Jordan Russell - Time to cut our losses?

[lily of laguna]

Seriously, the "holier than thou" attitude of some of the posters on this board is hilarious.

Is Robert Mugabe running this board?

Posters who despite being a minority - continue to spruik on about how you she be unconditionally supportive of the club, no matter what.

While this is true to an extent - as someone who loves the club, and wants to see the club head in the right direction both on and off the field - I have the right to voice an opinion on all things concerning (particuarly the former).

Is it unreasonable to expect a 4th year player to go in hard into a contest on a consistant basis?

Is it unreasonable to expect a 4th year player to be able to hit a target consistantly from 25 metres away?

Our performances over the last 5 or so years must have allowed some sort of culture to seep in where we are happy to settle for ineptness.

We all know by now you have little for regard for JR, no one is in the dark here!!!

Im just pointing out how foolish you look when you bag your own team!!

No one is settling for ineptness either, its just not constructive to continually bleat on about the same guy.

As for the last 5 years, Ive noticed that with losing matches some supporters have taken to bagging their teams players to ease their own embarrassment at losing and as such distancing themselves from the tradegies unfolding on the ground......

That sort of behaviour is just plain weak and gutless.

This is not "holier than thou" its just the way it is!!!

 

[lily of laguna]

Allow Dr. C4 to take this post apart:



LOL - as if you've never critisized a Carlton player's error at the football.

FACT: Football is a passionate game.



LOL 2 sets of rules? - thanks Captain Obvious: comparing JR's input week in, week out to the likes of Judd, Gibbs, Walker and Fev?

I think it's a know fact that JR is Carlton's official whipping boy (because the majority of supporters agree), why do you think that is? - we don't like his haircut?

The thing you need to understand is: Russell is a serial offender in terms of ineptness shown on the ground.

Of course people aren't going to be calling for Chris Judds head when he makes a mistake - because he contributes so much more than a few meagre disposals.



There's no maybe about it.

You are a dead set clown.

There is no personal agenda against JR - he is just very very average as a contributer to this side, and as such, comes under fire for it, as passionate supporters we have the right to voice our opinion about all things Carlton.

Don't like it? - move to Zimbabwe.



So someone who stands up and publically questions an aspect of the club, as opposed tosomeone who is a sapp and beleives that we shouldn't publically voice our dissaproval of the club and just leave it all be - according to you is a sheep ?

You havent stood up and done anything here, youve just typed some dribble behind your keyboard.

You just admitted you bag JR, who is the "whipping boy" as you put it!

Tough talk isnt it!!!

You still havent grasped the notion that the MC see something in JR that you are obviously missing, now why dont you go and have a long hard think about why he is still in the team.

If after careful deliberation you still cant work it out, why dont you go and do something brave about it "dr" and ask Ratts

 

[sosos]

hippy nympho soccer mums

You seriously cannot say such things as ^^ and expect this nation to recover from the current economic crisis.

 

[HARKER]

No one is settling for ineptness either, its just not constructive to continually bleat on about the same guy.

The fact that there is a post on this topic alone suggests that there are some serious supporter reservations on him.
The fact that there are 426 posts goes even further to suggest this.

I am in no position to make any amendments to our team from here, but must ask the question, "What do we see in Russell to keep him on our list"?

Match Committee won't tell me so can someone else?

 

[lily of laguna]

Exactly!


We marvel at Fevolas goalkicking at Judds clearances at Waites athleticism
and conversely pull our hair out at Russell's turnovers.
We just call it the way we see it.

I guess there will always be the hippy nympho soccer mums who would support their children irrespective of any crimes they may have committed.

I'd rather just call it as it is.

What about when those players dont do those things, im sure you feel disappointed but dont come on here and bleat on like you do with JR.

Thats not calling it as you see it!!!

Look the point is im not defending jr's playing ability, I just dont see the need to constantly look like a dill by bagging him.

 

[Alpha1]

The fact is that JR has had 4 years to improve his kicking skills. We will get hammered by the good teams if you skills continue to be so crap. JR is not the only one Carrazzo is another one, and a few others. Carrazzo & JR have been on our list for a long time now and they haven't improved the most basic of skills, then it's time to cut our loses. If we are going to become a great unit we can't have people turning the ball over every time they get it. Whats the point of getting 40 possesions if half of them go straight back to the opposition?.

