News Freo head pack of eight clubs after Jack Watts

[whiteoak]

So Jim was the Head Coach working under a different job description? If not then its pointless comparing him with Ross and Sumich.

Don't be bloody silly.

There is far more to player development than what comes from two coaches. Or just the coaching panel itself.

Especially when it comes from a legendary club figure in Stynes.

If someone like Stynes, with all of his highly publicised and obvious health issues, and his saving of the entire club financially, can't motivate a player, then I am doubtful that anyone can.

And again, he placed a lot of time and effort with the players individually, before he got too crook.

 

[The Joker]

Don't be bloody silly.

There is far more to player development than what comes from two coaches. Or just the coaching panel itself.

Especially when it comes from a legendary club figure in Stynes.

If someone like Stynes, with all of his highly publicised and obvious health issues, and his saving of the entire club financially, can't motivate a player, then I am doubtful that anyone can.

And again, he placed a lot of time and effort with the players individually, before he got too crook.

View attachment 19153

Lets break it down a little bit here. Its not and never was about Jim and his legacy at the MFC this is about Jack Watts and his inability to get the best out of himself. You obviously dont think he is any good and thats fair as it your opinion but there is a lot of people out there that disagrees with you.

He is definitely worth the risk of a second round draft pick.

 

[paul8241]

Lets break it down a little bit here. Its not and never was about Jim and his legacy at the MFC this is about Jack Watts and his inability to get the best out of himself. You obviously dont think he is any good and thats fair as it your opinion but there is a lot of people out there that disagrees with you.

He is definitely worth the risk of a second round draft pick.

Agree on all counts, bushie thinks he is a pea hearted squib, I think he is worth a 2nd rounder.

 

[Arcassius]

Don't be bloody silly.

There is far more to player development than what comes from two coaches. Or just the coaching panel itself.

Especially when it comes from a legendary club figure in Stynes.

If someone like Stynes, with all of his highly publicised and obvious health issues, and his saving of the entire club financially, can't motivate a player, then I am doubtful that anyone can.

And again, he placed a lot of time and effort with the players individually, before he got too crook.

View attachment 19153

Mark Harvey had a brain tumour, got through it. Jason McCartney had burns to over 50% of his body. Both were involved hands on in development and coaching for us - and yet - we've seen more development come from Lyon/Stone/Sumich than from them. Being a legend of a club, being someone who has dealt with public and obvious issues doesn't equate to them automatically being able to bring the best out of a player. Inspiration isn't everything. Hard work contributes a lot - something of an endemic at Melbourne that no amount of Gary Lyon, Stynes, or Viney has fixed.

What Lyon brought to our club is a systematic, consistent system that has accountability for actions. Not a pep talk and hug.

 

[Arcassius]

As a follow up - my point isn't that Stynes wasn't an amazing person for the club in what he went through and what he achieved - and he deserves to be remembered for all time as a legend of the club. I have the utmost respect for him. But it's not as if the club has failed to develop a single player in Watts - they've failed to develop ANY player - and as such the problem is in their system, management & leaders, not resting at the feet of the cattle.

You can look at us and the development and improvement from our fringe players (Suban, Walters, Clancee) and our core (but inconsistent) players in Ibbo, MJ, Duffield. Held accountable, clear roles, consistent message, high standards - and they've responded.

 

[whiteoak]

Mark Harvey had a brain tumour, got through it. Jason McCartney had burns to over 50% of his body. Both were involved hands on in development and coaching for us - and yet - we've seen more development come from Lyon/Stone/Sumich than from them. Being a legend of a club, being someone who has dealt with public and obvious issues doesn't equate to them automatically being able to bring the best out of a player. Inspiration isn't everything. Hard work contributes a lot - something of an endemic at Melbourne that no amount of Gary Lyon, Stynes, or Viney has fixed.

What Lyon brought to our club is a systematic, consistent system that has accountability for actions. Not a pep talk and hug.

As a follow up - my point isn't that Stynes wasn't an amazing person for the club in what he went through and what he achieved - and he deserves to be remembered for all time as a legend of the club. I have the utmost respect for him. But it's not as if the club has failed to develop a single player in Watts - they've failed to develop ANY player - and as such the problem is in their system, management & leaders, not resting at the feet of the cattle.

