List management 101 (69?)

[R00StaR]

Sick of reading ‘2-3 years off’.

We’ve been 2-3 years for the last ten years.

Agree, but its not the current crops fault and im sure they'll do their best to rise up this year.
But we have to be realistic, we do have the youngest list.

 

[Passmore]

Yes this rebuild started two years ago, doesn't mean its the first *en attempt now does it.
You don't have the youngest list in the blardy comp if you started this rebuild 7 years ago.

It's laughable to even consider this rebuild started 7 seasons ago.

Wasn't 7 years ago the "aggressive reset"? Then no came and we hit the draft.

Flying by the seat of our pants.

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[Sphynx]

Our backline might not be the best but they have only played 3 matches with 2 being practice games. l like what l saw from Dawson, Corr and Pink on the weekend. GWS played the game well by spreading our backline players from helping each other . Size wise we were undersized and it showed but we need to remember we have our to biggest backline players out atm in Logue and Comben. Jelling will take time and if we are still like this at the bye round then we have an issue but until then we play with what we have..

We are working towards the future and we have to start somewhere.

Hopefully getting Comben, Simpkin, Greenwood and either Lmac or Bergman in this week will help in place of Goater, Sheil, and 2 others....

I think the problem a few of us have is there's still a stench of 2018 about this side. Even after multiple exorcisms of 10+ players every year.

We had games from the following last year ffs - Howe (11!!), Young (4), Tuner (12!!), Perez (5), Spicer (6), Mahoney (2), Hall (6).

Clarko is definitely not immune from falling in love with a spud battler in the same way Scott was. We had plenty in the side that have no place in most AFL sides at the minute.

Now they certainly have their benefit around the training track from a standards and experience point of view, but I'm fairly confident by the time we are a consistent finals side all of Corr, Tucker, Shiels, CCJ, Greenwood will all fit in and be viewed by most on here in the above category.

 

[Only Forwards]

Yes this rebuild started two years ago, doesn't mean its the first *en attempt now does it.
You don't have the youngest list in the blardy comp if you started this rebuild 7 years ago.

It's laughable to even consider this rebuild started 7 seasons ago.

This is like some philosophical question.

if a club stacks rebuilding years on top of each other when does the rebuild actually start?

 

[Sphynx]

Yes this rebuild started two years ago, doesn't mean its the first *en attempt now does it.
You don't have the youngest list in the blardy comp if you started this rebuild 7 years ago.

It's laughable to even consider this rebuild started 7 seasons ago.

It's laughable to suggest we would have had 4 top 6-7 picks in 5 years (including 2 in the top 4) and not consider it being in the midst of a rebuild.

Just because it's been going this long and the fact we are still the most inexperienced side in the comp doesn't change the fact we've been going at it a while....

 

[kool kangas]

I think the problem a few of us have is there's still a stench of 2018 about this side. Even after multiple exorcisms of 10+ players every year.

We had games from the following last year ffs - Howe (11!!), Young (4), Tuner (12!!), Perez (5), Spicer (6), Mahoney (2), Hall (6).

Clarko is definitely not immune from falling in love with a spud battler in the same way Scott was. We had plenty in the side that have no place in most AFL sides at the minute.

Now they certainly have their benefit around the training track from a standards and experience point of view, but I'm fairly confident by the time we are a consistent finals side all of Corr, Tucker, Shiels, CCJ, Greenwood will all fit in and be viewed by most on here in the above category.

Agree but until then 4 of those 5 are still going to be needed this season...

 

[Sphynx]

Agree but until then 4 of those 5 are still going to be needed this season...

Exactly my point!

Whilst our current situation is encouraging we still have absolutely miles still to go with these guys still in a starting best 22 in Rnd 1 of a season (which is some peoples point....).


Another depressing fact is our current situation is entirely promising because of our two most recent drafts. The JHF situation clearly didn't help, but it's as equally depressing as it is encouraging.

Powell and Phillips absolutely need breakout years to repay the investment.

If it wasn't for what looks like the absolute gold mine struck with Sheezel, Wardlaw, McKercher and Duursma we'd be absolutely ****ed right now if we failed to nail all of those picks.