 

[HARKER]

What about when those players dont do those things, im sure you feel disappointed but dont come on here and bleat on like you do with JR.

Thats not calling it as you see it!!!

Look the point is im not defending jr's playing ability, I just dont see the need to constantly look like a dill by bagging him.

Who's bagging Russell?
We are just bagging his output on the field.

We will always have players that may be great guys, train the house down, be supportive of team mates and have the ability to be anything:
But then comes match day and it all falls apart.

This is just the way I see Russell

 

[sherb]

Posters who despite being a minority - continue to spruik on about how you she be unconditionally supportive of the club, no matter what.

I will support the players who take the field. And I will support the club. And I have no problems criticizing the club or players if they make mistakes - in an objective, balanced fashion.

However - unlike a number of posters here - I don't turn criticisms of certain players into (to varying degrees) nasty, petty, unpleasant, obsessive, hateful little vendettas, where there is little balance, little objectivity and seemingly just plain out spite.

Being a member of this board has been a real eye-opener for me as an interstate supporter. The sheer unpleasantness of some posters at times towards their own club and certain players is breathtaking. It goes way beyond reasonable criticism.

As I implied to another poster earlier, if you are so critical of Russell you must by definition also be critical of Ratten, as he keeps picking him in the side. You could at least show some consistency on this matter and slag off at Ratten (and the match committee) as well. Or do you think JR selects himself in the side each week?

 

[celtic_pride]

I'm convinced more then ever JR has some 'dirt' on the match committee or people in the club that keeps him on the list and the side ..

Certainly it's hard to imagine him playing these many games at anothe club.
Yes if you going to go down that track, yes I am a bit critical for Ratten and MC for 'clearly' rewarding mediocrity ..

Why JR hasn't had an extended stint at Cramer St has me beat.
Can someone (the JR Fans) honestly give us some legit, honest reasons why he still deserves positive 'support' (and don't give me this drivel that he is a Carlton player and shouldn't be criticised)

BTW Sherb, I would suggest you stay away from the outer at Carlton games in Melbourne (when you go to another one) there are far more anti-Russell fans there, and I can assure you, the sledging he gets from the fans there is far worse then the comments here ...

One last thing, C4 was actually constructive and realistic in his criticism of JR, explained his poor footskills and 'squibbing' it against Mcgylnn etc.

Also Fev and Judd and Gibbs etc, all have runs on the board, JR has a massive debt of clangers and 'shocking' games racked up against him, and as such, that is a reason why he is heavily criticised.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

As I implied to another poster earlier, if you are so critical of Russell you must by definition also be critical of Ratten, as he keeps picking him in the side. You could at least show some consistency on this matter and slag off at Ratten (and the match committee) as well. Or do you think JR selects himself in the side each week?

As simplistic as it sounds:

*Ratten didn't shirk the contest against Ben McGlynn, and

*Ratten didn't miss the targets 25 metres away.

JR can find the pill - he just can't use it effectively, however I will admit that I'm mystified as to how he is made to earn his place in the squad each and every week.

 

[lily of laguna]

Who's bagging Russell?
We are just bagging his output on the field.

We will always have players that may be great guys, train the house down, be supportive of team mates and have the ability to be anything:
But then comes match day and it all falls apart.

This is just the way I see Russell

This comment would be fair if the comments made of JR were balanced and not so petty, if you are not guilty of this then my apologies Harker.

 

[sherb]

As simplistic as it sounds:

*Ratten didn't shirk the contest against Ben McGlynn, and

*Ratten didn't miss the targets 25 metres away.

JR can find the pill - he just can't use it effectively, however I will admit that I'm mystified as to how he is made to earn his place in the squad each and every week.

Don't dodge the question C4. It is one I have asked of others as well and never received an answer to.

How can you possibly have confidence in a coach who continues to select a player you regard so poorly? Why don't you direct as much of your criticism towards him as you do towards Russell?

Or is Russell the easier target because he has so many other critics as well?

