Rumour GFC 2024 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 2

[cats_09]

Ask and we'll try our best to assist - so here's 2024 Provisional AFL Draft Order

As normal, would like to acknowledge & thank Lore for creating this, keeping it up to date and making it available for all users on BF to use and keep track of the picks ahead of the upcoming draft





I'll also sticky this post to ensure it's easily accessible for discussion of our hypothetical trader


Also,

2024 Free Agency Period​

The AFL introduced free agency at the end of the 2012 season, giving players another vehicle where they can transfer from one club to another. Free agency is a common form of player movement in major football and sporting codes around the world.

Free Agency Opens: Friday October 4 at 9.00am
Free Agency Closes: Friday October 11 at 5.00pm

Continental Tyres AFL Trade Period​

Trade Period Opens: Monday October 7 at 9.00am
Trade Period Closes: Wednesday October 16 at 7.30pm

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Same reason if Lukosius chose the Crows I'd call up Darcy Fogarty for a chat next year

Fogarty is in talks with Crows on a contract extension.

 

[Jumping Jack]

Lol Cornes this morning saying:

"It's not a criticism, but Geelong are the hardest club to deal with in terms of getting fair value for a player"

Then goes on to say the challenge will be how do they pay all these blokes (Oliver, Smith etc).

Then goes on to talk about how the Oliver deal ****ed over Melbourne and how Freo have done similarly with their ruck deals (two x $900k long term).

Most people in the media are lazy and are just part of the clickbait crowd wanting to make bolded statements that people lap up and run with. If they bothered to really dig deep and prosecute some of their own arguments, I think most would back pedal pretty quickly.

• Geelong manage their list and the cap as well as anyone. Better than anyone some would say. We attract and retain key players and we do not overpay.
• By not over-paying we allow ourselves room to build and manage the list on the run and not be hamstrung when the right player/s become available. At the other end of the spectrum you have "Exhibit A" in St Kilda (who have been on a sook fest about how it's so unfair). Well if you build an average list - can't attract the right players - and over pay average players, it's a problem of your own making and leaves you no room to move.

Ask anyone with half a clue in the AFL landscape and they say the same thing. Managing your list and cap space is an art form and Geelong do it better than the rest. Forget good luck - forget father son and academy free hits - forget AFL conspiracy theories about everything being skewed towards the bigger clubs.

You make your own luck.

 

[CatsDoItBetter]

I’ve got Dekoning as our ruck next season but I have my doubts on him being able to play the role. I’d be disappointed to lose him though.
Even if we did get a good offer say from Carlton I’d be annoyed if it all just went on the Oliver and smith trades when if we don’t get those assets we can get them done anyway.

If Dekoning does go I’d be wanting a ruck coming back, blues could throw in Pittonet I guess.

 

[The_Todd07]

Lol Cornes this morning saying:

"It's not a criticism, but Geelong are the hardest club to deal with in terms of getting fair value for a player"

Then goes on to say the challenge will be how do they pay all these blokes (Oliver, Smith etc).

Then goes on to talk about how the Oliver deal ****ed over Melbourne and how Freo have done similarly with their ruck deals (two x $900k long term).

Everyone gets hung up on teams being hard to deal with in trades.

News flash, teams are dealing with their direct opponents. If you aren't trying to **** over everyone, you are doing it wrong

 

[Munich]

Fogarty is in talks with Crows on a contract extension.

Fogarty would be a good get.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Lol Cornes this morning saying:

"It's not a criticism, but Geelong are the hardest club to deal with in terms of getting fair value for a player"

Then goes on to say the challenge will be how do they pay all these blokes (Oliver, Smith etc).

Then goes on to talk about how the Oliver deal ****ed over Melbourne and how Freo have done similarly with their ruck deals (two x $900k long term).

He uses that a lot, and it's almost always followed by a criticism.

Reminds me of the classic Ricky Bobby "With all due respect" followed by the most disrespectful thing you've ever heard.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Lol Cornes this morning saying:

"It's not a criticism, but Geelong are the hardest club to deal with in terms of getting fair value for a player"

Then goes on to say the challenge will be how do they pay all these blokes (Oliver, Smith etc).

Then goes on to talk about how the Oliver deal ****ed over Melbourne and how Freo have done similarly with their ruck deals (two x $900k long term).

I remember Cornes this time last season saying the same thing. He was whining and sooking big time about the Cats not letting Esava go for peanuts.

Even some of his own nuffie listeners were calling him out for his obsession with geelong.

