List Mgmt. Glenn Luff - Has resigned as list manager

[Roosurgence]

He’s stealing a living because he’s created a niche for himself as a ‘stats based recruiter/list manager’.

It’s not baseball you fu**. It’s not a closed sport.

FRO.

We need to have a weekly segment of Glenn says……

Glenn says we don’t need any tall defenders because we have Matty McGuiness

Glenn says the AFL should scrap goals and behinds and award the 4 points based on SuperCoach scores.

Glenn says look at these dopey campaigners at North paying me to do a job that I don’t have a ****ing clue about.

 

[Dan]

There was optimism when it was announced that he was coming to our club.

Now 7 rounds in to 2022 he's getting the calls for him to get the sack.

Was this criticism there last year or even earlier this season?

I think it's too soon to pass judgement.

 

[koshari]

Isn't Luff responsible for drafting Comben, Perez, Phillips, Powell, Ford, JHF, Curtis, Edwards, Goater and Bergman. Even Mahony, Lazz and McGuiness aren't bad picks given what he was working with. He also recruited Corr, Bonar and even Atu was good tonight.

ok but other than Comben, Perez, Phillips, Powell, Ford, JHF, Curtis, Edwards, Goater and Bergman goes without saying what has he done for use lately?

 

[koshari]

now serious list management question, and hypothetical to boot,

if sonsie was still available when we took Paul anyone reckon we would have taken him? fwiw i reckon PC is looking like a steal at pick 35. especially given we were able to take goater and bergmen to potentially shore up our defense in time. even though we are left exposed from previous neglect or poor recruiting of nelson and durdan.

 

[ferball]

There was optimism when it was announced that he was coming to our club.

Now 7 rounds in to 2022 he's getting the calls for him to get the sack.

Was this criticism there last year or even earlier this season?

I think it's too soon to pass judgement.

people want him sacked because he didn't find some spud list clogging KPD to cover for us during a rebuild where losing games benefits us via the draft and we're better off targeting players who'll make the side better when they are available.

LOL

Its just a bandwagon reaction because people are upset we're shit and are looking for things, well people to blame.

Have a look at all of our list management since Luff came on board. Its pretty good over all. Especially compared to the previous decade. Top picks are obvious I guess but our second round drafting seems alot better than it was under the last lot. The list manager everyone wants sacked identified Paul Curtis, Eddie Ford and chose Tom Powell.

 

[ferball]

ok but other than Comben, Perez, Phillips, Powell, Ford, JHF, Curtis, Edwards, Goater and Bergman goes without saying what has he done for use lately?

Well I guess he traded Jed Anderson CCJ for a second rounder. Delist!!!!

 

[r_boy]

I'm not hugely critical of not getting another KPD backup, but in hindsight we should have worked harder to keep Tarrant.

The big one for me is the CCJ trade. A second round pick given up (now ~pick 20) and completely structuring our approach to this year's draft around Cooper Harvey, a mid-range talent who doesn't even play a position we need, just for sentiment.

That looks really, really, really awful when we're on the bottom of the ladder (continuously) and need to make the most of every opportunity in the draft.

 

[ferball]

now serious list management question, and hypothetical to boot,

if sonsie was still available when we took Paul anyone reckon we would have taken him? fwiw i reckon PC is looking like a steal at pick 35. especially given we were able to take goater and bergmen to potentially shore up our defense in time. even though we are left exposed from previous neglect or poor recruiting of nelson and durdan.

Durdin could just be a result of poor development too. He goes okay in the SANFL. I always got the feeling if he pushed himself harder he'd have been a better AFL player.

But to your question ... I hope we'd have taken Curtis. He probably should have gone in the range picks 15 - 25.

Obviously we knew the kids were talented and that is why we targeted them and we got him first so he must have been the priority.

 

[ferball]

I'm not hugely critical of not getting another KPD backup, but in hindsight we should have worked harder to keep Tarrant.