 

[The acurate one]

Wasn't 7 years ago the "aggressive reset"? Then no came and we hit the draft.

Flying by the seat of our pants.

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Yes it did start 7 seasons ago and ended and we started it again.

Have a look how many of those drafted between 2017-2020 are still on the list.

I'll tell you 9 from 25 picks.

 

[desie]

Yes, if anyone wants a year to blame for our current predicament, it's 2018.

Larkey could have come along a lot faster.

We had band aid solutions to what was a bottom 4 side and an absolute sea of vanilla battler types like Anderson, Hartung, Atley, Hrovat, MacMillan, Dumont, Wright, Jacobs, Williams.

Bookened by quality B+ grade senior players like Brown, Waite, Higgins, Cunnington, Tarrant, Goldstein, Ziebell keeping our heads above water.

An absolute army of mid table mediocrity.


If we had of just swallowed our pride after 2017 and committed to the rebuild, it's likely we walk out of 2018 with Max King, Tarryn Thomas and a bunch of upgraded mid range picks and 1 year of development in Larkey.

All the bizarre in doing it in a year dubbed years out as the strongest in a decade.

You’d think that losing 11 of our last 14 in 2016 culminating in an Elimination Final embarrassment, followed by forcibly retiring four long serving players, would signal the start of a rebuild.

That’s now almost eight years ago.

 

[The acurate one]

This is like some philosophical question.

if a club stacks rebuilding years on top of each other when does the rebuild actually start?

Well you'll need to ask a shrink, I'll check online....

 

[Sphynx]

Yes it did start 7 seasons ago and ended and we started it again.

Have a look how many of those drafted between 2017-2020 are still on the list.

I'll tell you 9 from 25 picks.

Shit drafting doesn't end a rebuild, it just extends it until you get it right (see Melbourne and Carlton)

Under different management we probably walk away from that period with LDU, Max King, Tarryn Thomas, Caleb Serong, Phillips and JHF.

We were a ****ing loophole away from securing JUH in 2020 tbh, covid also completely ****ed us in a critical point we were taking our highest pick since Daniel Wells. I think Adelaide would have gone with Thilthorp regardless.

 

[Passmore]

Yes it did start 7 seasons ago and ended and we started it again.

Have a look how many of those drafted between 2017-2020 are still on the list.

I'll tell you 9 from 25 picks.

Maybe we could have some Taylor Swift type eras promotion

1. Cash Cowboys The Aggressive Reset
2. The COVID years..aka One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest
3. Rebuild...Noble's Nourishment
4. Rebuild 2..Electric Boogaloo feat.Northball.

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[Sphynx]

You’d think that losing 11 of our last 14 in 2016 culminating in an Elimination Final embarrassment, followed by forcibly retiring four long serving players, would signal the start of a rebuild.

That’s now almost eight years ago.

Amazingly, that's not even the worst thing. That was leading into 2017, where we avoided the spoon in the last round and landed LDU.

You’d think that losing 11 of our last 14 in 2016 culminating in an Elimination Final embarrassment, followed by forcibly retiring four long serving players, followed by avoiding the spoon on the final game of the following season would have triggered a rebuild, but no, they decided Jarred Polec is exactly what we needed to bounce back to premiership glory.

 

[The acurate one]

This is like some philosophical question.

if a club stacks rebuilding years on top of each other when does the rebuild actually start?

As close I could get with five minutes notice.


Al clarko is the new engine fwiw

 

[Cyber_punk]

That's what sucks about AFL in particular. Lists are so big compared to most other team sports that rebuilds can take a whole decade or more to bear fruit and it's easier to f$%^ up. It's brutal to be a supporter when that happens.

I'm not worried about the talent now as much I am of fostering the culture. Don't get me wrong we still have work to do with list management but you look at what happened at Melbourne. It was a good 15 years straight of bottom 4 finishes before they finally made the promised land, but even now, with the list they built, when they should have gone on with it and become a powerhouse, they still have a mental weakness about them that probably stems back to all those years of stinking.

