absolute sitter of a mark inside the goal square. He is being carried and it needs to stop.

Otherwise the team stays the same.

I jokingly mentioned pre-game that the umps would shaft us as punishment for Bedford. Wow, they added chilli to the stick. Let's see if Brisbane gets the same treatment.

And....give me twilight or night games any time. Getting out of the Olympic precinct around 4.20pm to either cross or join Parramatta Rd with drivers avoiding the M4 tolls is a debacle.
 
Section226 said:
Initial thoughts - we would have won irrespective of whether the Suns were more accurate at goals.

If only the Giants could maintain the pressure.

There should be an edict - if you take a mark / get a free inside the F50 - take the shot at goal (looking at you, Thomas).

Our propensity to do loopy kicks means easy spoils. Just go for goal. Sick of wasted opportunities and turnovers because of our players giving the short kicks too much air.

O'Halloran continues to be an enigma. With Cumming being out for what's likely a few weeks, XOH again has to take his chances.

Cadman - I would drop for Brown. 1 goal, only because of Hogan's generosity and team play. Dropped an absolute sitter of a mark inside the goal square. He is being carried and it needs to stop.

Otherwise the team stays the same.

I jokingly mentioned pre-game that the umps would shaft us as punishment for Bedford. Wow, they added chilli to the stick. Let's see if Brisbane gets the same treatment.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Apart from the 2nd quarter when the Suns upped their pressure, we looked far more dangerous. Our forwards look very good when they get enough opportunities. They looked beaten after King kept missing easy shots.

The extra handball and loopy pass cost us a few times. Seems like lack of understanding between senior players and younger guys. The defensive group did an admiral job and stayed mostly organised despite the number of inside 50s they had to repel.

I think Bedford's inside pressure was great and caused a lot of issues for the Suns.
Brigg's didn't bother jumping that much against Moyle so I wonder if he has a small niggle or decided it wasn't worth it at a certain point.

Umpiring was...typical
 
BarryAglett said:
Crowd 8013 not great but still a decent atmosphere.
Click to expand...
Actually a bit surprised, I thought we'd crack 10k with the numbers in the opposite stands from the junior club promo this week.
 

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I could be totally wrong on this and could well be perception...

Is it my imagination, but is the bulk of play on the Cumberland Stand side of the ground for every game we play at Engie/Giants Stadium????

i.e. opposite the Members' side.
 

Adam Kingsley speaks out about Toby Bedford suspension saga after GWS Giants’ win over Gold Coast​

GWS coach Adam Kingsley has taken a lighthearted jab at the tribunal after Toby Bedford played a key role in the club’s victory over Gold Coast following a week of appeal and suspension drama.

Lachlan McKirdy July 20, 2024 - 6:18PM

Giants coach Adam Kingsley summed up his club’s emotions, and frustrations, best around the Toby Bedford saga following their 39-point win over Gold Coast.

“He didn’t get himself into trouble this week which is nice,” Kingsley said with his tongue planted firmly in cheek.
“(He) was a bit more of a reasonable player in his tackling, so that was good.”

After a week of Zoom call board hearings and endless headlines featuring his name, Bedford put all that behind him to be one of the Giants’ best against the Suns.

Despite being so heavily scrutinised for the incident involving Richmond’s Tim Taranto, he came out with a point to prove on Saturday and finished with a game-high 14 tackles against Gold Coast.

It was a solid indicator of the maturity of both Bedford and this Giants’ side that they’re prepared to take on adversity and find a way to play their best football each weekend.
However, Bedford admitted that the constant discussions surrounding his technique naturally played on his mind.

“I’m not gonna lie, I was thinking about it at times out there,” Bedford said.

“I think there was one instance where I actually had the hands go up because it was the exact same tackle.

“I really tried. It’s a bit annoying to have it in the back of your head, knowing that I’ve been tackling my whole life. And I’ve never really been in trouble for it before, so it’s on my mind at the moment.

“I’m not gonna change my game. As players, we know when we’ve done something wrong in a tackle, and I feel like I know that line.

“So, I’m gonna keep tackling how I know to tackle and I know that that’s all right within the game. Yeah, and 14 tackles (tonight), let’s just hope not one of them gets looked at.”

