List management 101 (69?)

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We were 2nd last in 2023 with a 20 game losing streak and we exited the most experience of any list.

That tells us exactly on how far back we coming from. For every piece of bad drafting we have picked up some gems in the later rounds.
Larkey, Zurhaar, Ford and Bailey Scott all look like excellent late value picks.

We have a clump of 23-25 year olds who haven't really stepped up to elite category yet being followed in by a bunch of kids who are well and truly on an elite path. It will take time and this year will be frustrating, especially the start which looks really grim on paper but i finally think we are on the right path.
 

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Zondor said:
No doubt that high end draft picks are the silver lining to being bad however it ain’t the recipe to success either. Check out the GC. Never made finals since their inception. Had a s**t load of high end draft picks but no finals. :stern look
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Here to tell you Zondor whatever we were doing before this crap period was definitely not a recipe for success - as 20 years of mid table finishes with the odd finals flourish shows.

People only remember flags and that was never happening.

We have a Coach who'll - at worst - point these talented kids in the right direction and if the fire's still there - he'll do much better than that.
 
As others have said, the sins of the past (pre-Clarko arriving) have to be acknowledged but put behind us. They’ve created a mountain to climb, but I think there are green shoots showing smarter decisions are being made now. For me, what is critical is biting the bullet and being willing to give up one of our mids and/or inconsistent talent (pains me to say it, but looking at you Cam) EOY as part of trading for a ready-to-go KPD and forward crumber/foil for Larkey. This is the year to start bringing in ready made players in key positions rather than just using picks for teens.
 
Was thinking about similar after our expected defeat on Saturday.

1. Scott re-signs
2. Scott sacked
3. TT drafted
4. Polecs traded in
5. Rhyce Shaw appointed
6.Rhyce Shaw sacked
7. Noble appointed
8. Noble sacked
9. Somewhere amongst that lot...
10. Archer making decisions well above his station
11. Stevo see above ( they both are passionate NMFC men, beyond doubt)
12.Amarfio somewhere in amongst that lot
13. He got sacked.
14. Al clarko signs, we're all over the moon.
15. al clarko facing serious allegations.
16. we're including club are flat as ****
17. Recruit JHFF - yay
18. JHFF ****s off
19. TT joins Polecs as a complete bust. Reasons different result the same.
20. Luffs FFS


My timeline clearly incorrect but you get the picture painted and it isn't a pretty picture.

Yes our drafting/list management has be next level amateur. But there are other things that have meant we ended up where we are.

A few seasons ago I had us playing finals ( bottom of the 8) in 2025.

Right now we have just started season 2 of our rebuild. Is it any wonder i'm pissy at what's going on.

We delisted Harvey, Petrie et al in 2016 FFS & FMD, FML, that was eight years ago.


2020 we did this ...


1710729798836.png

And since that 2020 cull there has been around another 30 moved on.

oh well as we darn say
 
There has been many big mistakes, but the two which stick out most.:

1. When one of the scouts or recruitment staff clearly had too much influence regarding QLD football. On paper burning picks 34 & 36 doesn't look horrendous, but they were doomed from the start. There were some very well publicised blue chip recruits taken around them (Shai Bolton, Sean Darcy, Brennan Cox, Jack Graham...) Williams and Watson personified that recruiting period. Whilst Will Walker was another promising prospect, he was a massive risk in what was thought of as a loaded second round (which has proven to be right), with Tim Kelly, Balta, Ryan, Daniels, de Koning and Fritsch all taken immediately after him.

2. The Polec trade. Recruiting staff completely misread the right course of action when dealt a top 10 academy prospects who's bid range is close to your R1 pick. Instead of trying to get ahead of your natural pick and double up on talent. The club took the opposite strategy of looking to burn it on the best mercenary they could afford with that pick. Not only did this strategy dilute the pick value at the trade table, but we did it in a historically strong draft. Im not going to pretend Thomas was a bad pick, he was picked in the correct range, however, we had more than enough ammunition to walk away from that draft with Ben King and Tarryn Thomas.

