I don't think we should've got Burgoyne. (again)

[Buckemenico]

Potential captain.

 

[Hodgepodge]

I assume you mean the Box Hill Hawks?

Dude, Lucas is a fringe player at a club that could not even make the top 8, we are the Premiership team.

Tell me one player out of our Premiership team he would get a game ahead of?

Maybe Whitecross or Duryea.

 

[bris tarangau]

Maybe Whitecross or Duryea.

Are you joking? Both these players do go in hard when it is their turn. Even Duryea has taken marks in front of bigger players, a quality that Lucas does not display often enough.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Are you joking? Both these players do go in hard when it is their turn. Even Duryea has taken marks in front of bigger players, a quality that Lucas does not display often enough.

You have to decide whether you want a ball winner or a role player I guess.

Although I think Duryea has shown this year that he can play in the midfield.

 

[Bosk]

In fairness to Hodgepodge had Varcoe kicked straight and Geelong run over us in extra time in the prelim (which was pretty damn unlikely given they were cooked by the 4th quarter, but bear with me here) a number of our senior players might now be under the gun for not doing enough throughout the year and Burgoyne might be one of them.

I'm not saying it was a bad trade by any means, merely highlighting how little margin there can be in this sport between success (and vindication) and failure.. when inevitably the hard questions are asked.
I really like Burgoyne as a player and he did finish 6th in the B&F this year which is a great effort, but there have been times where I've questioned his ability to impact games and I'm not scared to admit it.

Spending low draft picks when you're "going for broke" to win a flag is great when it pays off and for that reason its impossible not to consider Burgoyne a successful trade. Ultimately we can't keep gambling on ready-made talent forever though or it's really going to cost us in the long term. Of course free agency changes things to a degree and might even shake up the notion of 'premiership windows'.

 

[QuietB]

If we reference back to the cats everyone raves about the hardness of Selwood and the razzle dazzle of SJ. The reality is that Kelly and Stokes and Corey are cutting you to threads in the background with hard, smart, disciplined football. I am more than happy Burgoyne to play that part

 

[NICE1]

In fairness to Hodgepodge had Varcoe kicked straight and Geelong run over us in extra time in the prelim (which was pretty damn unlikely given they were cooked by the 4th quarter, but bear with me here) a number of our senior players might now be under the gun for not doing enough throughout the year and Burgoyne might be one of them.

I'm not saying it was a bad trade by any means, merely highlighting how little margin there can be in this sport between success (and vindication) and failure.. when inevitably the hard questions are asked.
I really like Burgoyne as a player and he did finish 6th in the B&F this year which is a great effort, but there have been times where I've questioned his ability to impact games and I'm not scared to admit it.

Spending low draft picks when you're "going for broke" to win a flag is great when it pays off and for that reason its impossible not to consider Burgoyne a successful trade. Ultimately we can't keep gambling on ready-made talent forever though or it's really going to cost us in the long term. Of course free agency changes things to a degree and might even shake up the notion of 'premiership windows'.

The only senior players I can see being under the gun for not doing enough this year, are Lewis (some would argue he was playing a role) and Sewell. I definately wouldnt put Burgoyne in that catagory because he rose on a number of occasions throughout the year at crucial moments when we needed him.

 

[Dinner Plate]

Spending low draft picks when you're "going for broke" to win a flag is great when it pays off and for that reason its impossible not to consider Burgoyne a successful trade.

This is true.

The other point to consider is that the introduction of the Cold Goats and Greater Waste of Space the expected returns from various drafts have been altered. We won't see the full implications of this until the two teams no longer get concessions in the draft. And when the glut of talent that is passing through the two clubs begins to filter through the competition due to salary cap or free agency pressures, we'll see another change.

I think Hawthorn have been smart and lucky having a Premiership window during the compromised drafts. GC and GWS picked the eyes out of the available talent, and only a few of those players have slipped through the net and on to other clubs. In this environment, why risk the draft when you can bring in experienced bodies and guarantee them finals in return for paying them less than market value?

