Rumour GFC 2024 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 2

[cats_09]

Ask and we'll try our best to assist - so here's 2024 Provisional AFL Draft Order

As normal, would like to acknowledge & thank Lore for creating this, keeping it up to date and making it available for all users on BF to use and keep track of the picks ahead of the upcoming draft





I'll also sticky this post to ensure it's easily accessible for discussion of our hypothetical trader

 

[FootyLad0]

It's fine to just not post in here when it's boring, too. Or even have a Turbo nap.

Breaking news

I just had a Turbo Nap

 

[Pure_Ownage]

If Smith is seen as a foregone conclusion then there's nothing to really talk about unfortunately.

Can't see us bringing in anything that really moves the needle outside of him, except for some underappreciated talent that we might be able to workshop into quality players.

Could be exciting, but doesn't warrant pages upon pages of discussion.

Depends on what you mean. We wont get smith and anyone else that costs a lot but most ruck trades are cheap (think r3) so we could absolutely do that and smith.

 

[foxdog50]

Pure_Ownage What's your thoughts? Or would you rather go someone older and mature?

Why Jenkins expects rival clubs to come for “the most unlucky player in the AFL” this off-season

“He’s an AFL ruckman from what I’ve seen.”

www.sen.com.au

 

[Catman]

Pure_Ownage What's your thoughts? Or would you rather go someone older and mature?

Why Jenkins expects rival clubs to come for “the most unlucky player in the AFL” this off-season

“He’s an AFL ruckman from what I’ve seen.”

www.sen.com.au

Would he want to come and continue to be a backup, should Conway get his body right?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Pure_Ownage What's your thoughts? Or would you rather go someone older and mature?

Why Jenkins expects rival clubs to come for “the most unlucky player in the AFL” this off-season

“He’s an AFL ruckman from what I’ve seen.”

www.sen.com.au

He was in that shortlist i posted earlier in the year. Hes hard to judge bc he hasnt played much afl this year but has been dominant in the vfl.
Hes at least an athletic ruck the type we prefer more than the dinosaur type. I didnt mind his game today-did some decent things against 2 very good rucks. Clearly could use a bit more body strength and improving his marking but theres a bit to work with. I would target him but i wouldnt overpay in picks and ess are notoriously difficult traders (although we did trade well with them for caddy last year) so thats the only bit that would dissuade me.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Would he want to come and continue to be a backup, should Conway get his body right?

Thats a big IF. He would have a head start to get the afl ruck spot in 2025 as conway doesnt have the tank yet-and he should back himself. Hes also probably athletic enough to play as a 2nd ruck in a 2 ruck setup (if he works on his craft).

 

[Footy Smarts]

People need to be realistic about what any recruited ruck could do.

You want to solve our ruck issues next season? Well the player better be 23+ now and have 20+ AFL games under their belt. Cause otherwise you're dreaming to think they'll be good straight off the bat next year. Bryan, Reidy, Moyle, etc might be good players eventually but thinking they're the solution next year is delusional.

For mine we have one guy who has shown the ability to really impact games in the ruck this year. He'll be 24 next season and has over 60 games under his belt now. He also might be the best ground level player over 200cm in the league. If we develop SDK in the ruck there's every chance he could explode next year. That also shifts the list management perspective where our ruck stocks are much more robust but we might need to consider tall defenders.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

People need to be realistic about what any recruited ruck could do.

You want to solve our ruck issues next season? Well the player better be 23+ now and have 20+ AFL games under their belt. Cause otherwise you're dreaming to think they'll be good straight off the bat next year. Bryan, Reidy, Moyle, etc might be good players eventually but thinking they're the solution next year is delusional.

For mine we have one guy who has shown the ability to really impact games in the ruck this year. He'll be 24 next season and has over 60 games under his belt now. He also might be the best ground level player over 200cm in the league. If we develop SDK in the ruck there's every chance he could explode next year. That also shifts the list management perspective where our ruck stocks are much more robust but we might need to consider tall defenders.