The big one for me is the CCJ trade. A second round pick given up (now ~pick 20) and completely structuring our approach to this year's draft around Cooper Harvey, a mid-range talent who doesn't even play a position we need, just for sentiment.

That looks really, really, really awful when we're on the bottom of the ladder (continuously) and need to make the most of every opportunity in the draft.

Harvey looks like a very good player so far this season tho.

 

[Kanga Glory]

Not sure what people are looking for?
He has been involved in drafting KIDS, who as they are kids cannot be judged for a few years if they are a bust . What do expect these kids to come out and dominate against more seasoned opponents. Have some perspective, at this rate the way people bag our players and if you were in the position then we would get rid of half the list each year.
Patience is a virtue

 

[DocSholl]

Drafting Durdin, EVW, Watson and Nielsen in a three-draft period (so they were all basically on the list being developed at the same time) and then copping the Maj accident did way more damage to our KPD stocks than some non-existent, readymade gun we passed up last trade period. Thankfully we also took McKay in that period.

 

[Themanbun]

people want him sacked because he didn't find some spud list clogging KPD to cover for us during a rebuild where losing games benefits us via the draft and we're better off targeting players who'll make the side better when they are available.

LOL

Its just a bandwagon reaction because people are upset we're shit and are looking for things, well people to blame.

Have a look at all of our list management since Luff came on board. Its pretty good over all. Especially compared to the previous decade. Top picks are obvious I guess but our second round drafting seems alot better than it was under the last lot. The list manager everyone wants sacked identified Paul Curtis, Eddie Ford and chose Tom Powell.

You keep saying this but it's his and Brady's job to create opportunities where they seem slim, not just identify whatever us bigfooty pundits could think of.

He and/or Rawlings could have worked to shore up our KPF and KPD depth. Whether it's moving down the order in 2019 or 2020 to take another key position player to develop, picking up someone like Lewis Young, targeting a contracted player for a trade, moving around the order differently to secure someone like a De Koning instead of 1 of Comben, Mahony and Perez, etc.

There are options and when those options seem slim it's the blokes who are paid by the club to create opportunities' role to do so.

Another example, clearly in courting Greenwood we wanted a contested beast for depth and back up. We could've been paid a second rounder to take Brodie but instead insisted on McPherson who wasn't even informed of being requested to be traded. That second rounder could've been used as currency to address another hole.

If we can target blokes like Atu, CCJ, Young, etc. then we can equally target KPPs.

List managers address holes in the list. They need to be creative in doing so. You're mocking people asking for some accountability when it was a hole that even bigfooty pundits could see, but which our list manager said wasn't a hole.

Currently all he and his boss have really done is load up on mids and mid-forwards to the detriment of other parts of the list. We're seeing the fruit of that neglect now.

We are now completely reliant on free agents or players wanting to come to us for our rebuild to succeed.

 

[Waussie]

T

You keep saying this but it's his and Brady's job to create opportunities where they seem slim, not just identify whatever us bigfooty pundits could think of.

He and/or Rawlings could have worked to shore up our KPF and KPD depth. Whether it's moving down the order in 2019 or 2020 to take another key position player to develop, picking up someone like Lewis Young, targeting a contracted player for a trade, moving around the order differently to secure someone like a De Koning instead of 1 of Comben, Mahony and Perez, etc.

There are options and when those options seem slim it's the blokes who are paid by the club to create opportunities' role to do so.

Another example, clearly in courting Greenwood we wanted a contested beast for depth and back up. We could've been paid a second rounder to take Brodie but instead insisted on McPherson who wasn't even informed of being requested to be traded. That second rounder could've been used as currency to address another hole.

If we can target blokes like Atu, CCJ, Young, etc. then we can equally target KPPs.

List managers address holes in the list. They need to be creative in doing so. You're mocking people asking for some accountability when it was a hole that even bigfooty pundits could see, but which our list manager said wasn't a hole.

Currently all he and his boss have really done is load up on mids and mid-forwards to the detriment of other parts of the list. We're seeing that fruit of that neglect now.

