Strategy Geelong’s teamwork & cohesion

[Lunchlady Doris]

It's a set play that was really very effective when it was to Esava Ratugolea who at the time no opposition players were putting any work into and who has an impressive leap and contested mark. Then did it a few times to a contest with Danger crumbing earlier in the year after Sav went out and that wasn't as great but still ok. When that party trick is all you have left you're a bit thin on options.

But when no one seems to have any clue that it's coming, it's probably not great idea. Shows the complete lack of cohesion, communication, left hand has no idea what the right is doing.

 

[Claude Balls]

This is another myth.

The Hawks topped up when their core was in their prime.

Our core players were past their prime. All we had left were Taylor, Selwood, Hawkins and Duncan who aren't a big enough group of players.

We had top ups and kids coming into the team and plenty of old premiership players going out each year, add to that the perennially injured group it was a mess and still is.

Totally different to what the Hawks did.

I never said what the hawks did was the same. I merely said that it doesn’t seem clear to me that topping up automatically detracts from cohesion, and Hawthorn is a case in point.

Of course, it’s posible that our topping up HAS contributed to a lack of cohesion. but I’d suggest at most it is one factor among several.

 

[Max Milburn]

I'm gonna cut Gaz some slack here. It looks bad, but he had no idea that Melbourne player who run past him to nail Paddy was even there.

 

[00VicWard001]

I'm gonna cut Gaz some slack here. It looks bad, but he had no idea that Melbourne player who run past him to nail Paddy was even there.

If Paddy passed that instant earlier, Gaz would be free and kicking the ball. There is a set clearance play there - where Gary is the one you want kicking the ball to a forward, not Paddy. At the centre-bounce work during warm-ups this is what you see. Ablett was in the right spot in the drill and in this passage of play.

 

[JohnZ]

Danger plays that well until he hesitates. You can see him go to handball but hesitate for a second and get nailed.

The ideal play there is to draw that player across and to handball to Gaz once he's free.

Unfortunately on friday night, these half chances didn't go our way

 

[TEDDY24INC]

I think the lack of cohesion within the team is our biggest problem.

It manifests itself on the ground such as in our bizarre kick-in strategy which generally involves Tuohy or Stewart kicking the ball 60m straight down the middle which directly leads to multiple opposition scores each and every week. Seriously WTF?

It’s also evident as others have said in the little things - the inability to get in the face of the taggers who scrag Selwood every week; the lack of blocks, taps and knock-ons that teams like Richmond (and Hawthorn in their prime) mastered; and a lack of ‘getting around the guys’ - how often do we see players run to a teammate to congratulate them on a gutsy spoil?

Look at the enthusiasm and hunger Melbourne played with last night. And Collingwood for most of the year. And Richmond and the Bulldogs over the last two finals series. When is the last time we played with such four quarter intent? Perhaps the Bulldogs game at KP last year.

One thing all those teams have in common is a lack of recent success and a hunger throughout the entire club - fans, players, coaches. The fact we are perennial finalists seems to mean that we don’t have the same desire as those others, and it’s a slap in the face.

It might be minor, but I ABSOLUTEY HATE the way we stand individually during the national anthem while our opponents (Melb last night, Richmond last year) stand with arms linked. Surprise surprise, they play like they are united and we play like a bunch of individuals.

Anyone who’s read anything about Richmond’s flag year would know the club introduced a pre-season bonding activity where every player got up in front of the entire group and spoke about hardships they’d faced. This was directly attributed to the way they played as a galvanised unit during the year - I think I read a quote along the lines of “how can you let these guys down on the field when you know about how they got here and what it means to them?”

We saw the benefit of Leading Teams in 2007 and we have to find a similar way to create cohesion.

Meh the flag stance by us has no effect.. we went against the grain of other teams by not linking arms and win multiple flags

 

[Chappycats]

I'm gonna cut Gaz some slack here. It looks bad, but he had no idea that Melbourne player who run past him to nail Paddy was even there.

