Jordan Russell - Time to cut our losses?

[mac25]

Agree 100%.

Clearly Ratts and the MC see something in JR. It achieves absolutley nothing to constantly rag on about him and put him down. In fact, its counter productive. He'll play more games in the navy blue than I ever will.

Jumping all over the kid after yesterdays game is ludicrous and one eyed. He did some good things - and some bad. He's only 22 years old! Hell, if you were going to be critical of anyone after yesterdays game v the Hawks, Nick Stevens come on down. Clanger count through the roof. And for an older (experienced) bloke playing as an outside player, that's unacceptable. I was wincing every time he got his hands on it (and at those kick ins... shudder). That said (and to be fair) Stevo wasn't alone in putting in a sub-par performance.

Lets put these performances in perspective. Its the second round of the NAB cup FFS. The whole team played poorly - we were bent over and brutally romanced in the 1st quarter - and yet still managed to win.

Not quite sure what game you were watching yesterday, but Stevens was in our best five easily, he continually gets 25 touches per game and he is a proven performer, Russell averges his usual 10-15 touches with the usual volume of skill errors in these.

 

[Bluebear]

Russ found his niche last year as a hard running strong marking half forward flanker. Had his goal kicking been better he would be an automatic pick for our starting 22.

Last week vs Roos I thought Russ had fixed his kicking probs with some searing passes that were sensational.

He didn't re-produce that yesterday. Time will tell if his kicking has improved, but he should keep an eye on number 12. Russ will lose his spot to Robbo before then end of the year. Robbo runs as hard, is better in the air than Russ was (prior to last year) and is alredy a better kick.

Time is running out for Russ to turn into an A grade footballer.

He has turned himself from a "dud" into a "C" grade footballer, but he needs to improve his finishing to move up the scale into "B" grade and keep his spot long term.

 

[Malifice]

Not quite sure what game you were watching yesterday, but Stevens was in our best five easily, he continually gets 25 touches per game and he is a proven performer, Russell averges his usual 10-15 touches with the usual volume of skill errors in these.

Dude - Stevens was shocking in his disposal yesterday. Ill try and track down some stats to back it up, but watching his 25 odd possessions, he turned it over with at least 5 of them, and missed his target with 5 others. Plus gave over a few hospital passes. And his kick-ins were heart in mouth stuff (including overstepping the goal square).

He's a quality player and its early days for the season though so nothing really to worry about. Plus he wasn't alone in skill errors. I actually had Kade Simpson and Juddy in my best.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Russell's not great but he hasn't done enough wrong to be cut.

 

[Sublime]

Dude - Stevens was shocking in his disposal yesterday. Ill try and track down some stats to back it up, but watching his 25 odd possessions, he turned it over with at least 5 of them, and missed his target with 5 others. Plus gave over a few hospital passes. And his kick-ins were heart in mouth stuff (including overstepping the goal square).

He's a quality player and its early days for the season though so nothing really to worry about. Plus he wasn't alone in skill errors. I actually had Kade Simpson and Juddy in my best.

Alot of players were making uncharacteristic errors yesterday i felt. Stevens and Gibbs being the two i noticed the most. Gibbs was spraying some kicks 10-15 metres from the target which was odd to see. Fact is that this early in the year you can't take much from skill errors, regardless of the player, they're all making them.

 

[Malifice]

Alot of players were making uncharacteristic errors yesterday i felt. Stevens and Gibbs being the two i noticed the most. Gibbs was spraying some kicks 10-15 metres from the target which was odd to see. Fact is that this early in the year you can't take much from skill errors, regardless of the player, they're all making them.

Agree completely - Stevo just stood out for me more than the others. I'm sure he'd be the first to aknowledge it. But lets keep this in context - its understandable being the second competitive hit out for the year. And as a positive, we played poorly and still managed to put a 30 point deficit early in the second quarter behind us, rally and (against the reigning premiers) win.

Lets give all the players a bit of leeway at this time of the year. JR included.

 

[TorresIsGod]

Russ found his niche last year as a hard running strong marking half forward flanker. Had his goal kicking been better he would be an automatic pick for our starting 22.

Last week vs Roos I thought Russ had fixed his kicking probs with some searing passes that were sensational.

He didn't re-produce that yesterday. Time will tell if his kicking has improved, but he should keep an eye on number 12. Russ will lose his spot to Robbo before then end of the year. Robbo runs as hard, is better in the air than Russ was (prior to last year) and is alredy a better kick.

Time is running out for Russ to turn into an A grade footballer.

He has turned himself from a "dud" into a "C" grade footballer, but he needs to improve his finishing to move up the scale into "B" grade and keep his spot long term.

I'm fairly confident that #12 will be in the 22 come R1.

He's shown heaps in his first two games for the club, his attack on the ball is second to none, he doesn't mind taking a hit (or four), he's good in the air (as you've already covered), he can also find the goals (something which JR cannot do).

Whether or not his position in the 22 in R1 will come at the expense of JR, we'll have to see.

