Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Roylion]

I think part of the "peace" made with Jordan, was that the disputed land should be Palestinian.
So technically if the Israeli's disagree with that, or take the land, then Jordan's claim to that land reopens.
Not that i think Jordan would want anything to do with today's mess.

While Jordan has long harboured ambitions to annex part or all of Palestine as far back as 1921, they have no claim to it these days. Jordan supported the Peel Commission in 1937, which proposed that Palestine be split up into a small Jewish state (20 percent of the British Mandate for Palestine) and the remaining land be annexed into Jordan (then known as Transjordan.

Abdullah of Transjordan wanted to unite Jordan and Palestine under his own rule (and even came to an agreement with the Jewish Agency to annex most of the proposed Arab State in return for not entering the part of Palestine assigned to the new Jewish state with his army). So Jordan also supported the UN partition plan of 1947 in order that the Arab allocated areas of the British Mandate for Palestine could be annexed into their own territory.

In any case, with the agreement of many Palestinian leaders, at the Jericho Conference in 1948 Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950 claiming full sovereignity over the territory. All residents of the West Bank were given automatic Jordanian citizenship. In the Jordanian parliament, the West and East Banks received 30 seats each, having roughly equal populations.

On 27 July 1953, King Hussein of Jordan announced that East Jerusalem was "the alternative capital of the Hashemite Kingdom" and would form an "integral and inseparable part" of Jordan.

Jordan renounced all claims to the West Bank in 1988 and the state of war between Israel and Jordan (which had been ongoing since 1948) officially ended in October 1994

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

The Jewish Agency accepted the 1947 Partition Plan, as I've demonstrated.

Why did they start cleansing Palestinian cities and villages in 1947, almost as soon as the General Assembly voted on 181, if they accepted the plan?

Why did they murder thousands of Palestinians starting December 1947 - including in territory earmarked for a future Palestinian state?

Why did they not take any of the other actions that the Plan outlined, except for declare themselves a state?

Yes they have. One increase was as a result of the 1947-1948 war and others have been as a result of other conflicts.

Why even bother stating this. What is your point? That this acquisition of land is somehow valid or legitimate?

Because under all international law, you'd be wrong.

 

[Roylion]

Why did they start cleansing Palestinian cities and villages in 1947,

War broke out. First a civil war and then an international war when several Arab countries sent forces into Palestine to remove the newly declared Jewish state.

Arab and Jewish communities were clashing even before the declaration of independence on May 14th 1948 but this obviously escalated after May 15th. Some historians such as Ilan Pappe and Walid Khalidi declare 'Plan Dalet' as a plan for ethnic cleansing, but other historians such as Benny Morris suggest that the aim was clearing of hostile and potentially hostile forces out of the interior of the territory of the prospective Jewish State.

Military historian David Tal suggested that the the aim was to ensure full control over the territory assigned to the Jews by the partition resolution, thus placing the Haganah in the best possible strategic position to face an Arab invasion.

almost as soon as the General Assembly voted on 181, if they accepted the plan?

The vote on Resolution 181 took place on 29th November 1947. Arab governments immediately rejected the plan of partition in the resolution and indicated that they would reject any other plan of partition. Haj Amin al-Husseni, a Palestinian Arab nationlist said in March 1948 that the Arabs did not intend merely to prevent partition but "would continue fighting until the Zionists were annihilated." According to Benny Morris, the Arab Higher Committee demanded that in a Palestinian Arab state, the majority of the Jews should not be citizens (those who had not lived in Palestine before the British Mandate).

There were protests against the Resolution by Arabs throughout the country, a three day general strike and murders and reprisals by both sides against each other. For example, there were bombings by the Haganah and Irgun and reprisals such as the Haifa Oil Refinery massacre of 39 Jews in December 1947 which in turn was met by another reprisal where 70 Arabs were killed in the Balad al-Shaykh massacre. Both sides employed snipers firing at houses, pedestrians, and traffic, as well as planting bombs and mines along urban and rural paths and roads. There was an Arab blockade of the 100,000 Jewish residents of Jerusalem in January 1948 and in return Jewish groups escalated their attacks against Arabs. The Kfar Etzion massacre in May 1948 where around 120-150 Jewish residents and defenders were killed by Arab irregulars and the Hadassah medical convoy masscre with 80 Jewish deaths, which included the mass killing of medical personnel by Arabs was in retaliation to the Deir Yassin massacre in early 1948 where just over 100 Palestinioan villagers were killed.