The problem is that it’s not a once off, and I’m not just talking about Gaz, it’s a team issue.
We are a team that run to receive, not run to protect.
We are also a team that overuses the footy and it breaks down against the high pressure sides.
There are multiple instances in every game over a number of years where if the receiving bloke put a block on instead, the original player with the ball would have more time and space to execute the skill needed, instead of being rushed and under pressure.
Now we can continue to play this ‘give it to me’ style but how well has it done us in finals?
Maybe if we as a team adopted a more caring attitude towards our teammates by offering the ball carrier more protection etc we will get a different outcome.
We would also have a greater physical presence in games because we certainly didn’t look real physical on Friday night, in fact we got monstered!
It might also alleviate some of Jelwoods frustration as he won’t be the sole bloke trying to lift the team all the time.
Because what we are doing now clearly isn’t close to working!

 

[Chappycats]

I'm gonna cut Gaz some slack here. It looks bad, but he had no idea that Melbourne player who run past him to nail Paddy was even there.

And I reckon Gaz knew the guy was there and deliberately side stepped him.
If you watch closely Gaz looks at the Dees player just before he side steps, not just a glance either.
The other point is what type of example does it set for the younger players?
If Gaz doesn’t shepherd or block, why should they be any different?
With a team first mentality, you are looking for these type of occasions to make your presence felt, not as another chance to add to your stats!

 

[Partridge]

I'm gonna cut Gaz some slack here. It looks bad, but he had no idea that Melbourne player who run past him to nail Paddy was even there.

Plus Dangerfield had plenty of time to get rid of it beforehand too.

 

[AM]

Hard to win any quarter of football when you have so many players not having a crack.

 

[JackFlash]

The balance was all out of whack this year. I don't think Scott knew what to do with the holy trinity? Time for new roles for Selwood and Ablett in 2019, one goes back and one goes forward leaving the midfield to Danger, Duncan and some newbies. I think we will lose Kelly, so depending on who they actually get to the club Dhalhous, Steven, Rohan etc ? They need Narkle, Jones & Constable to step up and take charge. Somehow they must keep pick 12 and if Kelly is traded nothing less than a top 10 pick will do. The first cull has occurred and listening to Cookie on SEN he is true to his word, the Cats are chasing everybody.....Freo have the picks for Kelly, but it's the Eagles who are now desperate to get him, we probably won't know anything until their season is done. Geelong must recruit with team balance in mind. and Gary Ablett will have to accept a new role in 2019. He could still play two more seasons up forward depending on what new rules the AFL introduce over the summer.

 

[Mr Meow]

Hard to win any quarter of football when you have so many players not having a crack.

That is damning. Some of these did turn it around to end up some of our better players on the night (relative to expected output at least) - O'Connor, Hawkins, Taylor and Tuohy - but the game was halfway over by QT.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Hard to win any quarter of football when you have so many players not having a crack.

For me this is just illustrative of the 'star player' culture we have developed, where the big four try to do it all themselves, and the rest of the team has bought into it. The players above will get ignored time and again as we try to kick it onto Dangerfield's head no matter what his position, or to Hawkins against 3 opponents.

I don't hold it against these blokes listed, it's the mentality that's been fostered that's the problem, not them.

 

[BotsMaster]

Plus Dangerfield had plenty of time to get rid of it beforehand too.

He was fully committed to kicking it down the line

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Hard to win any quarter of football when you have so many players not having a crack.

I'm not sure, but Menzel was barely on in the 1st quarter. Did not see him out there much at all in the 1st.

 

[JackFlash]

For me this is just illustrative of the 'star player' culture we have developed, where the big four try to do it all themselves, and the rest of the team has bought into it. The players above will get ignored time and again as we try to kick it onto Dangerfield's head no matter what his position, or to Hawkins against 3 opponents.

I don't hold it against these blokes listed, it's the mentality that's been fostered that's the problem, not them.