Let's not forget, JR was not in the team for R1 last season.

 

[celtic_pride]

Just on Nick Stevens, he had 26 possies at a 73 disposal effiency rate, which whilst not great, is heck of a lot better then Jordan Russell, 12 possies at 61 percent ...

Why do some fans have to come in and bring in other players (IE Nick Stevens or esp Andrew Carrazzo) in order to justfity their pro-JR stance, those two players have got the runs and credentials on board ..

If he plays like this next week against Geelong, he won't be playing in rnd 1 against Richmond (i'd like to think anyway)

What I find disturbing about the Match Committee is their unwillingness to drop JR after he puts a bad game (which is more often then not) compare that to someone like Bentick who tries his heart out, and is banished to preston for weeks on end if he puts in a shocker.

Fact is, I was very close to the action (As a spectator) where I saw first hand the mistakes he coughed up in the first quarter, and IMHO player mistakes and clangers are much more evident at Phone Dome, then at the MCG or even watching it on television.

Those errors JR made were very simple and harmed the team in the first quarter, and in that respect, the criticisms here are fair enough.
The bloke has no confidence right now in his game, he should spend a month at the Bullants in order to enjoy his football again and build up his confidence in a much less stressful environment and not be subjected to so much fan sledging at games.

 

[gbatman]

He can get the footy but his disposal is shocking. Especially handball. We had 6 out for the hawks game so I can't see him in the side for the home/away season.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Armfield and Garlett have gone past JR

They are completely different body types to start with, but that aside on what basis do you have for Garlett had gone past JR?

On yesterdays showing? You people need to get a grip.

Yesterday JR had 14 disposals 9 kicks 4 hp and 4 marks and an efficiency of 61.5% and had 1 1%er and 3 inside 50's, 2 centre clearances, 6 tackles (no one on the ground layed more tackles....thats right NO ONE!).

Yesterday JG had 7 disposals 7 kicks 0 hp 0 marks, 1 centre clearance, 1 1%er 4 inside 50's and a 57% efficiency, 3 tackles.

The week before:

JR had 15 disposals 9 kicks 9 hp and 9 marks and an efficiency of 86.7% and had 3 1%er and 2 inside 50's, 1 centre clearances, 0 tackles

JG had 11 disposals 9 kicks 2 hp 2 marks, 0 centre clearance, 0 1%er 3 inside 50's and a 27% efficiency, 3 tackles.

Is this the evidence you base your statement on? And all of this from 2 practice matches (and not a single, count em with me...zip senior game from JG) where we dont know the underlying game plan, ie does Ratts want to win or try things out etc as oposed to H&A where the objective is pretty clear even to all.

Is this the level of debate we are gonna have here? We should all have user names like Merino or BaaBaa or woolytail5 or Flocker2009.

For the record, I neither like or dislike JR, I neither like or dislike JG and for that matter I neither like or dislike Judd. It is the jumper, the team, the club I support, no one individual.

But when I discuss the relative merits of 1 player over another I like to stick to the facts not the herd.

 

[thylacine60]

I quite like BaaBaa.

 

[Team Mo']

Funny that ODN, I thought i was the only one...

Did you see Gibbs's absolutely terrible kick to know one in the last quarter? or the three backs who absolutely dominated by Roughy?

Was this the kick into the forward line that went out of bounds? Because this wasn't a bad kick: the only option was to bomb it long to Garlett or Betts (can't remember) who had two opponents on him. Gibbs being the smart player he is kicked it wider to keep the ball in the 50 for the next contest.

If it's a different kick the I'll be damned.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I quite like BaaBaa.

I think some of the posters should be called mother flockers......

 

[TorresIsGod]

Was this the kick into the forward line that went out of bounds? Because this wasn't a bad kick: the only option was to bomb it long to Garlett or Betts (can't remember) who had two opponents on him. Gibbs being the smart player he is kicked it wider to keep the ball in the 50 for the next contest.

If it's a different kick the I'll be damned.

I'm with you on that one Mo'.

Definitely meant to kick the ball out of bounds when he had no-one else to kick it to.

Smart play, we were outnumbered in the forward line and had a small forward down there, kick it out of play, wait for everyone else to get back down there, the balls in our FP and we'll see what happens from there.

 

[TorresIsGod]

They are completely different body types to start with, but that aside on what basis do you have for Garlett had gone past JR?

On yesterdays showing? You people need to get a grip.

Yesterday JR had 14 disposals 9 kicks 4 hp and 4 marks and an efficiency of 61.5% and had 1 1%er and 3 inside 50's, 2 centre clearances, 6 tackles (no one on the ground layed more tackles....thats right NO ONE!).

Yesterday JG had 7 disposals 7 kicks 0 hp 0 marks, 1 centre clearance, 1 1%er 4 inside 50's and a 57% efficiency, 3 tackles.

