Freo and the never ending rebuild

[WilloTree]

King. Less off field issues

Close one for me. Certainly the version of Jesse Hogan that came to Freo was a waste of space, but the one that's playing right now would have us flag favorites. Also doesn't appear to have any off-field issues. King would cost twice as much but is 5 years younger and could still have a bit of ceiling left. King might suit the list better.

For right now, I'd take Hogan. For longer term it's King (obviously). I'd love either of them I reckon.

In the wash up, I guess trading for Hogan was absolutely the right move. Him being a dick when he was here is on him and he forced us to cut our losses.

I'm pretty bullish on the Amiss/Treacy duo so it's kind of worked out. but man does it hurt watching Jesse Hogan these days. He's a bloody superstar.

 

[WilloTree]

Smith is a bit fur coat and no knickers for mine

Love this saying. I'm going to shoehorn it into conversation today.

 

[poshman]

Love this saying. I'm going to shoehorn it into conversation today.

Tell us how that goes! Hilarious just thinking about it.

 

[MadMundy]

We can lament about how we could have drafted King instead of trading in Hogan, but we didn't do that, we paid the consequences for it. We've massively improved from those blunders now though with our key forward stocks.

 

[Farrand]

I'm definitely on the side of using our picks and building that way rather than trading in players at high cost. For years we've literally given away first round picks for players that in reality never helped lead us to success. For example, and it might not be popular, but I remember giving away pick 6. Just because Dylan Smith

Dylan Smith

Age

42

Ht

175cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

5.2

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

2.6

3star

M

0.8

1star

T

1.6

4star

(who eventually played for us as well) was taken at 6 doesn't mean we would have picked him as every department drafts differently. We could have taken Daniel Kerr

Daniel Kerr

Age

41

Ht

178cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

10.5

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

5.5

5star

No current season stats available

D

15.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

7.6

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

4.8

5star

and might have achieved the same success.

Chris Tarrant

Chris Tarrant

Age

43

Ht

193cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

3.2

1star

K

2.6

1star

HB

0.6

1star

M

1.2

2star

T

1.8

4star

for pick 8, maybe we could have ended up with Jack Riewoldt or James Frawley

24

James Frawley

Age

35

Ht

193cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.2

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

5.1

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

135.4

2star

D

8.7

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.9

2star

MG

135.4

2star

D

9.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.2

3star

.

I mean, hindsight is beautiful but I prefer the lottery of the draft then a player who might continue to perform well or might not.

I look at the Bulldogs and think, they have won a flag in recent years and somehow they have a ton of first rounders running around on the pitch.

Also I blame Phil Smart for a lot but at least he gave us Fyfe.

 

[Heave Ho Bro]

I look at the Bulldogs and think, they have won a flag in recent years and somehow they have a ton of first rounders running around on the pitch.

They do but it's a nice bonus when 2 of their best were basically freebies and top 4 picks to boot in JUH and Sam Darcy. But I agree we have been too quick to throw our 1st rounders around in trades in the past. I was more in favour of using the picks but some other posters have mentioned we have 2 or 3 potentially very good NGA players(1st round talents) coming through in the next couple of years so I'm more open to trading some of the picks for the right players but we should use 1 at the draft minimum.

 

[Farrand]

They do but it's a nice bonus when 2 of their best were basically freebies and top 4 picks to boot in JUH and Sam Darcy. But I agree we have been too quick to throw our 1st rounders around in trades in the past. I was more in favour of using the picks but some other posters have mentioned we have 2 or 3 potentially very good NGA players(1st round talents) coming through in the next couple of years so I'm more open to trading some of the picks for the right players but we should use 1 at the draft minimum.

True. But for me I don't want to sell the farm for Bolton or Warner. If we are building lets build rather than forcing a flag. I'd prefer to have 9 first rounders running around the field and dominating in 3 years time rather than falling over the line with mature age recruits.