No one is saying they are going to be dominating straight off the bat next year. But they dont have to be all they have to be is more ready and available (the best ability is availability) than conway and edwards will be next year, which they easily will as its a low bar. From there we see how it develops.

On sdk im not against him being developed as a ruck however to do that they will need to change his training to put some more bulk strength on him etc, and im not sure whether that would adversely affect his knee issue.
But if we are going to use sdk as the no1 ruck then we absolutely need to bring in another kpd in the offseason as kolo and henry is absolutely not enough for 2025 (considering osullivan is 2-3 years off). So who we recruit in the offseason will show our hand a bit re what we plan to do.

 

[Lana]

*

People need to be realistic about what any recruited ruck could do.

You want to solve our ruck issues next season? Well the player better be 23+ now and have 20+ AFL games under their belt. Cause otherwise you're dreaming to think they'll be good straight off the bat next year. Bryan, Reidy, Moyle, etc might be good players eventually but thinking they're the solution next year is delusional.

For mine we have one guy who has shown the ability to really impact games in the ruck this year. He'll be 24 next season and has over 60 games under his belt now. He also might be the best ground level player over 200cm in the league. If we develop SDK in the ruck there's every chance he could explode next year. That also shifts the list management perspective where our ruck stocks are much more robust but we might need to consider tall defenders.

We are so weak in the ruck that getting an average ruck would be a big step up. I'd want us to get someone durable who isn't a hitout specialist. When you bring in these 22 year old ruckmen who have played predominantly in the VFL it feels a like a bit of a gamble. We paid more then most for Stanley, I think most clubs that do these types of trades do it to fill a real need and tend to do quite well

SDK is a good emergency option, but I don't think he has the build to play the role a full season, he'd break down.
I'm not considering Conway an option until he gets through a season in one piece

 

[Pure_Ownage]

*


We are so weak in the ruck that getting an average ruck would be a big step up. I'd want us to get someone durable who isn't a hitout specialist. When you bring in these 22 year old ruckmen who have played predominantly in the VFL it feels a like a bit of a gamble. We paid more then most for Stanley, I think most clubs that do these types of trades do it to fill a real need and tend to do quite well

SDK is a good emergency option, but I don't think he has the build to play the role a full season, he'd break down.
I'm not considering Conway an option until he gets through a season in one piece

I dont disagree with that.
Assuming we need to trade in someone (which i think we do) and they arent their clubs no1 ruck, aged about 22 to 27, will cost less than a top 25 pick. From the names floated around here (or other options) who would be your 1st and choice?

 

[Footy Smarts]

We are so weak in the ruck that getting an average ruck would be a big step up.

The problem is there are very few average rucks out there. Look at Ivan Soldo who is probably a top 30 ruck in the league and cost a bit getting dropped for Jordan Sweet who is very average.

If you bring in a gun state league player or 22-24 year old from another club with under 10 games experience they're going to get taught lesson after lesson for the first season at least.

If Conway's body is cooked or there's one we really rate then go for it but if they're remotely competitive next year it'll be a miracle.

I'd want us to get someone durable who isn't a hitout specialist

Who? There aren't many rucks out there. I just looked at the 200cm+ players out there with 20+ games who are 23+ and it is bloody slim pickings. Maybe Ladhams but Sydney were preferring a completely cooked Hickey over him last year.

SDK is a good emergency option, but I don't think he has the build to play the role a full season, he'd break down.
I'm not considering Conway an option until he gets through a season in one piece

His build is similar to English who has rarely missed games. I'm actually impressed with his ability to protect himself in ruck contests and still compete. I don't think you really want him to bulk up either just get a bit stronger through maturity. Ideally you'd want some games into Conway anyway so the plan isn't to flog him endlessly.

 

[Lana]

I dont disagree with that.
Assuming we need to trade in someone (which i think we do) and they arent their clubs no1 ruck, aged about 22 to 27, will cost less than a top 25 pick. From the names floated around here (or other options) who would be your 1st and choice?