The Iraqi general Ismail Safwat noted in March 1948 that "the Jews have not so far attacked Arab villages unless the inhabitants of those villages attacked them or provoked them first." (Safwat's fourth report to the Arab League Palestinian Committee (March 23rd 1948).

Why did they murder thousands of Palestinians starting December 1947 - including in territory earmarked for a future Palestinian state?

Ilan Pappe estimates that 400 Jews and 1,500 Arabs had been killed killed by January 1948. Benny Morris estimated that by April 1948 about 1,000 Jews had died. About 100,000 Palestinians had fled by March 1948.

However its evident that more Palestinian Arabs civilians were killed than Jews in various massacres / battles that took place in 1948. Historian Benny Morris suggests the reasons for that was that the Israelis captured some four hundred Arab villages and towns during April–November 1948, (some inside the area that the UN had partititoned for a Jewish state and some outside), whereas the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab Liberation Army failed to take any settlements and the Arab armies that invaded in mid-May overran fewer than a dozen Jewish settlements.

Why did they not take any of the other actions that the Plan outlined, except for declare themselves a state?

What other actions did the Plan outline?

Why even bother stating this. What is your point? That this acquisition of land is somehow valid or legitimate?

Did I say that? I merely stated fact in response to a previous comment.

I'll repeat the conversation for you.

Saint: "They've only increased it since then."

Me: "Yes they have. One increase was as a result of the 1947-1948 war and others have been as a result of other conflicts."

Isn't that fact?

Because under all international law, you'd be wrong.

Where did I say that it was somehow 'valid or legitimate'?

 

[Not Important]

Why did they start cleansing Palestinian cities and villages in 1947, almost as soon as the General Assembly voted on 181, if they accepted the plan?

Why did they murder thousands of Palestinians starting December 1947 - including in territory earmarked for a future Palestinian state?

Why did they not take any of the other actions that the Plan outlined, except for declare themselves a state?




Why even bother stating this. What is your point? That this acquisition of land is somehow valid or legitimate?

Because under all international law, you'd be wrong.

you're on the ball m8

In the 1917 Balfour Declaration, Britain recognised the Jews as a people and promised them a national home in Palestine. Although not legally binding in 1917, the Balfour Declaration was of cardinal importance in providing international political support for the idea of recreating a Jewish national home in Palestine. The Declaration was at first a conditional promise, but subsequent to the Declaration, Turkey renounced its claim to Palestine and Britain took control of the whole of Palestine and was in a position to implement it. The Declaration subsequently obtained binding international legal status in the San Remo Resolution and in the 1922 League of Nations Mandate for Palestine. The Balfour Declaration obliged the British Government to preserve the individual rights of the Arab population of Palestine but did not recognise them as a people or promise them national rights, although they constituted a majority of the population at the time. This caused anger amongst the Arab population of Palestine and contradicted the Arab interpretation of the McMahon Hussein correspondence, whereby Palestine was to be part of an independent Arab State.

The Zionist Movement and the 1917 Balfour Declaration

 

[SaintsSeptember]

While Jordan has long harboured ambitions to annex part or all of Palestine as far back as 1921, they have no claim to it these days. Jordan supported the Peel Commission in 1937, which proposed that Palestine be split up into a small Jewish state (20 percent of the British Mandate for Palestine) and the remaining land be annexed into Jordan (then known as Transjordan.

Abdullah of Transjordan wanted to unite Jordan and Palestine under his own rule (and even came to an agreement with the Jewish Agency to annex most of the proposed Arab State in return for not entering the part of Palestine assigned to the new Jewish state with his army). So Jordan also supported the UN partition plan of 1947 in order that the Arab allocated areas of the British Mandate for Palestine could be annexed into their own territory.

In any case, with the agreement of many Palestinian leaders, at the Jericho Conference in 1948 Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950 claiming full sovereignity over the territory. All residents of the West Bank were given automatic Jordanian citizenship. In the Jordanian parliament, the West and East Banks received 30 seats each, having roughly equal populations.

On 27 July 1953, King Hussein of Jordan announced that East Jerusalem was "the alternative capital of the Hashemite Kingdom" and would form an "integral and inseparable part" of Jordan.

