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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Josh Fraser & the great ruck debate
- Thread starter Rustin Cohle
- Start date
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Re: Josh Fraser - I don't know
If this is true, and he wanted captain, and he couldn't understand why we traded for a top grade ruckman, he severely overestimates his ability to play football.
What to say.
I like Josh, I believe early doors, MM ran him into the ground with no adequate support.
A year ago, before the Anzac Day, My Grandfather (son of Syd) spent a day with him when him, Lloydly & another vet were on the frontpage. All day he had his head down carrying on about not being awarded the captaincy.
Know Jolly's manager pretty well. Josh was absolutely roapable that we traded to get Jolly.
These 2 motives are a big reason why his sulking is costing the club. I've been attending matches since 1984 & that is the lamest effort I've seen from a Collingwood player.
Josh, you lost me today.
If this is true, and he wanted captain, and he couldn't understand why we traded for a top grade ruckman, he severely overestimates his ability to play football.
Optimax
Brownlow Medallist
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
Both Fraser and wood can **** themselves off to the reserves until one of them can grow a set of testicles.
I've often defended Josh, but he played a ****en inept, soft **** game today and sadly wood hasn't been any better this year.
So Dawes and Leroy alternate second ruck and forward, while ourrucking brothers of ******** can htfu in the seconds
Both Fraser and wood can **** themselves off to the reserves until one of them can grow a set of testicles.
I've often defended Josh, but he played a ****en inept, soft **** game today and sadly wood hasn't been any better this year.
So Dawes and Leroy alternate second ruck and forward, while ourrucking brothers of ******** can htfu in the seconds
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
This^^^
I simply don't get why they give the appearance that they give a sh*t about the CFC, as judged by:
passive body language on the field,
lack of any hint of mongrel endeavour
not using their voice to encourage others, or
build their bodies up more in the gym to be more physically imposing.
It appears they both urgently need psychological input to see exactly what's between the ears is and how much is ultimately fixable.
Neither deserves a game atm. Totally agree time to pinch hit with Dawes ( need him to help build a forward line structure) or Leroy ( at least he has a go) and wait for one of these 2nd rucks to decide to step up.
This^^^
I simply don't get why they give the appearance that they give a sh*t about the CFC, as judged by:
passive body language on the field,
lack of any hint of mongrel endeavour
not using their voice to encourage others, or
build their bodies up more in the gym to be more physically imposing.
It appears they both urgently need psychological input to see exactly what's between the ears is and how much is ultimately fixable.
Neither deserves a game atm. Totally agree time to pinch hit with Dawes ( need him to help build a forward line structure) or Leroy ( at least he has a go) and wait for one of these 2nd rucks to decide to step up.
mrmagoo
Debutant
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
Thats 2 lame efforts in a row. He has no ticker. He is just plain lazy.
Goodbye
Thats 2 lame efforts in a row. He has no ticker. He is just plain lazy.
Goodbye
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
Here are the top 10 selections from the 1999 national draft. Prob only 2 champions out of this list Pav/Corey. Just shows fraser was part of a terrible batch of players that year.
