Autopsy Geelong defeated by Port by 16 points.

[Finknottle]

No, he is replaced by Bradley Close. Or Francis Begbie Evans.

Ablett had an off night but Port had him under the pump and other players just were not releasing the ball to him in any space. Gary will hurt you with every clean disposal. I like Close but he is not in the same league as even an ageing GA. Happy to have Close come in for Atkins. He'd be a lot more creative and might be good riding shotgun for Ablett.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Ablett had an off night but Port had him under the pump and other players just were not releasing the ball to him in any space. Gary will hurt you with every clean disposal. I like Close but he is not in the same league as even an ageing GA. Happy to have Close come in for Atkins. He'd be a lot more creative and might be good riding shotgun for Ablett.

Thought Ablett was poor.
Yes he has an amazing track record.

The question posed implied that the track record was erased; a 10 possession, 3 tackle and 0 scoreboard impact performance from any small forward would warrant scrutiny.

edit: considering his career will come to a close in the next week or so there is no danger that his spot in the team is under threat.

 

[WeAreGeelong]

There were just some rushed kicks out but the turnovers from Duncan, Guthrie and Stewart were all after marks so under no pressure. They pulled the trigger on risky but makeable kicks into the middle and missed them all when probably a bit of go slow was in order.

Agreed - I am surprised that we seem to have gone away from the go slow style that won us so many games earlier in the season. I know everyone says we need to play faster to get Hawkins one out, but I personally think that game style we played earlier in the season was great for us. Might not have been pretty to watch, but it certainly was effective. Maybe I'm not seeing it, but I can't work out why we need to go faster when the slower play was working so well earlier on. So what if Hawkins is triple teamed - surely that means we have other players free to kick the goals if needed. I don't get it to be honest. I really thought our game plan early on in the season was working so well and I didn't see much of the slow play tonight or for the last few weeks.

 

[Live in hope]

Yes, we could have won it with good kicking but I think we’d be fooling ourselves- this style and probably the playing lst is not premiership standard. This is why we lose finals.

Thoughts on game style- unfortunately, my worry that the passing/switching game could get smashed in finals by a good contested style has been confirmed. (Many of our chances we missed were out wide - partly the by product of a passing game style that results in chances out wide). I don’t blame CScott though - I think this is the style our playing list is suited to and lacks the foot skills and speed to play the contested rebounding style that is IMO the style that wins finals.



So - Thoughts on players - performance last night and whether they have the attributes to be a quality finals player (who can play a contested/rebounding style) -



Bews - was okay, just. Not much wrong but not much influence. Physically, speed, ability to lock down and reasonable by foot means finals quality- but only just.



Taylor- just hung in there - Dixon threatened but didn’t dominate. Looks tired. A past finals champ but it’s right for him to retire.



MOC - given little room and just hung in there. A super smart player- Think he is finals quality but hope to see more effectiveness next week.



Kolo - struggled. Hesitant/indecisive decisions, and appears a little flat footed, susceptible to being turned inside out. An experienced player must be able to kick goals, even from 45m - and yet, deer in headlights. Not sure he is finals standard.



Henderson- just about best game for the club. Not there and we lose by 40 -50 points. Lack of pace is a weakness but all other attributes are finals quality. Must keep for next year and maybe 2022.



Henry- he threw himself physically about, made some good spoils and marks and has good speed which I like in finals but boy he can make terrible decisions. Totally blew the initiative with that HTB in the beginning of the third. Due to attributes mentioned, I think he’s finals potential but needs to cut the brain fades.



Stewart- i think a tag took him out in 1st half - almost unsighted. But ... Tommy is a genuine champ and you’d be a fool not to think finals quality.



Duncan - given little room and struggled. Is definitely finals quality but in twilight of career.



Danger- barely in it in first half. Great goal and some good efforts but looks tired. Clearly a champ and finals quality but needs quality help in midfield and to fix his kicking yips.



Touhy - tried hard but aside from some important moments not massive influence. Not sure fully recovered from that smashing he took 4 weeks ago. Finals quality but just 19-22 level. In twilight zone also.



Meirs. Terrible. Caught for pace, lack of strength and his quirky right foot is a liability. Super smart and elite fitness but I worry that the lack of pace and foot quirk makes him too vulnerable as a finals player. Still young but needs to fix these problems quickly. Very tempting to drop for next final.