You can look at us and the development and improvement from our fringe players (Suban, Walters, Clancee) and our core (but inconsistent) players in Ibbo, MJ, Duffield. Held accountable, clear roles, consistent message, high standards - and they've responded.

Harvey and McCartney weren't legends of OUR club though. There wasn't that personal connection of having been there, done that and overcoming adversity whilst still holding a connection to the one club. Kids in clubs idolise legends. They'll crash through brick walls for legends and they leave every ounce of sweat on the field, the gym and the training track for them. But neither of those guys were legends. Not even close. Especially in a Fremantle sense.

On more than one occasion, Watts has professed his love and passion for the MFC and his utmost admiration for Stynes.

And what has that led to? We both know the answer to that.

But to take it a step further.

How many times do you think Watts has been challenged, by all and sundry, (and especially the media), to lift? To make something of himself with the opportunity he has been given!

How many times has he failed dismally when the blowtorch was applied? Every time, bar none. Where was the personal motivation to do what is such a basic thing in building up his body?

On another note, to say that the MFC has failed to develop ANY player is just disingenuous.

They don't have a great track record, but kids like Jack Grimes, Sam Blease, Aaron Davey, Liam Jurrah, Lyndon Dunn, James Frawley, Jeremy Howe, Nathan Jones, Joel McDonald, Luke Tapscott, Jack Trengrove and even that ******* Colin Sylvia have been able to forge, or continue to develop, decent careers with the club.

So, it's not exactly impossible it seems.


Don't for a second think that I am down-playing the fantastic influence that Lyon and co has had on our list. You would go a long way to find a bigger fan of them than me. They have been truly brilliant.

But I'll tell you my opinion of the big difference between why Lyon has has been so influential on players like Son-Son, Clancee, Suban and MJ.

Hunger! And that's all it is. And Lyon is smart enough to see that.

Sunny was brought up on the bones of his arse. And the other 3 weren't blessed with exceptional talent.

But they wanted to play the game. They were desperate to make something of themselves, because football was all that they have. Their only real chance to set themselves up in life. To be somebody. To make something of themselves that was different and better than their mates.

Watts doesn't have that.

He's a priviledged private school boy, (as was I), who was brought up in a lovely, leafy suburb, in a smick, comfortable house and has had everything handed to him on a platter. He has had his parents patting him on the head for his entire life telling him how wonderful he is. And, he was fortunate enough to also be blessed with some outstanding football talent.

But football is just a job and a pay cheque to Watts. He doesn't have the fire in his guts that Son-Son and co do. The fire that Lyon lit and stoked with aviation fuel.

He doesn't want it, because he doesn't need it.




tl;dr

 

[The Joker]

Harvey and McCartney weren't legends of OUR club though. There wasn't that personal connection of having been there, done that and overcoming adversity whilst still holding a connection to the one club. Kids in clubs idolise legends. They'll crash through brick walls for legends and they leave every ounce of sweat on the field, the gym and the training track for them. But neither of those guys were legends. Not even close. Especially in a Fremantle sense.

On more than one occasion, Watts has professed his love and passion for the MFC and his utmost admiration for Stynes.

And what has that led to? We both know the answer to that.

But to take it a step further.

How many times do you think Watts has been challenged, by all and sundry, (and especially the media), to lift? To make something of himself with the opportunity he has been given!

How many times has he failed dismally when the blowtorch was applied? Every time, bar none. Where was the personal motivation to do what is such a basic thing in building up his body?

On another note, to say that the MFC has failed to develop ANY player is just disingenuous.

They don't have a great track record, but kids like Jack Grimes, Sam Blease, Aaron Davey, Liam Jurrah, Lyndon Dunn, James Frawley, Jeremy Howe, Nathan Jones, Joel McDonald, Luke Tapscott, Jack Trengrove and even that ******* Colin Sylvia have been able to forge, or continue to develop, decent careers with the club.

So, it's not exactly impossible it seems.


Don't for a second think that I am down-playing the fantastic influence that Lyon and co has had on our list. You would go a long way to find a bigger fan of them than me. They have been truly brilliant.

But I'll tell you my opinion of the big difference between why Lyon has has been so influential on players like Son-Son, Clancee, Suban and MJ.