The Polec/Thomas deal will likely come up regularly in worst trades of all time lists for the next few decades.

3. The Powell trade was Russian Roullete that Rawlings lost. A lesson in the pitfalls of future pick trading. Tommy is a promising young player, but he's not going to eclipse Serong or Pickett. We diluted our pick into a lower one, into a weaker draft, completely destroyed by covid. The timing could not have been worse.
 
Zondor said:
Spot on TPA. It’s a glaring hole on our list. Harvey and RHJ our only true small forwards left on the list. We moved on 3 very ordinary small forwards last season and didn’t dare to recruit another? Garbage List Management. :stern look
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RHJ is about as much a small forward as Drury is, i.e he isn't.
 
Sphynx said:
RHJ is about as much a small forward as Drury is, i.e he isn't.
Click to expand...
So we have it confirmed. Not one small forward on the list. Not one! And apparently I was being kind. :stern look
 

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You've just got to trust that Clarko wouldn't taken the job on if we were to continue to cut corners.

We've revamped the development staff, brought in new assistants and stopped treating our VFL program like an afterthought. We've actually got decent players at the level as opposed to scouring local boozers on a Friday night for fill ins.

None of it's going to immediately impact the AFL team to the degree we go from 3 wins to 10, but it's a start.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk
 
GWS were in the bottom 4 midway through last season. When it turns it turns quick but if you get the decisions wrong it'll be back to square 1. When we started our rebuild we got decisions wrong, then we got them wrong again. This rebuild only started 2 drafts ago with Sheezel and Wardlaw and the signs are promising. Hopefully Dawson and Goad are the start of sorting out the talls but time will tell. We went Duursma over Watson and once again time will tell, but Duursma looks bloody good so far. We've taken some chances on talls that are ready to go and if one of Dawson, Pink or Biggie works out then great, it will help, but it's not a sure thing.

Clarko was spot on. Corr, Stephenson, Zurhaar, Stephens, Fisher, Tucker etc have to step up or this rebuild is still a few years away. If enough of these guys do then it can begin to turn midway through this year. I'm ready for the ride either way :)
 
Sphynx said:
3. The Powell trade was Russian Roullete that Rawlings lost. A lesson in the pitfalls of future pick trading. Tommy is a promising young player, but he's not going to eclipse Serong or Pickett. We diluted our pick into a lower one, into a weaker draft, completely destroyed by covid. The timing could not have been worse.
Click to expand...

This trade occured in 2019 before Rawlings had started.

My read on it is that we had a recruitment department with no head because Joyces and we were getting Shaw to do everything.

Rawling was on gardening leave from WC and not officially started with the club and while he probably had a hand in it it just shows the mess that we were in after exorcising Brad.
 
Boro said:
GWS were in the bottom 4 midway through last season. When it turns it turns quick but if you get the decisions wrong it'll be back to square 1. When we started our rebuild we got decisions wrong, then we got them wrong again. This rebuild only started 2 drafts ago with Sheezel and Wardlaw and the signs are promising. Hopefully Dawson and Goad are the start of sorting out the talls but time will tell. We went Duursma over Watson and once again time will tell, but Duursma looks bloody good so far. We've taken some chances on talls that are ready to go and if one of Dawson, Pink or Biggie works out then great, it will help, but it's not a sure thing.

Clarko was spot on. Corr, Stephenson, Zurhaar, Stephens, Fisher, Tucker etc have to step up or this rebuild is still a few years away. If enough of these guys do then it can begin to turn midway through this year. I'm ready for the ride either way :)
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A rebuild doesn't start with a coach.

It's why the recruiting staff is separate to the coaching staff, because their decisions should be impartial to their current situation and they may be there longer than a set of coaches.

The rebuild really began at LDU imo. Which was 7 years ago.

We tried to accelerate it with Polec thinking Simpkin, LDU and Thomas along with McKay, Durdin, Hibberd, Clarke, Walker, Williams, Watson, was enough top end talent.