We are now completely reliant on free agents or players wanting to come to us for our rebuild to succeed.

THis

 

[archereleven]

You keep saying this but it's his and Brady's job to create opportunities where they seem slim, not just identify whatever us bigfooty pundits could think of.

He and/or Rawlings could have worked to shore up our KPF and KPD depth. Whether it's moving down the order in 2019 or 2020 to take another key position player to develop, picking up someone like Lewis Young, targeting a contracted player for a trade, moving around the order differently to secure someone like a De Koning instead of 1 of Comben, Mahony and Perez, etc.

There are options and when those options seem slim it's the blokes who are paid by the club to create opportunities' role to do so.

Another example, clearly in courting Greenwood we wanted a contested beast for depth and back up. We could've been paid a second rounder to take Brodie but instead insisted on McPherson who wasn't even informed of being requested to be traded. That second rounder could've been used as currency to address another hole.

If we can target blokes like Atu, CCJ, Young, etc. then we can equally target KPPs.

List managers address holes in the list. They need to be creative in doing so. You're mocking people asking for some accountability when it was a hole that even bigfooty pundits could see, but which our list manager said wasn't a hole.

Currently all he and his boss have really done is load up on mids and mid-forwards to the detriment of other parts of the list. We're seeing the fruit of that neglect now.

We are now completely reliant on free agents or players wanting to come to us for our rebuild to succeed.

Top post.



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[Harvey Manfrenjensenden]

This clown worked for an organisation that believed we had 3 of the top 5 wingmen in Dumont, Polec and Tyson. Plus they believed that Mason Cox was Elite in the Position he played in. No doubt Mahoney was drafted on Stats sight unseen. :stern look

I used to work for a guy that believed the moon landing was fake. That doesn't make me a conspiracy theorist

 

[ferball]

You keep saying this but it's his and Brady's job to create opportunities where they seem slim, not just identify whatever us bigfooty pundits could think of.

He and/or Rawlings could have worked to shore up our KPF and KPD depth. Whether it's moving down the order in 2019 or 2020 to take another key position player to develop, picking up someone like Lewis Young, targeting a contracted player for a trade, moving around the order differently to secure someone like a De Koning instead of 1 of Comben, Mahony and Perez, etc.

There are options and when those options seem slim it's the blokes who are paid by the club to create opportunities' role to do so.

Another example, clearly in courting Greenwood we wanted a contested beast for depth and back up. We could've been paid a second rounder to take Brodie but instead insisted on McPherson who wasn't even informed of being requested to be traded. That second rounder could've been used as currency to address another hole.

If we can target blokes like Atu, CCJ, Young, etc. then we can equally target KPPs.

List managers address holes in the list. They need to be creative in doing so. You're mocking people asking for some accountability when it was a hole that even bigfooty pundits could see, but which our list manager said wasn't a hole.

Currently all he and his boss have really done is load up on mids and mid-forwards to the detriment of other parts of the list. We're seeing that fruit of that neglect now.

We are now completely reliant on free agents or players wanting to come to us for our rebuild to succeed.

You're over reacting mate chill out.

The list had holes all over it at the end of 2020. It was Swiss cheese. And it was pretty ****ed before that too.

He and/or Rawlings could have worked to shore up our KPF and KPD depth. Whether it's moving down the order in 2019 or 2020 to take another key position player to develop, picking up someone like Lewis Young, targeting a contracted player for a trade, moving around the order differently to secure someone like a De Koning instead of 1 of Comben, Mahony and Perez, etc.

You're saying that in 2019, when they moved down the order to take a KPF to develop instead they should have moved down the order to take a KPF or KPD to develop. If you mean another one who and at the expense of who?

CCJ also has potential as a depth forward. More than Goldy or X after last night's effort. One spud like Skinner last night would not have made a difference, tho last night was probably very good for Bonar's development as a player. He did a great job considering what he was up against. If we want KPDs we need quality ones and there aren't alot. DGB from 2020 maybe. Gibcus or Aleer from 2021. Would have cost us Horne Francis tho if we traded down to take them.