1. Josh (i have no balls) Fraser
2. Paul Haselby
3. Aaron Fiora
4. Mathew Pavlich
5 Leigh Brown
6. Damien Cupido
7. Danny Roach
8. Joel Corey
9. Cayde Betham
10. Luke McPharlin
1Josh FraserMurray BushrangersCollingwoodPriority2Paul HaslebyEast FremantleFremantle13Aaron FioraPort Adelaide MagpiesRichmond14Matthew PavlichWoodville-West TorrensFremantle15Leigh BrownGippsland PowerFremantle16Damian CupidoEastern RangesBrisbane Lions17Danny RoachTassie MarinersCollingwood18Joel CoreyEast PerthGeelong19Caydn BeethamOakleigh ChargersSt Kilda110Luke McPharlinEast FremantleHawthorn111Darren GlassPerthWest Coast Eagles112Paul KoulouriotisCalder CannonsPort Adelaide113Robert MurphyGippsland PowerWestern Bulldogs114Travis GasparSouth FremantleWest Coast Eagles115David SpriggsPrahran DragonsGeelong116David HaynesGeelong FalconsWest Coast Eagles117Ezra BrayCalder CannonsGeelong218 (F/S)Rhyce ShawPreston KnightsCollingwood219Brad GreenTassie MarinersMelbourne220Paul WheatleyPreston KnightsMelbourne
1Josh FraserMurray BushrangersCollingwoodPriority2Paul HaslebyEast FremantleFremantle13Aaron FioraPort Adelaide MagpiesRichmond14Matthew PavlichWoodville-West TorrensFremantle15Leigh BrownGippsland PowerFremantle16Damian CupidoEastern RangesBrisbane Lions17Danny RoachTassie MarinersCollingwood18Joel CoreyEast PerthGeelong19Caydn BeethamOakleigh ChargersSt Kilda110Luke McPharlinEast FremantleHawthorn111Darren GlassPerthWest Coast Eagles112Paul KoulouriotisCalder CannonsPort Adelaide113Robert MurphyGippsland PowerWestern Bulldogs114Travis GasparSouth FremantleWest Coast Eagles115David SpriggsPrahran DragonsGeelong116David HaynesGeelong FalconsWest Coast Eagles117Ezra BrayCalder CannonsGeelong218 (F/S)Rhyce ShawPreston KnightsCollingwood219Brad GreenTassie MarinersMelbourne220Paul WheatleyPreston KnightsMelbourne1Josh FraserMurray BushrangersCollingwoodPriority2Paul HaslebyEast FremantleFremantle13Aaron FioraPort Adelaide MagpiesRichmond14Matthew PavlichWoodville-West TorrensFremantle15Leigh BrownGippsland PowerFremantle16Damian CupidoEastern RangesBrisbane Lions17Danny RoachTassie MarinersCollingwood18Joel CoreyEast PerthGeelong19Caydn BeethamOakleigh ChargersSt Kilda110Luke McPharlinEast FremantleHawthorn111Darren GlassPerthWest Coast Eagles112Paul KoulouriotisCalder CannonsPort Adelaide113Robert MurphyGippsland PowerWestern Bulldogs114Travis GasparSouth FremantleWest Coast Eagles115David SpriggsPrahran DragonsGeelong116David HaynesGeelong FalconsWest Coast Eagles117Ezra BrayCalder CannonsGeelong218 (F/S)Rhyce ShawPreston KnightsCollingwood219Brad GreenTassie MarinersMelbourne220Paul WheatleyPreston KnightsMelbourne1Josh FraserMurray BushrangersCollingwoodPriority2Paul HaslebyEast FremantleFremantle13Aaron FioraPort Adelaide MagpiesRichmond14Matthew PavlichWoodville-West TorrensFremantle15Leigh BrownGippsland PowerFremantle16Damian CupidoEastern RangesBrisbane Lions17Danny RoachTassie MarinersCollingwood18Joel CoreyEast PerthGeelong19Caydn BeethamOakleigh ChargersSt Kilda110Luke McPharlinEast FremantleHawthorn111Darren GlassPerthWest Coast Eagles112Paul KoulouriotisCalder CannonsPort Adelaide113Robert MurphyGippsland PowerWestern Bulldogs114Travis GasparSouth FremantleWest Coast Eagles115David SpriggsPrahran DragonsGeelong116David HaynesGeelong FalconsWest Coast Eagles117Ezra BrayCalder CannonsGeelong218 (F/S)Rhyce ShawPreston KnightsCollingwood219Brad GreenTassie MarinersMelbourne220Paul WheatleyPreston KnightsMelbourne
Here are the top 10 selections from the 1999 national draft. Prob only 2 champions out of this list Pav/Corey. Just shows fraser was part of a terrible batch of players that year.
