Rumour GFC 2020 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists

[tielgaz]

Caldwell leaving means they have more cash to ‘match’. But they are not matching to keep Cameron, they already wouldn’t reach the $ we offered so it’s complete bullsh*t.

That is why we are annoyed and standing our ground. They are not matching to keep, they refused to cough up the $. Especially after he should be a UFA at his age and has given 9 years of service.

But I see them threading a match so here’s what I think:

Gws want players and are interested in McDonald.

Geelong
Give up 11, 33, narkle
Get Cameron, 46

Melbourne
Get 33
Give up McDonald

Gws
Lose Cameron , 46 (they won’t use anyway)
Get 11, McDonald

Overall gws get a slight upgrade on pick 10 by getting a player they want in addition. Melb swap 33 for brown. Geelong give up essentially the exact same as what we did for danger and give 46 for Higgins.

We probably get 60 from Brisbane for Nakia. So are left with:

13, 18 and 60 for the draft. Receive Cameron and Higgins. Lose narkle and Nakia.

Dreaming 2 1St rounders for Cameron as a minimum. They already have pick 10 via combo. They can give a 2nd rounders and get McDonald without us.

 

[Shadow89]

I think GWS need this cull of players (even if a lot aren’t by choice), the place seems to have gone stale. They need to starting playing their younger guys in important roles rather than just around fringes.

I'm not so sure that they can sustain a hit this big...

Just went through their list, and there are 25 players in total (when Preuss comes) who will be in their best side/not just a fringe player -

OUT: Cameron, Caldwell, Hately, Corr, Langdon, Williams, and possibly XOH

IN: Preuss

Best 22 Players:

B: Haynes, Davis, S. Taylor
HB: Ash, Keefe, Whitfield
C: J. Kelly, Hopper, Perryman
FO: Preuss, Coniglio, Taranto
HF: Greene, Riccardi, H. Himmelberg
F: Daniels, Finlayson, Bobby Hill
INT: Ward, T. Green, A. Kennedy, De Boer

EMG: Mumford, Cumming, D. Lloyd,

This is the rest of their list:

Sheridan
Hutchesson
Buntine
Sproule
Flynn
Briggs
Shipley
Idun
Stein
J. Buckley
C. Brown
S. Reid (GWS version obvs)
Shaw (retired)
Jacobs (retired)

*************************

Yes they'll get a whole bunch of top draft picks again, but then they will take a couple of years to develop. The cliff has been coming for a while, but no-one saw this sort of exodus happening all at once. Even the Giants board is worried.

If they cop 3 or 4 key injuries, things start to look really interesting for that side, in what is already a pretty inexperienced team

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Dreaming is the word that comes to mind. We are playing 2 1St rounders for Cameron and probably a players as well.

Really doubt that.

 

[Shadow89]

Dreaming 2 1St rounders for Cameron as a minimum. They already have pick 10 via combo. They can give a 2nd rounders and get McDonald without us.

You're forgetting the salary component in that hypothetical, for both Melbourne and GWS - that plays a very big part.

Also, we just came out and said today 'we won't be giving up multiple first rounders for a 28 year old FA', so it'll be MAX two first rounders - 11 and 13 - if it comes to that

 

[Lana]

I'm not so sure that they can sustain a hit this big...

Just went through their list, and there are 25 players in total (when Preuss comes) who will be in their best side/not just a fringe player -

OUT: Cameron, Caldwell, Hately, Corr, Langdon, Williams, and possibly XOH

IN: Preuss

Best 22 Players:

B: Haynes, Davis, S. Taylor
HB: Ash, Keefe, Whitfield
C: J. Kelly, Hopper, Perryman
FO: Preuss, Coniglio, Taranto
HF: Greene, Riccardi, H. Himmelberg
F: Daniels, Finlayson, Bobby Hill
INT: Ward, T. Green, A. Kennedy, De Boer

EMG: Mumford, Cumming, D. Lloyd,

This is the rest of their list:

Sheridan
Hutchesson
Buntine
Sproule
Flynn
Briggs
Shipley
Idun
Stein
J. Buckley
C. Brown
S. Reid (GWS version obvs)
Shaw (retired)
Jacobs (retired)

*************************

Yes they'll get a whole bunch of top draft picks again, but then they will take a couple of years to develop. The cliff has been coming for a while, but no-one saw this sort of exodus happening all at once. Even the Giants board is worried.

