Rumour GFC 2024 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 2

[cats_09]

Ask and we'll try our best to assist - so here's 2024 Provisional AFL Draft Order

As normal, would like to acknowledge & thank Lore for creating this, keeping it up to date and making it available for all users on BF to use and keep track of the picks ahead of the upcoming draft





I'll also sticky this post to ensure it's easily accessible for discussion of our hypothetical trader

 

[CatsDoItBetter]

Despite all the challenges for him and the demons Oliver has still had a decent season just not at his normal standards. He’s still found plenty of the ball only Holmes has had more disposals than him at Geelong.
He seems to have started to turn a lot of things around for himself. At the cats, demons or elsewhere could easily see him working his way back to a more consistent afl player next year.

 

[Mr Meow]

Mr Meow, not so if Clayton Oliver could produce the best version of himself if he joined the Cats, which understandably for most of us would be highly questionable. But Mr Meow, if there is 'much truth' in the rumours of the Cats 'going hard' for Oliver then I'm 100% for it, coz there must be a highly justifiable reason as to why that is the case with Wellsy's and Mackie's track record in recent times and over the journey suggesting they should have our full backing and blessing as they must know a lot more to this story than we could possibly know from the outside looking in.

I've watched a lot of Melbourne this year.

Oliver has been awful. It is rare for a 27 year old playing awful football to turn it around. Not impossible, but rare.

His weakness has always been his ball use and speed/agility but that was mitigated by being able to shovel it out to an absolute jet in Petracca. Plus his ball winning ability for a few years was so incredible that it didn't matter.

He isn't like Dangerfield where he has a few shanks a game balanced out by a number of really line breaking or decisive disposals. Dangerfield is still a score involvement machine when he's on the field. Oliver is a turnover merchant whose best 10 disposals a game are not very damaging, let alone the worst 10.

So those are my reservations on Oliver. Even getting back to his best, his weaknesses are not ones you would want to build a 2025-2028 midfield around. If he was playing with a Rozee/Gulden/Daicos type player, maybe.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Did the Dees know Oliver has some off field issues going on before giving him that massive contract.

Surely they must not have… or it hasn’t kicked off yet because how you’d give someone a contract that ridiculous with known issues would be insane.

I guess form and winning masks many things.

I get the sense that comfort and contempt in his life has brought back old habits that were buried while he was hungry and goal oriented.

Now he has his flag, his huge contract… I feel the demons are surfacing with his feelings of contempt.

Much similar to how a rockstar gets on the drugs and spirals down once his got nothing more to achieve

 

[Lingsface]

Please don’t let smith be our highest paid player, I just don’t see it in him to be elite.

 

[Mr Meow]

Despite all the challenges for him and the demons Oliver has still had a decent season just not at his normal standards. He’s still found plenty of the ball only Holmes has had more disposals than him at Geelong.
He seems to have started to turn a lot of things around for himself. At the cats, demons or elsewhere could easily see him working his way back to a more consistent afl player next year.

We really have different definitions of a decent season.

Oliver is a 27 year old full time midfielder with 10 coaches votes, featuring in those votes in just 2 games.

4.0 score involvements per game - 12 Cats average more this season.

It's never good if you have more clangers than score involvements, as is the case for Clayton in 2024.

He has had absolutely no defensive game and been burned time and time again at stoppage. There aren't stats for it but he's been a liability in that sense, with zero hurt factor from his own disposals.

 

[Catman]

Another Ben McKay.

The more I watch him, the more I scratch my head as to why Essendon paid as much as they did.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Please don’t let smith be our highest paid player, I just don’t see it in him to be elite.

At one point he was looking like being on the verge of one of the games best players.

Luke bevo destroyed him playing him as a HF along with some health problems.

Depression is quite different to other issues. It is something that is curable and fixable. We are the perfect environment to nurture it.

ACL’s on the other hand can really depend on the player and his commitment to rehab, how successful the surgery was, how well the ligament takes and heals to the bone, the general conditioning of the player as a whole etc and a lot more…

So we will see how that plays out.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Please don’t let smith be our highest paid player, I just don’t see it in him to be elite.

I doubt he ends up being our highest paid

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Look, I feel like some people in here have lived a sheltered life and/or forgotten what it’s like to be young and involved in a club.

