Josh Fraser & the great ruck debate

[the expert 1]

Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace

Nothing new about today. Josh has been performing like this for the last 6 years. Posssibly played about 6 good games in the last 6 years.

The thing that the club never learned is that you should never recruit ruckmen who lack physical presence. Josh was bad enough in this aspect, but to then go and waste a number 14 pick on Wood, who has the same deficiency, it is easy to understand why we have 1 premiership in 50 years.

SO we call for Fraser to be dropped.....and bring in Wood??????? IMO, no difference either way.

You guys have no idea. Fraser has survived in a high pressure environment for a number of years. Malthouse and his assistants know what they are doing. The Jamar thing makes him look bad because the commentators were all over it. At the end of the day he is much maligned so how about focussing on other Pie players and who the outs were and how good Melbourne is.

 

[mattys123]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

How did you rate Jolly's game?

Thought he was very average as well.

I thought Jolly's game was "average", and the stats show that.

18 hitouts, 9 disposals, 5 marks, just average and the minimum from what we expect from the big man.

One thing, we would have lost without Jolly out there today, he set up the Lockyer goal after all.

Jamar was better though, no doubt, but a lot of his touches were on Fraser.

 

[Frankie23]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Fraser was disgraceful.

I can accept a bad game, a bad pass, a dropped mark etc. But when a player doesn't do a simple thing like tracking his man into the forward line is a sign of a lack of heart, passion and is unacceptable.

He has to go, he cost us the game.

 

[Impromptu]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

How did you rate Jolly's game?

Thought he was very average as well.

Jolly wasn't great but I think he just passed..

In the 4th quarter, point, goal and goal assist to draw the game....

Fraser wasn't good

 

[greening22]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

I don't want to get drawn into the negativity, but he looked uninterested and lethargic.

He wasn't the only one that let the team down though.

I am going to buy into total negativity and say that Josh Fraser should never wear a Collingwood jumper again. He is totally gutless and does not put any physical pressure on the opposition. He never takes a contested mark and he does not put any goal-scoring pressure on the opposition. As Dermot Brereton said on te SEN tonight, he was very disappointing! End of story. I would play either Cameron Wood for every game for the rest of the year, or alternatively play Leigh Brown and Chris Dawes as a combination of back-up ruckmen and/or key forwards. But never, never, never, never, ever again Fraser!!!!!!! He is the most gutless player I have seen weat a Collingwood jumper in the last decade if not longer!

 

[notorious_zhang]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

I thought Jolly's game was "average", and the stats show that.

18 hitouts, 9 disposals, 5 marks, just average and the minimum from what we expect from the big man.

One thing, we would have lost without Jolly out there today, he set up the Lockyer goal after all.

Jamar was better though, no doubt, but a lot of his touches were on Fraser.

18 hitouts and I wonder how many of them were actually effective...

 

[Art Corvelay]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Has given nothing all year. Doubly frustrating when you consider his best game ever wasn't even for us, but the Vics At this stage I'd rather see L. Brown play backup ruck to Jolly. Say what you want about L. Brown but at least he's looks like he cares.

Reckon recruiting Jolly has given Josh a fair whack to his pride and he doesn't know how to get through it. Fraser and Wood have both been very, very disappointing this year.

 

[notorious_zhang]

Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace

You guys have no idea. Fraser has survived in a high pressure environment for a number of years. Malthouse and his assistants know what they are doing. The Jamar thing makes him look bad because the commentators were all over it. At the end of the day he is much maligned so how about focussing on other Pie players and who the outs were and how good Melbourne is.

I don't think any other Pie player was as bad as Fraser. I would even go and say Barham was on top of him today. How good Melbourne is? I don't give a **** how good Melbourne was, we should have been better and Fraser was one of the reasons why we weren't.

 

[Drizt]

Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace

Problem is Melbourne are not a good side. We just played ridiculously crap footy today.

You will say that is sour grapes, but come on. Do you honestly believe Melbourne are a good football side at this very moment ?

 

[Kirby]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

He was really bad. What more can you say?

 

[Drizt]

Re: Josh Fraser - I don't know

3 threads on this now. Pretty sure most Pies fans hate his guts right now.

Yeap. The hate is deserved after his performances this year. Simply not good enough anymore to be in our best 25 players.

 

[pieman123]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

****ing fraser, just as worse as pim verbeek both should be executed

 

[loki04]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

18 hitouts and I wonder how many of them were actually effective...