1. Josh (i have no balls) Fraser
2. Paul Haselby
3. Aaron Fiora
4. Mathew Pavlich
5 Leigh Brown
6. Damien Cupido
7. Danny Roach
8. Joel Corey
9. Cayde Betham
10. Luke McPharlin
1Josh FraserMurray BushrangersCollingwoodPriority2Paul HaslebyEast FremantleFremantle13Aaron FioraPort Adelaide MagpiesRichmond14Matthew PavlichWoodville-West TorrensFremantle15Leigh BrownGippsland PowerFremantle16Damian CupidoEastern RangesBrisbane Lions17Danny RoachTassie MarinersCollingwood18Joel CoreyEast PerthGeelong19Caydn BeethamOakleigh ChargersSt Kilda110Luke McPharlinEast FremantleHawthorn111Darren GlassPerthWest Coast Eagles112Paul KoulouriotisCalder CannonsPort Adelaide113Robert MurphyGippsland PowerWestern Bulldogs114Travis GasparSouth FremantleWest Coast Eagles115David SpriggsPrahran DragonsGeelong116David HaynesGeelong FalconsWest Coast Eagles117Ezra BrayCalder CannonsGeelong218 (F/S)Rhyce ShawPreston KnightsCollingwood219Brad GreenTassie MarinersMelbourne220Paul WheatleyPreston KnightsMelbourne
1Josh FraserMurray BushrangersCollingwoodPriority2Paul HaslebyEast FremantleFremantle13Aaron FioraPort Adelaide MagpiesRichmond14Matthew PavlichWoodville-West TorrensFremantle15Leigh BrownGippsland PowerFremantle16Damian CupidoEastern RangesBrisbane Lions17Danny RoachTassie MarinersCollingwood18Joel CoreyEast PerthGeelong19Caydn BeethamOakleigh ChargersSt Kilda110Luke McPharlinEast FremantleHawthorn111Darren GlassPerthWest Coast Eagles112Paul KoulouriotisCalder CannonsPort Adelaide113Robert MurphyGippsland PowerWestern Bulldogs114Travis GasparSouth FremantleWest Coast Eagles115David SpriggsPrahran DragonsGeelong116David HaynesGeelong FalconsWest Coast Eagles117Ezra BrayCalder CannonsGeelong218 (F/S)Rhyce ShawPreston KnightsCollingwood219Brad GreenTassie MarinersMelbourne220Paul WheatleyPreston KnightsMelbourne1Josh FraserMurray BushrangersCollingwoodPriority2Paul HaslebyEast FremantleFremantle13Aaron FioraPort Adelaide MagpiesRichmond14Matthew PavlichWoodville-West TorrensFremantle15Leigh BrownGippsland PowerFremantle16Damian CupidoEastern RangesBrisbane Lions17Danny RoachTassie MarinersCollingwood18Joel CoreyEast PerthGeelong19Caydn BeethamOakleigh ChargersSt Kilda110Luke McPharlinEast FremantleHawthorn111Darren GlassPerthWest Coast Eagles112Paul KoulouriotisCalder CannonsPort Adelaide113Robert MurphyGippsland PowerWestern Bulldogs114Travis GasparSouth FremantleWest Coast Eagles115David SpriggsPrahran DragonsGeelong116David HaynesGeelong FalconsWest Coast Eagles117Ezra BrayCalder CannonsGeelong218 (F/S)Rhyce ShawPreston KnightsCollingwood219Brad GreenTassie MarinersMelbourne220Paul WheatleyPreston KnightsMelbourne1Josh FraserMurray BushrangersCollingwoodPriority2Paul HaslebyEast FremantleFremantle13Aaron FioraPort Adelaide MagpiesRichmond14Matthew PavlichWoodville-West TorrensFremantle15Leigh BrownGippsland PowerFremantle16Damian CupidoEastern RangesBrisbane Lions17Danny RoachTassie MarinersCollingwood18Joel CoreyEast PerthGeelong19Caydn BeethamOakleigh ChargersSt Kilda110Luke McPharlinEast FremantleHawthorn111Darren GlassPerthWest Coast Eagles112Paul KoulouriotisCalder CannonsPort Adelaide113Robert MurphyGippsland PowerWestern Bulldogs114Travis GasparSouth FremantleWest Coast Eagles115David SpriggsPrahran DragonsGeelong116David HaynesGeelong FalconsWest Coast Eagles117Ezra BrayCalder CannonsGeelong218 (F/S)Rhyce ShawPreston KnightsCollingwood219Brad GreenTassie MarinersMelbourne220Paul WheatleyPreston KnightsMelbourne
- Banned
- #82
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
he's a discrace!