He’s dedicated his whole life to being the best he can be. And he was for a period the best player in the AFL. This isn’t a handy guy we are talking about, this is the best of the best. You don’t lose talent. You see it in sports across the globe, once a player mentally checks out playing for a club:/himself and is heart isn’t in it, they drop away. And being 10-20% off leaves you behind the pack.

He’s still young. He doesn’t have any degenerative injuries. He hasn’t r*ped or killed anybody. His story arc doesn’t make him a villain. You have to remember many of these professionals give away a part of their youth that their close mates have to get their body in peak condition. No late nights drinking etc. while they train by themselves.

So, when his personal life turned sour, he had a partner who was older than him who would’ve given him guidance and stability and when she left, he regressed. He started partying with guys who didn’t have his best interest at heart. They wanted to party with Clarry the now celeb. He let himself down. It was unprofessional and immature but it’s not diabolical.

Now, Melbourne, instead of embracing seemed to chastise him. And it was public and they didn’t protect their best asset. Things are sour, there are divisions all across Melbourne. Petracca who seems like the perfect character for a club wants to leave. Viney who is “heart and soul”, wants to leave. It’s a bad, bad environment where good people and winners don’t want to be.

Compare this to Geelong, who recently had a player, pass out in public and receive medical attention. How did they protect the player? They let him play the next week and filled him with encouragement. Told the media he will be fine and that he’s an adult and all the other players put their arms around him.

Oliver felt alienated and obviously has an attitude where he thought f these guys, I’ve given you my best to the point we won a premiership. I cbf putting in the work. Is that the wrong attitude? For sure. But it shows he’s human and his character flaws.

I know from personal experience being in a football club with a toxic environment makes you lose the passion for the game. These aren’t excuses, this is just reality.

And I believe - and I know Geelong believe - they are a club that can offer him the support he needs and the foundation to allow him to hit his best again. And as someone else said, he’s nowhere near as far off as people are making out. It’s 10-20% off the mark physically. A gap which is easily bridged over one hard dedicated preseason, which for the entirety of his football career with the exception of just one season he’s been up to. A vast majority of his effort issues etc. is coming from his mental game, where he’s checked out.

Surely even the most sheltered of us in here can relate to that last point. Where we have checked out at work, checked out in a relationship or even checked out on TV show that was once good but now turned to shit and we suddenly find ourselves on bigfooty doomscrolling instead of paying attention to a storyline going nowhere.

I’m backing him in to hit is his best again but I believe he has to leave Melbourne to do it. And what better place for a country boy than a country club like Geelong? Gives him a chance to get out the bubble of Melbourne and back to his roots. And what better club than Geelong? Put aside how he’s been this year and just imagine looking at him at Geelong through the lens of him at his absolute best for us. It’s beyond formidable, it’s downright scary. Him extracting the footy to Danger and Smith on the burst is what wet dreams are made of. Back the club in, they get it right much, much more often than not. Exciting times ahead.



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FishGutz: have no idea with the truth behind the story of the Cats chasing Clayton Oliver but regardless, I just wanna say that your post and comments above was one of the best and mature reads I've had on BigFooty, you speak with much common sense and wisdom with regards to life realities and the many complexities, vulnerabilities and complications that can go with it, congrats and much thanks.

 

[Warhorse]

Look, I feel like some people in here have lived a sheltered life and/or forgotten what it’s like to be young and involved in a club.

He’s dedicated his whole life to being the best he can be. And he was for a period the best player in the AFL. This isn’t a handy guy we are talking about, this is the best of the best. You don’t lose talent. You see it in sports across the globe, once a player mentally checks out playing for a club:/himself and is heart isn’t in it, they drop away. And being 10-20% off leaves you behind the pack.

He’s still young. He doesn’t have any degenerative injuries. He hasn’t r*ped or killed anybody. His story arc doesn’t make him a villain. You have to remember many of these professionals give away a part of their youth that their close mates have to get their body in peak condition. No late nights drinking etc. while they train by themselves.

So, when his personal life turned sour, he had a partner who was older than him who would’ve given him guidance and stability and when she left, he regressed. He started partying with guys who didn’t have his best interest at heart. They wanted to party with Clarry the now celeb. He let himself down. It was unprofessional and immature but it’s not diabolical.

Now, Melbourne, instead of embracing seemed to chastise him. And it was public and they didn’t protect their best asset. Things are sour, there are divisions all across Melbourne. Petracca who seems like the perfect character for a club wants to leave. Viney who is “heart and soul”, wants to leave. It’s a bad, bad environment where good people and winners don’t want to be.