As opposed to Fraser who doesn't even jump into the ruck contest stays grounded half the time to avoid contact.

Without Jolly even with his average form (lets be honest it has been average most of the year) we would be ****ed.

 

[Smoky]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

No... no... no...

Josh is a really great player... amazing ruckman... (and trade bait)

 

[Keele]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Phew lucky we did not lose... talk about bagging threads.

 

[kevind]

Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace

You guys have no idea. Fraser has survived in a high pressure environment for a number of years. Malthouse and his assistants know what they are doing. The Jamar thing makes him look bad because the commentators were all over it. At the end of the day he is much maligned so how about focussing on other Pie players and who the outs were and how good Melbourne is.

Who has no idea?????

This is a thread about Josh Fraser, not other Pies players. Hopefully your literary skills will pick that up.

Secondly, Fraser not manning up on Jamar is just one in a huge line of poor efforts that Fraser has put in over the last 6 years. Earlier in the game he was being beaten by Brad Miller in the ruck. I could go and write a feature movie about his poor form over a long period of time.

He is one of our most senior players. We have the right to demand better.

Before you post remarks with digs at other posters, how about putting your brain into gear!!!!

 

[Thommo 42]

Re: Josh Fraser - I don't know

I don't hate him at all, he has given us his hear & soul under great duress for a decade now.

I think I've given up on him now though

 

[PiEs_In_ThE_SkY!!! JA PM]

Re: Josh Fraser - I don't know

Always been a fan of Josh but have known for a while that Wood will provide us more in terms of ruck work AND versatility around the ground.

I think his time is up after today.

 

[daics_35]

Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

We got him with pick 1 as well which really hurts. I really think Dawes should come in for Fraiser and should spend some time in the ruck and help Jolly.

 

[loki04]

Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace

Is Dawes injured? Someone else mentioned he played reserves this week? From what I've seen of him he gives it his all, has plenty of mongrel and can kick a goal. Would've thought he'd be a better option than Brown, and/or Fraser for that matter?

Kicked 5.2 and gave off a couple in the VFL, but MM thinks a Bloke who is lucky to have 5 touches is more influential and provides more structure.

 

[stanley86]

Re: Josh Fraser - I don't know

I don't hate him at all, he has given us his hear & soul under great duress for a decade now.

I think I've given up on him now though

this is how i feel
summed it up perfectly

 

[rose jam]

Re: Josh Fraser - I don't know

First half good, second half bad. On a positive, that's an improvement.

OK, Josh, I'm not going to get caught up in the emotions of his performance today, I think the coaching staff really need to spend some time with him defining his role because he looks like he doesn't understand what his role is now and that's probably smashed his confidence from day 1 pre-season.

We need him to get through it, else we go to a Jolly-Leeroy combination.
I've seen Josh pull himself out of form slumps before when he's been challenged and I've seen him play plenty of superb finals games when the team has needed a performance from him.

Right now it's in his head and he's good enough to get out of it. Go Josh.

 

[The Panther]

Re: Josh Fraser - I don't know

Right now it's in his head and he's good enough to get out of it. Go Josh.

Had a look at Josh a bit today.

IMO he isn't working hard enough. I saw about 5 occurances where Josh was watching his man, hands up in the air, getting frustrated. Those aren't the acts of a senior player.

When Josh got dragged in the last, he was on the phone to MM copping a spray. His body language suggested that he was thinking, I'm above this. I hope the media & Grant Thomas go to town on him.

 

[rose jam]

Re: Josh Fraser - I don't know

I just wonder whether MM and the coaches have explained to him the reason for getting Jolly and what his role was going to be and how they wanted him to play. I think they've mishandled the transition with him and they need to invest some time into helping him. Always loved his skill, need it going again.

 

[The Panther]

Re: Josh Fraser - I don't know

I think they've mishandled the transition with him and they need to invest some time into helping him. Always loved his skill, need it going again.

Agree.

MM is b/w the devil & the deep blue see.

MM has stated in the media that early years, he ran Josh into the ground. Now we think we are a premiership chance & Josh is basically told by the Jolly trade, you aren't good enough.

I think Fraser has battled manfully for years but his body is shot, no confidence. Josh though is still sulking about not being the captain & the Jolly trade.

His head isn't in the right place. The club needs a Peter Moore type to have a mentor relationship to him like Essendon do with Simon Madden.