Currently all he and his boss have really done is load up on mids and mid-forwards to the detriment of other parts of the list.

We had no genuinely good, dynamic small forwards like Curtis on the list, now we have one. We have also brought in Corr, Comben, Perez, CCJ, Goater, Bergman, Edwards, Young, Ham (tho he was no good) none of whom are mids or mid-forwards. Since 2019 we've drafted Powell, Phillips, JHF and maybe Goater who could end up full time mids. Possibly Mahony and Lazzaro for depth. Averages out as two mids per draft over three years. One of them is JHF who you have to take if he is available.

Since 2019 we've recruited 6 potential mids. Five potential med/small forwards. Two potential KPFs. Nine small and medium defenders and two KPDs with two of those having the potential to play tall roles as a third almost KPD. One might still be a porper KPD if they develop well.

That's better list management than we've had all ****en century.

 

[ferball]

tl;dr He and Brady could have had whiskers....

 

[Samsquanch]

There was optimism when it was announced that he was coming to our club.

Now 7 rounds in to 2022 he's getting the calls for him to get the sack.

Was this criticism there last year or even earlier this season?

I think it's too soon to pass judgement.

I think a certain poster who's opinions on football were generally accepted whereas his other opinions were less popular called it out from the outset.

And there were a few others who shared that opinion.

 

[ferball]

Okay...

for the sake of agrument lets assume not having one more KPD for days like yesterday was a **** up.

What else has Luff ****ed up that he deserves the sack for?

Has he got anything right?

 

[Themanbun]

You're over reacting mate chill out.

The list had holes all over it at the end of 2020. It was Swiss cheese. And it was pretty f’ed before that too.

He and/or Rawlings could have worked to shore up our KPF and KPD depth. Whether it's moving down the order in 2019 or 2020 to take another key position player to develop, picking up someone like Lewis Young, targeting a contracted player for a trade, moving around the order differently to secure someone like a De Koning instead of 1 of Comben, Mahony and Perez, etc.

You're saying that in 2019, when they moved down the order to take a KPF to develop instead they should have moved down the order to take a KPF or KPD to develop. If you mean another one who and at the expense of who?

CCJ also has potential as a depth forward. More than Goldy or X after last night's effort. One spud like Skinner last night would not have made a difference, tho last night was probably very good for Bonar's development as a player. He did a great job considering what he was up against. If we want KPDs we need quality ones and there aren't alot. DGB from 2020 maybe. Gibcus or Aleer from 2021. Would have cost us Horne Francis tho if we traded down to take them.

Currently all he and his boss have really done is load up on mids and mid-forwards to the detriment of other parts of the list.

We had no genuinely good, dynamic small forwards like Curtis on the list, now we have one. We have also brought in Corr, Comben, Perez, CCJ, Goater, Bergman, Edwards, Young, Ham (tho he was no good) none of whom are mids or mid-forwards. Since 2019 we've drafted Powell, Phillips, JHF and maybe Goater who could end up full time mids. Possibly Mahony and Lazzaro for depth. Averages out as two mids per draft over three years. One of them is JHF who you have to take if he is available.

Since 2019 we've recruited 6 potential mids. Five potential med/small forwards. Two potential KPFs. Nine small and medium defenders and two KPDs with two of those having the potential to play tall roles as a third almost KPD. One might still be a porper KPD if they develop well.

That's better list management than we've had all fu**en century.

We just played Aiden Bonar on the comp's best 200cm key forward and if Larkey gets suspended we will be playing a 1 gamer who may or may not be injured as our FF. That's not overreacting, it's a realistic assessment of the gravity of our KPP deficiencies.

Re: moving down the order in 2019, I'm saying we should have manuevered to take a bite at another KPP in addition to Comben. Preferably we could do without Mahony.

CCJ was recruited as a ruck. I still don't mind his acquisition.

Corr we are afraid to play on big forwards. Which is mind boggling.