Compare this to Geelong, who recently had a player, pass out in public and receive medical attention. How did they protect the player? They let him play the next week and filled him with encouragement. Told the media he will be fine and that he’s an adult and all the other players put their arms around him.

Oliver felt alienated and obviously has an attitude where he thought f these guys, I’ve given you my best to the point we won a premiership. I cbf putting in the work. Is that the wrong attitude? For sure. But it shows he’s human and his character flaws.

I know from personal experience being in a football club with a toxic environment makes you lose the passion for the game. These aren’t excuses, this is just reality.

And I believe - and I know Geelong believe - they are a club that can offer him the support he needs and the foundation to allow him to hit his best again. And as someone else said, he’s nowhere near as far off as people are making out. It’s 10-20% off the mark physically. A gap which is easily bridged over one hard dedicated preseason, which for the entirety of his football career with the exception of just one season he’s been up to. A vast majority of his effort issues etc. is coming from his mental game, where he’s checked out.

Surely even the most sheltered of us in here can relate to that last point. Where we have checked out at work, checked out in a relationship or even checked out on TV show that was once good but now turned to shit and we suddenly find ourselves on bigfooty doomscrolling instead of paying attention to a storyline going nowhere.

I’m backing him in to hit is his best again but I believe he has to leave Melbourne to do it. And what better place for a country boy than a country club like Geelong? Gives him a chance to get out the bubble of Melbourne and back to his roots. And what better club than Geelong? Put aside how he’s been this year and just imagine looking at him at Geelong through the lens of him at his absolute best for us. It’s beyond formidable, it’s downright scary. Him extracting the footy to Danger and Smith on the burst is what wet dreams are made of. Back the club in, they get it right much, much more often than not. Exciting times ahead.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

That's a very rainbowy and unicorny version of what I have heard

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I've watched a lot of Melbourne this year.

Oliver has been awful. It is rare for a 27 year old playing awful football to turn it around. Not impossible, but rare.

His weakness has always been his ball use and speed/agility but that was mitigated by being able to shovel it out to an absolute jet in Petracca. Plus his ball winning ability for a few years was so incredible that it didn't matter.

He isn't like Dangerfield where he has a few shanks a game balanced out by a number of really line breaking or decisive disposals. Dangerfield is still a score involvement machine when he's on the field. Oliver is a turnover merchant whose best 10 disposals a game are not very damaging, let alone the worst 10.

So those are my reservations on Oliver. Even getting back to his best, his weaknesses are not ones you would want to build a 2025-2028 midfield around. If he was playing with a Rozee/Gulden/Daicos type player, maybe.

If he was winning the ball for us a million times a game then I do think we'd have the advantage of good users of the footy around him. Dempsey, Holmes, Humphries, even Bruhn when not under too much pressure.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The more I watch him, the more I scratch my head as to why Essendon paid as much as they did.

It’s essendon.

They would pay 1,000,000 for mater the tow truck if they thought it sold memberships.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

I've watched a lot of Melbourne this year.

Oliver has been awful. It is rare for a 27 year old playing awful football to turn it around. Not impossible, but rare.

His weakness has always been his ball use and speed/agility but that was mitigated by being able to shovel it out to an absolute jet in Petracca. Plus his ball winning ability for a few years was so incredible that it didn't matter.

He isn't like Dangerfield where he has a few shanks a game balanced out by a number of really line breaking or decisive disposals. Dangerfield is still a score involvement machine when he's on the field. Oliver is a turnover merchant whose best 10 disposals a game are not very damaging, let alone the worst 10.

So those are my reservations on Oliver. Even getting back to his best, his weaknesses are not ones you would want to build a 2025-2028 midfield around. If he was playing with a Rozee/Gulden/Daicos type player, maybe.

Agree with pretty much all said Mr Meow but it's got to the stage with me that I'm fully on board with whatever direction Wellsy, Mackie & co want to go, their record in recent times have been off the charts but hey, they may not be into Oliver at all but whoever they are, I'm a believer until proven otherwise.

 

[FishGutz]

Fantastic post. It's really not for us fans / members to be concerned about salary cap, how much it would cost in terms of trade capital (picks, players) etc.

It's up to us to back in and support a club that for the most part, has made great, timely decisions over the bets part of the last two decades..they have the 'runs on the board'. I can only imagine the uproar when we traded out Moloney and two first rounders (one secured from Moloney trade) to the tigers..