Jordan renounced all claims to the West Bank in 1988 and the state of war between Israel and Jordan (which had been ongoing since 1948) officially ended in October 1994

They were kind of ripped off though.
Originally Jordan claimed to represent the Palestinians, but they then recognized the PLO as representing the Palestinians in the west bank.
Not sure if its Kosher ( sorry ) to then kick the Palestinians off the land.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The israeli's played a lot of sillybuggers with various laws.

Israel's settlements: Over 50 years of land theft explained

More than 600,000 Israelis live in illegal settlements in the West Bank and occupied East Jerusalem.

interactive.aljazeera.com

----------------------------------------------------
Israel has declared at least 26 percent of the West Bank as “state land”.

Using a different interpretation of Ottoman, British and Jordanian laws, Israel stole public and private Palestinian land for settlements under the pretext of “state land”.

Though many Palestinians had paid taxes and cultivated their land for decades, most land wasn't registered during the Ottoman and British occupations; in 1968, Israel stopped the process of land registration and declared any unregistered land as belonging to the Israeli government.

 

[rjslcM]

In terms of the cities that hold the most historical significance to Christians and Muslims, there aren't many that aren't under Islamic control now...

Christian Cities​

1. Jerusalem (Islamic)
2. Rome (Christian)
3. Constantinople/Istanbul (Islamic)
4. Antioch/Antakya (Islamic)
5. Alexandria (Islamic)
6. Bethlehem (Islamic)
7. Ephesus (Islamic)
8. Carthage (Islamic)
9. Milan (Christian)
10. Canterbury (Christian)

Islamic Cities​

1. Mecca (Islamic)
2. Medina (Islamic)
3. Jerusalem (Islamic)
4. Baghdad (Islamic)
5. Damascus (Islamic)
6. Cairo (Islamic)
7. Istanbul (Islamic)
8. Kufa (Islamic)
9. Karbala (Islamic)
10. Qom (Islamic)

Islamic culture has well and truly fermented in the Middle East for a long time now. Jerusalem has been under Islamic control for 1100 of the last 1400 years.

Every country surrounding Israel is Islamic. Really, from a military standpoint in history, you'd have to ask, what the **** are they still doing there? Why wouldn't the Israel and the West cede Jerusalem and evacuate all Israelis to Europe. It makes more sense than sticking with an isolated outpost, surrounded by Islamic countries, perpetuating a cycle of violence and loss of life. When Constantinople/Istanbul fell 500 years ago, the territory was ceded, the people fled to Italy (the renaissance happened) and given that the West haven't tried to recapture Istanbul, relative peace has existed there since.

By staying, you would think Israel/the West want:

1. To live peacefully, be able to visit sites of religious significance with cultural and historical significance, and avoid interaction with their neigbouring countries? Reality check: your country is surrounded by Islamic countries who view you as a threat and feel displaced by your existence in the region. Peace is unlikely. Try again.

2. To have Palestine cede the West Bank and Gaza to Israel, thereby extending power and influence in the region. Eventually, this leads to a larger conflict as, again, Israel is surrounded by Islamic countries in every direction, who aren't exactly happy about what's happened. Further extremist groups arise. This likely only giving rise to further escalations in hostility. Possible escalation to a irreversible war. Try again.

3. To proceed as we have been, with wars starting and stopping in the region due to varying levels of tension. No one wins and no one really loses territory broadly, but many lose life. Perhaps this, in the end, is the best option for the West. More important than Jerusalem in the Western story (but perhaps not the Christian story) is Rome, Athens and all of the artefacts you can find in the Louvre. Greek democracy and the Roman Empire gave rise to our Western civilisation, and it was under the peace of the Romans that allowed the biblical stories to emerge. Never forget the importance of Rome. Perhaps, as the West see it, if conflict and tension is inevitable between two world views, its better that the conflict happens on the doorstep of the Middle East, and not on the doorstep of Europe.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

War broke out. First a civil war and then an international war when several Arab countries sent forces into Palestine to remove the newly declared Jewish state.

Arab and Jewish communities were clashing even before the declaration of independence on May 14th 1948 but this obviously escalated after May 15th. Some historians such as Ilan Pappe and Walid Khalidi declare 'Plan Dalet' as a plan for ethnic cleansing, but other historians such as Benny Morris suggest that the aim was clearing of hostile and potentially hostile forces out of the interior of the territory of the prospective Jewish State.