If they cop 3 or 4 key injuries, things start to look really interesting for that side, in what is already a pretty inexperienced team

There already is plenty of value in the DFA thanks to North, due to drop in list sizes teams might also be willing to part with contracted depth players for minimal amounts, on our list guys like Jenkins and maybe Atkins. Could see them having no issue adding 3 to 4 guys with AFL experience for cheap.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Geelong should walk away from the cameron deal if we have to pay more then a pick 10 equivalent. Just not worth it.

I disagree and they won't

 

[Leeds17]

I'm not so sure that they can sustain a hit this big...

Just went through their list, and there are 25 players in total (when Preuss comes) who will be in their best side/not just a fringe player -

OUT: Cameron, Caldwell, Hately, Corr, Langdon, Williams, and possibly XOH

IN: Preuss

Best 22 Players:

B: Haynes, Davis, S. Taylor
HB: Ash, Keefe, Whitfield
C: J. Kelly, Hopper, Perryman
FO: Preuss, Coniglio, Taranto
HF: Greene, Riccardi, H. Himmelberg
F: Daniels, Finlayson, Bobby Hill
INT: Ward, T. Green, A. Kennedy, De Boer

EMG: Mumford, Cumming, D. Lloyd,

This is the rest of their list:

Sheridan
Hutchesson
Buntine
Sproule
Flynn
Briggs
Shipley
Idun
Stein
J. Buckley
C. Brown
S. Reid (GWS version obvs)
Shaw (retired)
Jacobs (retired)

*************************

Yes they'll get a whole bunch of top draft picks again, but then they will take a couple of years to develop. The cliff has been coming for a while, but no-one saw this sort of exodus happening all at once. Even the Giants board is worried.

If they cop 3 or 4 key injuries, things start to look really interesting for that side, in what is already a pretty inexperienced team

Yep thanks for that, it’s a bit more stark than I realised, I guess with the exception of Cameron, Corr & Williams (due to injury) at least the guys leaving weren’t regulars last season, you’d think they target a few experienced players.

 

[The rabbi]

He could spend the whole off season just working on his kicking

He would get games next season.

Stanley is bound to miss games through injury.

 

[Shadow89]

There already plenty of value in the DFA thanks to North, due to drop in list sizes teams might also be willing to part with contracted depth players for minimal amounts, on our list guys like Jenkins and maybe Atkins. Could see them having no issue adding 3 to 4 guys with AFL experience for cheap.

That's honestly the problem though, as they probably will pick up a by bunch of those guys - whilst their sal cap gets focused on a very small amount of valued players. It just doesn't create a good feel at a club, when 6 players are being paid more than half the cap. Taranto has a B + F and he's being paid half what Cogs, Kelly, Whitfield, Greene are being paid. You can just see the rot setting in, just like it did at GC.

As an example:

Whitfield - 1 MIL
Cogs - 1 MIL
Kelly - 1 MIL
Davis - 900K
Cameron - 850K (now leaving)
Greene - 800K
Ward - 800K

What happens when all of Green, Ash, all their new kids they'll get from picks, come on? Only 2 of those players left are close to retiring, and it would not surprise me if they threw big money at Taranto, Hopper, Himmelberg, Haynes and Perryman to get them to stay. They've also recruited Preuss for 500K a year, which leaves even less for the new players coming through.

Without the promise of short-term success, players will keep leaving if they think they'll get paid/get more game time at another mid-range club. And why wouldn't they? They see a team that only values its 'star core', and doesn't value them anywhere near as much.

This is what happens when you pay players to get them to stay, rather than fixing the core problems of your club/culture - which usually run deeper than just pay disgruntlement, and usually extend to the coach, staff, line coaches, performance manager, CEO, Director etc.