 

[Lach72]

True. But for me I don't want to sell the farm for Bolton or Warner. If we are building lets build rather than forcing a flag. I'd prefer to have 9 first rounders running around the field and dominating in 3 years time rather than falling over the line with mature age recruits.

Bolton and Warner are both below 26.

I’ll take two young A graders now thanks..

 

[pK75]

Bolton and Warner are both below 26.

I’ll take two young A graders now thanks..

This. Bolton has 4 years in his prime left, Warner hasn’t even hit his prime yet and has 7 years until he’s 30! They are both perfect fits for our list build.

 

[Farrand]

Bolton and Warner are both below 26.

I’ll take two young A graders now thanks..

Sure. I'll give you Warner. Bolton is 25. Believe it or not he'll be 26 next year.

 

[Joao]

Sure. I'll give you Warner. Bolton is 25. Believe it or not he'll be 26 next year.

He's 26 this year. Born the same year as Baker but December vs Feb or Jan I think.

 

[james haish]

Completely blew a chance in the most open season in history. This is a club with no guts, and little reason to exist. Would have been better for everyone if it had never been founded.

 

[The Lobbster]

Completely blew a chance in the most open season in history. This is a club with no guts, and little reason to exist. Would have been better for everyone if it had never been founded.

You want to scream and cry when we lose. Fine, there’s a whole thread for that. But after some close losses the “club shouldn’t exist”. If footy makes you this mad, find another hobby. No ones asking you to be happy after a loss but the melodrama is insufferable.

 

[Gekko71]

Christ almighty.

This thread REALLY hurts my eyes to read through.

Even now, at the season's close, Freo are doing fine.

You MUST look at the whole competition, not just some select sections of one particular team, to see this sport and this league in its proper context.

You MUST also let go of Freo's past -- full stop. Otherwise it just causes pain.

The past is not the present;
The present is not the future;
And any similarity that exists between the three is only ever skin deep.

Our players are not mentally weak. They are young, and still learning the game. Most of them are still going through puberty, as puberty only really stops around the age of 25. Think about that for a minute.

Finally, mental 'weakness' does not exist. There is no such condition.

There is only ever personal mental health in general, which varies amongst individuals over time, and affects their performance -- just as much as their physical health and age does.

Don't take my word for this -- ask a mental health professional if "mental weakness" is recognised in the latest DSM manuals of mental health conditions.

For my money, their is far more evidence of "mental weakness" (ie: impaired mental health) on these boards currently, than there is in Freo's performance.

I'm not trying to insult anybody in saying this, I'm just stating an observation.

Mentally healthy people keep an even emotional keel in the face of setbacks or unexpected outcomes that life likes to throw at all of us.

Honestly not seeing much of that myself to be honest, in a lot of the posts people are currently making. Make of this what you will.

 

[Dockeroo]

Christ almighty.

This thread REALLY hurts my eyes to read through.

Even now, at the season's close, Freo are doing fine.

You MUST look at the whole competition, not just some select sections of one particular team, to see this sport and this league in its proper context.

You MUST also let go of Freo's past -- full stop. Otherwise it just causes pain.

The past is not the present;
The present is not the future;
And any similarity that exists between the three is only ever skin deep.

Our players are not mentally weak. They are young, and still learning the game. Most of them are still going through puberty, as puberty only really stops around the age of 25. Think about that for a minute.

Finally, mental 'weakness' does not exist. There is no such condition.

There is only ever personal mental health in general, which varies amongst individuals over time, and affects their performance -- just as much as their physical health and age does.

Don't take my word for this -- ask a mental health professional if "mental weakness" is recognised in the latest DSM manuals of mental health conditions.

For my money, their is far more evidence of "mental weakness" (ie: impaired mental health) on these boards currently, than there is in Freo's performance.

I'm not trying to insult anybody in saying this, I'm just stating an observation.

Mentally healthy people keep an even emotional keel in the face of setbacks or unexpected outcomes that life likes to throw at all of us.

Honestly not seeing much of that myself to be honest, in a lot of the posts people are currently making. Make of this what you will.

