Knightmare
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 22, 2010
- 19,533
- 19,542
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
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- Chicago Bulls
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #3,651
They might want brown on a wing
That's another optional usage. Sure.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
They might want brown on a wing
KM what do you feel freo will do with 21? Will they take Johnson goater or Sonise or trade it?
Km. Stoked with the saints hall. NWM looks like he has so much class. His delivery into king for the next 10 years is something we can get excited about. Also looks like we nail our ngas. Could also be a massive chance to trade back in for a player knowing that the boys will probably slide now. Big win for the saints.
KM what do you feel freo will do with 21? Will they take Johnson goater or Sonise or trade it?
Knightmare congratulations on your Phantom Draft outcome (so far) .....big calls on Sheldrick and Chesser that received some interesting responses
I can understand you rating Sheldrick in your Power Rankings but not your Phantom ....as the Phantom is where you think Clubs will choose players
Good work in a tough year
Half of the picks among those next 10 probably get traded, but those from my phantom yet to get picked are among those most likely. Johnson, Howes, Goater, Motlop, Butler, Sonsie, Knevitt, Owens, Draper and Fahey in no particular order shouldn't last long.
KM, have you gone off Matt Roberts? And where does Zac Taylor fit in?
Hi Knightmare , haven't seen much about Kai Lohmann from you, what are your thoughts on him? Strengths/weaknesses/plays like?
FWIW I was at a Lions draft function last night and pre the draft a recruiter was saying they had Wilmot at 11 and Lohmann at 14 on their board so we got exactly who they wanted. Also said they go best available for list needs..... not purely best available, reason being they don't want to be too stocked up on 1 type of player.
Pick 1, North Melbourne: Jason Horne-Francis
Doerre's Power Rankings: 1
Doerre says: Horne-Francis will greatly complement North Melbourne's list. They've added an influential difference maker who, both through the midfield and up forward, can change the complexion of games with his relentless pressure, tackling and how he imposes himself on games. Often winning the ball on the move at speed and proving difficult to contain aerially, one-on-one and at ground level inside 50, Horne-Francis is worthy of the pick one tag. Given North Melbourne's current strength and depth in the midfield, we can expect to see Horne-Francis to start his career across half-forward with some moments through the midfield and closer to goal as favourable matchups arise in games. A Round 1 debut is the expectation.
If I was North Melbourne list manager: No trade offer would sway me at this point. Jason Horne-Francis is the right pick as the best prospect in the draft. The addition of the. explosive South Australian from a marketing perspective will generate excitement, but as one of those players who influences winning in such a diverse number of ways, it's equally important of a play for North Melbourne's long term list build.
The Matt Johnson slide really threw you haha. Last 15 picks are “Matt Johnson should have been here”My first round 2021 AFL draft review including detailed pick and player thoughts as well as who I would have selected with each pick if I were the selector:
Point of discussion: Interested to hear if others agree with my thoughts broadly speaking that the best way to draft this year was to take the best midfielder available early and address other list needs with later picks so as to maximise the quality coming in.
https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_...draft-************-espn-reviewing-first-round
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The Matt Johnson slide really threw you haha. Last 15 picks are “Matt Johnson should have been here”
KM, is Curtis Taylor a fair comparison for Arlo Draper?
I get why you are saying that about Johnson but it does read very repetitively. Maybe should have put more emphasis on the alternatives or matching the types of players they went for. Clearly not everyone wanted a mid like Johnson so position needs should be taken into account - ie Freo and Richmond wanted a tall at least
I see it as being equivalent to wanting to buy something and the price keeps dropping.
Maybe it's a stock. Maybe Tesla is normally priced at $1000 but you can buy at $500. The more that price dips, from $900, to $800, to $700, if you're an investor, the more excited you should be getting if you fundamentally continue to have the same view of that company and liked the valuation at $1000.
The concept is the very same with footballers. If you feel that footballer is the best available player at a given pick, if they keep getting overlooked, in that same way, you should really be getting more and more excited by the value proposition represented.
Draper is the more skilful and has more tricks.
Draper with good development may be able to become something like a Robbie Gray.
As a more direct player comparison, he's something like a Tim Broomhead if you ever saw much of him, though hopefully he has a better injury run than Broomhead so that he can have a longer and stronger career.
As well as listing who I felt would be the best available at a given pick, I purposely included who I would have taken in each case as alternatives to cover the same list need for those wondering if I'm told by the coach "we need this type", be it positional or stylistic. In each case, while it's using a much later pick and often going for a mature age alternative, that's precisely in each instance how I would address list needs, with the early picks every time needing to be used for the best player.