Military historian David Tal suggested that the the aim was to ensure full control over the territory assigned to the Jews by the partition resolution, thus placing the Haganah in the best possible strategic position to face an Arab invasion.

No, war didn't break out. Zionists military forces went on a massacre spree - al-Khisas, Baldat al-Sheikh, , Deir Yassin, Nasir al-Din, the list goes on. Sa'sa' - 70 Palestinians murdered. Ben Gurion praised the attack because it caused the Arabs to flee.

Operations Nachshon, Harel, Hametz, Maccabi, Ben'Ami, all on territory assigned to Palestinians, all before May 14, all before any intervening Arab army.

Arab armies entered Palestine because the Zionist movement was cleansing Palestinians and the refugees had begun to reach surrounding Arab capitals. Their populations were in uproar. They sent paltry defensive forces - not some all-conquering army to 'eliminate Israel'.

The vote on Resolution 181 took place on 29th November 1947. Arab governments immediately rejected the plan of partition in the resolution and indicated that they would reject any other plan of partition. Haj Amin al-Husseni, a Palestinian Arab nationlist said in March 1948 that the Arabs did not intend merely to prevent partition but "would continue fighting until the Zionists were annihilated." According to Benny Morris, the Arab Higher Committee demanded that in a Palestinian Arab state, the majority of the Jews should not be citizens (those who had not lived in Palestine before the British Mandate).

Your New Historian revisionism does not hold up. The actions of the Arab armies shows their aims were limited and focused on saving Palestine from total Jewish domination. Empty rhetoric and platitudes.

Regardless it was already clear what the Zionist plan was by this stage. Irgun were carbombing people in early Dec 1947. Lehi were deploying truck bombs in January 48. February Palmach were bombing people in Haifa.

There were protests against the Resolution by Arabs throughout the country, a three day general strike and murders and reprisals by both sides against each other. For example, there were bombings by the Haganah and Irgun and reprisals such as the Haifa Oil Refinery massacre of 39 Jews in December 1947 which in turn was met by another reprisal where 70 Arabs were killed in the Balad al-Shaykh massacre. Both sides employed snipers firing at houses, pedestrians, and traffic, as well as planting bombs and mines along urban and rural paths and roads. There was an Arab blockade of the 100,000 Jewish residents of Jerusalem in January 1948 and in return Jewish groups escalated their attacks against Arabs. The Kfar Etzion massacre in May 1948 where around 120-150 Jewish residents and defenders were killed by Arab irregulars and the Hadassah medical convoy masscre with 80 Jewish deaths, which included the mass killing of medical personnel by Arabs was in retaliation to the Deir Yassin massacre in early 1948 where just over 100 Palestinioan villagers were killed.

The Iraqi general Ismail Safwat noted in March 1948 that "the Jews have not so far attacked Arab villages unless the inhabitants of those villages attacked them or provoked them first." (Safwat's fourth report to the Arab League Palestinian Committee (March 23rd 1948).



Ilan Pappe estimates that 400 Jews and 1,500 Arabs had been killed killed by January 1948. Benny Morris estimated that by April 1948 about 1,000 Jews had died. About 100,000 Palestinians had fled by March 1948.

However its evident that more Palestinian Arabs civilians were killed than Jews in various massacres / battles that took place in 1948. Historian Benny Morris suggests the reasons for that was that the Israelis captured some four hundred Arab villages and towns during April–November 1948, (some inside the area that the UN had partititoned for a Jewish state and some outside), whereas the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab Liberation Army failed to take any settlements and the Arab armies that invaded in mid-May overran fewer than a dozen Jewish settlements.

Are you copy pasting wikipedia articles here?

Yes native inhabitants tried to fight back. Only one side was on a cleansing crusade to carve out an ethnostate.

What other actions did the Plan outline?

Adoption of a constitution for the Jewish state.
Jaffa to be an Arab conclave.
No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish state.
International zone for Jerusalem.

Israel ignored everything except for what suited them. Ben Gurion openly acknowledged they didn't consider any boundaries to be final. I would call that not accepting the 1947 Resolution at all.

Did I say that? I merely stated fact in response to a previous comment.

I'll repeat the conversation for you.

Saint: "They've only increased it since then."

