Josh Fraser & the great ruck debate

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Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

We've tried to address the ruck problem, by trading our first round pick in 2 of the last 3 years for a ruckman.

Unfortunately Wood is bordering on dud status and Jolly has been a massive let down. To think we could have got Mumford for alot less than a 3rd round pick! Or we probably could have got Jamar for a packet of Dorito's this time last year!
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

I'm not keen to spend another first round pick on a ruck. Maybe invest some money on a decent ruck coach, bring in some mentors and try and fast track what we have.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Maybe the problem isn't to do with the players we pick but more on our ruck coach? I believe strongly that it doesn't matter if you "could have" gotten that player because if you did choose that player the end result could turn out completely different.
 

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Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Old Spice said:
I'm not keen to spend another first round pick on a ruck. Maybe invest some money on a decent ruck coach, bring in some mentors and try and fast track what we have.
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I think it's time we spend some money on radical medical treatments for Fraser. I'm talking transplanting his bones with metal (much like Wolverine), maybe even getting him a new heart that has a bit of courage in it (much like The Lion in Wizard of Oz), and perhaps adding suction cups to his hands so he can hold onto a goddamn football (much like...an octopus..?).

I'm sick of spending picks on rucks, just need to actually develop the stock we have. If Keefe doesn't already train with the firsts then he should be, Wood needs to be played ahead of Fraser unless my afore-mentioned medical treatments are implemented, and keep persisting with the Big Americano.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Optimax said:
Invig neither wood nor fraser deserves games, it is that simple

Jolly hasnt been great agreed, but without him and watching wood and fraser in 2010 we'd be ****ed without him.
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I'd normally agree, I just think Wood earned the right to a sustained crack at the role on the back of his form last year.
Everyone chopped out Fraser saying how he needed 'x' amount of weeks to adjust to his new role, I'm not really sure why the same courtesy didn't extend to Wood.

He is clearly a guy made exclusively to ruck, but he doesn't really get that opportunity when Jolly rucks 70-80% of the game. I didn't think he was too bad in the back up ruck role when he played tbh, I also thought he showed more than Fraser has as a pinch hit forward.

Can't say I agree with the last comment either, we competed pretty manfully with Wood as our number 1 ruck last year. Like I said, I think we should have recruited another young upcoming ruckman to complement him, not one to completely push him out of the job.
I don't want it to look like I just jumped on the Mumford bandwagon either (but I don't wanna blow my own whistle), but I said before trade week we should have had a look at him (amongst a few others like Hampson and Jacobs).
I think a ruck duo with Mumford + Wood would be looking a lot better than any combination we can dish up with Jolly.

In saying all that, I've never been a huge fan of ruckman in general and was never in favour of using a first rounder to get a 28 year old one that has a limited effect around the ground.
I think MM was thinking too much about his impending retirement when he made the decision to draft Jolly.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

I don't think Jolly has been that bad. Certainly nowhere near the level he was playing at last year, but he's been a step above Wood and Fraser and that's what we got him for. His ruckwork has been decent, he's kicked a few goals. And I definitely think he's being treated differently than other rucks when it comes to what will and will not give away free kicks.

I agree that Wood needs to be the second ruck, and kept there for the rest of the year though. He has looked really lazy, and done some extremely dumb things but at least he has the excuse that he's a young player who hasn't gotten many games, what's Frasers?

Such a shame, preseason everyone expected our rucks to be some of the best, now we're actually close to the bottom.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

What I don't understand is, how come with the competition for a ruck spot we see both Wood and Fraser get a game and then play like they couldn't give a stuff. You would think that whichever of them is getting a game would be busting a gut to try and stay in the team, but it really looks like neither of them is all that fussed. Is it because both Keefe and Mcnamara are only rookies so can't be given a game and they each know that the other played like shit on their last outing?????
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Is it too far-fetched to say that our ruck coach is the cause of our problems? I mean Jolly was a gun at Sydney and this year he's been just average. Wood showed plenty of promise but hasn't come on at all, none of the rucks we've drafted or traded for in the last ten years have been anywhere near the best ruckman in the comp. Sydney on the other hand turned Jolly into a gun, Mumford's starring for them and even Mark Seaby was looking good before he got injured.

So to sum up, let's give our ruck coach the arse and poach Sydney's!
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Old Spice said:
I'm not keen to spend another first round pick on a ruck. Maybe invest some money on a decent ruck coach, bring in some mentors and try and fast track what we have.
Click to expand...
Jolly is a good enough ruckman. Come September he will be worth his weight in gold.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

If fraser was at sydney he'd be a star.. there gameplan suits ruckman.. our doesn't so much.. he would be pushing forward and getting 35 hit outs ala mumford or jolly when he was there..