 

[Grimoz]

Everyone gets hung up on teams being hard to deal with in trades.

News flash, teams are dealing with their direct opponents. If you aren't trying to **** over everyone, you are doing it wrong

I dont for a second believe we are hard to deal with, in fact i think quite the opposite, we always have the players best interest in mind when dealing, Cornes is just a salty campaigner because his team is shit

 

[Jumping Jack]

Everyone gets hung up on teams being hard to deal with in trades.

News flash, teams are dealing with their direct opponents. If you aren't trying to **** over everyone, you are doing it wrong

Yeah I think people are quick to overlook how the system works. Sometimes you negotiate and make an offer to a player at another club - and you miss the player - but still create pain for the club they're currently playing for. That's a win and is often overlooked.

Perfect example is the offer we threw at Charlie Curnow a few years ago. Carlton were forced to up their offer when extending Curnow's contract and some believe that was inflated by 10-15% simply off the back of what Geelong did. Geelong knew they were only a very small chance to get Curnow, but while he stayed at Carlton, Geelong knew full well that they'd created a problem for Carlton and chewed up cap space they couldn't use on other players.

Geelong on the other hand don't create situations where players actively seek to leave. And our record of not paying inflated figures for our very good players is evidence of that. Don't overlook how massive an advantage that is for Geelong compared to other clubs.

Again, just another example of how we do it better than everyone else. List management and tightly controlling cap space is the biggest thing in AFL. The key is to build your list strategically - retain the right players - and create a culture where other players want to join you. If you do that is not over paying so that when the right players are available you can pounce......just as we've done this week.

Nuffies simply trot out the line that "Geelong must not have the same cap as other clubs". The reality is we make it go further and we get players below what other clubs would be prepared to pay.

 

[moond0g]

It’s interesting, if you look back at our “ready-made” recruits in the past decade and divide them between sub-28 and 28+ years old you see a pretty clear pattern. I’d want extremely good justification to get anyone over 28 based on this evidence. The two successes had 5 Premiership medals between them!!

Sub-28

Rivers
Caddy
Clark
Stanley
Blease
Dangerfield
Henderson
Z.Smith
S.Selwood
Menegola
Black
Tuohy
Stewart
Abbott
Kelly
Crameri
Rohan
Dalhaus
Fort
Atkins
Cameron
Stengle
O.Henry
Bruhn
Bowes


28+

McIntosh
Jenkins
Steven
Higgins
Ablett
Smith
Ceglar

Found it:

Disregarding the relatively small sample of 28+yo for a moment, this comparison still depends on a few things (e.g., 'success' looks different for mature draftee on minimum wage than Cameron who cost 3 first rounders and $1mil a season).

But also hugely depends on where you are drawing the age line. e.g., Jeremy Cameron has been 28 or older in every single Geelong game he's played. So too was Jared Rivers. shouldn't they be in the 28+ group? Rohan also turned 28 in his first season with us. Assuming he plays in round 1, Clayton Oliver will be younger in his first game for us than all of these players were. If these players are in the 'older' group, then the success rate looks quite good, perhaps even better.
Edit: see you were talking about Martin not oliver, but the point still remains that a lot depends on relatively arbitrary thresholds when defining 'success' of older recruits.

 

[catempire]

Lol Cornes this morning saying:

"It's not a criticism, but Geelong are the hardest club to deal with in terms of getting fair value for a player"

What utter nonsense. What examples are there of this compared with what we’ve paid over the years for Cameron, Dangerfield, Tuohy, Henderson etc.

 

[catempire]

Disregarding the relatively small sample of 28+yo for a moment, this comparison still depends on a few things (e.g., 'success' looks different for mature draftee on minimum wage than Cameron who cost 3 first rounders and $1mil a season).

But also hugely depends on where you are drawing the age line. e.g., Jeremy Cameron has been 28 or older in every single Geelong game he's played. So too was Jared Rivers. shouldn't they be in the 28+ group? Rohan also turned 28 in his first season with us. Assuming he plays in round 1, Clayton Oliver will be younger in his first game for us than all of these players were. If these players are in the 'older' group, then the success rate looks quite good, perhaps even better.

Sure, split the hairs. If there’s a better way of framing it go right ahead.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Given his behind the scenes puppet master role, I now understand why we've kept Rhys.on the list for so long

Much loved and much respected within the club.
A Quality human being.

 

[moond0g]

Sure, split the hairs. If there’s a better way of framing it go right ahead.