Me: "Yes they have. One increase was as a result of the 1947-1948 war and others have been as a result of other conflicts."

Isn't that fact?




Where did I say that it was somehow 'valid or legitimate'?

They haven't only increased their land through conflict. They also now arbitrarily claim Palestinian land out of petty revenge.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

In terms of the cities that hold the most historical significance to Christians and Muslims, there aren't many that aren't under Islamic control now...

Christian Cities​

1. Jerusalem (Islamic)
2. Rome (Christian)
3. Constantinople/Istanbul (Islamic)
4. Antioch/Antakya (Islamic)
5. Alexandria (Islamic)
6. Bethlehem (Islamic)
7. Ephesus (Islamic)
8. Carthage (Islamic)
9. Milan (Christian)
10. Canterbury (Christian)

Islamic Cities​

1. Mecca (Islamic)
2. Medina (Islamic)
3. Jerusalem (Islamic)
4. Baghdad (Islamic)
5. Damascus (Islamic)
6. Cairo (Islamic)
7. Istanbul (Islamic)
8. Kufa (Islamic)
9. Karbala (Islamic)
10. Qom (Islamic)

Islamic culture has well and truly fermented in the Middle East for a long time now. Jerusalem has been under Islamic control for 1100 of the last 1400 years.

Every country surrounding Israel is Islamic. Really, from a military standpoint in history, you'd have to ask, what the **** are they still doing there? Why wouldn't the Israel and the West cede Jerusalem and evacuate all Israelis to Europe. It makes more sense than sticking with an isolated outpost, surrounded by Islamic countries, perpetuating a cycle of violence and loss of life. When Constantinople/Istanbul fell 500 years ago, the territory was ceded, the people fled to Italy (the renaissance happened) and given that the West haven't tried to recapture Istanbul, relative peace has existed there since.

By staying, you would think Israel/the West want:

1. To live peacefully, be able to visit sites of religious significance with cultural and historical significance, and avoid interaction with their neigbouring countries? Reality check: your country is surrounded by Islamic countries who view you as a threat and feel displaced by your existence in the region. Peace is unlikely. Try again.

2. To have Palestine cede the West Bank and Gaza to Israel, thereby extending power and influence in the region. Eventually, this leads to a larger conflict as, again, Israel is surrounded by Islamic countries in every direction, who aren't exactly happy about what's happened. Further extremist groups arise. This likely only giving rise to further escalations in hostility. Possible escalation to a irreversible war. Try again.

3. To proceed as we have been, with wars starting and stopping in the region due to varying levels of tension. No one wins and no one really loses territory broadly, but many lose life. Perhaps this, in the end, is the best option for the West. More important than Jerusalem in the Western story (but perhaps not the Christian story) is Rome, Athens and all of the artefacts you can find in the Louvre. Greek democracy and the Roman Empire gave rise to our Western civilisation, and it was under the peace of the Romans that allowed the biblical stories to emerge. Never forget the importance of Rome. Perhaps, as the West see it, if conflict and tension is inevitable between two world views, its better that the conflict happens on the doorstep of the Middle East, and not on the doorstep of Europe.

For starters, Turkey and Italy are secular states.

 

[rjslcM]

For starters, Turkey and Italy are secular states.

I could have been a bit more careful with my words.

"In terms of the cities that hold the most historical significance to Christians and Muslims, there aren't many that aren't under Islamic control comprised of a population that is significantly Islamic and/or hold strong Islamic values..."

Although, being a secular state doesn't determine whether religion interferes with the state's military direction. Jordan (Islamic state) being an ally while Syria and Lebanon (secular states) not recognising Israel are good examples.

Regardless, my point was that Israel is surrounded by Islamic countries on every border. Although such countries may not be strictly for or against Israel in their policies, factions can arise from within these opposing belief systems that are more extreme than the state itself. I could have also been a little more careful with my words to that end as well.

Lastly, I admit that I can also be a little dramatic and perhaps ceding a country and evacuating it is unnecessary. An easier solution to all of this would be to learn to coexist peacefully and agree on some good borders. Any ideas on how to make that happen?

 

[Not Important]

there have been a few attempts at re-writing history here which is helpful to the zionist fan base bc it distracts from the genocide that is occurring at this very minute.

1. israel was gifted palestinian land in which to establish the state of israel.