he's a discrace!
jayceontaylor
Debutant
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
piss ****ing weak, retire now
piss ****ing weak, retire now
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
Said it before whats the f*****g point of playing two ruckmen when the second ruckman (be it Wood or Fraser) get annihilated in both tap work and around the ground as well as being weak as piss?
FFS bring in Dawes and play Brown as the second ruck atleast he will provide a physical contest and offer more around the ground.
Said it before whats the f*****g point of playing two ruckmen when the second ruckman (be it Wood or Fraser) get annihilated in both tap work and around the ground as well as being weak as piss?
FFS bring in Dawes and play Brown as the second ruck atleast he will provide a physical contest and offer more around the ground.
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Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
Should be dropped on that alone
Then pointed the finger at other players.
Should be dropped on that alone
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Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
Did Fraser really point his fingers at other players blaming them? If so that's not called for.It's his man not the other players man.
Did Fraser really point his fingers at other players blaming them? If so that's not called for.It's his man not the other players man.
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Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
I'll go in with Brown as a second ruckman solely because you know he'll fight.
He was on the 50 in the pocket when took the mark, he then walked to man the mark pointing at Shaw and Wellingham who were having a go at Fraser for not following him in.
I'll go in with Brown as a second ruckman solely because you know he'll fight.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
Re: Josh Fraser - I don't know
I still think we should of Tried to Traded him to the Hawks after we got Jolly as they really need Ruckman
I still think we should of Tried to Traded him to the Hawks after we got Jolly as they really need Ruckman
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
Josh is finished, he's lost his one strength, which was his mobility. He's never been a good mark, never been good in the ruck, but what he did have was mobility, which he used to good effect.
Unfortunately, now even that is gone. He couldn't keep up with Jamar in that last quarter. I was watching closely...Jamar actually outran him, and Josh gave up. He's no good as a second ruckman...ffs, he barely broke even with Millar. Like really, MILLAR! When a ruckman is up against Miller you'd expect them to get the upper hand.
Unfortunately, Wood aint really any better, both weak as p(ss. They should both be in the seconds to be honest.
Josh is finished, he's lost his one strength, which was his mobility. He's never been a good mark, never been good in the ruck, but what he did have was mobility, which he used to good effect.
Unfortunately, now even that is gone. He couldn't keep up with Jamar in that last quarter. I was watching closely...Jamar actually outran him, and Josh gave up. He's no good as a second ruckman...ffs, he barely broke even with Millar. Like really, MILLAR! When a ruckman is up against Miller you'd expect them to get the upper hand.
Unfortunately, Wood aint really any better, both weak as p(ss. They should both be in the seconds to be honest.
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Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
Well that's just plain pathetic from Fraser. Blaming other people for his **** up.
Own up Josh and admit it was your piss weak effort that cost us.
Well that's just plain pathetic from Fraser. Blaming other people for his **** up.
Own up Josh and admit it was your piss weak effort that cost us.
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
Has been a real liability all year (Anzac day the only exception) and needs to go. You can't carry passangers. Not ever player has to be a star but you need them to contribute and play a role and to be honest Josh hasn't all year.
I am not really suprised his form over the last few years has been consistantly below average and the idea of playing him in the ruck less was always going to result in a reduced output from him.