Comben has played 1 game and about 15 games since he was 16 due to injury. I rate him but certainly wouldn't be betting the house on him like we did.

The jury is out on a lot of the other kids recruited. Lazz sticks out as someone who we probably didn't need and arguably Fordy as well, although if we're going to recruit Ford then that leaves us ample room to move on one of our million mid sized forwards for something needed more.

Mahony - mid forward.
Lazzaro - mid forward
Powell - mid
Phillips - mid
Ford - forward hoping to be a mid, ergo a mid forward.
Stevo - mid forward.

We shouldn't have taken 2-3 of these blokes IMO.

That is in addition to the heap that we had on the list - Taylor, Zurhaar, TT, Ziebell.

Plus we've got LDU, JHF, Simpkin, etc. we want as mids.

We knew Edwards would take years on years to get to where he needs to be.

It's not great list management no matter how you spin it. You keep mentioning who we've drafted with complete disregard for who we already had on the list and who were the catalyst for us deciding they would be the nucleus of our resurgence. And list management ain't just about drafting.

Again, we are completely reliant upon KPPs wanting to come to us if we want our KPPs to fire at the same time as our midfield.

If you already have a surplus of, let's say small forwards for argument's sake, and then you take over that list and 'only' recruit 1 or 2, you're still loading up. List management is not just drafting.

I'm bewildered as to how you can see our KPD and KPF depth and conclude that we've managed this list well.

No list manager should comp rely on 'well there was no one who could've walked in for nothing and been a gun on day one' as a defence for neglecting one or more parts of the ground. None.

 

[archereleven]

Attributing drafting to Luff is disingenuous at best imo

It's the job of Finnegan and the scouts to highlight what type of players we need subject to best available etc. Of course Luff has a say in drafting but I'd imagine it's a think tank type situation where the draftee is largely agreed upon as 'best' in the circumstances.

Luffs main job is to surround the kids with protection, leadership and competence whilst manoeuvring picks, free agency and trades that benefit the list.

Anyone stating our kpp depth is adequate, is on the forums greatest piss take and letting go 2 stars of the club without replacement is yesterday waiting to happen. It took 6 rounds to be exposed, and pending a Larkey suspension may be 2 rounds in a row.

I can live with the CCJ pick up, but not taking Brodie gift wrapped with pick 19 is a monumental balls up. Recruiting Greenwood confirms it. The bloke Luff was adamant on recruiting but didn't want to come, has had 4 kicks at HT in a relatively free flowing game.

Our seniors and 2s teams are being flogged almost every weekend.
Who were our KPPs in the VFL this weekend?


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[R00StaR]

I think we're in a pretty good position list wise given where we're at in a rebuild.

Key defenders and forwards might be light on but we have both McKay and Corr down back, Walker as back up. I think we looked better being smaller down back tbh, if we had McKay it wouldbve made a world of difference.

Forwards - Larkey and Comben. Again 2 is enough but granted Comben isnt there just yet but shows plenty.

Rucks - Goldie, X, CCJ and Edwards. If X goes we'd get another year or two from Goldie if needed, if not we have coverage while Edwards develops.

What it allows us imo to take the best available in the coming drafts. If its a forward, back or ruck it wouldnt matter.

Meanwhile we can see if you're not competitive in the midfield no forwards or defenders stand a chance.

 

[ferball]

I'm bewildered as to how you can see our KPD and KPF depth and conclude that we've managed this list well.

Because we're two drafts ie 18 months, into a full rebuild. Which is by definition the reaction what was to a poorly managed list. Brady was barely there at the end of 2019 and Luff was expected to keep the list as stable as possible for Shaw's first pre season.

JFC.

Its just completely unreasonable to expect people to rebuild an entire list and footy department in two seasons. And if you are rebuilding why bother covering holes with shit players who aren't long term options? It didn't work with Menadue so why repeat that mistake?

Mahony - mid forward.
Lazzaro - mid forward
Powell - mid
Phillips - mid
Ford - forward hoping to be a mid, ergo a mid forward.
Stevo - mid forward.