Their path is exactly the same as GC before it fell, it's just taking longer because they've been cycling through high draft picks longer.

They need a new coach, a new CEO (Dave Matthews is cancer) and a new ethos to build on. What they're doing now, will just get a lot worse before it starts to get better - see GC recently

 

[Seeds]

Dreaming 2 1St rounders for Cameron as a minimum. They already have pick 10 via combo. They can give a 2nd rounders and get McDonald without us.

Not worth that. He will be 28. One is all he is worth and historical trading proves that.

 

[STPer18]

Top ten pick for a 28 year old leaving via free agency isn't a bad return at all. Think once the emotion of it all cools they will come to realise that. Hands off our picks.

 

[Seeds]

Top ten pick for a 28 year old leaving via free agency isn't a bad return at all. Think once the emotion of it all cools they will come to realise that. Hands off our picks.

Exactly. Danger cost us pick 9 and 28. That was considered quite fair for a restricted free agent Of his level and age. Danger was 25 years old. Ergo pick 9-10 seems completely reasonable for cameron.

 

[STPer18]

Exactly. Danger cost us pick 9 and 28. That was considered quite fair for a restricted free agent Of his level and age. Danger was 25 years old. Ergo pick 9-10 seems completely reasonable for cameron.

I think the AFL is on the same page if that leaked memo is anything to go by:

A leaked email has revealed how the AFL determines its compensation picks for departed free agency, the memo delivering a warning clubs not to expect bumper dividends from their departed stars.

The AFL has warned clubs they should not expect to be fully compensated for the departure of their superstar free agents.

In an email seen by the Herald Sun, the league has made clear clubs should not expect entirely equivalent returns for any player which exercises their free agency rights after eight years’ service.

But the AFL told clubs this week they should not expect bumper compensation pick returns for free agents.

The AFL memo said the compensation formula was “NOT DESIGNED to fully compensate a club for the loss of a player”.

Instead, the league advised the picks were designed to “reflect the relative values of various players to one another” after eight or more years of service to one club.

The scene is set for tense talks between clubs as the Cats have no plans to give up any of their three first-round picks to GWS in a trade.

 

[Grimoz]

North requesting a second round pick from Melbourne for Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

31

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

, thats a bargain i reckon. Hopefully that means they only want a 4th rounder for Higgins.

 

[Baudolino]

Geelong should walk away from the cameron deal if we have to pay more then a pick 10 equivalent. Just not worth it.

That's complete madness lol

Obviously the hope is to avoid paying overs but even if we do end up paying a premium it's still a deal you do every day of the week.

 

[iameviljez]

North requesting a second round pick from Melbourne for Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

31

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

, thats a bargain i reckon. Hopefully that means they only want a 4th rounder for Higgins.

North were incredibly stupid with this whole trade period, they put Brown on the table publicly and immediately wiped half his value.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

If Cameron was 25yo... i would give them 11 & 13 in a heart beat.
But he is not... he is 28.
They might of fleeced the Bombers for Shiel and even the Magpies for Treloar.
Both were 25 and 22 respectively.
They say there are plenty of ways to skin a cat.
But not on this one i'm afraid.
Pick 10 compensation looks like their best scenario from where i sit.

 

[BigCat1]

If Cameron was 25yo... i would give them 11 & 13 in a heart beat.
But he is not... he is 28.
They might of fleeced the Bombers for Shiel and even the Magpies for Treloar.
Both were 25 and 22 respectively.
They say there are plenty of ways to skin a cat.
But not on this one i'm afraid.
Pick 10 compensation looks like their best scenario from where i sit.

Because he’s still restricted ppl lump him in the same category as a Dangerfield, Tom Lynch etc who generally make the swap Before their 26th birthday. (8yrs in)

Cameron is a gun. Elite. But by his 28th birthday and with 171 games on the clock before he pulls on the hoops getting another 100 games will be decent going. Lynch is basically the same age and is already 45 quality games into his Rich career. He and Dangerfield will rack up well over 150 games at their new club.

It must be factored in no matter how good he is.