Rohan- Terrible. Just can’t get involved in finals. Has all the attributes for a finals X factor and yet ... Probably have to play him next week but - another uninvolved game and next year he becomes depth only.



Menegola - Sam ... a great year and then back to a struggle in a final. Lack of pace and perhaps lack of mongrel means that he’s of borderline finals quality.



Dahl - really struggled. Seemed to lack energy. Has finals quality but I think he may also be in twilight time.



Ablett. Given no room. A champ but like comment on Taylor above, right year to finish.



Atkins- tried but little influence. Energy is not enough to be finals quality.



Hawk - his opportunities were all our wide. Yes, should have kicked at least 2, but don’t think he’s solely the reason we lost. Clearly finals quality but needs another A grade KP forward for support.



Stanley- was quite good, some contested grabs although faded. Finals quality but propensity to injury makes him a risk.



Guthrie- okay game by his 2020 standards but needs more A grade help. Finals quality.



Selwood- second best for us behind Hendo. A finals champ but also in twilight zone.



Parfitt - third best for us. Really good game. Like to see this repeated but I think he is finals quality.



Blitz- tried hard but not much influence. Mark is clearly finals quality but I wonder if we ask too much of him - last few years of his career need to settle him in a position - full back, IMO.

 

[cats_09]

And Menegola did exactly the same thing on the second one. Very uncoordinated and slow tonight, the old misfits

It reminds me of the halftime Auskick games - too often our guys seem to be the ones getting sucked in to the ball, they all run to where the ball is in hopes of something, and if we fail to neutralize the contest then the opposition tend to have an easy clearance

It's also why it looks like the opposition have double the number of players on the ground & free players available

When we are at our best we aren't getting sucked in or drawn in to the ball, instead we keep our width and don't allow so many free opposition players

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Henderson BOG?

straight sets I feel.

Haven't lost 2nd up from a (proper) bye since 2008 gf.

 

[Cursed Cat]

It reminds me of the halftime Auskick games - too often our guys seem to be the ones getting sucked in to the ball, they all run to where the ball is in hopes of something, and if we fail to neutralize the contest then the opposition tend to have an easy clearance

It's also why it looks like the opposition have double the number of players on the ground & free players available

When we are at our best we aren't getting sucked in or drawn in to the ball, instead we keep our width and don't allow so many free opposition players

Hinkley alluded to this at half time when briefly interviewed I reckon ...

 

[Play it Sam]

Ablett had an off night but Port had him under the pump and other players just were not releasing the ball to him in any space. Gary will hurt you with every clean disposal. I like Close but he is not in the same league as even an ageing GA. Happy to have Close come in for Atkins. He'd be a lot more creative and might be good riding shotgun for Ablett.

Close, Steven, Narkle but pretty sure they won't give Evans a game now.
I suspect Atkins will be given further chances, but Sel's hand injury
might provide an opening.
Gaz second run from a spell, expect him to star next game.

 

[BuRgeRs82]

There were just some rushed kicks out but the turnovers from Duncan, Guthrie and Stewart were all after marks so under no pressure. They pulled the trigger on risky but makeable kicks into the middle and missed them all when probably a bit of go slow was in order.

I agree some turnovers were due to some really poor skill errors.

How often due execute unforced errors in finals? Way too often.

Our game plan looks great when it comes off however I just don't know whether our high possession game (short kick, first option or kick long to a contest when in doubt) can stand up to finals pressure. Our players just can't seem to execute.

Richmonds get it forward at all costs and fast play on is a simple but proven game plan that stands up in finals.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

Well for you it was a self fulfilling prophecy.
No pain, no gain. You can't really pop in and negatively comment on players you didn't watch.

Well I don’t need to, do I? I saw it last year, and the year before, and the year before, and the year before, ad nauseam. Tell me how much improved we were, and I will laugh at you.

 

[Chinacats]

Geelongs goal scoring in last 4 first finals.

2017 vs Richmond - 5 Goals
2018 vs Melbourne - 6 Goals
2019 vs Collingwood - 7 Goals
2020 vs Port - 5 goals

YIKES.

Yes big issue just get squeezed up.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Ok I've settled down a little so here's a very short take, apologies for likely meandering and hard to follow posting, I'm not really putting a lot of thought into the structure.
Ok, so positives were that we actually came to play with the right intent, regardless of outcome of execution atleast we weren't asleep at the start of the game.
Atkins was ok and did some ok things. That's about it.