I guess the question is why you've decided on a somewhat arbitrary dichotomy, then put players that appear older than the threshold in the 'young' group to prove your point.

 

[Johanpetro]

Here’s a simple way to look at how Geelong manage their salary cap for idiots screaming “how are Geelong able to afford these players”.

Stengle and Holmes were apparently offered deals of around 1 million a year from other clubs. They’ve both left around 400-500k a year combined on the table. Let’s say Jack Henry

38

Jack Henry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

142.6

2star

D

8.6

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.1

3star

MG

142.6

3star

D

9.6

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.0

4star

is on unders of around 600-650k which is just a guess (but he wouldnt be the only one) . Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

is getting 900k. Henry is better and could get something similar.

So between those three players there would be around 600-800k free that they could’ve got somewhere else. There’s your Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

money.

 

[Schmegg]

Out of the Scott Gillan article today, kinda get annoyed when blokes I hope to be something are the ones who’s name ends up on top of the list to move.

“It will most likely become a fire sale given the Cats will use their first-round selection (around No. 20) to secure Smith so the Demons won’t be getting a high draft pick, instead possibly a package of picks and a young talented fringe player such as Mitch Knevitt.”

I think Knevitt can be something, he’s not Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

27

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

though at this stage.

 

[OzeSparky]

“I wish I lived on a farm, would have been sick, I love the farm,” Oliver said on an Unlaced podcast episode released this week.

Buy the man a farm.

 

[FishGutz]

I hope with SDK you are correct. My mail on Oliver is absolutely accurate but have (in this case fortunately) a bit less confidence in who I received the SDK mail from. Having said that it’s only one step from someone who would know so….

Yeah, I’m pretty confident as he’s the one who told me about Smith amping up just before news broke. About Davies just before news broke. And most importantly he stuck with the fact we were heavily into Oliver this entire time and never swayed on that. Along with Waterman and a couple of others as well. His biggest one being the aforementioned Oliver, when every journalist was making it seem dead in the water he kept persisting it was more alive than ever. Hasn’t got one wrong yet, which has also made me look on the money obviously but I’m just relaying what I’m told. So, when it comes to SDK and him not hearing about it. I’ll assume it doesn’t exist. Let’s just hope it’s not something being kept extremely hush that even he’s not hearing.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Schmegg]

Here’s a simple way to look at how Geelong manage their salary cap for idiots screaming “how are Geelong able to afford these players”.

Stengle and Holmes were apparently offered deals of around 1 million a year from other clubs. They’ve both left around 400-500k a year combined on the table. Let’s say Jack Henry is on unders of around 600-650k which is just a guess (but he wouldnt be the only one) . Josh Battle is getting 900k. Henry is better and could get something similar.

So between those three players there would be around 600-800k free that they could’ve got somewhere else. There’s your Bailey Smith money.

We don’t have any stupid Max King or Mack Andrew 6-7 year extensions for millions, Geelong as a club doesn’t do stupid like that.

 

[catempire]

I guess the question is why you've decided on a somewhat arbitrary dichotomy, then put players that appear older than the threshold in the 'young' group to prove your point.

You can keep guessing then.

 

[Commando]

I tell everyone at work (in Melbourne) that we give all these players APCO service stations...just for the melts

That's why you see so many if you drive around Geelong area!

 

[catempire]

“I wish I lived on a farm, would have been sick, I love the farm,” Oliver said on an Unlaced podcast episode released this week.

Buy the man a farm.

I know where a good country lad could get a farm. There is good precedent.

#freshsurfcoastair

 

[Zouz Kitty]

Lol Cornes this morning saying:

"It's not a criticism, but Geelong are the hardest club to deal with in terms of getting fair value for a player"

Then goes on to say the challenge will be how do they pay all these blokes (Oliver, Smith etc).

Then goes on to talk about how the Oliver deal ****ed over Melbourne and how Freo have done similarly with their ruck deals (two x $900k long term).

What is Cornes’ issue with Geelong?

We’re living rent free in his head

 

[catman2006]

“I wish I lived on a farm, would have been sick, I love the farm,” Oliver said on an Unlaced podcast episode released this week.

Buy the man a farm.

I like it, we have moved up from buying homes to farms now for players !!!

 

[Gavin Excell]

What is Cornes’ issue with Geelong?

We’re living rent free in his head

The thing is with Cornes he has been consistently strong against bumper 6+ year contracts, which is something we never do