I just don't think our style of game would suit any particular ruckman.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

THATSGOLD said:
If fraser was at sydney he'd be a star.. there gameplan suits ruckman.. our doesn't so much.. he would be pushing forward and getting 35 hit outs ala mumford or jolly when he was there..

I just don't think our style of game would suit any particular ruckman.
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How different can our gameplan be for ruckman? Just jump and tap it down to our midfielder.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Surely Jolly is good enough to ruck by himself! He is now in the prime of his career and has had the first half of the season to become used to our gameplan. Time to shoulder some responsibility and take the load like Sandilands, Jamar and Mumford have done so far. We have an adequate player in Brown to back-up in the ruck and also go forward/back (look at Kepler who has done this job well for Freo so far)

At the moment Fraser and Wood are not up to it, last year we were all for one ruckman, I think we have to go back to that thinking now.
 

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Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

I can only make the assumption he is fit.

Wood is fit and going OK at VFL level. Leigh Brown can back up ruck as well. Dawes was doing alright at senior level.

SO if Josh is unfit, we have options.


Therefore I'll judge his game based on the assumption he is fit.


Typically I write enormous posts analysing all aspects of a players game. Today my wrap on Josh's game is short - Retire now.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Frankie23 said:
Surely Jolly is good enough to ruck by himself! He is now in the prime of his career and has had the first half of the season to become used to our gameplan. Time to shoulder some responsibility and take the load like Sandilands, Jamar and Mumford have done so far. We have an adequate player in Brown to back-up in the ruck and also go forward/back (look at Kepler who has done this job well for Freo so far)

At the moment Fraser and Wood are not up to it, last year we were all for one ruckman, I think we have to go back to that thinking now.
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Don't know what you are basing your assumptions on ----Wood had 11 possessions in 40% game time in Brisbane so perhaps if he were to be given the game time of Jolly he would be right up in the top players if he had 75-80% game time -- also coming off a nasty injury and still having treatment so morons on here don't know too much!!!!
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

THATSGOLD said:
If fraser was at sydney he'd be a star.. there gameplan suits ruckman.. our doesn't so much.. he would be pushing forward and getting 35 hit outs ala mumford or jolly when he was there..

I just don't think our style of game would suit any particular ruckman.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make any sense at all...

He can't win ruck contests against Brad Miller as is, I doubt he'd suddenly start dominating them against true ruckmen just because he was playing for Sydney.

Mumford was always a good tap ruckman and Jolly's numbers were undoubtedly inflated by Sydney's inclination to play stoppage football. But more stoppages wouldn't help Fraser because the fact is, he can't win the ruck contests he is currently competing in. Having to do 20-30 more a match isn't gonna help, it's just going to make his opponents look even better.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

I just want to see him getting the ball around the ground again because he plays on quickly and likes to move the ball through the middle of the ground. I want him back in form.
On history he usually comes out and plays a blinder after heavy criticism.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

He would have to be the worst 200 game player in the comp. Bring Wood in, and bring him in now.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

He is not going to get back in form.

He has bone on bone in his knee and his back is stuffed. He has never coped well with injuries (could not get on the park in 2 of our last 3 finals campaigns).

He is done, stick a fork in him and move on.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Gee some of you guys are a bit harsh on him being soft

IMO he isnt a ruckman and never will be

Not even sure he would make a good Follower

When he first came on the scene he had the expectation of most supporters of being the next big thing

You ever done a Paul Salmon and played him at Full Foward ?

He is mobile enough
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Swampfox said:
You ever done a Paul Salmon and played him at Full Foward ?

He is mobile enough
Click to expand...

He was mobile enough, not any more.

I'm also told that a full forward needs to occasionally take a mark overhead under some pressue. Fraser hasn't taken one in about 3 years.
 
Re: Josh Fraser - **** Off and Don't Come Back

Thommo 42 said:
We've tried to address the ruck problem, by trading our first round pick in 2 of the last 3 years for a ruckman.

Unfortunately Wood is bordering on dud status and Jolly has been a massive let down. To think we could have got Mumford for alot less than a 3rd round pick! Or we probably could have got Jamar for a packet of Dorito's this time last year!
Click to expand...
If we've secured Jolly and turned him into a player worthy of our ire, I sincerely find it hard to believe that Mumford would be outperforming him hypothetically in the same role.

I find myself questioning whether we are capable of developing and utilising a quality ruckman, no matter where he comes from.
 

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Josh Fraser & the great ruck debate

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