Negatives. And there's a lot. 1. Our lauded second tier of players, who had apparently taken the next step where shithouse tonight, Guthrie and Menegola were ordinary compared to the level they produced this year. Parfitt was ok, but faded in the second half and wasn't great with his usage of the ball. Stewart and Henry were putrid for much of the game and our "great" forwardline were atrocious, Hawkins missed 2 hard shots on goal, then missed a sitter and allowed it to get into his head, shit himself from there on every time he had the ball and should be ashamed of his game, the others provided very very little, Miers nothing, Dahl very little, Rohan barely anything. In fact our best forward was our ruckman, as saddening as that is.

BUT, it was in the middle we lost the game. We were fumbly and lacked composure in tight, we often handballed to players under equal or more pressure and used it poorly when given space, in the second half we were completely unable to pressure the port spread or win the ball from the contest ourselves. We have a lauded midfield, Guthrie, Menegola, Parfitt, Danger, Selwood, none of those really impacted the midfield battle significantly during the second half. That's where it was lost, it put our defence under HUGE pressure time and again and starved our forwards on opportunities to create a scoring chance.

I'm not entirely sure where the lack of composure issues has come from. Do we not recruit players who perform under the immense pressure of finals football, can we not develop them or does our coaching let them down in those situations? Is it a bit of all of the above? We lost composure against Richmond 3 weeks ago, we did again tonight and likely will do in a fortnight when we lose to Richmond AGAIN in a Prelim (should we make it, which we will). It HAS to be addressed, internally if not publicly, because this list is too good (IMO) to be so poor under pressure, and let's be honest it wasn't extreme pressure either.
We have players who are normally quality users of the ball turn to water when the heat is on, Duncan, Guthrie, Stewart and I'm sure others all made horrendous mistakes by foot for no reason whatsoever.

We have issues, lots of them, and I'm not sure of the remedy, if it's possible to find one.
I'm not even angry, or sad, I'm just disheartened.

 

[Play it Sam]

It reminds me of the halftime Auskick games - too often our guys seem to be the ones getting sucked in to the ball, they all run to where the ball is in hopes of something, and if we fail to neutralize the contest then the opposition tend to have an easy clearance

It's also why it looks like the opposition have double the number of players on the ground & free players available

When we are at our best we aren't getting sucked in or drawn in to the ball, instead we keep our width and don't allow so many free opposition players

Port were always going to try and beat us at stoppages, that much was clear since we met them last.

They did, it was well researched and implemented.

Crowded the ball,one or two off it, and moving through. And lucky with it.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

What’s your solution?

Faster running half backs who don’t rabbit in the headlights and choke the flow of play. Putting the inside mids in the right positions at stoppages, improve the structure into half forward. By the sounds of things Hawkins was not on tonight, but I can just picture numerous attempts to kick inside 50 that go to nobody, are intercepted or just thrown onto the boot. We lack that killer attack on goal in games where the stakes matter. Our pressure does not correlate with the increased demands finals make.

 

[Chinacats]

I was either him in and Ablett out but I didn't want to kill Bambi.

I thought Henry was Bambi. All arms and legs.

 

[My Tilly]

Rohan- Terrible. Just can’t get involved in finals. Has all the attributes for a finals X factor and yet ... Probably have to play him next week but - another uninvolved game and next year he becomes depth only.

Hopefully people will stop bringing him up in games we lose (such as that game against Richmond) and suggesting his absence was a major reason why we lost.
The guy is a finals flop like no other. David Mensch at 30yrs running around in the magoos was better than Rohan.

 

[Finknottle]

Dahlhaus had some good moments but we brought him into the side as this tackling machine, could apply great pressure around the contest and he didn't lay 1 tackle tonight (stat wise that is). In saying that I think he needs to stay and Close in for Miers, if we're going to have a small forward that gets so little of the ball as Miers did tonight then at least get one that can tackle, close is normally good for at least 1 run down tackle a game.