We shouldn't have taken 2-3 of these blokes IMO.

That is in addition to the heap that we had on the list - Taylor, Zurhaar, TT.

Plus we've got LDU, JHF, Simpkin, etc. we want as mids.

That's 12 players we've recruited. Its rare that 12 of 12 recruits make it. Its probably never happened. Some will leave, some will not be good enough. Add Curtis and Spicer and that's 14 players for 7 or eight on field positions plus rotations plus depth to cover injuries and poor form. You could argue we have enough players to cover all mid and non KF spots but only if they all make it.

Personally I think we need more of these mid forward types cos the good ones have athleticism and skill and can be used everywhere, even off the backline.

Between now and the end of 2024 we have six opportunities to recruit mature age KP players who will make a good contribution to a good side, as well as this year and even next year to draft good KPPs. We genuinely could end up with two quality KPDs by Christmas - El Nour/Reinhold and Busslinger look like obvious choices on that front. Maybe they are better options and worth waiting for in a rebuild. Either way over this coming three draft period a bunch of good young players who missed opportunity because of covid will make themselves obvious. So far, given the good players they have picked, I'd back Rawling and Luffs to find some quality young players in that group.

Finally during 2020 our only good mids with a future were Jed and Jy. Cunners had hurt his back and may never have played again. Still might not. The rest were too old, too injured, too young or not really good enough. Now we have four top five mids. Cunners and three young guys - JHF, LDU and WAP. Elite mids are a vital part of any serious football side. We have given ourselves the best chance of having them. And we have another few guys who provide good depth and excellent ball movement.

 

[ferball]

Attributing drafting to Luff is disingenuous at best imo

It's the job of Finnegan and the scouts to highlight what type of players we need subject to best available etc. Of course Luff has a say in drafting but I'd imagine it's a think tank type situation where the draftee is largely agreed upon as 'best' in the circumstances.

Luffs main job is to surround the kids with protection, leadership and competence whilst manoeuvring picks, free agency and trades that benefit the list.

Anyone stating our kpp depth is adequate, is on the forums greatest piss take and letting go 2 stars of the club without replacement is yesterday waiting to happen. It took 6 rounds to be exposed, and pending a Larkey suspension may be 2 rounds in a row.

I can live with the CCJ pick up, but not taking Brodie gift wrapped with pick 19 is a monumental balls up. Recruiting Greenwood confirms it. The bloke Luff was adamant on recruiting but didn't want to come, has had 4 kicks at HT in a relatively free flowing game.

Our seniors and 2s teams are being flogged almost every weekend.
Who were our KPPs in the VFL this weekend?


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Both of these documents suggest it isn't:

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/StKilda/Head%20of%20List%20Management.pdf

What does a "List Manager" do?

Just a bit curious as to what exactly the person in this role would do. And how it would value it would other than jobs done by Coaches, Recruiting Manager and Football Operations Manager. ie what do they do that is not already covered?

www.bigfooty.com

We started rebuilding the side less than two years ago? Why would anything, KPP or otherwise be adequate yet?

Who was Luff adament on recruiting but didn't want to come?

 

[Themanbun]

We're last on the ladder. Getting smacked by 8+ goals each week in both AFL.and VFL. If Larkey is suspended will be playing a 1 gamer or a ruckman as our only KPF. We played Aiden Bonar

16

Aiden Bonar

Age

25

Ht

188cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

5.3

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.8

5star

MG

101.0

2star

D

9.5

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.5

4star

MG

101.0

2star

D

10.8

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.2

5star

on Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

. We pushed out blokes in those key positions who could've been retained for a healthier list weighting.

But the list management team is flying though. Best list management this century. You're all delusional and hysteric for dare criticising them. Someone tell Freo, Adelaide, Hawthorn, Sydney and every other recently rebuilding side they're doing it wrong - they should be exposing former mids turned general defender and also young and raw, to play 1-1 with Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

if they wanna rebuild properly.

You and I won't see eye to eye on this one Ferbs.