Coach Richmond under Adem Yze

[Taper]

Nah, that’s a wowser view.

He’s had to build a new team and plan with a massively crippled list this year. Judging him on 2024 is just unrealistic.

Primus was in a similar boat at Port, but history suggests he was judged harshly and would have done better than Hinkley if he had access to the same resources.
Primus only lasted two years.

Watters at St Kilda is another good comparison to Yze at Richmond, as Watters arrived at the Saints after Lyon had cooked the list meaning he was on a hiding to nothing.
Watters only lasted two years.

 

[Rich01]

Primus was in a similar boat at Port, but history suggests he was judged harshly and would have done better than Hinkley if he had access to the same resources.
Primus only lasted two years.

Watters at St Kilda is another good comparison to Yze at Richmond, as Watters arrived at the Saints after Lyon had cooked the list meaning he was on a hiding to nothing.
Watters only lasted two years.

Nah, you’ve ignored the situation and looked purely at short term statistical results to make an assessment.

You’d fit in well at Fox Sports or Herald Sun.

 

[Taper]

Nah, you’ve ignored the situation and looked purely at short term statistical results to make an assessment.

You’d fit in well at Fox Sports or Herald Sun.

Do you think Yze can survive into 2026 if Richmond have another bad year in 2025?

 

[tiger_tough]

Do you think Yze can survive into 2026 if Richmond have another bad year in 2025?

Yes. This year is a mulligan for obvious reasons.

 

[juss]

Depends what players leave as well. If Baker, Rioli, Graham, Martin all go then next year won't be that easy. It would probably mean the injuries this year helped us, as we shouldn't get worse if all the injured players come back in. We will have also hit the draft hard for the first time in a long time so atleast there will be new talented players to watch.

Graham won't be best 22 next year, he's probably already easily replacable if everyone was available.

Baker, Rioli and Martin would be big losses, but the net overall gain if we had a more reasonable run with injury is I think we could still replace them.

The pass/fail isn't to win a flag or make finals next year, it'll be for continued improvement and development, but I can easily see us winning more games and being more competitive with a better injury run and the long term benefits of the development this year, and ultimately the very strong draft hand we're likely to acquire.

 

[juss]

Do you think Yze can survive into 2026 if Richmond have another bad year in 2025?

100%.

We haven't brought him in with 2 years in mind.
As others have said, this year is a complete write off for many reasons outside his control.

Next year we expect to improve, but there's no requirement for him to make finals in 2025. He does need time to implement his vision, playing style and list changes that he wants. You can't do that without a bit of stability and he's had almost none so far, in terms of playing personel, change in recruiter, CEO leaving end of this year.

He's almost certain to be the coach in 2026 regardless of next year, such was the horror of 2024 that couldn't really be predicted.

We'll be able to make more of an assesment in 2025 and 2026 however, and then guided by that we'll see what 2027 and beyond looks like. If we incrementally improve each year he will be safe, the only time his gig would be in jeopardy is if we have a fit and healthy (relatively speaking) list in the coming 2 years, and we're bottom 4 for both of them. Then I'd expect he might be the one that doesn't survive the rebuild, but if we went 3 wins this year, 5+ the year after and 8+ the year after that, he's fine.

 

[Rich01]

Do you think Yze can survive into 2026 if Richmond have another bad year in 2025?

Depends what you define ‘bad’ as.
If he decides that partial to full rebuild is required and we lose 6 or more of Prestia, Grimes, Broad, Baker, Rioli, Pickett, Mackintosh and Martin then we are bereft of experience and I wouldn’t expect us to be close to contending for top 8.

However if he holds on to all these guys he’s obviously looking to maximise their experience to squeeze as much as he can out of a list that needs rejuvenation. I doubt this would be the case.

So assuming he retires a good portion of the above at the end of this year, what in your view is a pass mark for a list that needs an injection of talent after three flags? And what would abject failure look like in this scenario?

‘Bad’ for me would be playing guys like Macintosh, Grimes and Pickett going for the win over putting games into Ralphsmith, Clarke and Brown.

 

[Grrr]

Depends what players leave as well. If Baker, Rioli, Graham, Martin all go then next year won't be that easy. It would probably mean the injuries this year helped us, as we shouldn't get worse if all the injured players come back in. We will have also hit the draft hard for the first time in a long time so atleast there will be new talented players to watch.

Losing Rioli would be really tough if it happens, gun. Baker, good player but would be rewarded. Dusty will be 33 so no big deal as he deserves whatever he wants, and Graham will not be best 22 this year much less next. There will be more than that leaving as well you'd think.

 

[BF Tiger]

I keep hearing this but it's wrong.

There were many significant absences in the Sydney game too, which is what made the result/performance so wild.

Martin, Lynch (mid-game), Prestia, Grimes, Gibcus, Broad, Trezise and Graham.

Broad played. Lynch played 82% game time and kicked three goals.

