Feel the Heater
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- Dec 11, 2003
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What do you know 'Newbie'!
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Jason Johnson or Adem Yze?
- Thread starter raskolnikov
- Start date
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What do you know 'Newbie'!
"Again simple minded stats don't paint the full-picture. Lloyd is in a forward line with more supply where he's not the only option, but the main option."
So your Saying that Jason Johnson is a better player than Yze and gives his forward line more chances
sorry cheap point scoring.
So your Saying that Jason Johnson is a better player than Yze and gives his forward line more chances
sorry cheap point scoring.
Feel the Heater
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- Dec 11, 2003
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You do have a point there though, Yze is 26 so surely his best is way behind him. No really, good point............................seriously.
Feel the Heater
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Originally posted by bLuEMoOsE
"Again simple minded stats don't paint the full-picture. Lloyd is in a forward line with more supply where he's not the only option, but the main option."
So your Saying that Jason Johnson is a better player than Yze and gives his forward line more chances
sorry cheap point scoring.
Wow, that's impressive. I didn't know that only 1 player supplied an entire teams forward thrusts. You should make rockets.
Nice to see it got down to the Lloyd versus Neitz debate.
It is a fair point that Neitz has played up the ground, but, it is also fair to say that Lloyd has done so as well, particularly early on, when he was a half-forward flanker.
Who really gives a **** when the 100th goal is kicked really. To be fortunate enough to be in a position where you can kick 100 goals in a season, is good enough for me. Most clubs would kill for a player to be able to deliver that to them these days.
As to the cheating points..once again...no-one really gives a ****. It was in the past and there it shall remain. Sure I'm not all that happy about it, but the penalties have been metered out and served.
The upshot out of receiving those penalties is that the club rose above them.
It is a fair point that Neitz has played up the ground, but, it is also fair to say that Lloyd has done so as well, particularly early on, when he was a half-forward flanker.
Who really gives a **** when the 100th goal is kicked really. To be fortunate enough to be in a position where you can kick 100 goals in a season, is good enough for me. Most clubs would kill for a player to be able to deliver that to them these days.
As to the cheating points..once again...no-one really gives a ****. It was in the past and there it shall remain. Sure I'm not all that happy about it, but the penalties have been metered out and served.
The upshot out of receiving those penalties is that the club rose above them.
marcuz
Norm Smith Medallist
You got pants'd. You put up no logical argument to anything and anything that slightly resembled an arguable point was shot down quicker than the iraqi air force.
Neitz is better than Lloyd
Yze is better than johnson
And you gave me a lesson in posting.
Give us a bell when you get back to earth dipsh*t
- Jul 12, 2003
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- AFL Club
- Carlton
Marcuz won easy.......Yze racks up his possessions in the back half......his disposal is nothing special.....if you play on the half back line you want to create some run like Chris Johnson, Rohan Smith, Sinclair...but Yze doesn't do that
Cheers
Bluemike
Cheers
Bluemike
Yes , that gaspar, throw some carpet down and watch him run. One of the funniest things i have ever seen was Gaspars effort two years ago v Essendon, where he ran around in circles and actually beat himself three times, quite an effort . Then for the backroom boys of Ch.9 to put the Benny Hill chase music to the " gas" making himself look the complete tool. All round classic comedy. That was the game " spud" directed richmond to go wide as a 12 goal humping was duly delivered.
Originally posted by Bluemike
Marcuz won easy.......Yze racks up his possessions in the back half......his disposal is nothing special.....if you play on the half back line you want to create some run like Chris Johnson, Rohan Smith, Sinclair...but Yze doesn't do that
Cheers
Bluemike
*sigh* Ooze has been in the leading group of disposals into the forward 50 for us for the last 5 years. At least one of those years I'm pretty sure he was in the top 5 or 10 in the comp. His running goals from the 50m arc are pretty good to watch as well, I don't mind peeps not rating him but at least make your arguements have some sort of connection with reality.
Yze or Johnson?
Good question, kind of. They are both midfielders and both key players at Melbourne and Essendon, but they are really different types of players. Yze is one of the most classiest and skillful players in the game when on his day. He has the ability to rack up possessions, has very good disposal, can kick goals and also play down back. He is not a hard nut, but a very good player indeed. 2003 was tainted by injuries and a not-so-good team, so it wasn't a stellar year for him. But if he can play 100% fit and in a decent team, then he will show his value as one of the leagues best again.
Jason Johnson is one of the best tough nuts in the league. His value to Essendon is huge. Like all players of his type, he shows aggression and spirit, wins the ball and is what every midfield needs. He has shown to break matches occasionally and just came off a great year. He is fairly young too and coupled with the fact that Essendon made the finals yet again, he would surely look like a better player than Yze. Hard nuts like Johnson is what every team needs, but players like Yze is what many times can't find. A true comparison of these players and any players really, should be taken once they have both finished their careers. At the moment, Johnson may look the better player, but Yze has had a great career with the exception of last year, and still has plenty left in the tank.