Just because we stuffed up a lot of it along the way, doesn't mean it hasn't been going on that long.

Saying the rebuild started 2 years ago is a bit laughable tbh.
 
Sphynx said:
The rebuild really started at LDU imo. Which was 7 years ago.
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Yes we have paid a very heavy price for the zig zagging in priority through 2018.

We should have been playing kids.

We probably should have been bottom 4.

instead we were mid table nowhere and f***ed.

Of course we did have Nick Larkey winning the frosty Miller medal and Scott refusing to play him in the ones.
 
Sphynx said:
A rebuild doesn't start with a coach.

It's why the recruiting staff is separate to the coaching staff, because their decisions should be impartial to their current situation and they may be there longer than a set of coaches.

The rebuild really began at LDU imo. Which was 7 years ago.

We tried to accelerate it with Polec thinking Simpkin, LDU and Thomas enough top end talent.
Click to expand...
I didn’t say it did and hadn’t mentioned a coach. I said they got rebuild one wrong, then they got rebuild two wrong and now we’ve started a third or is it fourth? Who knows, but we screwed up and have been paying a price as supporters for too long…I have high hopes, fingers and every other ppart of the body crossed that starting from the Sheezel draft and list decisions we’ve made since that this rebuild might go to plan.
 
Only Forwards said:
Yes we have paid a very heavy price for the zig zagging in priority through 2018.

We should have been playing kids.

We probably should have been bottom 4.

instead we were mid table nowhere and f***ed.

Of course we did have Nick Larkey winning the frosty Miller medal and Scott refusing to play him in the ones.
Click to expand...

Yes, if anyone wants a year to blame for our current predicament, it's 2018.

Larkey could have come along a lot faster.

We had band aid solutions to what was a bottom 4 side and an absolute sea of vanilla battler types like Anderson, Hartung, Atley, Hrovat, MacMillan, Dumont, Wright, Jacobs, Williams.

Bookened by quality B+ grade senior players like Brown, Waite, Higgins, Cunnington, Tarrant, Goldstein, Ziebell keeping our heads above water.

An absolute army of mid table mediocrity.


If we had of just swallowed our pride after 2017 and committed to the rebuild, it's likely we walk out of 2018 with Max King, Tarryn Thomas and a bunch of upgraded mid range picks and 1 year of development in Larkey.

All the bizarre in doing it in a year dubbed years out as the strongest in a decade.
 
Boro said:
I didn’t say it did and hadn’t mentioned a coach. I said they got rebuild one wrong, then they got rebuild two wrong and now we’ve started a third or is it fourth? Who knows, but we screwed up and have been paying a price as supporters for too long…I have high hopes, fingers and every other ppart of the body crossed that starting from the Sheezel draft and list decisions we’ve made since that this rebuild might go to plan.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I thought you were alluding to the rebuild starting with Clarko.

It certainly seems we have nailed a few drafts in a row.

But lets also not kid ourselves, we had a lot of assistance between the AFL and lady luck (McKay) in getting in that situation. Still, you have to nail them.

We haven't seen them yet, but I think all of George, Hardeman, Dawson and Goad will prove to be legacy builders for Rawlings & Thursfield. Stephen Wells and Kinnear Beatson aren't remembered for picking Selwood (Well he is..) and Isaac Heeney, it's their mid round picks they are remembered for.

The second and third round picks over the last decade have been an absolute warzone casualty room for us.
 
Sphynx said:
Yes, if anyone wants a year to blame for our current predicament, it's 2018.

Larkey could have come along a lot faster.

We had band aid solutions to what was a bottom 4 side and an absolute sea of vanilla battler types like Anderson, Hartung, Atley, Hrovat, MacMillan, Dumont, Wright, Jacobs, Williams.

Bookened by quality B+ grade senior players like Brown, Waite, Higgins, Cunnington, Tarrant, Goldstein, Ziebell keeping our heads above water.

An absolute army of mid table mediocrity.