I agree, the "star" factor has clouded the mindset of a number of players and Geelong have developed an on field culture of leaving it to the few..Richmond are a balanced team and all work well together, they have maybe 5 elite players. How many Tigers players would a get a game with Geelong from 2007- 2009? Five is about it, but in 2018 Richmond play as a team and their bottom six are far superior to the Cats. Geelong probably have the worst bottom six in the competition currently and thiss needs to be addressed and pronto. Players must also expect different roles in 2019...

 

[Max Milburn]

And I reckon Gaz knew the guy was there and deliberately side stepped him.
If you watch closely Gaz looks at the Dees player just before he side steps, not just a glance either.
The other point is what type of example does it set for the younger players?
If Gaz doesn’t shepherd or block, why should they be any different?
With a team first mentality, you are looking for these type of occasions to make your presence felt, not as another chance to add to your stats!

OK, you've made up your mind.

 

[Max Milburn]

He was fully committed to kicking it down the line

He was. No thought of dishing off to a player in a better position who can kick the ball accurately.

 

[someday-somehow]

1. We are too slow for MCG type grounds, we need leg speed - Answer? recruiting
2. Or kicking skills are poor, hence turnovers - Answer? recruiting and development
3. We lack onfield leadership and competiveness - Answer? recruiting
4. We lack cohesion as a unit - Answer? players stay in their role and play with each other for a number of years which is?...you guessed it "recruiting and development!

Over the next 2 years:

I would like to see us draft the best young leaders we can get, it won't happen but I think Kelly, Dangerfield and Duncan should be offered up for trade for picks - and PLAY HARD BALL!
Also trade Guthrie, Menzel and Kolo - you may get a 3rd rounder for them, noone else is worth squat on the trade table (maybe henderson), everyone else we keep.

We poach the best development team we can get - throw the kitchen sink at them to get it, success breeds money so it should be returned in gate receipts and memberships (speculate to accumulate).

Then we spend 5 years bringing this team to be the best. That will give you your cohesion and real supporters will revel in watching the side mature and develop (as we all did 2000's to 2007).

They could get Dustin Martin in the off season and it won't get a massive improvement.

 

[iameviljez]

And I reckon Gaz knew the guy was there and deliberately side stepped him.
If you watch closely Gaz looks at the Dees player just before he side steps, not just a glance either.
The other point is what type of example does it set for the younger players?

I completely agree - and in-the-moment, it looked absolutely shocking, too. His habits are, that said, completely built around being the star of the team - he's not that any more.

 

[steady2]

... under Scott.

I see it. You see it.. and year on year NOTHING is done about it. I’ve been thinking about it a while and last night’s game has caused me to start a thread on it in the hope that it gets more oxygen. We will never improve until this is resolved and the purpose of this thread is to discuss this obvious flaw and work out some ways to fix the problem. Maybe there are media people reading this who can give it more attention so that the club addresses it. I can only hope, because we are going nowhere as a club until this is resolved on and off the field.

Our lack of team cohesion, especially in big games, is our number one weakness that is the core reason we underperform with the individuals we have.

We are a team if individuals that win games on the back of super performances from individuals. The media are dumbfounded at how our midfield performs so poorly despite our ‘holy trinity’ and the answer is so glaringly obvious. Danger runs one way, Ablett has no defensive pressure, Duncan doesn’t know his role since Ablett arrival, selwood gets tagged and fights behind the ball and no one blocks for each other. No.teamwork.whatsoever.

- no one helps joel when he is hit behind play, nor do they block and intimidate the tagger, this causes joel to do silly things

- no one shepherds, blocks or protects, rather - players run away looking for the cheap hb. The player gets tackled and is why we succumb to pressure

- there is NO system to our game style, it’s dangerwood bombing to Hawkins and hoping for the best. Scott has not done anything about this since 2012!

- there is NO system to our foward line

- why is their no defensive pressure? Players like Menegola trying to be the hero or danger burning team mates to go for glory and do things himself

- why is it we run it quickly down the ground only to see Hawkins on 3 defenders? Why are players unable to read their team mate’s play and get into position?