2. from that moment the zionists set about annexing the remainder of the palestinians land - violently and in breach of the laws of war, the united nations charter, and international humanitarian law. at a systemic personal level through harassment and abuse, the repeated unbridled attacks on residents, denial of freedom of movement and often food, water and medical care, confiscation of land, and destruction of homes and farms thereby destroying livelihoods. the i.d.f randomly invading homes in the night hours to terrorise families - not only does breaking the silence (https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il) have the testimonies of former i.d.f soldiers, i have linked to one in this thread who lives in melbourne and who spoke at a rally attesting to this mistreatment. all designed to make palestinian lives increasingly unbearable and unliveable with the aim of driving them out.

at a warfare-level bombing, including the unlawful use of white phosphorous, and the use of snipers, armed vehicles, and other weaponry often indiscriminately.

and the world stood by and watched.

3. the october attack by hamas was horrific. and it was counter-productive as it played into the hands of the corrupt and morally bankrupt netanyahu and his fellow ghouls. they then had the excuse for genocide.

and the world is standing by doing nothing for the palestinians.

4. neither the p.l.o nor hamas (which israel supported in the election) ever represented any real threat to israel continuing to be a sovereign state. israel has state-of-the-art weaponry, massive funding from the u.s, power and influence around the world. the p.l.o and hamas were/are minnows in all those respects. it has been david and goliath in dimension.

5. on every occasion peace has been in prospect israel has placed impediments in the way. as they are at this very time. and when peace was at its closest one of their own assassinated the p.m who had carriage of the peace talks. israel has never had a genuine interest in peace, their interest has been driving the palestinians from their homeland at whatever cost to the palestinians who have been comparatively easy prey.
and the world has stood by and watched.

6. then there has been the zionist diaspora who have protected the ghouls and attacked honourable truth-telling jewish folks like antony loewenstein, louise adler, miriam margolyes, gideon levy and many others. all of whom have been telling all who would listen about the treachery and dangers zionism represents.

and the world hasn’t listened, thereby enabling the powerful and influential diaspora to get away with protecting the dark side.

7. “the standard you walk past is the standard you accept”

Chief of the Army, Lieutenant-General David Morrison

 

[Not Important]

may his god love him.

 

[Roylion]

No, war didn't break out.

A civil war did break out. The Arab Liberation Army supported and funded by the Arab League (and in particular by Syria) was in operation in Palestine by January 1948 and the Army of the Holy War was also operating there in support of Palestinian fighters.

Zionists military forces went on a massacre spree - al-Khisas, Baldat al-Sheikh, , Deir Yassin, Nasir al-Din, the list goes on. Sa'sa' - 70 Palestinians murdered. Ben Gurion praised the attack because it caused the Arabs to flee.

There were also massacres of Jews. Kfar Sirkin, Ben Yehuda, Haddasah and Kfar Etzion. There were several Arab attempts to capture Jewish villages and towns from January 1948 onwards.

Operations Nachshon, Harel, Hametz, Maccabi, Ben'Ami, all on territory assigned to Palestinians, all before May 14, all before any intervening Arab army.

The Partition Plan was rejected by Arab leaders and elements of the Arab Liberation Army had entered Palestine in January 1948. Abdullah of Jordan had sent in the Arab Legion into attack Jewish settlements on May 4th 1948.

The Haganah certainly went on the offensive in April 1948, after the Partition Plan was rejected by the Arab leaders. Operations Nachshon and Harel were conducted in April 1948 in order to provide food, medicine, arms, and fuel to the blockaded Jewish residents of Jerusalem by taking the road between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Operation Maccabi was similar with its aim of several villages along the Jerusalem road. Operation Hametz captured several inland Arab towns around Jaffa while Ben’ Ami in early May 1948 captured Acre.

Arab armies entered Palestine because the Zionist movement was cleansing Palestinians and the refugees had begun to reach surrounding Arab capitals. Their populations were in uproar. They sent paltry defensive forces - not some all-conquering army to 'eliminate Israel'.

As for ‘paltry defensive forces’ there were about 25,000 in the Arab armies that entered Palestine in May 1948. The Arab armies had risen to an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949. The Arab armies couldn’t match the Jewish rate of increase to their armies and as well as that, they were disorganised and disunited.