 

[Cat Addict]

If Cameron was 25yo... i would give them 11 & 13 in a heart beat.
But he is not... he is 28.
They might of fleeced the Bombers for Shiel and even the Magpies for Treloar.
Both were 25 and 22 respectively.
They say there are plenty of ways to skin a cat.
But not on this one i'm afraid.
Pick 10 compensation looks like their best scenario from where i sit.

I know the horse has bolted on the GWS culture, but imagine you are a young 18 you Vic draftee and its giants pick in the draft, you are holding your breath they don’t pick you.... If a 17 yo country kid comes to your club and uproots his life and plays for your club for 10 years (yes he gets well paid) but if he wants to move on as RFA after that time (and your GWS) you just have to let him go... You need to make the place welcoming for players. Put in reasonable service and we’ll support you.

Playing hardball with RFA just doesn’t fill those left at your club or the in coming members with enthusiasm.

Sydney have worked out the formula for NSW, study that and learn. Pick players that are on the fridge from top sides and give them an opportunity, but don’t overpay. Pump resource into your academy and draft and look after your local talent. There are no magic beans no matter how many concessions you get.

 

[Gunf]

I have said it before but FA and academies all need a major revamp after this year

UFA after 8 year and lifetime at that, compensation comes from club receiving the player

Academies lose reduction in cost to match. If they need to be taken over and run by the AFL so be it

 

[buttons91]

This board is as delusional as the Crows board if you think the Giants are taking that pick 9 for Cameron. Geelong need him (Hawkins not long left) and they will cough up picks I’m sure.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

North were incredibly stupid with this whole trade period, they put Brown on the table publicly and immediately wiped half his value.

Agree.

 

[Gunf]

This board is as delusional as the Crows board if you think the Giants are taking that pick 9 for Cameron. Geelong need him (Hawkins not long left) and they will cough up picks I’m sure.

Calling people delusion is not a good way to make friends.

But i guess this means you will be giving up picks for Williams?

 

[Overhang]

Exactly. Danger cost us pick 9 and 28. That was considered quite fair for a restricted free agent Of his level and age. Danger was 25 years old. Ergo pick 9-10 seems completely reasonable for cameron.

We got a bargain with Danger tbh, and keep in mind forwards normally peak later than mids and have a longer shelf life, Hawkins has just got his first Coleman at 32. We also handed over a reasonable set of steak knives to Adelaide at the time. We actually did rate Gore, first year player, got 3rd in our VFL b&f despite playing only 10 games, would have most likely played seniors but had an injury that delayed a debut.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

That's honestly the problem though, as they probably will pick up a by bunch of those guys - whilst their sal cap gets focused on a very small amount of valued players. It just doesn't create a good feel at a club, when 6 players are being paid more than half the cap. Taranto has a B + F and he's being paid half what Cogs, Kelly, Whitfield, Greene are being paid. You can just see the rot setting in, just like it did at GC.

As an example:

Whitfield - 1 MIL
Cogs - 1 MIL
Kelly - 1 MIL
Davis - 900K
Cameron - 850K (now leaving)
Greene - 800K
Ward - 800K

What happens when all of Green, Ash, all their new kids they'll get from picks, come on? Only 2 of those players left are close to retiring, and it would not surprise me if they threw big money at Taranto, Hopper, Himmelberg, Haynes and Perryman to get them to stay. They've also recruited Preuss for 500K a year, which leaves even less for the new players coming through.

Without the promise of short-term success, players will keep leaving if they think they'll get paid/get more game time at another mid-range club. And why wouldn't they? They see a team that only values its 'star core', and doesn't value them anywhere near as much.

This is what happens when you pay players to get them to stay, rather than fixing the core problems of your club/culture - which usually run deeper than just pay disgruntlement, and usually extend to the coach, staff, line coaches, performance manager, CEO, Director etc.

Their path is exactly the same as GC before it fell, it's just taking longer because they've been cycling through high draft picks longer.

They need a new coach, a new CEO (Dave Matthews is cancer) and a new ethos to build on. What they're doing now, will just get a lot worse before it starts to get better - see GC recently

Doing them a favour taking the cap off the books!