What's worse, Dahlhaus missed a few tackles tonight. Boak one time just needed to give a slight shimmy to get away from a Dahlhaus tackle and waltz through the middle to deliver a ball inside 50. And Atkins, the so called tackling machine, sometimes compared to Max Rooke, only laid 2 tackles and missed a couple as well. Seriously, this is finals football, if you can't bring the heat get out of the kitchen. Do you reckon the coaches sit down with the players and show them the video. I doubt it, because you'd only need to be told once that your effort was as weak as P. to remember not to do it again. This is why Port Adelaide won tonight. They brought the heat, they tackled like they meant it. Hinkley spoke to them after the first quarter and they came out breathing fire in the second and maintained the intensity for the rest of the game. Geelong players couldn't go with them. Psychologically, the Geelong players just can't rise to that same level. They don't have another gear. What you see in the home and away season is what you get in the finals. And Richmond has a bunch of gears they can use when it comes to finals.

 

[Play it Sam]

Ok I've settled down a little so here's a very short take, apologies for likely meandering and hard to follow posting, I'm not really putting a lot of thought into the structure.
Ok, so positives were that we actually came to play with the right intent, regardless of outcome of execution atleast we weren't asleep at the start of the game.
Atkins was ok and did some ok things. That's about it.

Negatives. And there's a lot. 1. Our lauded second tier of players, who had apparently taken the next step where shithouse tonight, Guthrie and Menegola were ordinary compared to the level they produced this year. Parfitt was ok, but faded in the second half and wasn't great with his usage of the ball. Stewart and Henry were putrid for much of the game and our "great" forwardline were atrocious, Hawkins missed 2 hard shots on goal, then missed a sitter and allowed it to get into his head, sh*t himself from there on every time he had the ball and should be ashamed of his game, the others provided very very little, Miers nothing, Dahl very little, Rohan barely anything. In fact our best forward was our ruckman, as saddening as that is.

BUT, it was in the middle we lost the game. We were fumbly and lacked composure in tight, we often handballed to players under equal or more pressure and used it poorly when given space, in the second half we were completely unable to pressure the port spread or win the ball from the contest ourselves. We have a lauded midfield, Guthrie, Menegola, Parfitt, Danger, Selwood, none of those really impacted the midfield battle significantly during the second half. That's where it was lost, it put our defence under HUGE pressure time and again and starved our forwards on opportunities to create a scoring chance.

I'm not entirely sure where the lack of composure issues has come from. Do we not recruit players who perform under the immense pressure of finals football, can we not develop them or does our coaching let them down in those situations? Is it a bit of all of the above? We lost composure against Richmond 3 weeks ago, we did again tonight and likely will do in a fortnight when we lose to Richmond AGAIN in a Prelim (should we make it, which we will). It HAS to be addressed, internally if not publicly, because this list is too good (IMO) to be so poor under pressure, and let's be honest it wasn't extreme pressure either.
We have players who are normally quality users of the ball turn to water when the heat is on, Duncan, Guthrie, Stewart and I'm sure others all made horrendous mistakes by foot for no reason whatsoever.

We have issues, lots of them, and I'm not sure of the remedy, if it's possible to find one.
I'm not even angry, or sad, I'm just disheartened.

This is the best, incisive and most intelligent dissection of tonight's game I've read.
You are so right about the midfield effort tonight. They just didn't bring it, were slow and panicked.

However and this is just me, I just don't buy into the "we go to water" losing finals mantra.
We've been lacking composure in our last few games, not just a final, barely scraping over the line.
Sometimes the skills just implode, we are not as good as we think we are,
and the other team is invariably better and more energetic on the day.

 

[Whiskers]

Absolutely sick of losing after a bye, it’s beyond ridiculous.
Winning after the bye round in 2020 doesn’t count as it was a 9 day break. Give us a full 2 weeks off and it’s like we have played the game inside our heads 20 times.

What I’m sure of is winning next week, we will back up like absolute champions as we usually do especially if it’s against WCE in Queensland. Either way I think we are winning and winning well.

Losing sucks but in the grand scheme of things we are not much worse off, still got to win 3 games.
If we did sneak a win in tonight like we did in the QF of 2016, was anyone really confident of the prelim? Swans prelim ring any bells?

Now that we don’t have a bye to contend with it gives us a better opportunity if we make a prelim.

Some like Scott don’t want to believe the week off hurts, Eg what’s 2014 got to do with 2020? Well it’s more than a pattern now, it’s a big old dirty mental demon. Lists do change but it’s an ugly past still haunting us.