You have Trezise down as a significant miss, when if he'd play he'd have increased his career games tally by 50%.

+/-16 of 23 were automatic selections even if we had a full list.

 

[Mr Meow]

Broad played. Lynch played 82% game time and kicked three goals.

You have Trezise down as a significant miss, when if he'd play he'd have increased his career games tally by 50%.

+/-16 of 23 were automatic selections even if we had a full list.

Yeah someone else corrected me on Broad.

Losing a gun player (Lynch) at any stage hurts.

I thought Trezise played well when selected.

Martin and Prestia both being out was a significant hit. Graham is the type of good depth that was important for the flags.

Gibcus the young gun KPD and Grimes the experienced one.

Just because the injury list is worse now doesn't mean that was Richmond practically flying at full strength. Carlton had a similar injury list for a while and their supporters acted as if it was the end of the world. If you go back to the Carlton/Sydney match game day threads you would find RFC supporters complaining about those injury lists.

But I'm not going to defend Richmond being depleted in that game any longer. If you guys think it was full strength, then it was full strength! Any similar injury list in the coming years and I'll be reminding you that injuries/absentees are in no way an excuse. You need a round 9-12 style Richmond injury list for it to matter.

 

[BF Tiger]

Yeah someone else corrected me on Broad.

Losing a gun player (Lynch) at any stage hurts.

I thought Trezise played well when selected.

Martin and Prestia both being out was a significant hit. Graham is the type of good depth that was important for the flags.

Gibcus the young gun KPD and Grimes the experienced one.

Just because the injury list is worse now doesn't mean that was Richmond practically flying at full strength. Carlton had a similar injury list for a while and their supporters acted as if it was the end of the world. If you go back to the Carlton/Sydney match game day threads you would find RFC supporters complaining about those injury lists.

But I'm not going to defend Richmond being depleted in that game any longer. If you guys think it was full strength, then it was full strength! Any similar injury list in the coming years and I'll be reminding you that injuries/absentees are in no way an excuse. You need a round 9-12 style Richmond injury list for it to matter.

It wasn't full strength, but it was close to it. After three games into a season is any team actually a full-strength best 22? As I said I think we had 16 definite and known best 22 players out there, which means I wasn't counting Lefau or Brown or others who we might be thinking are best 22 now.

Lynch got hurt with minutes left IIRC. The big hits were Prestia and Martin, but (as we're told very often) they're not the players they used to be. Graham is (IMHO) a solid role player, and would be best 22 but covered reasonably well when not out.

Put it this way... I'd much rather have had our round 3 side v Sydney out on the park in every round since. Even better if we could add Martin and/or Prestia in to it.

 

[Cleansweep17]

2 spoons in a row means Yze is under pressure. Media turns on coaches very quick and I’m not 100% confident RFC would stick fat with him. We generally don’t with coaches.

 

[Taper]

Depends what you define ‘bad’ as.
If he decides that partial to full rebuild is required and we lose 6 or more of Prestia, Grimes, Broad, Baker, Rioli, Pickett, Mackintosh and Martin then we are bereft of experience and I wouldn’t expect us to be close to contending for top 8.

However if he holds on to all these guys he’s obviously looking to maximise their experience to squeeze as much as he can out of a list that needs rejuvenation. I doubt this would be the case.

So assuming he retires a good portion of the above at the end of this year, what in your view is a pass mark for a list that needs an injection of talent after three flags? And what would abject failure look like in this scenario?

‘Bad’ for me would be playing guys like Macintosh, Grimes and Pickett going for the win over putting games into Ralphsmith, Clarke and Brown.

Bad is bottom 4, take it from someone who supports a club that hasn't finished bottom 4 since 1986.
Richmond have a lot of experience on the park tonight including 11 premiership players, their older blokes are still capable of good footy - the question marks are in regards to their youth.

Another thing, it's worth noting that Richmond haven't sacked a coach in a quarter of a century so I don't see them pulling the trigger on Yze.
I know I compared Richmond's current situation to Port 2011-2012 where Primus was gone after just two years, but that was on field.

Off field situations totally different as Port were a complete basketcase drowning in a $10m+ debt, and struggling to attract sponsors.
This began to change when Koch arrived.
Richmond on the other hand are obviously a very strong club off field.

 

[HTPunter]

Forward pressure is huge.

Top sides still withstanding it (Geelong last week).

Mediocre sides wither (Adelaide).

They’ve got a bunch of kids doing it too. Awesome. Already got a Hardwick-esque list of “role players” - you name flag players like Townsend, Castagna, Rioli as a forward, McIntosh, Baker early in his career and see similarities with Campbell, Mansell, Ralphsmith etc.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Forward pressure is huge.

Top sides still withstanding it (Geelong last week).

Mediocre sides wither (Adelaide).