 

[shinboner magic]

GWS always have top end picks but they have nailed some doozies with their later picks.
Like Buckley ,Idun,Riccardi , Daniels ,Brown (cat B??) and traded in hogan/bedford.

Our biggest issue is all those second rounders we’ve picked that are no longer around - even a couple of them would change our dynamic

 

[Shinboner roo]

I keep saying it at the time when the club decided to go down this route, the rebuild was always going to be a full 5 years at a minimum. The list at the end of 2020 was dog shit, finished equal last paying 100% of the salary cap and having the fifth most experienced list, sure the hub mightn't have helped and Shaw's issues came to the surface but that was the bottle neck moment.

 

[Uncle_Leo]

Said it about 50 times on here.

2018 and the over achieving of it has cooked us for a decade.

The recruiting coming out of that season was a complete disaster

 

[The Nostradamus]

I classify the rebuild starting in 2020 after sacking brad Scott mid 2019

as we stupidly traded our 2019 first (Flanders/serong) to ensure 2 first in 2020

2018 we won 12 games and just missed the 8 (no mans land) a brad Scott special
2019 won 10 games

I’m fine with wilphil and powell

I would’ve gone Corey durdin over lazz but neither here nor there
Spicer over mcreery lol

 

[Uncle_Leo]

I classify the rebuild starting in 2020 after sacking brad Scott mid 2019

as we stupidly traded our 2019 first (Flanders/serong) to ensure 2 first in 2020

2018 we won 12 games and just missed the 8 (no mans land) a brad Scott special
2019 won 10 games

I’m fine with wilphil and powell

I would’ve gone Corey durdin over lazz but neither here nor there
Spicer over mcreery lol

Thats the problem though

The rebuild should have started in 2017 and continued on from there

Instead it started in 2017 then stopped for 3 years.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Thats the problem though

The rebuild should have started in 2017 and continued on from there

Instead it started in 2017 then stopped for 3 years.

Correct as brad Scott was too stubborn to bottom out and wanted to scrap our way to no mans land mid table until we finally sacked him and started the rebuild properly

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

The Polec, Pittard, Tyson recruiting period is a ****ing black hole.

 

[Sphynx]

The Polec, Pittard, Tyson recruiting period is a ******* black hole.

Wasn't helped by earlier recruitment either.

We spent 3-4 drafts trying to recruit key defenders in particular.

Which we are still feeling the after effects of.

We spent almost half a decade trying to bolster for the replacement of Grima, Taz, Scooter, Spud etc. We spent just as long trying to unearth a half back (it sounds ridiculous in the modern game, as quality half backs are a dime a dozen), but we spent a lot of draft capital on McKenzie, McDonald, Atley, Wilkins etc.

After the failures of Durdin, Nielson, Watson, EVW, we also drafted McKay (who clearly was a hit) and Preuss and Larkey. We came to a point we simply couldn't afford to invest in any more KPP talent, as Wells, Boomer, Swallow, Higgins, Dal Santo all needed replacing and we were at risk of wasting the peaks of Cunnington, Ziebell, Brown etc which is exactly what happened and we've spent the last 7 years investing almost completely in the midfield, so much so we have a massive black hole in KPP's now as a result.

If we didn't land one of the best key forwards in the game for pick 6796, get Ben Brown out of the VFL before that and have Goldy to 36 years of age, god knows where we would be from a tall perspective.


The cruel thing is the draft cycle. You can't control who is best available each year, what type of players they are and you will lose on pure odds if you start picking for needs in the top 10.

We will likely add another mid this offseason if at the draft, so a decision will have to be made regarding whether we hit the trade table for talls.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

The KPD drafts are an absolute catastrophe.

Durdin, Neilson, EVW, Declan ****ing Watson, Cameron Delaney

Cameron Delaney

Age

32

Ht

195cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.0

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.2

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.4

4star

, Luke Delaney

Luke Delaney

Age

35

Ht

194cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.2

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

4.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

33.7

1star

No current season stats available

D

9.6

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.8

5star

….

Vomit

 

[fusion]

Are there any key position free agents available at the end of the season? The lack of KPD and need for a second forward to help Larkey is glaringly obvious. Yet, well probably recruit an undersized mid again.