If Melbourne were to get Johnson, he would do wonders for us. If we lost Yze, we would be in even deeper ****. If Essendon got Yze, then they would be loving life. If they lost Johnson, they would be down and out. It comes down to what each team needs really.
Now on to the sub-topic, Neitz versus Llyod. Like the Yze - Johnson debate, you have to realise that Llyod is in a better team than Neitz is. I believe that if Neitz had played at Essendon his whole career instead of Llyod, he would have a fair chance of scoring even more goals than Llyod has. Since 2002 when he became a full-time full forward, Neitz has kicked about 150 goals in a good-then-bad team. Neitz suffered from a lack of other forward options and an often sloppy midfield in 2003. Service to him was poor and he was usually guarded by two or sometimes three defenders. Our one dimensional game plan made it easier to stop him for opposition defences. He was also the captain so he had a huge burden on his shoulders. He did crack about half way through the season, but what do you expect. Considering all this, 65 goals was a great achievement. In 2002, we saw what he can do when playing in a good team. 80 odd goals helped us almost reach the preliminary finals and win himself the Coleman Medal. I doubt Llyod would have been able to do much better in the situation. Prior to 2002, Neitz has constantly moved back and forward, playing in inconsistant teams with a lack of KPP, in a bid to cover up our weaknesses. He has never really been given the opportunity to play to his strengths because of the clubs weaknesses. So when comparing goal kicking statistics, obviously Llyod is going to have a better one. But you have to realise that Llyod has had a much more fortunate career than Neitz. Individually, they are both great forwards. Llyod is an excellent mark and an even better kick. He is smart and knows where to lead and where to run and has great precision. Neitz is a mountain of a man who is great one on one and almost unstoppable on the lead. He has a booming kick, probably not as accurate as Llyod, but the gap between the two isn't too big. Neitz can play down back as well, which is a bonus. But at the moment that isn't required from a team perspective. Many will say Llyod is better, but if you have a closer look into it, it is really 50-50.
Good question, kind of. They are both midfielders and both key players at Melbourne and Essendon, but they are really different types of players. Yze is one of the most classiest and skillful players in the game when on his day. He has the ability to rack up possessions, has very good disposal, can kick goals and also play down back. He is not a hard nut, but a very good player indeed. 2003 was tainted by injuries and a not-so-good team, so it wasn't a stellar year for him. But if he can play 100% fit and in a decent team, then he will show his value as one of the leagues best again.
Jason Johnson is one of the best tough nuts in the league. His value to Essendon is huge. Like all players of his type, he shows aggression and spirit, wins the ball and is what every midfield needs. He has shown to break matches occasionally and just came off a great year. He is fairly young too and coupled with the fact that Essendon made the finals yet again, he would surely look like a better player than Yze. Hard nuts like Johnson is what every team needs, but players like Yze is what many times can't find. A true comparison of these players and any players really, should be taken once they have both finished their careers. At the moment, Johnson may look the better player, but Yze has had a great career with the exception of last year, and still has plenty left in the tank.
If Melbourne were to get Johnson, he would do wonders for us. If we lost Yze, we would be in even deeper ****. If Essendon got Yze, then they would be loving life. If they lost Johnson, they would be down and out. It comes down to what each team needs really.
Now on to the sub-topic, Neitz versus Llyod. Like the Yze - Johnson debate, you have to realise that Llyod is in a better team than Neitz is. I believe that if Neitz had played at Essendon his whole career instead of Llyod, he would have a fair chance of scoring even more goals than Llyod has. Since 2002 when he became a full-time full forward, Neitz has kicked about 150 goals in a good-then-bad team. Neitz suffered from a lack of other forward options and an often sloppy midfield in 2003. Service to him was poor and he was usually guarded by two or sometimes three defenders. Our one dimensional game plan made it easier to stop him for opposition defences. He was also the captain so he had a huge burden on his shoulders. He did crack about half way through the season, but what do you expect. Considering all this, 65 goals was a great achievement. In 2002, we saw what he can do when playing in a good team. 80 odd goals helped us almost reach the preliminary finals and win himself the Coleman Medal. I doubt Llyod would have been able to do much better in the situation. Prior to 2002, Neitz has constantly moved back and forward, playing in inconsistant teams with a lack of KPP, in a bid to cover up our weaknesses. He has never really been given the opportunity to play to his strengths because of the clubs weaknesses. So when comparing goal kicking statistics, obviously Llyod is going to have a better one. But you have to realise that Llyod has had a much more fortunate career than Neitz. Individually, they are both great forwards. Llyod is an excellent mark and an even better kick. He is smart and knows where to lead and where to run and has great precision. Neitz is a mountain of a man who is great one on one and almost unstoppable on the lead. He has a booming kick, probably not as accurate as Llyod, but the gap between the two isn't too big. Neitz can play down back as well, which is a bonus. But at the moment that isn't required from a team perspective. Many will say Llyod is better, but if you have a closer look into it, it is really 50-50.