Arab armies entered Palestine for a number of reasons. None of them were there to establish a Palestinian state. Jordan aimed to take the entirety of Palestine for itself. Most of them wanted an end to the Partition Plan. They rejected the UN partition plan and were opposed to the establishment of a Jewish state alongside an Arab one. The Arab League itself gave reasons one of which was to establish a unitary Palestinian state, over the whole of Palestine. The Arab League’s Secretary-General Azzam Pasha made it quite clear before the invasion what the intention was. “It does not matter how many there are. We will sweep them into the sea.”

Abdullah of Jordan was the only exception amongst Arab leaders in opposing partition – he would have liked all of Palestine, but was prepared to compromise if he could at least get the Arab portion of the partition plan. So, he supported it. Farouk of Egypt wished to annex all of southern Palestine to Egypt. Nuri wanted to bring the entire Fertile Crescent under Iraqi leadership. Both Syria and Lebanon wished to take certain areas of northern Palestine.

It is true that the surrounding Arab countries did not want Palestinian refugees flooding their existing territories.

Your New Historian revisionism does not hold up. The actions of the Arab armies shows their aims were limited and focused on saving Palestine from total Jewish domination. Empty rhetoric and platitudes.

The Arab League opposed any establishment of a Jewish state. Their stated aim was the establishment of a unitary Palestinian state and of course they wanted to halt the Haganah’s advances. Jordan’s aims were annex as much of the territory of Palestine as they could. Apart from Jordan’s Arab legion the other Arab forces were ill-trained and disorgansed.

Regardless it was already clear what the Zionist plan was by this stage. Irgun were carbombing people in early Dec 1947. Lehi were deploying truck bombs in January 48. February Palmach were bombing people in Haifa.

After the resolution was adopted by the UN, fighting began with attacks by irregular bands of Palestinian Arabs attached to local units of the Arab Liberation Army. Attacks took place on Jews such as bus attacks at Kfar Sirkin and Hadera on 30th November 1947 (which were the first casualties post the passing of the UN resolution )and the Haifa Oil Refinery massacre in late December 1947.

Adoption of a constitution for the Jewish state.

The intention is to one day have a formal constitution, but the 14 Basic laws serve as a uncodified Constitution. New Zealand, Britain, Canada and Saudi Arabia don’t have formal constitutions either.

Jaffa to be an Arab conclave.

The UN resolution was rejected by Palestinian Arab leadership and by the Arab League wasn’t it? Jaffa was taken by the Haganah in the subsequent war on 14th May 1948.

The original draft of Israel's Declaration of Independence which agreed to the United Nations Partition Plan as set out via Resolution 181(II) on 29th November 1947 declared that Israel's borders would be that decided by the UN partition plan, however this was later changed in the face of Arab attacks.

David Ben-Gurion later stated,

"We accepted the UN Resolution [of 1947], but the Arabs did not. They are preparing to make war on us. If we defeat them and capture western Galilee or territory on both sides of the road to Jerusalem, these areas will become part of the state. Why should we obligate ourselves to accept boundaries that in any case the Arabs don't accept?"

Even the name of Israel was chosen on 12th May 1948 for the new state, over Zion, Judea and Palestine because there was an expectation that an Arab state was about to be established alongside the Jewish one in keeping with the UN's partition resolution that would probably be called Palestine and include the ancient region of Judea. Aharon Reuveni wrote on December 5th 1947, "How shall we give the name Judea to a state that does not include Jerusalem and Hebron, and leaves the Judean Hills outside its border?"

No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish state.

There’s little doubt that when Arab leaders both inside and outside Palestine rejected the Partition plan, Arab land was appropriated, both before the declaration of a Jewish state on May 14th and after when the newly declared Jewish state was attacked.

International zone for Jerusalem.

The UN resolution was rejected by Palestinian Arab leadership and by the Arab League wasn’t it and a blockade of the Jewish population of Jersualem was put in place by the Holy Army? Subsequently after the resultant Battle of Jerusalem ended in July 1948, the city of Jerusalem was divided between Israel and Jordan from 1948 until 1967.

Israel ignored everything except for what suited them. Ben Gurion openly acknowledged they didn't consider any boundaries to be final. I would call that not accepting the 1947 Resolution at all.

The first draft of the Declaration of Independence written at the start of May 1948 did specifically state the borders of the new state would match the partition plan.