If we had of just swallowed our pride after 2017 and committed to the rebuild, it's likely we walk out of 2018 with Max King, Tarryn Thomas and a bunch of upgraded mid range picks and 1 year of development in Larkey.

All the bizarre in doing it in a year dubbed years out as the strongest in a decade.
Click to expand...
We were always peddling the notion that we couldn't afford to bottom out. Doing what we did, we were going to bottom out eventually.

And here we are.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk
 
scottywiper said:
Another season underway. Another familiar loss. Had a crack, miles off it.
After five years at the bottom we are looking another 2-3 years off any major movement up ladder.
As always, some encouraging signs. Mainly the kids.
Sheezel a ripper, Wardlaw cracks in, McKercher classy and Duursma looks a player. But so they should be. They are absolute high end draft picks. There would be something very wrong if they weren't quality young players. Goater looked good too - terrible luck.
Then look at the rest of the list.
It's horribly unbalanced. Backline is atrocious and still no small pressure forward.
After infamously culling all the fringe players, we have drafted so many mids and not much else. And many of them are small. Where is the system in what we've done?
What have we been doing for past five years?
We've tried recruiting guys from other clubs. But most have been just spot fillers. CCJ trade was always horrible and is looking even worse now. Corr is very average. Tucker adds little. Fisher and Stephens get time but looked average on debut. Daniel Howe. Should we have gone after a Ginnivan who at least filled a glaring need?
Greenwood and Stephenson been ok. Shiels solid last year. But none move the needle for us.
Logue was at least a tick until his injury.
Our key defender cupboard is virtually bare. We're relying on Comben who has never been a back and is made of paper. Nyoun, Pink??? Unlikely.
So many mistakes with drafting and trading it's amazing.
The CCJ trade.
Trading out of the first round of the draft when we were rebuilding, missing Pickett and/or Serong.
Jacobs Edward. Phoenix Spicer. Jack Mahoney. Hosie. Ham.
Phillips looking very shaky (ahead of McDonald).
Delisting and Relisting Turner? Why? What was Josh Walker all about? And then we flicked him when we were light on for key backs?
We should also have pushed harder with Horne-Francis. Port were desperate and like the CCJ trade we folded meekly. Even with Brown we took way unders for a bloke with his record.
I know some will disagree but I see a string of glaring mistakes leading to a historically bad team.
Some are with benefit of hindsight, undoubtedly, but lots of them like CCJ, Mahoney, Howe, even Corr, were obvious at the time.
And most have one bloke's hands all over them.
Click to expand...
Our backline might not be the best but they have only played 3 matches with 2 being practice games. l like what l saw from Dawson, Corr and Pink on the weekend. GWS played the game well by spreading our backline players from helping each other . Size wise we were undersized and it showed but we need to remember we have our to biggest backline players out atm in Logue and Comben. Jelling will take time and if we are still like this at the bye round then we have an issue but until then we play with what we have..

We are working towards the future and we have to start somewhere.

Hopefully getting Comben, Simpkin, Greenwood and either Lmac or Bergman in this week will help in place of Goater, Sheil, and 2 others....
 
Sphynx said:
A rebuild doesn't start with a coach.

It's why the recruiting staff is separate to the coaching staff, because their decisions should be impartial to their current situation and they may be there longer than a set of coaches.

The rebuild really began at LDU imo. Which was 7 years ago.

We tried to accelerate it with Polec thinking Simpkin, LDU and Thomas along with McKay, Durdin, Hibberd, Clarke, Walker, Williams, Watson, was enough top end talent.


Just because we stuffed up a lot of it along the way, doesn't mean it hasn't been going on that long.

Saying the rebuild started 2 years ago is a bit laughable tbh.
Click to expand...



Yes this rebuild started two years ago, doesn't mean its the first ****en attempt now does it.
You don't have the youngest list in the blardy comp if you started this rebuild 7 years ago.

It's laughable to even consider this rebuild started 7 seasons ago.
 

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List management 101 (69?)

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