- Banned
- #116
the great man is here to restore order!!
and I am gonna be un-biased here
JAson Johnson and Adem yze are both top footballers, I wouldnt mind JJ at the Demons, he is a as tough as ****. And that is his greatest strength
is he better than Ooozze? Hell no. Only Adem Yze can have a crappy 2003 and still average over 20 possessions a game.His 2002 was brilliant, 2001 almost as good, and he should have won the B and F in 2000 ahead of Woey. On his day he will tear you to shreds.
Its funny how many people say JJ is a beter player because he is 'harder'. Ok, so I guess Rhett Bighlands is a better player than Chris Judd? wake up to yourselves people!
Adem Yze is as polished as they come. Best part about it, he doesnt even seek the media attention. If he was playing for the Pies, Blues, Port.. etc he would be hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
GO OOZE!
and I am gonna be un-biased here
JAson Johnson and Adem yze are both top footballers, I wouldnt mind JJ at the Demons, he is a as tough as ****. And that is his greatest strength
is he better than Ooozze? Hell no. Only Adem Yze can have a crappy 2003 and still average over 20 possessions a game.His 2002 was brilliant, 2001 almost as good, and he should have won the B and F in 2000 ahead of Woey. On his day he will tear you to shreds.
Its funny how many people say JJ is a beter player because he is 'harder'. Ok, so I guess Rhett Bighlands is a better player than Chris Judd? wake up to yourselves people!
Adem Yze is as polished as they come. Best part about it, he doesnt even seek the media attention. If he was playing for the Pies, Blues, Port.. etc he would be hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
GO OOZE!
- Banned
- #117
couldnt have said it better myself. No doubt some will disagree, but that would be because they know nothing about footy
You forgot to mention that Neitz was an All Australian CHB
Another advantage he has over the Velvet Sledgehammer - he is an immovable rock down in the backline
I actually agree completely ...... 100 in 19 is better than 110 in 24 games, but it still IMO doesn't devalue the 110 goals and make it a false Century just because he took a bit longer to get there...
But even you have to agree that the way footy is played these days and the fact that Clubs are LESS reliant one one Focal Forward, 100 goals in even 25 games is a good average
About as Unbiased as you can get YM
Terry Wallace Made a Career out of 20+ Possies a game ...... Look where it got him
Both are standout Midfield players but play different styles.....
No doubting Yze is all class but JJ goes and gets the harder ones a Bit more IMO
Originally posted by dodgey
But even you have to agree that the way footy is played these days and the fact that Clubs are LESS reliant one one Focal Forward, 100 goals in even 25 games is a good average
Ibeeza say something nice about Essendon - dream on. You can;t use logic with Ibeeza as that would be illogical.
To be honest i wouldn say it was a great year for JJ, he was down on both disposels and tackles from his last 3 years.
He kicked less goals. he did take a few more marks though.
Average possies/tackles 2000: 19.8/2.3
Average possies/tackles 2001: 21.9/2.6
Average possies/tackles 2002: 21.6/3.4
Average possies/tackles 2003: 19.6/2.2
so yeah it wasnt his best year.
He kicked less goals. he did take a few more marks though.
Average possies/tackles 2000: 19.8/2.3
Average possies/tackles 2001: 21.9/2.6
Average possies/tackles 2002: 21.6/3.4
Average possies/tackles 2003: 19.6/2.2
so yeah it wasnt his best year.
Originally posted by dodgey
I actually agree completely ...... 100 in 19 is better than 110 in 24 games, but it still IMO doesn't devalue the 110 goals and make it a false Century just because he took a bit longer to get there...
But even you have to agree that the way footy is played these days and the fact that Clubs are LESS reliant one one Focal Forward, 100 goals in even 25 games is a good average
Completely agree! In this day and age any 100 is a great achievement.
But like I had mentioned earlier, 99 in one innings and 1 in the next doesn't make a Test century, even though the achievement of making those runs is worth noting.
Feel the Heater
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Originally posted by marcuz
You got pants'd. You put up no logical argument to anything and anything that slightly resembled an arguable point was shot down quicker than the iraqi air force.
Neitz is better than Lloyd
Yze is better than johnson
And you gave me a lesson in posting.
Give us a bell when you get back to earth dipsh*t
No logical argument? How could you see logic in anything that suggests that a team, a player or anything for that matter is better than the bumbers. Maybe unbiased and objective AFL fans see logic in my points. But it's your bumber tinted glasses Marcuz that don't allow you to see it.
I have only stated:
Neitz is closer to Lloyd than you think
Yze and JJ are completely different players, can't say JJ's better
Everytime you post arrogant, biased bumber bullshyte you embarrass yourself.
I never left earth pal.
You wanna know what illogical is? A name like Pevers-Legend. A very average footballer with limited skills is hardly a legend. Just shows you have no idea when it comes to recognising talent in this league.
Maybe something like Coughlan-Legend would be more appropriate.
Feel the Heater
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- Dec 11, 2003
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Now we have established you as a war-mongering dog beater. You make this far too easy for me.