The week before:

JR had 15 disposals 9 kicks 9 hp and 9 marks and an efficiency of 86.7% and had 3 1%er and 2 inside 50's, 1 centre clearances, 0 tackles

JG had 11 disposals 9 kicks 2 hp 2 marks, 0 centre clearance, 0 1%er 3 inside 50's and a 27% efficiency, 3 tackles.

Is this the evidence you base your statement on? And all of this from 2 practice matches (and not a single, count em with me...zip senior game from JG) where we dont know the underlying game plan, ie does Ratts want to win or try things out etc as oposed to H&A where the objective is pretty clear even to all.

Is this the level of debate we are gonna have here? We should all have user names like Merino or BaaBaa or woolytail5 or Flocker2009.

For the record, I neither like or dislike JR, I neither like or dislike JG and for that matter I neither like or dislike Judd. It is the jumper, the team, the club I support, no one individual.

But when I discuss the relative merits of 1 player over another I like to stick to the facts not the herd.

Both of your sets of stats for JR don't add up.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Both of your sets of stats for JR don't add up.

Yes sorry, that should read 9 kicks 4 hp 13 disposals 4 marks against the Hawks, last week it was 15 disposals 9 kicks 6 hp 9 marks against NM.

Thanks for pointing it out. I had 3 different pages open and obviously lost my way. Where is the shepherd when you need him?

 

[TorresIsGod]

Yes sorry, that should read 9 kicks 4 hp 13 disposals 4 marks against the Hawks, last week it was 15 disposals 9 kicks 6 hp 9 marks against NM.

Thanks for pointing it out. I had 3 different pages open and obviously lost my way. Where is the shepherd when you need him?

Turning the ball over and gifting a goal to the opposition is my guess.

 

[BlueYoss]

Both of your sets of stats for JR don't add up.

Relieved that it wasn't just me, I re-read those stats 3 times just to be sure...

More relevant to the JR/JG comparison is how much time on the ground they had to accumulate those stats. From memory Garlett was a 'sub' for both games so far and would have spent much less time on the ground than JR.

 

[thylacine60]

Relieved that it wasn't just me, I re-read those stats 3 times just to be sure...

More relevant to the JR/JG comparison is how much time on the ground they had to accumulate those stats. From memory Garlett was a 'sub' for both games so far and would have spent much less time on the ground than JR.

Spot on, pie-eater.

 

[TorresIsGod]

But the only way Garlett can get on the ground is when Russell lays a shepherd on the guy down on the bench and Garlett can get past him onto the ground.

Without Russell, Garlett would be statless for two games.

 

[pansies]

Why would we blame Ratten and the MC for playing Russell all of last year. Not that I necessarily agree with them but I applude them for sticking to their principles and plan. They felt that a young player should be given time to fit in and gain confidence and become a good player. Not everyone can be like our triumvirate of number 1s. And go on them for having the guts to keep to their convictions. Too often young players are given limited opportunities and if they aren't taken almost immediately they are shown the door. However with all that in mind Russell is still making the same clangers over and over again. What is said of those who fail to learn from their mistakes?

Again this year we have a group of new recruits to add to our returning injured stars and developing young players who seem to not only be catching up but surpassing the questionable talent of JR. Do they not deserve the same opportunities that he was afforded. Everyone here is starting to get really excited with our new found depth. However much of that is untried but hopefully if all indications are correct then I could only imagine that Russell will be sacrificed to give the others a go if his form doesn't improve dramatically improve and will he then be able to get back in? I for one think not but if he does I hope it is due only to his form warranting it not someone else dropping their game or worse, injured.

 

[Dominator_7]

No one is questioning his ability to repeatedly do the 1 per centers... It's his constant butchering of the ball that most Carlton fans have an issue with... Again yesterday, his disposal efficiency was at 61%.. far too low for a supposed elite athlete...

 

[TorresIsGod]

No one is questioning his ability to repeatedly do the 1 per centers... It's his constant butchering of the ball that most Carlton fans have an issue with... Again yesterday, his disposal efficiency was at 61%.. far too low for a supposed elite athlete...

Are you sure you're not missing a decimal point in there?

.61% or 6.1% perhaps?

 

[deadoralive]

No one is questioning his ability to repeatedly do the 1 per centers... It's his constant butchering of the ball that most Carlton fans have an issue with... Again yesterday, his disposal efficiency was at 61%.. far too low for a supposed elite athlete...

one clanger in particular that stood out was the handball clanger at half forward where it went over the head of kade simpson in the first quarter, if it hits simmo, simmo scores the goal, it came down the other end and hawthorn immediately goaled from that turnover, it wasn't as if he missed by much either, it was at least three metres over his head. it's disappointing

 

[TorresIsGod]

one clanger in particular that stood out was the handball clanger at half forward where it went over the head of kade simpson in the first quarter, if it hits simmo, simmo scores the goal, it came down the other end and hawthorn immediately goaled from that turnover, it wasn't as if he missed by much either, it was at least three metres over his head. it's disappointing

Simmo wouldn't have reeled that in standing Hammer's shoulders if Hammer was standing on Warnock's shoulders.