We need to get maximum value from the talent we have trained at Box Hill. And we need to be smarter about dealing with free agents. We effectively got nothing approaching Judas Franklin's value. Unfortunately, that may mean being even less sentimental and more business-minded about valuable players in future. If we can leverage some advantage from the NZ experiment (and the next experiment, wherever or whatever that may be) that would be a once-off bonus.

When the draft returns to a more level playing field, perhaps then Hawthorn will go back to the draft as a source of top-line talent. Hopefully it doesn't coincide with a fall to the bottom of the ladder.

I'm confident we're set up for a consistently successful near future. But what would I know.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Maybe Whitecross or Duryea.

Ooohhh Sh****t Boooy, now I know you foolin.

 

[MinerBoy]

When you find one can I borrow it for my wife

Don't bother. She will just have to learn to live with her mistakes like the rest of us.

 

[Flamin Joe]

I am one who has constantly jumped to the defence of recruiting Burgoyne because I knew what he would bring to the club and he has done that in spades. But I fail to see the sense in dragging up a thread that is 3 years old!

First we've had the whole Buddy saga derailing our Premiership celebrations, now we have people bringing up old threads just to score cheap points. Seriously, really? The GF feels like it was years ago.

 

[Snibs]

Maybe Whitecross or Duryea.

Pretty sure neither played. Lucas's disposal is nowhere near Hawthorn standards.

 

[QuietB]

The only senior players I can see being under the gun for not doing enough this year, are Lewis (some would argue he was playing a role) and Sewell. I definately wouldnt put Burgoyne in that catagory because he rose on a number of occasions throughout the year at crucial moments when we needed him.

Lewis gets marked very hard. He is top 50 in the AFL for just about everything, including hitouts and does it all while being one of the Hawks go to men when ever there is a problem.

 

[Hawkas1988]

I am one who has constantly jumped to the defence of recruiting Burgoyne because I knew what he would bring to the club and he has done that in spades. But I fail to see the sense in dragging up a thread that is 3 years old!

First we've had the whole Buddy saga derailing our Premiership celebrations, now we have people bringing up old threads just to score cheap points. Seriously, really? The GF feels like it was years ago.

Fair enough but it wasn't just this thread, he has mentioned how recruiting Burgoyne was a bad idea in about another 3 or 4 threads. I was sick of him having a go at Burgers for the past few years and I wanted him to admit to Burgoyne being an integral and critical recruiting decision with our premiership win. The footy department's decisions have proved to be the reason we have won another flag. We needed to fill so many holes after the retirements and delistings in 09 & 10 and the brave calls they made turned us into another powerhouse and Burgoyne was one of the most critical. Big game player.

It has nothing to do with scoring cheap points or likes, if people go on here to score these imaginary points to satisfy their ego then that's pretty sad.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

That's right, just ask Hale, Roughead, Breust, Smith, Franklin or Shiels (And I have probably missed another 5). When we NEED something to happen and happen right, Burgoyne is the man. Wether it be a clearance or a goal, he is the man. Think about the prelim last year.

3 matches I can remember that epitomise Shaun Burgoyne to me -
Round 22 2012 against the $wans. Burgoyne was pivotal in that game with clutch goals from set shots and clutch clearances in the middle and around goal/

Prelim 2012 -
5 minutes to go, Burgers pushes someone out of the middle, gets the clearance and delivers to Rioli for a goal to put us back up. Does the same thing with 18 seconds on the clock, when we NEEDED the clearance. Gets the clearance and bangs it to the hff for us and that kick ensures Adelaide does not have the time to kick forward and win the match

Prelim 2013 -
Without him we lose, that simple. That last qtr effort when we were out on our feet was gold. The Bartel tackle that directly got a goal. The contest with Mackie and give to Gunners = goal and the goal himself when everyone else was missing. He was directly responsible for the last 3 goals of the game. Talk about stepping up when needed.