Hunger! And that's all it is. And Lyon is smart enough to see that.

Sunny was brought up on the bones of his arse. And the other 3 weren't blessed with exceptional talent.

But they wanted to play the game. They were desperate to make something of themselves, because football was all that they have. Their only real chance to set themselves up in life. To be somebody. To make something of themselves that was different and better than their mates.

Watts doesn't have that.

He's a priviledged private school boy, (as was I), who was brought up in a lovely, leafy suburb, in a smick, comfortable house and has had everything handed to him on a platter. He has had his parents patting him on the head for his entire life telling him how wonderful he is. And, he was fortunate enough to also be blessed with some outstanding football talent.

But football is just a job and a pay cheque to Watts. He doesn't have the fire in his guts that Son-Son and co do. The fire that Lyon lit and stoked with aviation fuel.

He doesn't want it, because he doesn't need it.




tl;dr

Hunger, you want hunger? How about having the whole football world telling him he is and will always be second best and a major disappointment if he doesnt pull his finger out.

 

[whiteoak]

Hunger, you want hunger? How about having the whole football world telling him he is and will always be second best and a major disappointment if he doesnt pull his finger out.

Way to miss the point or what? Have another read.

Watts has had that motivation for years now, and look what's happened.

Nothing.

 

[The Joker]

Way to miss the point or what? Have another read.

Watts has had that motivation for years now, and look what's happened.

Nothing.

All you have said is how Jacks game hasnt evovled on the back of Jim Stynes and his battles as if its a given. Now If that doesnt work, because it hasnt, then surely its time to try (im only saying try) something else.

 

[whiteoak]

All you have said is how Jacks game hasnt evovled on the back of Jim Stynes and his battles as if its a given. Now If that doesnt work, because it hasnt, then surely its time to try (im only saying try) something else.

I don't want to take the piss too much...

But is English your second language or do you have attention span deficiencies with long texts?

Because seriously...if that's all you got out of it...

 

[The Joker]

I don't want to take the piss too much...

But is English your second language or do you have attention span deficiencies with long texts?

Because seriously...if that's all you got out of it...

Here we go with again with University lecturers on BF.

Take the piss all you want champ you can trust me I wont lose any sleep over your comments, im sure you can tell from my 1000+ posts over 7 years I dont care to much about BF Legends like yourself.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

I don't want to take the piss too much...

But is English your second language or do you have attention span deficiencies with long texts?

Because seriously...if that's all you got out of it...

its a pity ... it was well written

 

[scon]

Without a doubt RBT is credited with accomplishments and skills,which are more fairly squared off as part of a coaching group development plan(probably 'whole club');how do we structure,design and prime the organisation solely and specifically to get the best out of every molecule?
The entire set-up is transforming into every-bit professional!
Lyon is the bloke who ultimately dictates the principles he wants the club to adhere to.
It's the responsibilities of this role that Lyon gets off on/celebrates/rejoices/big love in his life.The bloke has a flash-arsed level of man management subtlety and expertise.Gotta be a bit of a thoughtful joker to be able to pull that off whilst demanding that the stuff players haven't given before is the bit you're mainly interested in.
After that's all sorted and the players respect and 'buy in' to the coach's overview,they're hard-arsed intelligent parts of the juggernaut.







tl;dr[/quote]
tl;dr

 

[Arcassius]

Out of interest whitey - Duffield is an old boy of Aquinas, Pearce went to Guildford, Pav went to Sacred Heart. Going to a private school has **** all to do with anything - it just makes for a nice story. Is the private school upbringing responsible for Clancee's fat arse? Or the fact he made a choice and worked it off? You can't have it both ways.

Despite making a good story about his upbringing - Walters was going nowhere until he was put on his ass by the club and told he had to ship up or his career was over. How do you explain the fact he failed to do what was required to early in his career DESPITE being 'hungry'? Where did that hunger come from? Why did it take him to be up against the rails to make something of the talent everyone knew he had? Yes it's a personal choice to make - but the environment you're IN still has a large impact, and it took some ballsy choices by our coaches, an environment that encourages excellence and the support to make sure players on the outer don't drop their head and pack it in for it to work out.

 

[whiteoak]

Here we go with again with University lecturers on BF.