I’m not much of a Chris Scott basher but that midfield you had in at centre bounces at crucial stages was bloody horrendous.
It should not even be debatable who goes in the middle at those times.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Tonight, or last night depending, really showed me that we should stop with the Crouch/Cameron/Higgins/whoever the **** else, inclusions and hit the draft.
We fielded THE OLDEST TEAM IN HISTORY tonight and failed, we have "some" ok young players, but the majority of the best 22 are old players, constantly topping up from here will do literally nothing for our chances for success.
Take the 3 first rounders and use them to get quality kids, either packaged to hit the top 10 or use all 3. IDGAF, just enough with topping up a team that's not good enough with players who aren't good enough.

 

[Finknottle]

Thought Ablett was poor.
Yes he has an amazing track record.

The question posed implied that the track record was erased; a 10 possession, 3 tackle and 0 scoreboard impact performance from any small forward would warrant scrutiny.

edit: considering his career will come to a close in the next week or so there is no danger that his spot in the team is under threat.

One bad game does not expunge an amazing track record.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

Agreed - we're not quite done yet.
I'm no gerbil-faced optimist, but I can't complain about what I watched tonight.

I've registered my doubts as to Chris Scott's ability to build the list and get them playing a brand that stands up in Finals, but I actually thought our style of play was only a few conversions away from being justified tonight, much to my surprise.

No, not done yet; that's in a fortnight's time. I think we stand a good chance against WCE on neutral territory, but COLL's game style seems to create trouble. Whatever the case, I doubt we have the team to beat RICH. It seems they are still ahead of all comers.

I don't believe Geelong has now or has had for seven years, a team that is markedly ahead of the competition. Our recent finals record reflects this.

Looking at the many different games styles of premiership teams over the last 20 years, I don't personally believe there is a specific brand that stands up in finals.

I'd also say a coach's game plan is as good as the players at his or her disposal, and that the coach's influence, while significant, is a bit overrated in our game.

On gerbil-faced optimists vs keyboard-expert pessimists...

Barracking for a football team is foolish. We don't know, coach, or play for the team. Shit, the majority of supporters and pundits have barely kicked a football in anger. We are entirely passive—there is nothing the supporter can do to control the outcome. But we invest real emotion all the same, depending on our team's results — joy, frustration, sadness and so on. 'The tides of life will be the tides of the home-team's fortunes' to quote Bruce Dawe. As I said, this is nuts (and I am speaking from experience). It seems to me that the Gerbil-faced optimists, when faced with an unwanted result (a loss), are just a bit more capable than the keyboard-expert pessimists at recognising their folly.

 

[Chinacats]

Port seemed to take their chances inside 50 tonight. Had we kicked our "more than gettable" set shots then we would have won 9.8.62 to 9.4.58

I can analyse this all night. It will do my head in.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

Kick straight and we win? Maybe not. Half of those misses were Hawkins on the boundary line or flukey snaps out of congestion. Our forward half game needs work. Its a recurring theme in finals. We don’t score enough. Slow ball moving game plan that congests our forward line where the only option we can find is Hawkins on the boundary. Not good enough. Must be holiday season on Hawkins island as it’s jam packed!

 

[Cursed Cat]

One bad game does not expunge an amazing track record.

of course not. but it was a bad game.

 

[Play it Sam]

No, not done yet; that's in a fortnight's time. I think we stand a good chance against WCE on neutral territory, but COLL's game style seems to create trouble. Whatever the case, I doubt we have the team to beat RICH. It seems they are still ahead of all comers.

I don't believe Geelong has now or has had for seven years, a team that is markedly ahead of the competition. Our recent finals record reflects this.

Looking at the many different games styles of premiership teams over the last 20 years, I don't personally believe there is a specific brand that stands up in finals.

I'd also say a coach's game plan is as good as the players at his or her disposal, and that the coach's influence, while significant, is a bit overrated in our game.

On gerbil-faced optimists vs keyboard-expert pessimists...

Barracking for a football team is foolish. We don't know, coach, or play for the team. sh*t, the majority of supporters and pundits have barely kicked a football in anger. We are entirely passive—there is nothing the supporter can do to control the outcome. But we invest real emotion all the same, depending on our team's results — joy, frustration, sadness and so on. 'The tides of life will be the tides of the home-team's fortunes' to quote Bruce Dawe. As I said, this is nuts (and I am speaking from experience). It seems to me that the Gerbil-faced optimists, when faced with an unwanted result (a loss), are just a bit more capable than the keyboard-expert pessimists at recognising their folly.

Perfect. Can you take the presser please?