It’s not the first time that Bedford has had to fight through a week of Tribunal hearings before playing on the weekend. In the lead-up to last year’s elimination final against St Kilda, Bedford required an Appeals Board hearing to clear his name to take the ground at the MCG.

And while that experience prepared him for the ins and outs of the week, he found the past seven days even more difficult given the widespread consensus around his tackle on Taranto.

“It felt a bit like that final all over again,” Bedford said. “Just another weird week.

“The last time was a bit 50-50 with people saying yes or no. But this one, everyone was right behind me. And I really felt as if I did nothing wrong at all, there was nothing I could have changed.

“I had a lot of teammates messaging me, and a lot of fans. But I just tried to stay off the phone. I knew there was a lot of talk because every time I saw someone it was the main topic we talked about.

“If it was upheld, I would have been really annoyed and I can’t say some words that I want to say.”

Bedford made the most of his reprieve with an impressive performance tagging Gold Coast’s Noah Anderson. The Suns midfielder finished with 27 disposals but only went at 38 per cent by foot as a result of Bedford’s pressure.

It was another important victory for the Giants as they quietly march their way up the table. And Bedford knows that getting four competition points when they’re still searching for their best form is vital at this time of year.

“If you’re winning, and you’re not playing your best, it’s a really good result,” Bedford said.

“It shows that when you start playing your best you can win by hopefully a bit more than you are winning now. So, we’re finding ways to win even though we’re not playing at our best. Good teams do that.

“Week to week we’ll keep working on what we’re doing wrong. And hopefully, we continue this streak going forward.”
 
That was a good win from us. I feel like for once we were the team who really adapted well to the conditions. With the Suns missing shots and kicking out on the full a lot.

We were definitely the better team, some disgracefully one-sided umpiring kept them in it a little bit, but it was nowhere near enough.
 
Last edited:
Section226 said:
Initial thoughts - we would have won irrespective of whether the Suns were more accurate at goals.

If only the Giants could maintain the pressure.

There should be an edict - if you take a mark / get a free inside the F50 - take the shot at goal (looking at you, Thomas).

Our propensity to do loopy kicks means easy spoils. Just go for goal. Sick of wasted opportunities and turnovers because of our players giving the short kicks too much air.

O'Halloran continues to be an enigma. With Cumming being out for what's likely a few weeks, XOH again has to take his chances.

Cadman - I would drop for Brown. 1 goal, only because of Hogan's generosity and team play. Dropped an absolute sitter of a mark inside the goal square. He is being carried and it needs to stop.

Otherwise the team stays the same.

I jokingly mentioned pre-game that the umps would shaft us as punishment for Bedford. Wow, they added chilli to the stick. Let's see if Brisbane gets the same treatment.

And....give me twilight or night games any time. Getting out of the Olympic precinct around 4.20pm to either cross or join Parramatta Rd with drivers avoiding the M4 tolls is a debacle.
Click to expand...
I agree Cads needs to go back to VFL.
He doesn't play much game time anyway.
When I saw OHalloran on the ground, I assumed Kingsley had subbed Cadman off.
 
sydney_gws said:
I agree Cads needs to go back to VFL.
He doesn't play much game time anyway.
When I saw OHalloran on the ground, I assumed Kingsley had subbed Cadman off.
Click to expand...

Cadman’s problem is that his role at VFL level bears absolutely no relationship to his role at AFL level. In the VFL he is the number 1 forward, he runs the patterns, makes the leads etc. and is the focus of the guys further up the field running the offence through him. At AFL level he is the third tall with the focus going through Hogan who runs the patterns he runs in the VFL.

Going back to the VFL is not going to help him, because he’ll take 10 marks and kick 5 goals and look like a world beater and be called up to AFL level again, and again be that third tall option who is running decoys for hogan.

Most other players don’t face that - a ruckman is a ruckman, a small forward a small forward, a halfback flanker plays the same role at both levels, as does a winger. Even a second or third tall forward plays the same role at both levels (eg. Callum Brown). But when Cadman goes back to the VFL he’s not playing that same role. He’s playing a completely different role - so when he comes back up and doesn’t kick a bag, we all, as fans, jump on his case and call for him to go back down.

I’ve been guilty of it. But the more I think about it, the more I have sympathy for him and where he fits into the team and what his role at the AFL level actually is. And how difficult it must be for him week to week bouncing between 2 different roles at 2 different levels.
 