Ben-Gurion argued against this on the basis of the events of March – April 1948 and the refusal of the various Arab leaders and governments to accept the Partition plan. "Why should we obligate ourselves to accept boundaries that in any case the Arabs don't accept?"

They haven't only increased their land through conflict. They also now arbitrarily claim Palestinian land out of petty revenge.

The entire West Bank has been militarily occupied by Israel since June 1967 as result of conflict.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Netanyahu doesn't survive without ongoing conflicts

 

[Not Important]

decades of witnessing cruelty, and seeing their land stolen violently must take a toll. yet some peeps would prefer to divert attention by re-writing history using selective unattributed quotes. look-over-here-ism

 

[Not Important]

the occupiers, annexers, and conscienceless zionists and their enablers do. sickening to any reasonable person.

 

[Not Important]

made my day.



the creature is the personifiaction of evil

 

[Saint]

Worth pointing out that Israel have not stopped the massacres. Even after the Nakba, In the 50's the IDF (led by, and full of people who had committed ethnic cleansing in the 30's and 40s'), continued to massacre Palestinian villages.

Qibya (1953), led by Ariel Sharon was Israel going into Jordan and massacring a whole village, mostly women and children, then covering it up.

Kafr Qasim (1956), where Israel declared a curfew and before they let the villagers know about the curfew, they started slaughtering them.

Or Rishon LeZion when an Israeli terrorist killed 7 people and then in the subsequent protests, the IDF killed another 13. (What happened to the terrorist who committed this? Well, he's married 3 people from prison, had 3 children, managed to crash a car while out of prison when he should have been in it, and he gets regular payments from NGO's, just like what Israel complains that the Palestinian Authority does for Palestinian terrorists)

The IDF has been an immoral army founded by terrorists since its inception. The support for, and involvement in, West Bank terrorism by the IDF is not an outlier, it's how they've always operated. They have museums in Israel for their pre-Israeli terror groups.

When you hear people say Israel is the most moral army, it's like the catholic church saying they're a great educational institution which has always cared for children.

Both sides have awful histories which started 100 years ago and are as bad today as they have ever been. The world should be sanctioning both of them and forcing them to behave like modern nations.

 

[Saint]

ALso, even if Hezbollah didn't do it, why don't they just say there was a Shin Bet commander at the soccer match that got blown up in Majdal?

Then Israel can either say killing kids is disproportionate, or they can shut up about the killing of a dozen kids, when they killed twice as many the day before.

At the moment we have a bunch of hypocrites saying that the blowing up of kids (in illegally occupied territory) is a tragedy, while supporting the same thing just a couple of hundred miles away.

 

[Chief]

I'm not up to date on this one -

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I'm not up to date on this one -

Israel has it's own Abu Ghraib in Sde Taiman. Has obviously been encouraged by Ben Gvir and covered up for months, but finally acknowledged when they couldnt remove a phone from a prisoners anus and had to send them to hospital. ICC and ICJ have threatened investigations and UK stopped an arms sale, so now it is being investigated internally. MPs arrested some 9 prison guards, and these good people are protesting the arrests and are of the opinion Palestinians deserve such treatment.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Batshit country

 

[treeebeard]

Neither side accepted the boundaries. Israel took 1947, because it was an increase from zero. They've only increased it since then. They never intended at stopping at the 1947 boundaries, and neither did the other side.

Don't forget, the IDF was formed out of declared terrorist organisations. Don't let the Israeli propaganda convince you that they were a law-abiding healthy Govt in 1947. They were bloodthirsty terrorists. And whether the Arabs accepted the partition or not, the Israelis were going to set about exterminating them.

Unfortunately for Israel, in 1947, colonialism was still accepted. Even into the 60's, they should have sought a truce then. In 2024, it's not acceptable to the global community, so what they're doing in the West Bank is seen as the same as what Russia is doing in Ukraine. They see themselves the same way as Christian missionaries murdering their way through the Congo did. Spreading their deity's word with the spilling of blood. Israel risk losing everything they've gained since 1967 because the longer it goes on, the more everything since 1947 and earlier is being questioned.

Plan Dalet is still in play

 

[Saint]

Batshit country

Likud have stopped hiding their terrorism and Jewish Supremacist roots, it's now out in the open. Anyone supporting them is no better than somebody supporting any other colonial genocide which everyone had been pretending was relegated to history.