They’ve got a bunch of kids doing it too. Awesome. Already got a Hardwick-esque list of “role players” - you name flag players like Townsend, Castagna, Rioli as a forward, McIntosh, Baker early in his career and see similarities with Campbell, Mansell, Ralphsmith etc.

Problem is our KP stock are awful but Lefau. You can’t win games with just smalls.

Lefau/Sampson Ryan/Kozi are not Riewoldt/Lynch/Nank

Will be interesting to see who we draft.

 

[blaisee]

WTF is wrong with you Dude? Do you just argue for the sake of arguing? Every Richmond thread is polluted with you arguing with Tigs posters for the sake of arguing.

I have no idea why the ignore list function is not used more on this site

Feel free to copy mine.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yze will have at least 2 years to refresh the list. We all knew the cliff was coming, but Yze still has not had a chance to play his best 22 yet. The two games we gor the closest was the Carlton and Sydney games and they are the 2 that we were the most competitive.

Injuries have cruelled his season. Judge him when he hasn't got both hands tied behind his back...

I might of posted this earlier. I think Richmond have rebuilt at the right time.

When suns came into the comp in 2011 and had most of the 1st rounders in the 2010 draft, Richmond fans said that their squad was as bad as Fitzroy 1996 squad. No it wasn't.

Richmond drafted some good core players in the 2006-9 drafts.

I look at Richmonds current squad. It's bad but not totally hopelessly bad.

Tassie is coming into the comp in 2027 or 2028.

Tigers will take those early picks for this season and next season

 

[Freomaniac]

2 spoons in a row means Yze is under pressure. Media turns on coaches very quick and I’m not 100% confident RFC would stick fat with him. We generally don’t with coaches.

That's a myth about your club turfing coaches quickly. If Wer are talking between from 1981-87, I agree despite Tony Jewell coaching to your club from 1985-87.

Kevin Bartlett was there from 1988-91. He gave debut to key blokes like Brendon gale and Matty Knights.

And if We are talking from 2000 onwards, Danny Frawley was there from 2000-2004 , then Terry Wallace was there from 2005-9. Then Hardwick became tigers coach at the end of 2009 and the rest is history.

 

[Simche]

That's a myth about your club turfing coaches quickly. If Wer are talking between from 1981-87, I agree despite Tony Jewell coaching to your club from 1985-87.

Kevin Bartlett was there from 1988-91. He gave debut to key blokes like Brendon gale and Matty Knights.

And if We are talking from 2000 onwards, Danny Frawley was there from 2000-2004 , then Terry Wallace was there from 2005-9. Then Hardwick became tigers coach at the end of 2009 and the rest is history.

Yep spot on. I think Yze will see out his contract. Worst case they'll view him as stepping stone to improve the list but I don't think anyone at the club is expecting a two year turn around.

Frawley, Wallace and Hardwick all either saw out their contracts or left on their own terms. Walls and Gieschen were shown the door after a poor run of results and Northey left for more money/dispute with Board over contract renewal. From the early 90s it gets a bit ruthless/interesting but very much doubt modern business and the way contracts are managed these days would lead to a repeat of that sort of history at any club or professional organisation.

 

[Cleansweep17]

That's a myth about your club turfing coaches quickly. If Wer are talking between from 1981-87, I agree despite Tony Jewell coaching to your club from 1985-87.

Kevin Bartlett was there from 1988-91. He gave debut to key blokes like Brendon gale and Matty Knights.

And if We are talking from 2000 onwards, Danny Frawley was there from 2000-2004 , then Terry Wallace was there from 2005-9. Then Hardwick became tigers coach at the end of 2009 and the rest is history.

We wanted Hardwick gone in 2016 as well. We keep trying to shoot ourselves in the foot. Lucky we didn’t with Hardwick.

 

[Taper]

We wanted Hardwick gone in 2016 as well. We keep trying to shoot ourselves in the foot. Lucky we didn’t with Hardwick.

Do you think the turnaround with Hardwick at Richmond could be used as a template by Port when it comes to assessing Hinkley?

 

[Grockadoc]

Do you think the turnaround with Hardwick at Richmond could be used as a template by Port when it comes to assessing Hinkley?

Nah. Hardwick had at least tried to change game plans he knew didn't wodk come finals time (gameplan in 2016 was different from 2013-2015).

Hinkley is stubborn and won't change gameplans. He is unwilling to chabge thought processes.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Do you think the turnaround with Hardwick at Richmond could be used as a template by Port when it comes to assessing Hinkley?

I think Port should keep Hinkley. I don’t know of any obvious better replacements and these guys are in the premiership window atm. New coaches should generally be done when clubs are rebuilding unless something extraordinary happens.

 

[FreoGirl]

it's not really working out..

 

[Cleansweep17]

it's not really working out..

I think it’s going ok. His job this year was to really just play around and figure out what he’s got at his disposal.

I’m expecting a clean out at the end of the year.