You can't have it both ways.

 

[sherb]

BTW Sherb, I would suggest you stay away from the outer at Carlton games in Melbourne (when you go to another one) there are far more anti-Russell fans there, and I can assure you, the sledging he gets from the fans there is far worse then the comments here ...

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep that in mind. If I do get down to Melbourne to see a game, I'd like to make it an enjoyable experience.

I am as passionate as anyone when supporting the club, but I like to retain my dignity when doing so. It sounds like I would be out of place in the outer.

 

[The BHB]

Since Brett Ratten JR has been our most improved player bar none! For this reason he is the player I watch with most satisfaction.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Seriously, the "holier than thou" attitude of some of the posters on this board is hilarious.

Is Robert Mugabe running this board?

Not at all. Would you like him to?

My only issue is when people latch on to a bone and repeat it over and over in the same thread because someone dared to have an opposing view.

There are a few posters whose opinions are well known. New day, new thread and the opinion is restated. Fair enough. Why then when someone disagrees do they return to shout down that person using the same words they used before?

I just think to further a debate, you must produce further evidence. Specific examples, a play by play analysis, a comparison to teammates etc etc.

This whole, 'he must have incriminating photos' stuff is ridiculous and counter productive.

Both sides should have their say and move on unless they have something value adding to the discussion IMO.

 

[Malifice]

Not at all. Would you like him to?

My only issue is when people latch on to a bone and repeat it over and over in the same thread because someone dared to have an opposing view.

There are a few posters whose opinions are well known. New day, new thread and the opinion is restated. Fair enough. Why then when someone disagrees do they return to shout down that person using the same words they used before?

I just think to further a debate, you must produce further evidence. Specific examples, a play by play analysis, a comparison to teammates etc etc.

This whole, 'he must have incriminating photos' stuff is ridiculous and counter productive.

Both sides should have their say and move on unless they have something value adding to the discussion IMO.

Agree 100%.

Clearly Ratts and the MC see something in JR. It achieves absolutley nothing to constantly rag on about him and put him down. In fact, its counter productive. He'll play more games in the navy blue than I ever will.

Jumping all over the kid after yesterdays game is ludicrous and one eyed. He did some good things - and some bad. He's only 22 years old! Hell, if you were going to be critical of anyone after yesterdays game v the Hawks, Nick Stevens come on down. Clanger count through the roof. And for an older (experienced) bloke playing as an outside player, that's unacceptable. I was wincing every time he got his hands on it (and at those kick ins... shudder). That said (and to be fair) Stevo wasn't alone in putting in a sub-par performance.

Lets put these performances in perspective. Its the second round of the NAB cup FFS. The whole team played poorly - we were bent over and brutally romanced in the 1st quarter - and yet still managed to win.

 

[BlueYoss]

Wait until Gilly gets online. He's Wayne Hughes' biggest fan here on BF.

Edit

His disposal and decision making tonight was just plain shocking....having said that he does everything right up until he gets the ball stole a few disposals tonight from his pressure on opponents.

Hawthorn's pressure was fantastic early which led to most of our turnovers, he definitely wasn't alone tonight. I don't think Stevens hit a target all night.

If this form continues in the season proper you would suspect he'd be sent to the ants for a stint. Only early boys...still only a glorified practise match

Spot on BB.

I have said many times on here (and even to JR's face) that I think he's one of our best players when the ball is not in his hands.

When you consider what a minute proportion of game time the ball spends in any given player's hands, you're left with some 90%+ of time on the ground during which JR is one of our better players, which is why the match committee continue to select him.

His decision making and disposal still leaves much to be desired and really is inexcusable at this level after as many years in the system as he has had which makes him one of the most frustrating players to watch. He works so hard off the ball, bumping and knocking opposition players and doing the team things for so long and then when we finally do force the turnover, if we use him to link up through while moving the ball back across the ground to our forward line he tends to kick it right back to the opposition (undoing all of his and the rest of our players' hard work) way too often.

He will either overcome his confidence issues which hamper his decision making and disposal or our newfound (and seemingly ever-increasing) depth of players who make the right decisions and hit targets under pressure more often than not will quickly start to push him down the pecking order to Preston.