Take the piss all you want champ you can trust me I wont lose any sleep over your comments, im sure you can tell from my 1000+ posts over 7 years I dont care to much about BF Legends like yourself.

Too much for you, huh?

I wouldn't bother crafting an answer either, if I was you.

 

[Danny Cullen]

Jack Watts offers more to Freo than Bogan.

 

[Danny Cullen]

I mea

Jack Watts offers more to Freo than Bogan.

I meant Bushie. Same horse different jockey.

 

[Arcassius]

Jack Watts offers more to Freo than Bogan.

Oddly enough - I disagree with Whitey but I'll also be the first to defend him He's entitled to his opinion

 

[Seppo]

Jack Watts offers more to Freo than Bogan.

Why are you even comparing the two?

One's a well respected man who has done his part for the team week in, week out and doesn't shirk a contest.

The others a chick who plays for Melbourne.

 

[Danny Cullen]

Why are you even comparing the two?

One's a well respected man who has done his part for the team week in, week out and doesn't shirk a contest.

The others a chick who plays for Melbourne.

Was at the SCG last week. Did you hear me?

 

[whiteoak]

Out of interest whitey - Duffield is an old boy of Aquinas, Pearce went to Guildford, Pav went to Sacred Heart. Going to a private school has **** all to do with anything - it just makes for a nice story. Is the private school upbringing responsible for Clancee's fat arse? Or the fact he made a choice and worked it off? You can't have it both ways.

Despite making a good story about his upbringing - Walters was going nowhere until he was put on his arse by the club and told he had to ship up or his career was over. How do you explain the fact he failed to do what was required to early in his career DESPITE being 'hungry'? Where did that hunger come from? Why did it take him to be up against the rails to make something of the talent everyone knew he had? Yes it's a personal choice to make - but the environment you're IN still has a large impact, and it took some ballsy choices by our coaches, an environment that encourages excellence and the support to make sure players on the outer don't drop their head and pack it in for it to work out.

Duffield and Pav? Where did I mention them? Duff is just a talented, lazy ferker who copped a kick up the arse from Harvey and responded. Fell in a heap again and RTB took him to task and he responded again. Why? Because he wanted it. He'd already shown it.

I am unsure of Clancee's circumstances, however I can assure you that plenty of parents go on the bones of their own arse to put their kids through private school.

Why? It's not just because of the educational standard, but also because of the connections it gives you in life, both in business and socially.

Going to a private school as a spoon-fed priviledged kid against a kid whose parents are pawning their house and their arse to get you through are two very different things.

But I digress.

Walters had already shown us all a truckload of potential at AFL level prior to RTB's arrival. He already had that fire and passion in his guts! You could see it in his play and his goal celebrations.

However, like a tragic amount of indigenous kids, he took the easy option. He thought that he'd "made it" already and chose the slippery slope of partying with his mates and taking the easy options in life and training. Have a look at the recent interview with Ashley Sampi, and how he regrets his life choices after showing so much. Even Andrew Krak's interview tonight at half-time!

Lyon knew that he had something to work with Walters, he'd seen it before. So he challenged him and Sunny responded like I, and only a few others here, believed that he would.

Jack has shown nothing but wasted potential as a spoilt 16-17 year old kid.

 

[Seppo]

Was at the SCG last week. Did you hear me?

Didn't hear the game as I watched it at a pub. Saw our Cheersquad was way behind the field and fenceline so not sure how much impact they had on the game.
Where did you sit?

 

[whiteoak]

Jack Watts offers more to Freo than Bogan.

Is he a member?

Welcome Danny.

Out for your usual pointless abuse at me again?

Have a nice evening champ.

 

[Danny Cullen]

Is he a member?

Welcome Danny.

Out for your usual pointless abuse at me again?

Have a nice evening champ.

I thought you were the fisherman?

I've had a few so buckle up. (A post of yours where you were too scared to send a skilled rookie out to work in front of a lazy veteran springs to mind).

Loving your company as usual, but you are a little bit out of your depth.

 

[salim malik]

Lets just wait and if the unlikely happens and Jack makes it to Freo and doesnt shape up we can put in the BF boots and Bushie can say I told you so but on the other hand he morphs into a class KPP we can all put the BF boots into Bushie so it could turn out a win win for all concerned


Does that make any sense or has the amber liquid got to me