Have the club got it wrong sometimes? Of course, naturally they have. But for the most part this club makes smart decisions at the right time that have yielded great outcomes (4 flags and numerous other finals appearacnes).

Even with Smith...is there risk, of course there is. But the body of evidence we have to-date confirms he is a gun proven AFL player - and a durable one at that. I don't believe we get a 'gun' player at a significantly reduced rate based on what the evidence says is just a one-off major injury (one ACL). Could he turn into the next Dan Menzel? Of course he could, but right now there is no evidence to support that. There are not multiple ACL's, and lets be honest, his off field stuff and mental health stuff is not so bad that it entitles us to a big discount..

We can't get guns cheap and use that as a reason to suit our narrative to get someone significantly under market value. The picks we trade the Dogs could be absolute duds (see Brad Ottens trade and many others).

Picks are overrated - you trade them for proven, gun players. How may picks have we butchered in the teens - too many to remember.. A mid to late first rounder is not even close to Smith's value.

Oliver is obviously a significant and higher-risk than Smith, but for a player like that you do due dilligence and all your checks and balances....risk is higher than Smith, but you still investigate a player that could deliver big time. I will be backing in an elite organisation that gets it right more often than not.

Sometimes I feel we want gun players but we only "want a gun player but want 'em cheap". It rarely eventuates. You pay for proven quality over the unknown (draft picks).

I trust the club completely...we're risk takers, but very calculated ones at that..

100% agree with this. And to further your point, our four biggest trades in the last two decades have been resounding wins:

Jezza which the media went hard at because of 3xFR picks.
Tim Kelly being traded away, we won that simply because of what we did with those picks… turned them into a known commodity - Jezza.
Ottens. Enough said.
And as a bonus you can add in the Bowes deal, which we were able to pull off because of the way we manage our salary cap.




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[FishGutz]

I've watched a lot of Melbourne this year.

Oliver has been awful. It is rare for a 27 year old playing awful football to turn it around. Not impossible, but rare.

His weakness has always been his ball use and speed/agility but that was mitigated by being able to shovel it out to an absolute jet in Petracca. Plus his ball winning ability for a few years was so incredible that it didn't matter.

He isn't like Dangerfield where he has a few shanks a game balanced out by a number of really line breaking or decisive disposals. Dangerfield is still a score involvement machine when he's on the field. Oliver is a turnover merchant whose best 10 disposals a game are not very damaging, let alone the worst 10.

So those are my reservations on Oliver. Even getting back to his best, his weaknesses are not ones you would want to build a 2025-2028 midfield around. If he was playing with a Rozee/Gulden/Daicos type player, maybe.

He’s never played with a Rozee/Gulden/Daicos type player and he won a premiership. He instead played with a Petracca type player, see Dangerfield. And a Viney type player, see Bruhn. A Brayshaw type player, see Stewart (who is much better). Oh and instead of Rozee/Gulden/Daicos, we could give him Bailey Smith/Holmes/Dempsey. We are in a good position. Be happy.


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[Mr Meow]

If he was winning the ball for us a million times a game then I do think we'd have the advantage of good users of the footy around him. Dempsey, Holmes, Humphries, even Bruhn when not under too much pressure.

But he's no longer an accurate or damaging handballer either.

Oliver now specialises in missed or hospital handballs - failing that a dump kick that lacks penetration.

 

[Mr Meow]

He’s never played with a Rozee/Gulden/Daicos type player and he won a premiership. He instead played with a Petracca type player, see Dangerfield. And a Viney type player, see Bruhn. A Brayshaw type player, see Stewart (who is much better). Oh and instead of Rozee/Gulden/Daicos, we could give him Bailey Smith/Holmes/Dempsey. We are in a good position. Be happy.


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I've watched a lot of him at his best too.

He had that Rowell-type bulldozing quality and agility in tight. And he had that bulldozing effectiveness of a player like Serong currently. Although his disposal hurt factor and decision making was never amazing, it was several leagues above what we've seen the past two seasons.

Anyway maybe he can recover to something approaching an elite player. Me thinking Oliver isn't a wise recruitment has nothing to do with my mood. We're all allowed to express opinions and the reasoning behind them.

 

[Mr Meow]

Agree with pretty much all said Mr Meow but it's got to the stage with me that I'm fully on board with whatever direction Wellsy, Mackie & co want to go, their record in recent times have been off the charts but hey, they may not be into Oliver at all but whoever they are, I'm a believer until proven otherwise.