 

[HBF]

I will support the players who take the field. And I will support the club. And I have no problems criticizing the club or players if they make mistakes - in an objective, balanced fashion.

However - unlike a number of posters here - I don't turn criticisms of certain players into (to varying degrees) nasty, petty, unpleasant, obsessive, hateful little vendettas, where there is little balance, little objectivity and seemingly just plain out spite.

Being a member of this board has been a real eye-opener for me as an interstate supporter. The sheer unpleasantness of some posters at times towards their own club and certain players is breathtaking. It goes way beyond reasonable criticism.

As I implied to another poster earlier, if you are so critical of Russell you must by definition also be critical of Ratten, as he keeps picking him in the side. You could at least show some consistency on this matter and slag off at Ratten (and the match committee) as well. Or do you think JR selects himself in the side each week?

I'm at a loss as to why the club continually play JR week in, week out. Could it be that they want him to build his confidence in the Carlton team, and not be dropped back to the Bullants. Or it could be that they feel he is too good for the Bullants, and just needs to be persisted with in the Carlton team. Or, it could just be that they feel he is in our best 22 each week.

My argument about JR has always been the same - since he plays HF, he should be able to kick goals from 40m. The fact is, for someone with very good skills around the ground (mostly), his kicking for goal is a disgrace.

We know that players don't always hit targets - it's just part of the game, and the pressure that the opposition apply. I just feel with JR that his turnovers directly result in an opposition shot on goal more than most, and some are just very basic skill errors, like handballing over the head of teammates.

And, some players have bad weeks, and then follow it up next week with a good one. JR doesn't seem to be able to do this.

 

[lily of laguna]

Edit



Spot on BB.

I have said many times on here (and even to JR's face) that I think he's one of our best players when the ball is not in his hands.

When you consider what a minute proportion of game time the ball spends in any given player's hands, you're left with some 90%+ of time on the ground during which JR is one of our better players, which is why the match committee continue to select him.

His decision making and disposal still leaves much to be desired and really is inexcusable at this level after as many years in the system as he has had which makes him one of the most frustrating players to watch. He works so hard off the ball, bumping and knocking opposition players and doing the team things for so long and then when we finally do force the turnover, if we use him to link up through while moving the ball back across the ground to our forward line he tends to kick it right back to the opposition (undoing all of his and the rest of our players' hard work) way too often.

He will either overcome his confidence issues which hamper his decision making and disposal or our newfound (and seemingly ever-increasing) depth of players who make the right decisions and hit targets under pressure more often than not will quickly start to push him down the pecking order to Preston.

What a great post!!

Agree with the intelligent summary here BY

 

[thylacine60]

JR gets dropped it will be akin to a delisting regardless of his contract status.

 

[len_jet]

One word response to the title of this thread...

Yes...

There have been enough excuses listed throughout this thread which more than justify dropping him.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I really should have made a poll on this thread.

 

[thylacine60]

I barely acknowledge threads without polls.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I barely acknowledge threads without polls.

I acknowledge Poles without threads.

 

[BlueWorld]

I'm at a loss as to why the club continually play JR week in, week out. Could it be that they want him to build his confidence in the Carlton team, and not be dropped back to the Bullants. Or it could be that they feel he is too good for the Bullants, and just needs to be persisted with in the Carlton team. Or, it could just be that they feel he is in our best 22 each week.

My argument about JR has always been the same - since he plays HF, he should be able to kick goals from 40m. The fact is, for someone with very good skills around the ground (mostly), his kicking for goal is a disgrace.

We know that players don't always hit targets - it's just part of the game, and the pressure that the opposition apply. I just feel with JR that his turnovers directly result in an opposition shot on goal more than most, and some are just very basic skill errors, like handballing over the head of teammates.

And, some players have bad weeks, and then follow it up next week with a good one. JR doesn't seem to be able to do this.

Is he currently in our best 22? Last year we had injuries to guys like Walker & Houlihan which might have kept him in. We now have Yarran, Robinson, ?Garlett. We have 5-6 out atm and are playing 26. He starts on bench each week and so we'll see come Round 1 when 22 only and a few likely to be back.