Wood has been extremely poor all year too and I think it's about time we play Dawes / L Brown as the relief rucks.
Has been a real liability all year (Anzac day the only exception) and needs to go. You can't carry passangers. Not ever player has to be a star but you need them to contribute and play a role and to be honest Josh hasn't all year.
I am not really suprised his form over the last few years has been consistantly below average and the idea of playing him in the ruck less was always going to result in a reduced output from him.
Wood has been extremely poor all year too and I think it's about time we play Dawes / L Brown as the relief rucks.
- Banned
- #93
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
I haven't read the whole thread, but the first handful of posters I agree whole heartedly with.
I have been saying it for YEARS now. Fraser is a soft ****. Such soft cockism is cancerous to a football club.
One good game every few months in a match we win by 10 goals doesn't fool me, either.
I'd rather give Wood a shot at it. He won't do any worse in games that matter, and has some upside. We know what we have got with Fraser (SFA).
As for Jolly... I thought we had solved our ruck issues in one strike, but at best we have improved them by 10-20 percent. He isn't the brightest man on or off the field, and if Fraser has the heart of a mouse then Jolly just has the heart of a Guinea Pig.
In short, our ruck department has improved, but by no where near as much as most of us had optimistically predicted pre-season.
I haven't read the whole thread, but the first handful of posters I agree whole heartedly with.
I have been saying it for YEARS now. Fraser is a soft ****. Such soft cockism is cancerous to a football club.
One good game every few months in a match we win by 10 goals doesn't fool me, either.
I'd rather give Wood a shot at it. He won't do any worse in games that matter, and has some upside. We know what we have got with Fraser (SFA).
As for Jolly... I thought we had solved our ruck issues in one strike, but at best we have improved them by 10-20 percent. He isn't the brightest man on or off the field, and if Fraser has the heart of a mouse then Jolly just has the heart of a Guinea Pig.
In short, our ruck department has improved, but by no where near as much as most of us had optimistically predicted pre-season.
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Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
I hope Fraser doesnt read all these posts... it will do nothing for his confidence.
Josh needs to come to terms with the fact that he is either going to be a second ruck/parttime forward or he isnt going to get a game. His days of being first ruck are gone.
I hope the penny drops... he needs to show something in the next 10 games or I think he will be let go.
For those collingwood supporters saying that they hate Josh Fraser, I hope you think twice next time before you post comments like that.
I hope Fraser doesnt read all these posts... it will do nothing for his confidence.
Josh needs to come to terms with the fact that he is either going to be a second ruck/parttime forward or he isnt going to get a game. His days of being first ruck are gone.
I hope the penny drops... he needs to show something in the next 10 games or I think he will be let go.
For those collingwood supporters saying that they hate Josh Fraser, I hope you think twice next time before you post comments like that.
- Banned
- #95
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
I always fancy our chances with Brown in the side more than I do without.
Sure, he makes plenty of bad decisions and can let us down with his disposal, but I have never seen him preserve his body in a physical contest, nor have I seen many take a mark in a pack he was in.
And, he has a bit of tin ass about him. For all he lacks in skills, he still kicks a big goal from time to time, or hits a bloke on the tit with a pass. Who could forget his massive kick in last years semi?!
Give me 10/10 heart, 5/10 skills, 5/10 decision making over 1/10 heart, 7/10 skills, 6.5/10 decision making any day.
I always fancy our chances with Brown in the side more than I do without.
Sure, he makes plenty of bad decisions and can let us down with his disposal, but I have never seen him preserve his body in a physical contest, nor have I seen many take a mark in a pack he was in.
And, he has a bit of tin ass about him. For all he lacks in skills, he still kicks a big goal from time to time, or hits a bloke on the tit with a pass. Who could forget his massive kick in last years semi?!
Give me 10/10 heart, 5/10 skills, 5/10 decision making over 1/10 heart, 7/10 skills, 6.5/10 decision making any day.