Yeah I'm not someone who melts over what our recruitment department decide is best. Merely offering my thoughts as an outsider mug who ultimately knows nothing, but hey it's BigFooty and that's the game.

 

[calder_daddy]

His conditioning was a massive knock on him during his pre draft year. He had talked quite openly about it. He basically rocketed up the draft boards when he finally got himself in good shape.

It is not a one off.

So a kid who didn’t take his footy serious when he was 17 and has one off the rails post season and you’re going to write him off.
May as well not even be a competition if that’s the way you feel.
Imagine using a 17 years olds behavior against them.
We all made mistakes back then and if you said you didn’t then sir you are a liar

 

[calder_daddy]

Oliver wants to come to Geelong (well that was the case a few months ago) not sure whether we want him or not, or if we could workout a trade that suits Melbourne.

I'd definitely take him under the right circumstances. Melbourne's a shitshow and he has no respect for them so like a naughty kid in the classroom, he's gone rogue. He wants to be at Geelong and will have more respect for our leaders. I don't think it will happen though, there's just isn't a way for both clubs to be satisfied.

Good, he would currently be in our top 2/3 midfielders even at his current way

lol you’ve really got it out against the young fella don’t you

Just another middle aged man who obviously shit rainbows as a young man

 

[calder_daddy]

Did the Dees know Oliver has some off field issues going on before giving him that massive contract.

Surely they must not have… or it hasn’t kicked off yet because how you’d give someone a contract that ridiculous with known issues would be insane.

I guess form and winning masks many things.

I dare say it was something that hadn’t kicked off yet.
Think about it.
Everything Oliver did wrong and got found out by with videos and photos was in a 3 month period. Not after one post season then some from another.
He was off the rail significantly, he got back to playing AFL but his post season into pre season ruined his fitness and we all know the issues with any player who doesn’t do a pre season.
They all struggle.
I want him, I want him badly.
I only want him if his contract is slightly paid by Melbourne.

 

[Gazza Greatness]

Yeah I'm not someone who melts over what our recruitment department decide is best. Merely offering my thoughts as an outsider mug who ultimately knows nothing, but hey it's BigFooty and that's the game.

Fair enough Mr Meow, that's why we have a footy forum to begin with, to form opinions of which I've shared quite a few myself over the journey. Perhaps it's been more to with agreeing with much of what we've done, especially in recent times with Mackie's proving a wise understudy for Wellsy and by the sounds of it we have a formable and knowledgeable Gryan Miers in waiting, once he retires. But to be sure Mackie and Wellsy combined are extremely savvy and creative pair with their targeting and decision making worthy of note.

The only thing I don't know when making opinions, is what goes behind the scenes in regards to possible targets but as far as on-ballers, I've had a enormous opinion of Serong and Young for Freo for sometime, even with Young early, when he was on the half-back flank, that kid was always going to be a gun but that bird is well and truly flown. But in essence with what you are saying, if we can snag a younger somewhat unexposed kid who's going to be a gun then that's the way to go. Bruhn's still got a way to go and he won't be as good as Sarong or Young but he still was a great get for our long term future, so if we can continue to go down that path if availability awaits us, then I'm all for it, cheers Richard!

 

[Gunf]

Yeah not sure I was aware tbh. Clearly helps standing next to a superstar every week, which he won’t have next year.

Hey hey i won't have you bad mouthing Frosty like that

He is a generational spud of the highest order

 

[cats_09]

Anyone want to log in to the upcoming members forum and see if they can provide any clarity on our interest or lack of in Oliver?

We're excited to invite you to our second Member Forum of 2024, scheduled for next Thursday 22 August at 6pm.

In this special edition of the Member Forum, senior club representatives will present proposed changes to the constitution for consideration ahead of the AGM to be held in December. You will also have the opportunity to hear directly from Geelong Cats AFLW players ahead of our season opener against Melbourne and receive an update from AFL coaching staff.

The Member Forum will be accessible via a link that we'll share next Thursday. It's expected to last about one hour, during which you'll have the chance to participate by asking questions through the online chat function.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

But he's no longer an accurate or damaging handballer either.

Oliver now specialises in missed or hospital handballs - failing that a dump kick that lacks penetration.

Yeah my "if" did a bit of heavy lifting, but he was once, maybe again?

Still, the risks with it are a bit out of control