To provide an example, it's like if you look back at the 2012 draft. Brisbane take Sam Mayes at 8. If you had that pick over, even if Mayes is seen as that necessary needs pick for whatever reason. Wouldn't you in hindsight want a Brodie Grundy instead, even if you just picked up Billy Longer a year earlier? I'd do that every day of the week because fundamentally in that draft at that stage, Grundy was a clear best available pick. And the careers played out showing that.
List needs really should be addressed during the trade and free agency period, but for those occasions where that's doesn't happen, late/rookie is the spot to do that. If it's a first or second round pick, I'm ignoring the position. Give me the best footballer. And even ideally late/rookie I'd more than not like someone who represents superior value where possible.
I do understand your point though. Ultimately though, drafts often go that way with a particular player for a number of successive picks often representing best available value.
So in the cases of Fremantle wanting a key forward - I'd be looking at Keitel or Hammelmann. For a Richmond wanting a key defender, I'd have loved Leek Alleer, but with him going earlier, that would move me later on to a Charlie Dean or if he goes earlier than I'd feel comfortable, Blake Schlensog should be available and could be moved down to very easily.
So in the cases of Fremantle wanting a key forward - I'd be looking at Keitel or Hammelmann.
My first round 2021 AFL draft review including detailed pick and player thoughts as well as who I would have selected with each pick if I were the selector:
Point of discussion: Interested to hear if others agree with my thoughts broadly speaking that the best way to draft this year was to take the best midfielder available early and address other list needs with later picks so as to maximise the quality coming in.
https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_...draft-************-espn-reviewing-first-round
KM I'm a huge Swans supporter but couldn't hide my disappointment when we drafted Sheldrick which I thought was again a reach with a first rounder...
Then I read your tweets and instantly felt a little better with your comparison to Lachie Neale which is something we definitely need!
But then I did a bit of my own research and watch at least the first half of both WA vs SA games that people have raved about with him and my disappointment returned...
I didn't see Lachie Neale. He disposal by foot was ordinary at best where Neale is a very good decision maker in traffic with good foot skills. Yes Sheldrick is strong in the contest but look at the size of him weight wise compared to the other kids!
Please tell me you've seen plenty more vision that proves me wrong and he is going to be the 2nd coming of Neale because I really don't want ANOTHER first round Swans bust!
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What's your guess tigers take at 28. 29. 30? If they don't trade
7 picks left live some decent players around
Freo
North.
Hawk x2
Gee x2
Carlton
Sorry, but this is ridiculous and there'd be 50,000 members glad you had nothing to do with our drafting. For years now Fremantle has tried to fill the massive key forward sized hole in our list with late picks or through trades. And here we are, still needing a key forward. For some reason I don't think the answer is two guys who'll be lucky to be drafted. We've seen this play out before. And besides, it's not like Jye Amiss is someone you didn't rate - you had him at #16 in your final rankings. Hardly a reach, and someone who definitely would have been gone by our third pick.
Based on your draft review, I assume you'll advocate for us to pick Johnson at #21? So we could have Amiss, Erasmus and Johnson....or we could have had Erasmus, Johnson and Keitel as a late pick. I know what I'd take.
KM I'm a huge Swans supporter but couldn't hide my disappointment when we drafted Sheldrick which I thought was again a reach with a first rounder...
Then I read your tweets and instantly felt a little better with your comparison to Lachie Neale which is something we definitely need!
But then I did a bit of my own research and watch at least the first half of both WA vs SA games that people have raved about with him and my disappointment returned...
I didn't see Lachie Neale. He disposal by foot was ordinary at best where Neale is a very good decision maker in traffic with good foot skills. Yes Sheldrick is strong in the contest but look at the size of him weight wise compared to the other kids!
Please tell me you've seen plenty more vision that proves me wrong and he is going to be the 2nd coming of Neale because I really don't want ANOTHER first round Swans bust!
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might have been better to try: “having taken Matthew Johnson with pick up 10 I would take xxx at 11”. “Having taken xxx at 11 I would take yyy at 12”…
or take Johnson at 10 (and he’s gone) and take the next player at your next pick. It’s a really messy analysis as others have said.
You are doing exceptionally well as a still young and emerging journo though. Calved yourself a very niche career path and it’s well deserved
I'm of the belief at least one if not multiple of those picks move.
If held, I'm predicting bids on either/or/both of Mitch Owens and Josh Fahey.