I haven't watched enough non-geelong 2nd tier football to a have a first choice. A quick glance over the stats didn't bring much to my attention, Conway's numbers (from a small sample) look as good as any. Just because we want to bring someone in doesn't mean there is. Looking at the AFL cohort, as a group it feel is very old and very weak. Far cry from what it was post the sub rule where it seemed each club had 2-3 solid options on their list. Clubs just didn't draft them for a decade. I think the change to the number of years a club can keep a player on the rookie list could help with this change this. Clubs will be more willing to park a developing ruckmen on their list knowing they don't have to promote an unready 22 year old and pay them higher than base wage.

Footy Smarts has laid out an apt description of the situation. It might be a sellers market, a couple of years back the market was picked clean. Like last year and the KPD market. How many players do you think fit the bill in the first place?

The VFL also seems bare (A lot of them got demolished by a cooked Ceglar last year), I'm left to wonder if the removal of the VFL development league has had an effect on this.

 

[And_ROOS]

Would he want to come and continue to be a backup, should Conway get his body right?

I think right now its on Conway to get his body right and get a body of work that consists of more than playing a handful of games before breaking down.

If Bryan wants to come to Geelong get him. Conway could be special, Conway could also be a Nakia Cockatoo and never get his body right.

 

[cats_09]

Random things you see on the internet...

 

[MacStradbroke]

The problem is there are very few average rucks out there. Look at Ivan Soldo who is probably a top 30 ruck in the league and cost a bit getting dropped for Jordan Sweet who is very average.

If you bring in a gun state league player or 22-24 year old from another club with under 10 games experience they're going to get taught lesson after lesson for the first season at least.

If Conway's body is cooked or there's one we really rate then go for it but if they're remotely competitive next year it'll be a miracle.



Who? There aren't many rucks out there. I just looked at the 200cm+ players out there with 20+ games who are 23+ and it is bloody slim pickings. Maybe Ladhams but Sydney were preferring a completely cooked Hickey over him last year.



His build is similar to English who has rarely missed games. I'm actually impressed with his ability to protect himself in ruck contests and still compete. I don't think you really want him to bulk up either just get a bit stronger through maturity. Ideally you'd want some games into Conway anyway so the plan isn't to flog him endlessly.

Blicavs has been a fantastic weapon around the ball that other teams have tried to emulate without even coming close, but, does his career get an extra year or two if he returns down back? I like the idea, because I love SDK around the ball. His hands in close are elite for someone his height. He’s more durable than he appears too.

 

[MacStradbroke]

Random things you see on the internet...

Who was our last legit dirty mullet?

 

[Lana]

Random things you see on the internet...

 

[Pure_Ownage]

The problem is there are very few average rucks out there. Look at Ivan Soldo who is probably a top 30 ruck in the league and cost a bit getting dropped for Jordan Sweet who is very average.

If you bring in a gun state league player or 22-24 year old from another club with under 10 games experience they're going to get taught lesson after lesson for the first season at least.

If Conway's body is cooked or there's one we really rate then go for it but if they're remotely competitive next year it'll be a miracle.



Who? There aren't many rucks out there. I just looked at the 200cm+ players out there with 20+ games who are 23+ and it is bloody slim pickings. Maybe Ladhams but Sydney were preferring a completely cooked Hickey over him last year.



His build is similar to English who has rarely missed games. I'm actually impressed with his ability to protect himself in ruck contests and still compete. I don't think you really want him to bulk up either just get a bit stronger through maturity. Ideally you'd want some games into Conway anyway so the plan isn't to flog him endlessly.

Soldo is a bad example because port got desperate and overpaid (even then soldo looked ok prior to injury). I could give you a list of fringe rucks who were traded for picks outside the first 2 rounds who went on to be very good. So it does happen.