Mental weakness may not be the correct way to describe it.

But there is no question that in team sports like this, holding your nerve, maintaining composure and structure, trusting the process and most importantly making good decisions are things that differ between players and certain teams.

The evidence strongly suggests we are not good in this area. Numerous players have made crucial errors late in games. Some terrible decisions have cost us crucial games and now probably
A finals spot in the most even year ever.

In US sport they call it clutch players - we don’t have enough of them in our team.

The last 5 minutes of a tight AFL game are not “normal” moments. Everything is amplified then. Stakes are so much higher. Our team has tended to fold in these key periods on a regular basis this season.

The above might not be called mentally weak but it doesn’t really matter what you call it.

Acknowledging that it’s an issue is the first step for the team to improve. Posters here who try and claim it’s not an issue or it’s all down to luck are burying their heads in the sand. I really hope the club are not saying that internally.

 

[Joao]

Mental weakness may not be the correct way to describe it.

But there is no question that in team sports like this, holding your nerve, maintaining composure and structure, trusting the process and most importantly making good decisions are things that differ between players and certain teams.

The evidence strongly suggests we are not good in this area. Numerous players have made crucial errors late in games. Some terrible decisions have cost us crucial games and now probably
A finals spot in the most even year ever.

In US sport they call it clutch players - we don’t have enough of them in our team.

The last 5 minutes of a tight AFL game are not “normal” moments. Everything is amplified then. Stakes are so much higher. Our team has tended to fold in these key periods on a regular basis this season.

The above might not be called mentally weak but it doesn’t really matter what you call it.

Acknowledging that it’s an issue is the first step for the team to improve. Posters here who try and claim it’s not an issue or it’s all down to luck are burying their heads in the sand. I really hope the club are not saying that internally.

Yeah, it's called experience. We need more.

 

[Farrand]

Sad thing is we use to have some great clutch players in Sandilands, Mundy and Neale. Never forget that last 30 seconds against the Tiges.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Completely blew a chance in the most open season in history. This is a club with no guts, and little reason to exist. Would have been better for everyone if it had never been founded.

 

[eastfreo75]

I am confident of us doing well next year.

Our record for games within 13 points is 1 win 1 draw and 6 losses. Convert 2 of the losses into wins or the Cats game into a win and we are fighting for a top 4 spot. Change any of the small losses and we are in the 8.

Most likely we have picks 9,10,18,24 plus F1 to play with to bring in at least one A player.

Majority of our best 25 will hit 50 games or more by the middle of the next season and every player except Draper with at least 4 pre-seasons.

We didn't have a long list of injuries but hit our tall backs. Pearce played 15 games, Chapman 14, Cox 7, and Mcdonald 1. Draper early on got destroyed, and Davies got murdered in his first game and second was ok. As a result it affected close games.

 

[pK75]

If we are talking players lost who impacted our performance, Treacy needs to be up there! Went from 25 points up against the bombers to loosing while he was off the field. Then lost the next two games without him. Darcy and Pearce certainly hurts but no Treacy, no Freo.

 

[Quay Club]

If we are talking players lost who impacted our performance, Treacy needs to be up there! Went from 25 points up against the bombers to loosing while he was off the field. Then lost the next two games without him. Darcy and Pearce certainly hurts but no Treacy, no Freo.

Yes this is the single biggest factor that makes it so disappointing.

It's not just the goals he kicks it is the way he gets everyone around him to walk taller.

He is such a competitive beast that he hates to be beaten and splits packs.

The way he has developed this year is phenomenal and he still has improvement in him.

If we don't end up making finals it will be another lost opportunity for us but he is the biggest shining light to take out of it.

 

[Freomaniac]

we need to trade for more mature agers e.g. Warner or Bolton. The hawks have always had a balance of doing this and drafting young players. Granted it’s easier for Victorian teams but there are WA born prospects wanting to come home and we don’t have time to wait for a young mid or crafty forward to develop, if they do. We have the capital now. Keep one first rounder for the draft this year, because apparently it’s a good one, use the other two to bolster the list.