Section226 said:
Cadman - I would drop for Brown. 1 goal, only because of Hogan's generosity and team play. Dropped an absolute sitter of a mark inside the goal square. He is being carried and it needs to stop.
Click to expand...
It’s an interesting one. There’s no question that Brown is a top 22 player when in form, but since initially being dropped he hasn’t been able to force his way back into the side. We all love the skills and athleticism he brings but it’s obvious the coaches are not seeing improvements in the areas they told him to work on.

Cadman is and probably always will be a victim of the high expectations that come with being a top draft pick.

However, he too has been dropped already in recent weeks, so the people calling for him to be dropped again have a point. He may have a specific role to play in the side but the coaching staff are clearly seeking more from him as we are.
 
Adam Giant said:
It’s an interesting one. There’s no question that Brown is a top 22 player when in form, but since initially being dropped he hasn’t been able to force his way back into the side. We all love the skills and athleticism he brings but it’s obvious the coaches are not seeing improvements in the areas they told him to work on.

Cadman is and probably always will be a victim of the high expectations that come with being a top draft pick.

However, he too has been dropped already in recent weeks, so the people calling for him to be dropped again have a point. He may have a specific role to play in the side but the coaching staff are clearly seeking more from him as we are.
Click to expand...
He kept Collins busy yesterday so freed up Jesse
 
Like others, I’m a bit torn on what to do with Cadman.

What did it for me though was that dropped mark in the goal square.

All the hard word from the backline, the ‘tsunami’, means absolute jack if a player, an actual forward whose role it is to take marks, drops a sitter. His rare opportunity to take a grab and he muffs it badly.

It has to have an effect on the team.

It certainly did on the crowd! The effects mics for Foxfooty would give a hint.

And it was interesting that Cadman was benched soon after.

A charity goal and 6 disposals for the game just doesn’t cut it for me after such a huge blunder.

He’s too good for VFL but is too inconsistent for AFL level.

A conundrum.

But he should be dropped.
 
Section226 said:
Like others, I’m a bit torn on what to do with Cadman.

What did it for me though was that dropped mark in the goal square.

All the hard word from the backline, the ‘tsunami’, means absolute jack if a player, an actual forward whose role it is to take marks, drops a sitter. His rare opportunity to take a grab and he muffs it badly.

It has to have an effect on the team.

It certainly did on the crowd! The effects mics for Foxfooty would give a hint.

And it was interesting that Cadman was benched soon after.

A charity goal and 6 disposals for the game just doesn’t cut it for me after such a huge blunder.

He’s too good for VFL but is too inconsistent for AFL level.

A conundrum.

But he should be dropped.
Click to expand...
I was about 30 metres away when he dropped that mark. He looked pretty devastated after that.
The key is he will be better next year, so he is too good for vfl but not quite there at AFL level yet.
I think he, riccardi, Hogan,Briggs rotate between 3 spots anyway, you never see Riccardi, Hogan, Riccardi on the forward line together.
Maybe we should play Cadman as a tall HFF,
in the role Brown was playing. Also with Toby and Hogan rightfully commanding so much of the ball it is hard for Cadman, as it was for Hawkins across 2008 to 2010 at geelong. Steve Johnson and Chapman had the ball alot .
 
sydney_gws said:
The key is he will be better next year, so he is too good for vfl but not quite there at AFL level yet.
I think he, riccardi, Hogan,Briggs rotate between 3 spots anyway, you never see Riccardi, Hogan, Riccardi on the forward line together.
Maybe we should play Cadman as a tall HFF,
in the role Brown was playing.
Click to expand...

Agree with everything until the last bit!

Instead of using Cadman in the role Brown was playing, just use Brown!

If as suggested Cadman's role is more of a decoy, allowing the other forwards space, I would rather have Brown with the superior athleticism keeping an opponent busy and running them around.

Might be a different role, but using Bedford as an example, it could well be a role beneficial to the team as well as the player.

You're also spot on regarding Cadman's reaction after dropping the mark. To his credit, he did chase (more lope) and just about laid a tackle at the 50, but it was obvious that he knew he'd stuffed up, badly.
 

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Autopsy Round 19 2024 – GWS Giants vs Gold Coast Suns, Saturday July 20, 1.45pm AEST, Engie Stadium

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