On the latter the list isnt huge but theres options (if youre saying 23 20 games and ruck size). Ladhams williams flynn pittonet sweet reeves (fullarton technically also meets the criteria though im not enamoured with him, this list excludes old guys like lobb cox campbell etc) just off the top of my head.
I agree its not a star level list but it shows theres options.
Also theres other guys who have had less than 20 games because they are stuck in a queue but but who are physically much more ready to go than what we have.

 

[And_ROOS]

Random things you see on the internet...

Ahh yes, all those stats to back that up as well.
Top 3 players of all time are typically seen as Matthews (no mullet), Ablett Snr (mullet), Carey (mullet).

Best forwards? Lockett (mullet), Dunstall (mullet), Brereton (mullet).

Who was our last legit dirty mullet?

Riccardi or Hocking perhaps.

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

+1 I like SDK as our new ruck, not just for the initial tap but for the follow up

Conway doesn't like like he'll be durable enough at this stage

But might mean grabbing a new backman. Bergman ?

 

[Gee Class Loco]

FWIW My spy tells me the Bellbrae property settles in October 2024.
Bailey has done well.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

FWIW My spy tells me the Bellbrae property settles in October 2024.
Bailey has done well.

That is one long settlement

 

[Bagelboy]

People mentioning Moyle for us, but he obviously isn't leaving GC. Unless they are talking about his brother who did well against Fort the other week. Not sure how big of a rig he is though.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Soldo is a bad example because port got desperate and overpaid (even then soldo looked ok prior to injury). I could give you a list of fringe rucks who were traded for picks outside the first 2 rounds who went on to be very good. So it does happen.

Soldo was dropped for Sweet before getting injured.

And there's no doubt you can trade in players who can become good rucks in time. But if they've had very little AFL exposure they're basically another Conway. They're highly likely to struggle until they get 20+ games under their belts so you're not solving anything for 2025.

Look at Meek who was turning 25 with 15 games under his belt when he arrived at Hawthorn. It still took a year of ordinary footy before he came good.

On the latter the list isnt huge but theres options (if youre saying 23 20 games and ruck size). Ladhams williams flynn pittonet sweet reeves (fullarton technically also meets the criteria though im not enamoured with him, this list excludes old guys like lobb cox campbell etc) just off the top of my head.
I agree its not a star level list but it shows theres options.
Also theres other guys who have had less than 20 games because they are stuck in a queue but but who are physically much more ready to go than what we have.

Pretty sure every one of those is contracted. As I said Ladhams might be gettable. I'd be surprised if the others are.

As for the guys stuck in a queue they're highly unlikely to jump from VFL to AFL seemlessly next year to solve our number 1 ruck issues. And are any of the ones you're thinking of even gettable and how much would they cost?

 

[moond0g]

It depends on the trade scenario:

- the Grundy trade still involved Collingwood agreeing to pay a portion of his salary for the remaining years of his contract. So neither Melbourne nor now Sydney, have taken over the full value of his remaining contract

- Bowes, Geelong took on his full remaining contract which is why the first round pick was thrown in

- Will Brodie trade from GC to Fremantle included, GC sending picks 19, 61, 69 & Brodie in exchange for future 2nd & 4th round picks with Fremantle paying the majority of Brodie's contract


IF Fremantle is going to pay a portion of Darcy's contract them, then it changes what's paid in terms of trade value - remembering though that Darcy isn't Grundy, and that should be reflected in trade value


BUT, IF Fremantle expects the new team to take over Darcy's full contact which is one they negotiated just 10 months ago - they'd have to pay the new team to take over the deal

I'd love all other 17 teams though to laugh at Fremantle and tell them to deal with the mess they've made of their salary cap themselves & that no one's going to bail them out. Really not sure why they signed him on such a long term contract & at the cost they did - didn't make sense back in December and makes even less sense now

Yeah fair points, the cost in terms of a trade will obviously depend on the portion of the contract each party pays. But while Darcy is not as good as Grundy, he's more similar than comparisons to Bowes or Brodie who were both not getting a game before they got traded.