No point trading for decent experienced players because they will turn to not be motivated or turn to poo when they come here.

Remember jesse Hogan? Very good at Melbourne , gets traded to the dockers and doesnt care about his career. He gets traded for pick 54 on a one year deal. He strangely pulls his finger out of his bum and revives his career there. He is likely to win the coleman medal now.

 

[Freomaniac]

Never ending rebuild? Tbh we’re still one of the bottom four lists for age.

We can use that as an excuse but we’ve really got to look at why thats the case when we started rebuilding in 2016 IMO.

Can’t help but think that most of our outs over the next two years will be older than 28 so I’m not sure our average age is rising that quickly either.

This excuse is starting to wear thin now.

We have a good young squad... etc.

We got some good young Victorian players. But what happens when they have had enough seeing the club under perform and still not make finals?

We could lose Brayshaw next season as a free agent in 2025. We could lose Serong and Young as free agents in 2027 as well. What then?

We go back down the bottom 6 and rebuild. Its a never ending cycle of mediocirty.

 

[Freomaniac]

Absolutely mate. Splitting pick 6 for Lobb was genuine insanity. Have gone into detail before on these boards about how we basically gifted port Adelaide their core midfield for the next decade with this move.
It’s up there with the worst trades ever done by this club.

Nah....

The Lobb trade isnt even close to the worst trade freo has done.

Freo trading pick 11 and 19 to GWS for Rory Lobb , Pick 14, pick 43 and 47 wasnt a bad trade. The key part of that was nailing those picks.

Remember the Luke Jackson trade? We gave the demons Pick 13, our 2023 1st rounder (Pick 5) and 2023 2nd rounder (Around pick 23)

Yes we got Luke Jackon in return and picks 44 and 67. That pick 44 ended up as Tom Emmett and pick 67 ended up as Corey Wagner.

Was the luke jackson a bad trade? We traded way overs to get him. Emmett and Wagner ended up being solid pick ups

 

[PurpleEyes]

We can still finish anywhere from 1st to 12th depending on who wins what in the remaining 4 rounds.

The last team to win a premiership with less than 13 players in the team who had played at least 50 games for that club was 1997 (Adelaide). This is Freo's first season since our rebuild years (of 2016) in which we now regularly have 13+ players each week.
It shows that we currently have good team cohesion with few injuries and inform players who have at least a few seasons of playing together.

I posted the above in the Freo Top4 thread a few weeks back.
On Saturday we fielded just 11 players in the team who had played at least 50 games for the club.
North Melbourne was the only team, this round, who fielded less (with 10).

So far in 2024, we have lost 9 games and drawn 1 (vs CO).
In those games, only once have we fielded a team with more 50+ club game players than the opposition.
That game was our R4 Adelaide oval game vs Carlton (Freo had 14 vs Carlton 11 by 50 club game players) which we were stiff to loose in the last 2 minutes.

We currently have 18 players (in total) who have played at least 50 games for Freo.
On Saturday, due to injuries we were missing Darcy, Pearce & Treacy.
Walters, Aish, Taberner & Hughes played WAFL for Peel.
We have another 6 players who may or may not have 50+ games by the end of the Home & Away season 2025; Sturt (41 games), OMeara (42), Chapman (41), Jackson (44), Amiss (46), Johnson (35).

For many years now, Freo have struggled to build and manage a list with enough players of sufficient experience and maturity to be competitive for an entire season.
While I can appreciate the running game plan JL is trying to develop, it is very difficult to balance that with the inclusion of much needed experience. Maybe Walters, Aish and Fyfe on the field in the last quarter on Saturday could have changed that outcome, but then again, the AFL Tracker stats show GWS out ran us to win the game.
I don't have the answers, just the stats that show you are fighting history if you think you can win a premiership with run and youth alone. Team maturity and cohesion appears to be the winning formula and that is something we continue to struggle to build with our list management strategies.