As for the picks. Jake Soligo, Judson Clarke and Arlo Draper could be among those considered and could drop around Richmond's picks to give you a few names to keep an ear out for.
For the record, I don't believe Keitel or Hammelmann will get drafted.
Should they be on AFL lists though? I believe both should be. They're both able key forwards. I could even have listed Jack Hayes as another. There are believe key forwards outside the AFL who I consider to be better than a number of AFL listed key forwards. And watching the state leagues, as I'm more than just a junior talent watcher, I notice the disparity.
People sleep on how good state leaguers are broadly speaking. These guys in Keitel, Hammelmann and Hayes are all depth at worst, best-22 at best.
The next component to address would be whether an early pick is required for a key forward. You would be right if you were to suggest that most good key forwards are drafted early, and that's because that's where for the most part the most talented ones are going. Does that mean you have to use an early pick to get a good key forward though? Just referring to Fremantle, you did well securing both Taberner as a rookie and then last year with Treacy as yet another rookie. I'd happily have both on my list and give them games.
Do teams need great key forwards to be a winning team? They're nice to have, but I wouldn't say so. Melbourne just won a premiership with a largely unwanted combo before the year started in Tom McDonald who Melbourne actively and Ben Brown who wasn't in hot demand last offseason. Those guys weren't first round picks. McDonald was a late pick and Brown was picked as a mature ager all those years after he should have been picked in the first place and went mid draft.
Is Amiss the 8th most talented or better in this draft?
Could there be a better alternative next offseason? Could there be an option who represents value superior to where they're selected? I find most years there are at least based on my own rankings.
As things stand for Fremantle, I'd be taking the pick and taking Johnson. Had I gone as I did in my piece, suggesting I would have taken Erasmus and Johnson (not expecting Johnson to make it to that third pick), Zac Taylor would have been that next player I would have selected.
With Fremantle likely to use four selections, Keitel would have been fine late draft. He's one of those you ideally take with your last rookie pick knowing he'd be there, but for clubs without a rookie pick, and I haven't done a count to check whether Fremantle will have any rookie spots available, but if not, he's fine to take with that last pick as someone I'd happily give a two year deal to. Likewise Hammelmann.
I have a whole series of tweets on Sheldrick which should fill you with confidence. I've got a great deal of confidence in his game. He is strong in exactly the areas of the game needed to convert his play to AFL level and I'd be surprised if he doesn't outperform his draft position in time.
By foot and as a decision maker, that's where Sheldrick is weak. That's why he's not even higher. That's what's missing.
You can have a strong and advanced body as a junior and still be great at AFL level. Christian Petracca, Clayton Oliver, Oliver Wines and Daniel Rich to name a few top of mind. What's great with Sheldrick is, even though he is that stronger body. He does have acceleration and does use it frequently. He'll win it at speed, burst away from stoppages, he can receive on the move at speed. Having that burst of speed as a weapon beyond all the contested stuff, it's one of those where you go back to first principles and he ticks those boxes. Has the contested side (most contested possessions during the champs) but then also has that good burst over short distance. He's a ball of power.
If you want to see Sheldrick for yourself and watch one game. The game I'd refer you to is the first game of the u19 Champs where WA take on SA. Sheldrick had Horne-Francis at stoppages for a lot of the first half. Watch how little Horne-Francis could do when they were both there together and how much better Sheldrick looked.
Sheldrick is one of my higher confidence picks this year. As per my tweets, it's a pick even though he wasn't my #1 best available, I like the value he represented nonetheless and love the way he impacts games.
Fair call. Thanks for the feedback.
And thanks for the kind words.
Ultimately it's the insight and general learnings I want to pass on. Give people the information where they can visualise precisely how the guy they picked plays, as well as getting into a bit of depth as to how to make the best use of a given draft pick and how going with a needs focus early draft often isn't necessary, nor the best route.
Great example of state league players is Brodie Mihocek. Passed over in his draft year (can’t remember why - maybe attitude?) and left to develop for years. Been a gun pick up for the pies in his mid-late 20’s. Arguably should have played AFL earlier than given the chance.
Hi Knightmare , haven't seen much about Kai Lohmann from you, what are your thoughts on him? Strengths/weaknesses/plays like?
FWIW I was at a Lions draft function last night and pre the draft a recruiter was saying they had Wilmot at 11 and Lohmann at 14 on their board so we got exactly who they wanted. Also said they go best available for list needs..... not purely best available, reason being they don't want to be too stocked up on 1 type of player.