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
May as well bring in the big yank, at least he's got a heart that's bigger than a dried up pea.
I've stood by Frase for a long time, but sometimes your race is run and it's better to go with dignity than hang around being bitter. His body language is making Fev look like a motivational speaker. Cut him loose, play Seamus.
May as well bring in the big yank, at least he's got a heart that's bigger than a dried up pea.
I've stood by Frase for a long time, but sometimes your race is run and it's better to go with dignity than hang around being bitter. His body language is making Fev look like a motivational speaker. Cut him loose, play Seamus.
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
This!
The rucks have only improved slightly if that! Have a look at each oppositions ruck performance against us in all games this year and i would say we have won maybe once or twice at the most.
Fraser is now just a terrible footballer who isnt fit to wear the colours any more and an embarrasment to himself and the team.
Jolly has not impressed me one bit either, his tap work has been good at times but if it is good enough for other rucks in the competition to have an influence around the ground its bloody good enough for him too.
Needs to do more much much more.
^^^^^^^^
This!
The rucks have only improved slightly if that! Have a look at each oppositions ruck performance against us in all games this year and i would say we have won maybe once or twice at the most.
Fraser is now just a terrible footballer who isnt fit to wear the colours any more and an embarrasment to himself and the team.
Jolly has not impressed me one bit either, his tap work has been good at times but if it is good enough for other rucks in the competition to have an influence around the ground its bloody good enough for him too.
Needs to do more much much more.
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Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Jolly got hammered by KB on SEN. He said he didn't run hard enough to chase and tackle. Looks like our rucks haven't improved much at all from last year. Was expecting heaps more but once again left disappointed
^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Jolly got hammered by KB on SEN. He said he didn't run hard enough to chase and tackle. Looks like our rucks haven't improved much at all from last year. Was expecting heaps more but once again left disappointed
- Banned
- #99
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
All jesting aside, when I used to get a run in the ruck I recall sometimes being so conscious of winning the hit out I would sometimes just be hitting it without any knowledge as to where I was hitting it.
When I see Jolly ruck, I am reminded of such instincts.
He panics when caught behind and takes big risks in terms of risk v reward (having a free kick paid against you v winning a hit out) in his attempt to nullify the disadvantage of being caught behind.
And when he wins a hit out, a lot of the time it is to absolutely no one, or worse, straight to an opponent that was occupying the space well before the ball was put in the air (i.e. he hit it to them rather than they read his hit out).
Sure, there have been a couple of absolutely winning taps, but so often he seems so fixated (to the point of panic) on winning the hit out that he is willing to give a free kick away in the process, or is incapable of directing a winning tap to advantage once he does win, because his mind is in a frenzy and just winning the tap is as much as his pea brain could handle.
All jesting aside, when I used to get a run in the ruck I recall sometimes being so conscious of winning the hit out I would sometimes just be hitting it without any knowledge as to where I was hitting it.
When I see Jolly ruck, I am reminded of such instincts.
He panics when caught behind and takes big risks in terms of risk v reward (having a free kick paid against you v winning a hit out) in his attempt to nullify the disadvantage of being caught behind.
And when he wins a hit out, a lot of the time it is to absolutely no one, or worse, straight to an opponent that was occupying the space well before the ball was put in the air (i.e. he hit it to them rather than they read his hit out).
Sure, there have been a couple of absolutely winning taps, but so often he seems so fixated (to the point of panic) on winning the hit out that he is willing to give a free kick away in the process, or is incapable of directing a winning tap to advantage once he does win, because his mind is in a frenzy and just winning the tap is as much as his pea brain could handle.
Re: Fraser - you are a disgrace
Jolly said "On the Couch" tonight that the free kicks against him have mean't he has had to become less physical in the ruck because he has become confused at how much contact he is allowed.
Jolly said "On the Couch" tonight that the free kicks against him have mean't he has had to become less physical in the ruck because he has become confused at how much contact he is allowed.