If that was the only good 3 games he played for us in his entire career I would call the trade worth while.

Just quoting this to see if I can like the post again.

Nail. Head. There was one other game I remember. The last time we played freo at the 'G. He was pivotal in that comeback and kicked a beauty running out of the middle after a centre bounce.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

In fairness to Hodgepodge had Varcoe kicked straight and Geelong run over us in extra time in the prelim (which was pretty damn unlikely given they were cooked by the 4th quarter, but bear with me here) a number of our senior players might now be under the gun for not doing enough throughout the year and Burgoyne might be one of them.

I'm not saying it was a bad trade by any means, merely highlighting how little margin there can be in this sport between success (and vindication) and failure.. when inevitably the hard questions are asked.
I really like Burgoyne as a player and he did finish 6th in the B&F this year which is a great effort, but there have been times where I've questioned his ability to impact games and I'm not scared to admit it.

Spending low draft picks when you're "going for broke" to win a flag is great when it pays off and for that reason its impossible not to consider Burgoyne a successful trade. Ultimately we can't keep gambling on ready-made talent forever though or it's really going to cost us in the long term. Of course free agency changes things to a degree and might even shake up the notion of 'premiership windows'.

I know you said might, but if anyone questioned Burgoyne or Mitchell if we ended up losing the prelim to Geelong, I would have hunted them down, ripped their arms off and beat them to within an inch of their lives with them.

Not literally just pointing out the ridiculousness IMO of them being questioned.

 

[amos]

Maybe Whitecross or Duryea.

. You take the piss far too much

 

[Davo23]

That's right, just ask Hale, Roughead, Breust, Smith, Franklin or Shiels (And I have probably missed another 5). When we NEED something to happen and happen right, Burgoyne is the man. Wether it be a clearance or a goal, he is the man. Think about the prelim last year.

3 matches I can remember that epitomise Shaun Burgoyne to me -
Round 22 2012 against the $wans. Burgoyne was pivotal in that game with clutch goals from set shots and clutch clearances in the middle and around goal/

Prelim 2012 -
5 minutes to go, Burgers pushes someone out of the middle, gets the clearance and delivers to Rioli for a goal to put us back up. Does the same thing with 18 seconds on the clock, when we NEEDED the clearance. Gets the clearance and bangs it to the hff for us and that kick ensures Adelaide does not have the time to kick forward and win the match

Prelim 2013 -
Without him we lose, that simple. That last qtr effort when we were out on our feet was gold. The Bartel tackle that directly got a goal. The contest with Mackie and give to Gunners = goal and the goal himself when everyone else was missing. He was directly responsible for the last 3 goals of the game. Talk about stepping up when needed.

If that was the only good 3 games he played for us in his entire career I would call the trade worth while.

Also in the Prelim 2013: with 30 seconds on the clock, Burgoyne takes the kick out and puts a bullet onto Hodge's chest, allowing us to get the ball out of the danger area.

Doing it at both ends.

.

 

[Flukey!]

But I fail to see the sense in dragging up a thread that is 3 years old!

It's the off season and we are struggling for content

 

[amos]

Also in the Prelim 2013: with 30 seconds on the clock, Burgoyne takes the kick out and puts a bullet onto Hodge's chest, allowing us to get the ball out of the danger area.

Doing it at both ends.

.

Watched the final quarter of that game again and both the running goal from ten out on an angle with oncoming pressure would have been missed by 9/10ths of the competition. The bullet pass from fullback was immense. Loved it.

 

[Hawkas1988]

Also in the Prelim 2013: with 30 seconds on the clock, Burgoyne takes the kick out and puts a bullet onto Hodge's chest, allowing us to get the ball out of the danger area.

Doing it at both ends.

.

So true, I was saying to my mate that if we kick this long from the kick out, I can just see the cats getting it and finding someone free inside 50, we had to short pass it to a target and who steps up to deliver the high pressure kick? Burgoyne.

He makes the crucial pass to Hodge that then makes me feel like yep, we will win from here.