- the team does not celebrate with each other, you can see it in their body language, they hardly sing our song with any heart - I know that sounds childish but it speaks volumes in terms of chemistry

It’s like the players don’t talk or spend anytime with each other off the field. If you plucked 22 random players across the country and put them together, it’d resemble Geelong.

Richmond are not that much better individually but they play as a cohesive unit. So do Melbourne and the other top teams. They knock it on to each other, do the basics right, know where to stand and expect possession. Meanwhile we are out of position giving it to players under greater pressure.

Out lack of team cohesion is also why our bottom 6 are exposed. In a system, they’d play a role, be a cog in the machine which hides individual weaknesses.

This is not another thread on Scott and the coaches but it is their fault. Scott has been there for 7 years+ and STILL fails to get the team to gell and to the teamwork basics. I CANNOT believe this has not been given any media attention. I’m dumbfounded. Instead he is given an extension after we fail year in year out with the same problems ALL STEMMING FROM THE SINGLE FACT -WE LACK TEAM COHESION AND TEAMWORK.

I watched us lose yet another final through lack of cohesion and I’m bloody sick of it, it needs air time and needs to be brought to the front of every Geelong fans attention, so please.. what are your thoughts on how this is fixed? What can the club to do remedy our biggest weakness?

Yeah I stopped reading after the first paragraph, the usual blame it all on Scott. Yawn.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

The problem is that it’s not a once off, and I’m not just talking about Gaz, it’s a team issue.
We are a team that run to receive, not run to protect.
We are also a team that overuses the footy and it breaks down against the high pressure sides.
There are multiple instances in every game over a number of years where if the receiving bloke put a block on instead, the original player with the ball would have more time and space to execute the skill needed, instead of being rushed and under pressure.
Now we can continue to play this ‘give it to me’ style but how well has it done us in finals?
Maybe if we as a team adopted a more caring attitude towards our teammates by offering the ball carrier more protection etc we will get a different outcome.
We would also have a greater physical presence in games because we certainly didn’t look real physical on Friday night, in fact we got monstered!
It might also alleviate some of Jelwoods frustration as he won’t be the sole bloke trying to lift the team all the time.
Because what we are doing now clearly isn’t close to working!

Agree with ALL comments Chappycats and for sometime, we are a poorly coached side in many areas which also includes kick in's from points and opposition kick in's, this primarily has to do with 'poor coaching'.

 

[kickazz]

Imagine you work hard at a company, with an eye on a pay rise, a promotion, or even simply more opportunity to grow your skills, as the more senior staff move on.

Imagine that year after year, the company fills those vacancies by bringing in outsiders.

How would that affect your motivation, and morale among the team?

Good trades are important, but Geelong have been overdoing it.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Imagine you work hard at a company, with an eye on a pay rise, a promotion, or even simply more opportunity to grow your skills, as the more senior staff move on.

Imagine that year after year, the company fills those vacancies by bringing in outsiders.

How would that affect your motivation, and morale among the team?

Good trades are important, but Geelong have been overdoing it.

If that company competed as a whole for a focal goal at the end of a period of time, and bringing in those employees enabled the company, and myself, to compete for that focal goal and/or achieve it, then I’d be all for it.

IMO not a particularly great analogy, AFL and sport in general (expanded to entertainment really) just isn’t comparable to general people and employment.

 

[kickazz]

If that company competed as a whole for a focal goal at the end of a period of time, and bringing in those employees enabled the company, and myself, to compete for that focal goal and/or achieve it, then I’d be all for it.

IMO not a particularly great analogy, AFL and sport in general (expanded to entertainment really) just isn’t comparable to general people and employment.

Yeah it's a lot more cut throat no doubt.

But we just seen to be impatient with the youngsters. We often talk up how many inexperienced players we have in the side at any time, but do we really develop any of them?